NFL Offseason 2020

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

They would have got a no.1 in the draft for a lot less than that. They could have got Jeudy for less than that. Now if you want to call that a gamble or less likely to work out then I think you need to read up on Alabama's no.1 WR's. Last three Alabama no.1's to come out of college are Julio Jones 959 yards 8tds in rookie season, Amari Cooper 1070 yards 6tds and Calvin Ridley 821 yards(as no.2) 10 tds.

Virtually every franchise in the league has been burned at one point or another with a ‘can’t miss’ prospect in the draft. Jeudy and Lamb will likely be gone by 22 and you might be paying a heavy price to move up, teams will likely want their second round pick and probably a 2021 mid rounder, that is much more valuable than the 4-6 ones they gave up for Diggs.

I don’t totally disagree with you btw, but I just don’t think it’s nearly as bad a trade as you are making out. They have been very smart building through the draft and now that they have a lot of things in place they are going for it with a guy they think can put them in position to win the Division and make a playoff run now. The time to judge the trade is in a couple of years time or after this season at the very earliest

BonnieSituation

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

How am I overrating him? I never said Diggs was a top 10 receiver, he probably is top 20 though, and he has shown himself to be very durable which is an underrated quality. His production over the years has been very good.

Bills have done an excellent job of building up their roster through the draft and they have loads of cap space. Diggs will probably give them 1000 yards and 6-8 TD’s. I would not bet on any rookie giving them that. They are looking for the missing piece to get them over the line in the division with the Pats now seemingly weakened, so taking a relatively safe bet on a proven player that they can easily afford is not the worst move. There are no guarantees in the draft no matter how much the talking heads big up certain prospects.

Not sure I’d have done that trade either btw, but it’s not a terrible trade imo

This^^^^ right here.

eagle eye

BonnieSituation wrote:

This^^^^ right here.

Yeah, a no.1 receiver is what they need, they still don't have one and are short a first rounder, fifth and sixth rounders and a fourth next year.

BonnieSituation

You have a valid point. There's no point in labouring it, but everyone should be able to see WHY they did it.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah, a no.1 receiver is what they need, they still don't have one and are short a first rounder, fifth and sixth rounders and a fourth next year.

Diggs put up 1000 + yards in recent seasons despite being double teamed on passing downs, what would he need to do to be considered a WR1?

He is not Hopkins, Jones, Thomas or AB, but none of those guys have superbowl rings, you don’t need an elite top 5 receiver like that to win in the league, give me a stable of guys that can all give you 1000 yards a piece in a given season over one of the above. Just my opinion

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

He is not Hopkins, Jones, Thomas or AB, but none of those guys have superbowl rings, you don’t need an elite top 5 receiver like that to win in the league, give me a stable of guys that can all give you 1000 yards a piece in a given season over one of the above. Just my opinion

Cooks cost a second rounder and is contracted through 2023. In his six seasons in the NFL he has four 1k+ yardage seasons through three different QB's.
Do you call that a steel? I don't, I think it's about right and I certainly wouldn't rate Diggs higher than him.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

Cooks cost a second rounder and is contracted through 2023. In his six seasons in the NFL he has four 1k+ yardage seasons through three different QB's.
Do you call that a steel? I don't, I think it's about right and I certainly wouldn't rate Diggs higher than him.

Cooks has had so many concussions at this point I wouldn’t touch him. They are probably about the same level as players in the tier below the very top guys if everything else is equal but it’s not, Cooks health is a major red flag and he took a big step back last season as a result. Cooks was traded twice in the past for a first round pick btw.

Anyway no point debating in much further. Let’s see how it plays out this season. AFC East will be interesting hopefully.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

Anyway no point debating in much further. Let’s see how it plays out this season. AFC East will be interesting hopefully.

Well not sure you'll see much change. I've been a big fan of Jarrett Stidham since he arrived in New England. I fancy he has what it takes to be a really good QB, I think he learned a lot from Brady.. You never know for sure until they do get the start but everything I've seen leads me to believe we are in good hands. We just need to improve the receiving corps a little and get a tight end and our offense should be good enough to continue dominating the AFC East.

mistermatthew

Cooks career could be over with all the concussions. Massive punt by anyone signing him. Great player but could be finished. Diggs has a lot of upside. And could conceivably have a breakout year. Although with allen at qb that may be difficult!

eagle eye wrote: »

Cooks cost a second rounder and is contracted through 2023. In his six seasons in the NFL he has four 1k+ yardage seasons through three different QB's.
Do you call that a steel? I don't, I think it's about right and I certainly wouldn't rate Diggs higher than him.

The_Honeybadger

eagle eye wrote: »

Well not sure you'll see much change. I've been a big fan of Jarrett Stidham since he arrived in New England. I fancy he has what it takes to be a really good QB, I think he learned a lot from Brady.. You never know for sure until they do get the start but everything I've seen leads me to believe we are in good hands. We just need to improve the receiving corps a little and get a tight end and our offense should be good enough to continue dominating the AFC East.

