COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

charlie14

hmmm wrote: »

Good interview with Osterholm on US TV. I think we need commentators in this country laying down the law & saying similar.

https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/video/full-osterholm-next-six-to-twelve-weeks-are-going-to-be-the-darkest-of-the-entire-pandemic-94087237514

Excellent link. He hit every nail full squarely on the head. A template for how and what needs to be the message here.

JacksonHeightsOwn

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What’s your opinion of when normal will be?

Sports stadiums, foreign travel etc?

I'll take being able to go out without booking everything first and not wearing a mask.

At the minute that would do for me.

irishgeo

Can we just use the testing centers as a vacation centre?

First place you start is the nursing homes.

JacksonHeightsOwn

irishgeo wrote: »

Can we just use the testing centers as a vacation centre?

First place you start is the nursing homes.

Stop using common sense!!

FintanMcluskey

chrisbonnie wrote: »

I'll take being able to go out without booking everything first and not wearing a mask.

At the minute that would do for me.

Fair enough. I’ve no issue with the masks or booking restaurants.

Just wondering when people think sports or foreign travel is back

Irish Stones

Forgive me if it's been asked before, but those who have got the covid already, are they immune now?

If yes, should they get the vaccine? I think they shouldn't, they're immune already. And if they're immune, why can't they resume a normal life?

If not, why should a vaccine give people immunity when the virus itself didn't?

All viral diseases give people life immunity once they survive and heal, why should this virus be different?

Thanks.

stephenjmcd

Irish Stones wrote: »

Forgive me if it's been asked before, but those who have got the covid already, are they immune now?

If yes, should they get the vaccine? I think they shouldn't, they're immune already. And if they're immune, why can't they resume a normal life?

If not, why should a vaccine give people immunity when the virus itself didn't?

All viral diseases give people life immunity once they survive and heal, why should this virus be different?

Thanks.

No they'll get the vaccine too, immunity is unproven.

We are yet to see full phase 3 data on vaccine so its pure speculation on immunity from covid via vaccine. Thats probably unlikely, it may stop people from shedding the virus and/ or protest the lungs therefore reducing the impact and allowing normal life to resume.

Like other viruses covid will still be there but combination of vaccine and treatments mean it eventually becomes essentially another virus, of which there are multiples that haven't been eradicated or provide immunity.

Not sure why you think all viruses give people immunity.

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

No they'll get the vaccine too, immunity is unproven.

It's unproven, but not impossible, so why should someone who has got the virus receive a vaccine too?
Say that you had measles or chickenpox when you were younger, would you get the vaccine all the same?
You should be rather immune to them now (there are rare case of people who got re-infected from the, but they are rare), why should you get the vaccine?

it may stop people from shedding the virus and/ or protest the lungs therefore reducing the impact and allowing normal life to resume.

If the vaccine does not give immunity either, how could we not shed the virus after the vaccination?

Not sure why you think all viruses give people immunity.

Like I said, measles, chickenpox, mumps, rubella, seasonal flu and cold, maybe others, they all give permanent immunity when you get them.
Why should this virus be different?

micks_address

Irish Stones wrote: »

It's unproven, but not impossible, so why should someone who has got the virus receive a vaccine too?
Say that you had measles or chickenpox when you were younger, would you get the vaccine all the same?
You should be rather immune to them now (there are rare case of people who got re-infected from the, but they are rare), why should you get the vaccine?



If the vaccine does not give immunity either, how could we not shed the virus after the vaccination?



Like I said, measles, chickenpox, mumps, rubella, seasonal flu and cold, maybe others, they all give permanent immunity when you get them.
Why should this virus be different?

There have been documented re infections but the numbers seem extremely low

JacksonHeightsOwn

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Fair enough. I’ve no issue with the masks or booking restaurants.

Just wondering when people think sports or foreign travel is back

I've no issue with the masks as such. But social distancing and quite frankly, being anti social goes hand in hand with them.

