The Last of Us - HBO *Spoilers* See warning in post #1

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120328431#Comment_120328431

You have just repeated that they couldn't do it, but not said why.

I'm not saying they should be setting up data centres after 20 years, but humanity has already walked the path from the dark ages to the current civilisation once before, and the show has given no reason why humanity would not follow those same steps again.

The infected might be a problem, but as shown they are not an insurmountable problem, they are just mindless humans at the end of the day and humans with intelligence and guns should easily be winning that battle.

As for the "humans are the real enemy" concept, that has been the case since the dawn of time. It didn't stop us before, wouldn't stop us now.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330285#Comment_120330285

Haha, I thought the exact same 😁

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330342#Comment_120330342

As shown by how separated human settlements are and how empty even cities like Kansas are, the population of America has clearly been decimated. "Humanity" is barely surviving enough to have the resources and skillsets just to maintain the bare minimum standards of maintenance and rationing in the QZs, not to mention how basic some functions such as communication has returned to with radio towers etc.

There seems to be very limited, if any, co-ordination between different FEDRA groups at this stage. There doesn't seem to be any form of centralised government or concerted effort to be able to restore things like manufacturing. Not to mention international trade would be gone which would affect many types of electrical component manufacture/supply or other items. Then you have the loss of knowledge with no internet and the many deaths of people with the knowledge or experience, as well as a lack of people to teach the next generation.

Yes, humanity could rebuild. But you're going from a world where everything is as we knew it in 2003, to a complete devastation of the entire world which would have taken maybe 5 years to acclimatise to the way things changed. 15 years may seem like a long time but it's not enough for humanity to start thriving again, especially without a concerted group effort and the willingness to take those risks.

As we saw in Episode 2 when Joel, Ellie and Tess made it to the City Hall to meet up with the Fireflies, one of the Fireflies got infected, and even with their guns, intelligence and experience, they all ended up dead. It's also very likely that everyone in Kathleen's group in Kansas were killed by the infected. Mindless humans versus intelligent humans with guns.... that's not always a straightforward battle.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330342#Comment_120330342

To go back to my analogy from the TV show Survivors.

Explain how to build a chair ? How many of us could do it and how much time and effort would it take.

Zero-Cool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330285#Comment_120330285

My head is drawing a blank on what she looked like. Can you put who she looked like in spoilers?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330720#Comment_120330720

Spoiler Warning

Mel, the pregnant woman in Abby's group

silverharp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330342#Comment_120330342

I assumed it would be self explanatory but you cant just manufacture a microchip for example , it takes skills, processes and materials from around the globe, no one isolated group can achieve this critical mass. I'd assume they can get existing hydro going, they can extract some oil and possibly refine it and trade it around the US but then the existing transport, trucks, cars and machinery all have computer controls so they would fall into disrepair, youd be back trying to figure out how a Model T Ford works and if one could be made from scratch

Given what the show has shown us, the pop is very low, so unless there is one centre they havnt shown us yet that is much bigger, on the west coast for example and is trading with Asia equivalents then I'd argue its very difficult to jump start existing technology or re-learn how to make it

Evade

Pre 2003 cars don't have nearly as many electronics as the do now. There's a decent amount of Humvees and military trucks around too, so either it's not really an issue or the writers haven't thought it through. There's bit of 2010s+ tactical gear in the series too but that could be a series production issue.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330669#Comment_120330669

In fairness, I think most people would be able to fashion some sort of rudimentary stool to sit on.

However, the technicalities of something like a pressure cooker would certainly be beyond most average Joes. Into the bargain, the tools required to actually manufacture one successfully would likely be in short order.

Also, and this is probably the most salient point, people would be more focused on the basics of survival rather than reigniting technological advances. Advances, BTW, which were achieved in times of relative luxury and by people who's day to day living requirements with regards to gathering basics, like food, were a very distant secondary concern.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331073#Comment_120331073

Ya I suppose it works better in the show where the guy is holding a fancy stool.

The point is you have to first build a saw goode enough to chop down a tree, then turn the tree into wood, build nails, build a hammer and then put it together.

But ya like you point out it's a metaphor for other harder items.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330669#Comment_120330669

Walk over to a tree stump and sit down. Congratulations, you now have a chair.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330568#Comment_120330568

The QZ's are the biggest example of the point I was making, they make no sense and are only an affectation of the story.

Jackson community, Bill and Frank, the native American couple, again and again the show demonstrates that outside of the cities it is more than possible to lead a comfortable life.

Yet for 20 years people are sitting in squalor among destroyed buildings and surrounded by all the infected they are so scared off?

What really would happen is that those QZ's would never have been established in the middle of bombed out cities to begin with, the government would have identified a mid sized town for the purpose. Far more logical and manageable, for the same reasons that Stephen King used Boulder Colorado as the location for his survival colony in "The Stand" back in 1978.

And if they did begin in a bombed out city like Boston for some reason, it would not be long at all before a decision would be made to leave and push through to a more sensible location, like an island or a town on a beachhead that they can easily defend. Because again, why on earth would you waste resources by sitting in the middle of a bombed out city filled with infected?

Flaneur OBrien

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331131#Comment_120331131

Cool. Bring it into the house.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331130#Comment_120331130

You don't need nails

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331228#Comment_120331228

I tried making a tree stump once. Fek me it was hard work.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331217#Comment_120331217

There could be people living happy on islands the show never said there wasn't. Maybe the island people won't let FEDRA in.

FEDRA are essentially North Korea. Ya it's great to say it's better outside when your outside but how are you going to know that when you are locked inside.