Yes the test for a young guy like that is after several starts when teams have more tape on him. The pre season is fairly meaningless in evaluating players. He is bound to make mistakes too, even if he is as good as you hope. Are you sure he will be the starter? I would not be surprised to see Belichick move for a short term veteran if the price is right.

If I was a betting man I’d back the Bills for the AFC East tbh, they have been building and look solid, but it would not surprise me in the least to see NE win the division again either. They still have the best pass defence around. They need a very good draft if that is to happen though.

el Fenomeno

Can't believe Brandin Cooks is only 26.

eagle eye

The_Honeybadger wrote:

Yes the test for a young guy like that is after several starts when teams have more tape on him. The pre season is fairly meaningless in evaluating players. He is bound to make mistakes too, even if he is as good as you hope. Are you sure he will be the starter? I would not be surprised to see Belichick move for a short term veteran if the price is right.

I don't see Belichick moving for a veteran. It's impossible to predict what he'll do at the best of times but he signed Hoyer which looks like a veteran backup who knows the system move so I have to believe that he is going with Stidham. I think Brady would still be there if he wasn't confident of Stidham working out.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Yes the test for a young guy like that is after several starts when teams have more tape on him. The pre season is fairly meaningless in evaluating players. He is bound to make mistakes too, even if he is as good as you hope. Are you sure he will be the starter? I would not be surprised to see Belichick move for a short term veteran if the price is right.

Agreed. Stidham has completed 2 passes (4 attempts) for 14yards, 0 TDs, and 1 INT (a pick 6) in his NFL career. He has a long way to go to prove he's a backup let alone actually being a starter.

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

If I was a betting man I’d back the Bills for the AFC East tbh, they have been building and look solid

I'm not a fan of Josh Allen, but they would be my favs at the moment. But now comes that pressure, and can they manage it. Plus, it's a far more difficult schedule this year. The Eagles won the NFC East with 9 wins. 9 or 10 wins could earn the AFC East.

Foxtrol

eagle eye wrote: »

They would have got a no.1 in the draft for a lot less than that. They could have got Jeudy for less than that. Now if you want to call that a gamble or less likely to work out then I think you need to read up on Alabama's no.1 WR's. Last three Alabama no.1's to come out of college are Julio Jones 959 yards 8tds in rookie season, Amari Cooper 1070 yards 6tds and Calvin Ridley 821 yards(as no.2) 10 tds.

I'm not sure where you're getting any of your trade values to move around in the first from, it definitely is not recent history.

Jeudy, Lamb & Ruggs are all expected to be gone by around the 13th pick in the draft, with Jeudy going in many mocks before it gets to double digits, and Buffalo's pick was 22.

Two recent examples of that kind of move up are the Texans in 2017, when they went from pick 25 to 12 and it cost them both their 2017 1st round pick and their 2018 1st round pick, and the Saints in 2018, when they went from pick 27 to 14 and it cost them their 2018 1st round pick, 2018 5th round pick, and their 2019 1st round pick.

You seem to mistakenly believe a team can jump halfway up the board in the first at the same cost as teams move up in day 3. The Bills couldn't move up to a spot to get Jeudy at even the price they paid for Diggs, any talk of doing so for 'a lot less' is absolute nonsense.

jack presley

el Fenomeno wrote: »

Can't believe Brandin Cooks is only 26.

and has already been traded 3 times!

el Fenomeno

jack presley wrote: »

and has already been traded 3 times!

Have to wonder if maybe he's a bit of a locker room headache. He's performed fairly well (excluding last year) putting up 1,000 yard seasons for each of the team's he's played for.

Either that or he falls into the "good but not good enough" category.

eagle eye

el Fenomeno wrote:

Have to wonder if maybe he's a bit of a locker room headache. He's performed fairly well (excluding last year) putting up 1,000 yard seasons for each of the team's he's played for.
Either that or he falls into the "good but not good enough" category.

I wonder if it's the case that he is not happy being no.2. Thomas came through as the clear no.1 in New Orleans. He was behind Gronk in New England and Edelman was coming back the next season and he has fallen behind Kupp in LA.
You don't get the big contracts as a no.
2 on a team.

The_Honeybadger

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Agreed. Stidham has completed 2 passes (4 attempts) for 14yards, 0 TDs, and 1 INT (a pick 6) in his NFL career. He has a long way to go to prove he's a backup let alone actually being a starter.

I'm not a fan of Josh Allen, but they would be my favs at the moment. But now comes that pressure, and can they manage it. Plus, it's a far more difficult schedule this year. The Eagles won the NFC East with 9 wins. 9 or 10 wins could earn the AFC East.

Belichick must like him so there is cause for optimism but that’s about it, he has it all to prove like you say. As a Steelers fan I can attest to the folly of placing too much stock in pre season, Mason Rudolph looked great last preseason against backups where nobody was blitzing him or doing any sort of game prep to stop him and he won the backup job behind Ben on the back of it. When he had to play in the regular season his limitations and inexperience were ruthlessly exposed.

