The Last of Us - HBO *Spoilers* See warning in post #1

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181375#Comment_120181375

Sigh.

Adding nothing to plot ,except that it impacts Joel and also they have a vehicle now.

Seriously, why do people always require a definitive action point or progression and otherwise it's a waste of time and ignore character development, world setting or a nice human story that in my opinion was beautifully told.

My ONLY quibble.

Joel and Tess could have gotten a battery from Bill (in trade obviously). Would have to have been easier than what they tried in the QZ

May not have known he had a truck but I imagine they would have asked a guy with running power 20 years later.

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181521#Comment_120181521

joel and Tess met frank and bill four year before they needed the battery

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181494#Comment_120181494

Even taking the Bill & Frank parts out of the episode, we got decent sections with Joel & Ellie and how their relationship is progressing, as well as more insights into their character. Joel wanting to shield Ellie from seeing the pit where people were killed but Ellie belting on wanting to see it. Ellie with the infected in the shop basement. Ellie in the shop and when she finds the gun in Bill's house showing her defiance in not always following Joel's orders and keeping things from him. The impact Bill's letter and death (as well as the cumulative impact of Tess' death) has on Joel. The slight smirk from Joel in the car when they're talking about the song (which Ellie notices and is the first sign of him starting to warm to her). As well as that we got background info on FEDRA which gives context to why groups like the Fireflies oppose them.

This is the third episode of nine, and the first two episodes have had some big/tense action sequences, lots of danger, worldbuilding etc. This episode was a chance to relax the tone a bit and set things up for the next few episodes.

walkonby

Maybe they did ask him for a battery and he wouldn’t part with it (or even disclose he had one.)

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181375#Comment_120181375

It was to further reinforce to Joel the idea that you need to have something worth living for. Also it's shows through Bill the kinda person Joel is. The 2 of them alone at the table Joel understood Bills trust no one attitude.

It did drag a little though.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181567#Comment_120181567

Is it not 10-13 years earlier? I might be messing up the timeline a little bit, but their wine dinner took place at least 10 years before the 'contemporary' events of the show. Not that it makes a major difference, of course - there were obviously a lot more subsequent interactions we don't see. I did think the old age make-up was a little overdone in that final stretch, though :P

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181567#Comment_120181567

Did they pass by on the way to the QZ?

They're in radio contact though, no?

I got the impression that they'd met, physically, more than once. Could be mistaken

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181573#Comment_120181573

That's what I'm thinking, when Joel opened the bonnet of the truck he was downbeat with no battery.

Would just have made sense, to me, to have had some conversation about Tess/Joel say "Would Bill have one?" and "He's too far out" or something

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181600#Comment_120181600

actually i think youre right, it was 2 three year gaps, and then a 10 year gap... so that means frank and bill were dead for 4 years?

and they met joel and tess in 2009, wheres "contemporary" is 2023

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181609#Comment_120181609

I'm sure they met several times over the years to trade items etc. But I think the radio contact was through code only, not conversations (I doubt Bill would have spoken over the radio even before the outbreak).

As for why they didn't trade with Bill for the battery, I assume it was more convenience than anything. To get to Bill's they would have had to go through the infected area outside the QZ that they did in Episode 2, and then possibly even would have had to come back through it (depending on where the car they'd found was). I doubt it's a route they wanted to use too often, and even in Episode 2 they realise certain paths through the hotel were now closed off due to floors collapsing etc. But they had to go that route with Ellie because the guard caught them which forced them to run, and the building they were trying to get to was on the other side of that area. Whereas trying to trade with Robert for the battery within the QZ was probably safer on balance provided they didn't really trust Robert to begin with.

I'm sure if Joel/Tess had gotten the battery from Robert (which would mean they never met Marlene/Ellie), they likely would have made their way over to Bill & Frank's for supplies on their way, but could have avoided the infected area.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181643#Comment_120181643

No AFAIK they're dead a short time (probably days or weeks, based on the food rotting) when Joel and Ellie show up. The last ten-year time jump is to 2023 :)

Closer again. The food wasn't fully decayed, flowers not dead yet, small dust covering, and no overgrowth means weeks (maybe months).

Remember Bill's radio started playing 80s songs on a deadman timer. Same as what we got in episode 1.

They died during episode 1

sydthebeat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181673#Comment_120181673

ah yes, wasnt the letter dated august 2023?

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181643#Comment_120181643

No the last scene of Bill & Frank is August 2023, so I think it's a few weeks before Joel & Ellie find them. Joel even remarks in Bill's bunker that Bill's radio was playing music because it was set to autoplay if he didn't input a code every few weeks, as a warning to Joel/Tess that something had happened. That's why Joel's radio started playing 80's music (to signal danger) at the end of Episode 1.

I believe Bill & Frank meet in 2006 (three years after the outbreak), then it jumps to 2010 (Bill & Frank meeting Joel & Tess), then 2013 (the raiders attacking the camp), then ten years to 2023.

