The Last of Us - HBO *Spoilers* See warning in post #1

It's not why Joel will continue the mission but changes his view of Ellie from cargo to a person to care for.

Big difference in how he interacts with her.

Bill's letter would have meant feck all, to the audience, if we didn't get to know him and Frank, and how Bill changes through his meeting and loving Frank. Something Joel has failed to do, with Tess

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183788#Comment_120183788

His view of Ellie changes over the course of their journey in the game (and I'm sure it will over the course of the TV show too). Bill's letter isn't really making much of a difference. I think there's a bit grasping at straws going on here to try and find some sort of justification for an episode that's essentially a bottle episode with two characters that have little to no relevance to the plot.

Deregos.

Enjoying this show, last nights episode was very different alright. I suppose they were trying to show how life and love can still carry on, even during a zombie apocalypse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183811#Comment_120183811

You have agency and personal investment in the game character. You don't in the show.

The show needs to demonstrate why Joel's attitude softens. The loss of Tess, Bill, and Frank within days and the specific call out by Bill, while leaving everything to him, is a massive hammer blow and visibly cracks his exterior.

In a 9 episode season there is no time for slowly melting the ice between them, it needs a catalyst

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183851#Comment_120183851

Doesn't matter about the agency the player has in the game. Joel's feelings for Ellie changes over the course of the game's story, as they will in the TV show. The set up for that is already in place because of the first two episodes. Tess has already convinced Joel that carrying on with their mission is the right thing to do and the surrogacy nature of Ellie is apparent too. The building blocks are all there. We already see his concern for her when they come across Joel's stash house. She isn't just cargo to him any more.

In the end, Bill's letter is just an nice addition. But it's significance isn't all that important.

Also 9 episodes of an hour + running time is more than enough to build a relationship between characters. Especially if we aren't torn away from them and dumped into the lives of randomers that have no real impact on the plot.

coltmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183769#Comment_120183769

I think the general reception of the episode in critics, gamers and tv only viewers would put your view in the very very small minority. Without this episode we would not know: why people are against Fedra, that raiders are a major threat, how the fungus spread, who were they are in radio contact with, how people survived outside the QZ's, that QZ's were over run and over crowded, what Joel's new purpose in life is, life was to be lived not just survived,Ellie is a not a meek little girl and has issues, Joel has bonded with Ellie more, Tampax is in short supply, she has a gun and many many more things. This is world building and we got an excellent story to go with it. We have all these things going into the next episode. If they were to skip that whole story and just find the note, they would have had to add all that somewhere else. Those who played the game know what the next 2 episodes are so all above would have to be shoved into them diluting those episodes.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183949#Comment_120183949

Whether my view is a small minority or not doesn't matter. The episode is an extremely jarring one and has little to do with the main narrative, irrespective of Bill's letter.

As a story, it's perfectly fine. As an episode of a TV show it's a whiplash.

In addition, all of the secondary items you mention could have unfolded without spending an hour with some random guys in their prepper hold up.

seanin4711

Filler episode

gmisk

I thought episode 3 was excellent, never played the games so no idea if it was part of that.

Spoiler Warning

Bill what a total badass to the very end!

Two wonderful actors, oddly in weird way a bit of hope and normality in an apocalypse, I got a tad emotional.

I wasn't expecting a really well done gay love story in the middle of a show like this!

Greyfox

Just watched episode 3 and it's the best episode of what's been 3 excellent episodes. It was different to the other 2 but I don't see how anybody could think ep3 is not connected to the main story. What they did here was far better than what happens in the game, I didn't really like Bill in the game

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183757#Comment_120183757

I agree it's too quick. I like the sorta science behind it but there is no way all those people eat the wheat on the same day.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183769#Comment_120183769

I'd say it's quite the opposite. I haven't played the game and that was a lovely ep of tv.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183899#Comment_120183899

Bill's letter is hugely significant to Joel. It's more than just Joel deciding to take Ellie with him to find Tommy (that wasn't already decided on, Tess only to told Joel to bring Ellie to Bill & Frank if I remember right). The letter serves as Bill's dying words to Joel. Someone Joel knows is a lot like him, but unlike Joel, Bill changed for the better during the last 20 years. Bill, who didn't trust anyone even before the outbreak, was able to open himself up and fall in love, and find something not just worth surviving for, but living for. Joel hasn't let himself do that, not even with Tess, and has now lost his chance to do so with her.

It also serves to show that Bill in his own way cared for Joel as a friend; writing him a letter of advice on his last day, leaving things out for him, even leaving his bedroom window open so the house wouldn't smell bad. Which means it's more than just Joel finding an empty house and supplies; with Bill & Frank's deaths he's lost the closest things he had to friends as well as Tess.