I just want to talk to people again without worrying that in two weeks I'll have a virus that won't bother me but might kill my mam.

stephenjmcd

Irish Stones wrote: »

It's unproven, but not impossible, so why should someone who has got the virus receive a vaccine too?
Say that you had measles or chickenpox when you were younger, would you get the vaccine all the same?
You should be rather immune to them now (there are rare case of people who got re-infected from the, but they are rare), why should you get the vaccine?



If the vaccine does not give immunity either, how could we not shed the virus after the vaccination?



Like I said, measles, chickenpox, mumps, rubella, seasonal flu and cold, maybe others, they all give permanent immunity when you get them.
Why should this virus be different?

I was going to answer this fully until you said you get immunity from seasonal flu and a cold once you get them. Thats absolutely not the case. You've never had more than 1 cold in your life ?

Irish Stones

micks_address wrote: »

There have been documented re infections but the numbers seem extremely low

Precisely.
So far, if I'm not wrong, fewer than 10 cases of re-infection from this virus have been reported.
Even if they were 1,000 cases, they would be 1 every 40,000, that I consider close to null.

Irish Stones

Irish Stones wrote: »

Forgive me if it's been asked before, but those who have got the covid already, are they immune now?

If yes, should they get the vaccine? I think they shouldn't, they're immune already. And if they're immune, why can't they resume a normal life?

If not, why should a vaccine give people immunity when the virus itself didn't?

All viral diseases give people life immunity once they survive and heal, why should this virus be different?

Thanks.

Immunity is complicated. Its not always possible to give a simple yes/no answer. Some viruses give almost full immunity long term. Some provide only partial protection. We don't know for sure yet where COVID falls on that spectrum.

Vaccines generally provide a stronger immune response so people who got the virus before should receive one. As for them resuming a normal life. A system where people are treated differently depending on whether they had the virus would fall apart very quickly. Not to mention it potentially creates incentive to become infected. We definitely don't want that.

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

I was going to answer this fully until you said you get immunity from seasonal flu and a cold once you get them. Thats absolutely not the case.

The seasonal flu gives you immunity. Every year there's a new strain of the virus, that's why you might get it again next year.
Same with the cold, there are dozens of viruses that you give you the cold, this is the reason why you can have it often.


Now, if you want, you might answer my post fully.

Irish Stones

Hardyn wrote: »

A system where people are treated differently depending on whether they had the virus would fall apart very quickly. Not to mention it potentially creates incentive to become infected. We definitely don't want that.

This is what I think.
I think that world authorities are withholding some bits of info about this virus, like the permanent immunity, in order not to create two classes of people, those who have got the virus and now are immune and can resume a fully normal life, and those who haven't got the virus and have to follow restrictions.

This would generate competitions, envy, and a rush to get the virus to be free to get back to normal.

This is why they are not saying that the infection gives you immunity.

They will release all people from this restricted life only after everybody has got the vaccine shot.

Please, note that I'm not a negationist, because I had the virus myself, and I know it's real.
What I don't like it's the way the governments are handling the emergency and how they are communicating with their people.

Irish Stones

stephenjmcd wrote: »

You've never had more than 1 cold in your life ?

I've seen you edited your post.

Yes, I had, but because each cold is given you by a different rhinovirus. It's a large family, you can get a different member of the family each time, the previous one has given you the immunity.

stephenjmcd

Irish Stones wrote: »

I've seen you edited your post.

Yes, I had, but because each cold is given you by a different rhinovirus. It's a large family, you can get a different member of the family each time, the previous one has given you the immunity.

FYI post was edited before your reply.

Anyway back to topic I won't be bothering taking the time to compose a full reply, as immunity from covid is still a large unknown (it would be irresponsible to post saying oh you've had covid your immune dont get a vaccine) & most of your points have previously been addressed by other posters while some are just inaccurate, such as the idea that information is being held back on immunity, what your suggesting is herd immunity.