MarkR

Ellie didn't find a porno mag. Utterly unwatchable. :-D

I loved the game. They showed a 15 / 20 year relationship over an hour, and it didn't feel rushed. Knew Bill was going to join with Frank, couldn't see the character going to back to who he was.

Bill's letter was a little on the nose about protecting who you love, but what the hell.

BKtje

How long was the timer for the music? That's more or less how long they were dead. 80s's music plays if there was an emergency and that music started playing on the radio moments after they left the QZ. This gives a good indication that it wasn't all that long.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181718#Comment_120181718

I just checked the scene. Joel says that if Bill didn't reset the countdown every few weeks, the playlist would play over the radio. So it could be anywhere from a few days to maybe 4 weeks.

shrewdness

Fantastic bit of TV that, quality stuff. Nick Offerman and Murray Bartlett were just brilliant. Big deviation from the game, but it worked so much better for television, and it's not like it's really affected the outcome of the story anyway - in terms of how Joel and Ellie stand at the end of episode 3.

Can't understand the people who say this has no relevance to the plot & Joel/Ellie storyline - despite it being driven home in that letter at the end(clearly not on the nose enough for some people). This is directly related to Joel and his motivations for the remainder of the show. And by focusing on the Bill & Frank story for the episode and how their relationship developed, it gives that message so much more meaning and depth.

Yeah it literally calls out, to Joel, what he has missed out on with Tess and pointing a big neon arrow on Ellie FFS

cena

I thought it was a waste of an episode. You can just skip this episode you won't miss anything

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182671#Comment_120182671

Yeah, who cares about character growth and logical reasons for it.

Or the main character learning the difference between survival and living.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182671#Comment_120182671

You will miss something, though. There's more to storytelling than just advancing the plot (which does happen in this episode, incidentally). World-building, character studies, side stories, even just tone pieces are all perfectly reasonable approaches in episodic storytelling. This episode does all of that, while still pushing the a-plot forward. You don't have to like what they did here - I certainly think there are legitimate criticisms that can be levelled at it. But it's an episode with clear purpose, and it would be very misguided for anyone to skip it IMO.

coltmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182671#Comment_120182671

So if the episode was just the scenes with Joel and Ellie was the entire episode, 15 mins or so, you would say just skip that, nothing happened, honest question.

murpho999

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182671#Comment_120182671

You can also skip to the last page of any whodunnit novel as well to find all the answers.

Or you can just enjoy the journey from the start to finish no matter where it takes you.

Fian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120181521#Comment_120181521

Maybe i misunderstood, but i thought the battery they were looking for from fireflies was a battery for an EV to power the truck. Not a battery to start an internal combustion engine. I imagine i could refill a battery with sulhpuric acid and distilled water, i am old enough to have seen it done and it is perfectly believable that Joel could "make" one like that.

I have no idea how you would go about manufacturing a lithium ion battery from powdered sulphur and distilled water though! so it was not possible to obtain the battery they needed from Bill's place.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120182905#Comment_120182905

I doubt it was an EV. The outbreak happened in 2003 which would essentially mean EVs were never made.

Joel & Tess probably would have found it more difficult to find sulphuric acid and distilled water in the QZ as it would be to just trade with Robert for a working battery.

When Joel opens the fridge in Bill's garage though, he finds a battery and a tub of sulphuric acid beside it, so he was able to make and charge the battery because of what Bill had left for him.

facehugger99

I'd imagine if I'm ever doing a TLOU re-watch a few years from now, Episode 3 is one I'll be skipping.

silverharp

Im not really buying the origin story timeline , flour/sugar etc is stored in warehouses, transported on ships. Countries in Asia would have the contaminated product much earlier than Europe or the America. It doesnt really make sense that it broke out over a day or 2.

Tony EH

As to the idea that Joel decides to continue with Ellie because of Bill's letter, that was already decided on in Episode 2 when Tess convinced him to pursue the mission. Bill's letter is just one more notch, but it's not really that necessary in the grand scheme of things. Joel and Ellie are already on the road because of Tess. He wasn't turning around at this point.

While the episode is well acted and well produced, it really has bugger all to do with the main plot line. It would make absolutely no difference at all if Joel and Ellie randomly stumbled onto anyone's house and found a vehicle and supplies because that's all their coming away with.

If we separate the TV show from the game, it creates a huge hard cut to two completely random characters that the audience hasn't met before and knows nothing of. Then they're killed off and have absolutely nothing to do with Joel and Ellie's journey. Gamers will know the significance of the 1hr+ flashback, but general audiences are going to be all at sea as to why they're spending that much time with two people that have had and will have no real impact on the main plot.

My wife, who hasn't played the game was wondering exactly that. She kept asking why we were still with these guys and what was the point of it. It comes off as a bizarre record skip in the main story to focus on a pair of randomers for a 15 year flashback and it's as awkward as hell.