You are right it's better outside which is why 90% of the people we met are out there. We have seen 1 working QZ heard of or seen I think 3 that collapsed and don't know if all your ideas are not happening outside the viewpoint of our heros.

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331228#Comment_120331228

Why would I bring it into the house, do you really think I couldn't find a chair inside as well?

The whole chair thing is a nice soundbite for a reality show but thats all it is. The reason the modern IT programmer can't build a chair is not because he/she is unable to, but because he/she doesn't have to.

People talking about Model T Fords and the myth that all advancement will be lost in such a disaster scenario, it just isn't true. Yes humanity would regress for a period, but then it will come right back again because all those centuries worth of technological advancement are not going to be unlearned.

Hell, even the show demonstrates that when it shows that everybody appears to have electricity. You think they have electricity but can't build chairs? (Thats a joke by the way)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331334#Comment_120331334

Again the chair is a metaphor.

Stuff would not be unlearned but the people and time would not be available. Great you still have a Model-T but who is working the oil well or making the oil and lube needed to run the oil well or the spare parts for the well or sailing and driving from well to refinery to car. Who is sourcing the rubber, who is making the tyres. Who is protecting all these people.

It will all come back but not in the 20 years we have seen in the show.

The electricity thing is a plot hole that is just sadly required as a limitation of TV. I suppose they could also go with the crazy bright and consistent candles of period dramas.

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs does a lot of the heavy lifting for you, but sure you know that.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331442#Comment_120331442

...who is working the oil well or making the oil and lube needed to run the oil well or the spare parts for the well or sailing and driving from well to refinery to car. Who is sourcing the rubber, who is making the tyres. Who is protecting all these people.

At least FEDRA have to be doing all that and if they can others can. FEDRA have been shown to have a decent number of vehicles so they have to be sourcing all those things somewhere because no vehicle lasts for 20 years with no maintenance.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331801#Comment_120331801

There are still some and you would imagine FEDRA have hoarded loads more for parts but that's hoarding which will increase the scarcity.

We were talking about building new stuff.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331823#Comment_120331823

Stabilised fuel is only good for a year or two, lubricants about five years, and rubber will be very perished after a decade even without being used so they'll definitely need those three. Somebody, somewhere, has to be operating an oil well and refinery at the very least.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331975#Comment_120331975

They have addressed the fuel thing when Joel mentioned how little mileage you get on it now. Don't know how scientific that is though.

Evade

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332212#Comment_120332212

It's not accurate at all.

ULMarc

Lads, stop sucking all the fun out of it.

For me this has been a mediocre series.

The actor who plays Ellie is bad. Very limited range. Has a smirky look most of the time. In the latest episode she looked very well-fed for someone in her supposed predicament (winter, desperate for food, dragging Joel around etc). At least David and his group looked the part.

The pacing is off compared to the game. They have wasted time on boring stuff and consequently not had enough time to develop other stuff properly. The game is only 14 hrs and a lot of the time is spent checking cupboards so it should have been possible to fit it all into 9 or 10 episodes but they fecked it up badly. Even Joel and Ellies relationship - how it changes over time etc - seems flimsily conveyed compared to the game.

They were going on about it being the most expensive HBO show ever. More expensive than a GoT season. I'd love to know where the money went because there's hardly any zombies for a zombie show. Most episodes are two or three people talking in a dusty room with peeling wallpaper.

Greyfox

Another brilliant episode, id give the series a solid 9/10 overall. David was extra creepy and another very good performance from Bella. I'm a little concerned about next week as they'll have to cram a lot into the series 1 finale

purifol0

Gotta say I really like the show, but its hard to love (apart from episode 3!). Some episodes consist of 20 odd minutes of filler, I usually watch them at 1.2x speed with VLC until the good parts roll round. I haven't played the game, but might pick it up when it launches on PC. I'm nearly certain Joel has been watered down on the show, apart from the first episode and random acts of violence he's positively neutered, and acts more like a background character to the all important Ellie, who frankly is a bit of a know it all twerp. I understand she has also been changed considerably from the game, and probably not for the better. Bit too girl boss for my liking and boy Jesus do grown men have a habit of getting completely destroyed by her in hand to hand combat. Although for everyone knocking the actress - its the director and the writers you should be critiquing, she's not a big name star that can do her own thing, she reads the script and takes direction.

Special FX are very good, as in you wont even notice half of them since the compositing in the backgrounds is just so seamless, it doesn't look cheap but it also rarely feels big budget (first episode excepted). Writing is sparse, Joel could certainly do with a few more lines. Bad Guy Characters barely arrive and next thing they're dead usually by mistakes that can only be caused by writers willingly have them do stupid things that are completely out of character e.g everyone left alive has been forced to become a hardy survivor until Ellie turns up then they all get reckless and risky and die in a hurry because when the episode ends so must the villain of the week.

I don't watch much TV as my standards are just too high for most of the absolute dross out there but for all my criticism I'll definitely finish this series, and that's a real compliment to it.

Cartman78

Just caught up with the last couple of episodes.

To be honest, this has dropped down my priority list of late and Episodes 7 and 8 didn't do anything to change that.

I can see what they were trying to do in 7 but I just thought it was really ponderous....did we really need to spend all that time in the mall? And watch them play Mortal Kombat?

Just the one zombie who we saw at the start and it was fairly obvious he was going to wake up and kill the other girl.

(Maybe I'm missing some reference from the TLOU game but it was a real drag for me as part of a TV show)

And 8 was like a copy and paste of a bad TWD episode.

They could easily have told the same stories in half the time imho.

Gusser09

Haven't watched episode 9 yet but disappointed overall with the way it's gone. Very much another Walking Dead or similar to that.