People who have had covid should absolutely be included in any vaccine rollout, vaccines provide a more robust response from the immune system, preliminary data showing potentially 3 times the response compared to being infected.

Hmmzis

Irish Stones wrote: »

The seasonal flu gives you immunity. Every year there's a new strain of the virus, that's why you might get it again next year.
Same with the cold, there are dozens of viruses that you give you the cold, this is the reason why you can have it often.


Now, if you want, you might answer my post fully.

You are correct with the flu, each serotype provides life long protection once you clear it and as you mentioned it's the mutation rate of it that's problematic.

With some other viruses, including human coronaviruses and RSV, it's not quite like that. A couple of pages back I mentioned one of the tricks they use to get past antibodies ('canyoning hypotheses'). The other tactics include messing around with the signaling pathways that are needed to induce a lasting humoral immune response or causing it to be directed off target.
This can make it possible for the same isolate to infect you multiple times once the antibody levels drop off below what's called the 'correlate of protection' (btw. this can happen with measles and chickenpox as well, it's just rather rare)

Vaccines can get around those issues by presenting as much of the neutralizing sites to the immune system as it's safely possible and leaving out all the non-structural bits that would be messing with the signaling pathways or causing the response to go off target. The HPV vaccine (VLP type) would be the best example here.

Paul Tergat

Thanks to everyone who posts updates and some really useful information in this thread. Really does make for some positive reading on a Monday morning where we are likely to have some more bad news from the Government tonight. We can really see some light at the end of the tunnel.

stephenjmcd

Paul Tergat wrote: »

Thanks to everyone who posts updates and some really useful information in this thread. Really does make for some positive reading on a Monday morning where we are likely to have some more bad news from the Government tonight. We can really see some light at the end of the tunnel.

The UK were very bullish over the weekend about vaccine rollout and progress, something we've not really seen from them before. Van-Tam and Sir Jeremy Farrar providing very optimistic notes.

Pfizer also seem very confident of approval before Christmas.

Jeremy Farrar had previously been quite conservative in his estimates with regards to a vaccine so theres been quite a few big statements over the weekend.

A big month ahead with phase 3 data to come.

Irish Stones

Paul Tergat wrote: »

We can really see some light at the end of the tunnel.

Before saying we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, we should make it sure that that light isn't an oncoming train.

Paul Tergat

Irish Stones wrote: »

Before saying we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, we should make it sure that that light isn't an oncoming train.

errrr ok.... the train being?

Irish Stones

Paul Tergat wrote: »

errrr ok.... the train being?

Whatever is going to dash our hopes, like a failing vaccine, a treatment that isn't coming yet, a surge in cases and the inability of the authorities to deal with it, and so on

funnydoggy

Irish Stones wrote: »

Before saying we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, we should make it sure that that light isn't an oncoming train.

A train... seriously?

Paul Tergat

Irish Stones wrote: »

Whatever is going to dash our hopes, like a failing vaccine, a treatment that isn't coming yet, a surge in cases and the inability of the authorities to deal with it, and so on

Turn that frown upside down man. At a time when there is so much negativity around, seeing some really good progress on vaccines can only be a good thing.

Le Bruise

Irish Stones wrote: »

Before saying we're seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, we should make it sure that that light isn't an oncoming train.

Aren't you a ray of sunshine!:)

Morries Wigs

the next 2 weeks are crucial here

utyh2ikcq9z76b

Paul Tergat wrote: »

errrr ok.... the train being?

The vaccine has unintended consequences and creates a Covid super virus which goes on the decimate 65% of humanity.

2020 strikes again they will say

funnydoggy

Kaydence Acidic Marsupial wrote: »

The vaccine has unintended consequences and creates a Covid super virus which goes on the decimate 65% of humanity.

2020 strikes again they will say

Would make for a great popcorn movie

bennyineire

Morries Wigs wrote: »

the next 2 weeks are crucial here

Not really though is it