I don’t know if the pressure will get to the Bills, they have the experience of the WC last season and I think they should improve next year, depending on injuries etc. It’s the most interesting that Division has been in a while anyway that’s for sure.

j8wk2feszrnpao

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

Belichick must like him so there is cause for optimism but that’s about it, he has it all to prove like you say.

Bill would still have taken Brady back though; in the end it was Brady who left.
Until we see Stidham for 6+ games at least, it's not possible to say how he's gonna do. But he's got a lot to prove.

The_Honeybadger wrote: »

I don’t know if the pressure will get to the Bills, they have the experience of the WC last season and I think they should improve next year, depending on injuries etc. It’s the most interesting that Division has been in a while anyway that’s for sure.

They do need to improve. 10:6 last year with what was an easy schedule. If they repeat 10:6, that would be an improvement, and probably enough to win the division. Division is open, but might be the least talented at the QB position.

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1249792437075226624

gstack166

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NFL/status/1249792437075226624

Teams will never learn.

It’s my favourite position in the game, 2 of my all time favourite players are RB’s but they’re just not worth the return on them contracts.

Might be in the minority here but I’m in favour of rookie contracted RB’s in my team always unless there’s one on free agency you can get for the year when you think you’re close to winning a super bowl.

I’d be more inclined to trade McCaffrey at the moment if I was the Panthers, appreciate not ever one wouldn’t agree with me.

phatkev

gstack166 wrote: »

Teams will never learn.

It’s my favourite position in the game, 2 of my all time favourite players are RB’s but they’re just not worth the return on them contracts.

Might be in the minority here but I’m in favour of rookie contracted RB’s in my team always unless there’s one on free agency you can get for the year when you think you’re close to winning a super bowl.

I’d be more inclined to trade McCaffrey at the moment if I was the Panthers, appreciate not ever one wouldn’t agree with me.

Id be normally of this opinion along with not drafting them in the first round. But McCaffrey is a special talent, there isn't another player in the league or in the draft thats going to get you over 1000 yards in both the run and passing game and thats with Kyle Allen at QB for the majority of the season. He doesnt have any major injuries heading into the new contract either which helps

eagle eye

phatkev wrote:

Id be normally of this opinion along with not drafting them in the first round. But McCaffrey is a special talent, there isn't another player in the league or in the draft thats going to get you over 1000 yards in both the run and passing game and thats with Kyle Allen at QB for the majority of the season. He doesnt have any major injuries heading into the new contract either which helps

McCaffrey is on a different level. He had almost 2k yards from scrimmage in 2018 and was well over it last season. He is well worth the money.

Itssoeasy

I think it's premature for the other three teams in the AFC east to be making room for the division banner just yet. The patriots have lost a huge part of their team but as Brady rightly said in his Howard stern interviews, the whole argument over whether he or belichick was a bigger part of the patriots success is a stupid one. Both contributed to the success as it's been in all great QB/HC tandems over the years.

Also, great move by the panthers as others have said McCaffrey is a special player and a player the panthers are lucky to have.

The_Honeybadger

Mcaffery is absolutely dynamite but can people really see him maintaining 2019 production long term the way he is flogged in that offence? We have seen time and again how these huge running back contracts can turn sour very quickly when the knocks start to add up no matter how good the player is. Barkley and Kamara are up next so it will be interesting to see what their teams do there.

jack presley

I'd say teams at this stage know that the performances will tail off sooner rather than later. Could they be paying him the value of a 4 year contract knowing that he'll only be a superstar for 2 of them and are happy enough to live with that?

gstack166

jack presley wrote: »

I'd say teams at this stage know that the performances will tail off sooner rather than later. Could they be paying him the value of a 4 year contract knowing that he'll only be a superstar for 2 of them and are happy enough to live with that?

That would sit with me fine if I was a fan of the Panthers & if we were close to challenging but they’re miles off! The actual talk amongst fans and media is that they wouldn’t be surprised to see a tank year to go for Trevor Lawrence in the draft next year!

Just to be clear I wasn’t knocking CMC in my first post either, I do think he’s worth that money and he’s the best RB in the NFL but that contract is not worth it to Carolina in the short or long term in my opinion.

The_Honeybadger

jack presley wrote: »

I'd say teams at this stage know that the performances will tail off sooner rather than later. Could they be paying him the value of a 4 year contract knowing that he'll only be a superstar for 2 of them and are happy enough to live with that?

If that is their strategy then why pay him now when he is under control for another two seasons and a third with the tag if they had wanted. Of course he would have likely held out at some stage so maybe they figured they’d just get the deal done now. Fair play to them for doing right by the player, remains to be seen if it is good business for the team.

gstack166

https://twitter.com/melkiperespn/status/1242466810601058304?s=21

Mel skiper now has Tua going to the Chargers in his latest mock draft.

eagle eye

Tua has talent but he's had a couple of injuries and not looked as good after coming back from them.
I'm not sold on him at all now. I really like the lad though, hope he makes it.