We had to see the extent of Bill & Frank's relationship because it informs us of who they were but also what Joel knew about them, given that he would have dealt with and traded with them a lot over the years. Us seeing their relationship from beginning to end means we know why they did what they did in the end, and we need that as the audience, because Joel knows why they did it through his character's history with them.

Joel's relationship with Ellie isn't just something that's going to happen by virtue of how much time they'll spend together travelling. He's spent at least 13 years with Tess. But losing Tess, Bill and Frank, along with Bill's dying advice to him (again, as someone who through this episode we're able to see is very similar to Joel) is set up to be a key factor in Joel's evolution.

The idea that half the episode was just spent with two randomers is extremely reductive. I think the events of this episode, the context it gives us about their deaths and the effect it has on Joel, are likely to be vital.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183769#Comment_120183769

The general audience seems to have loved this episode so maybe your not so good at judging what they want.

Also jarring has become such a terribly misused word. I mean hoe easily are you jarred.

ULMarc

That was a class episode last night. It laid out the grounds for the pact brilliantly. And that poignant letter to Joel at the end was so impactful. Fantastic adaptation of plot.

hole in my lovelywall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120179655#Comment_120179655

The music is great. Offerman should release his version of Long Long Time. It is beautiful.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184314#Comment_120184314

I just checked the end of Episode 2 again. Tess tells Joel to take Ellie to Bill & Frank, telling him they'll know what to do and will take Ellie off his hands. Joel says they won't, and Tess says "They will, because you'll convince them."

Joel's plan was to leave her with Bill & Frank, but Bill's letter is definitely key in convincing him to take her to find Tommy with him.

Evade

I thought I recognised Frank's actor, he was DK in Farscape. His American accent has com a long way.

AllForIt

So as you may recall I wasn't enthralled by the first episode but I persevered with it since ya'll gushing about it here.

Glad I did, because even if E3 is a bottle episode it showed me that this can be really good.

Now if I were Frank i would have moved on, because I'd prefer to bang up with a dude with an endless supply of white wine rather than red.

coltmaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120183979#Comment_120183979

I don't get your complaint. So the episode, as tv, was really good but you wanted something else in its place that contained all the things I mentioned or you just wanted to skip onto the next episode to get the story going further, so make it 8 episodes? That doesn't make sense. They could have done the plot points I said and just had Joel and Ellie duck walking listening for clickers and raiders on the off time. We got amazing tv, the story moved on and we learned some cool stuff. If you want zombie bashing and quips there are other series you can watch. If you said instead this should have been what happenee in episode 2 and in episode 2 we got more flash backs of Tess instead of Bill and Frank, you would have a valid point. Or if we get to the end location and they spend 5 mintutes there because of rushing, you would also have a point, but that remains to be seen. Bill and Frank are in the game and they are used as a plot device to get us to where the scene at the end of the tv show ends so we got from A to B and got a nice story in between. I wonder if all episodes were released together would you feel the same way.

Tony EH

From your first paragraph, you really didn't get the complaint, no.

The episode is a decent, self contained, story. But as the 3rd episode of a TV series it's leaves a lot to be desired, because it rips the audience away from the main characters and main narrative to focus on two secondary characters who will now have nothing to do with the story because they're now dead.

And all that happening in just episode 3 makes for a very jarring detour bringing the momentum built up in the first two episodes to a crashing halt.

The rest of your post is meaningless, because I've said none of the things you mention, nor even hinted that they are what I'm looking for. I never mentioned "zombie bashing" or "quips" or any of the other things you say after that.

I've been very clear on what my criticisms are of the episode, so there's no reason to go making things up.

Slydice

Well well well.. look who it is .. again..

I'm shocked.. Shocked! .. ok.. not shocked..

1: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt11957006/ratings/

2: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14500884/ratings/

3: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14500888/ratings/

Was waiting for that

CastorTroy

Nothing at all suspicious about the fact there are over 20,000 more people voting on this episode which is also nearly the number giving it the lowest score. 🙄

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184973#Comment_120184973

As bound to happen as night follows day.

Who cares about IMDB scores though?

Zero-Cool

Was in hospital with my kid the last couple of days so missed this until now (no way was I gonna watch on a phone). Just phenomenal. Murray Bartlett, who plays Frank, is incredible. Saw him in The White Lotus season 1 and he still stole every scene he was in. Nick Offerman is just as good (Jesus, the casting person nailed their task).

Anyway, I'm not usual an emotional person watching stuff but Franks last day wishes had me melting. I have no problem whatsoever that this largely took us out of the Joel/Ellie story as TLOU was always about the relationships formed over killing zombies and this was a literal love letter to the world of The Last of Us.

As a gamer, this was a much better storyline than Bill and Frank in the game but a game would have never been able to do this justice. Just further proof that this series is in exceptional hands.

tony1980

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120184393#Comment_120184393

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=ixrJK4O8wH8

Charlie19

This one episode a week thing is fecking killing me, I'd easily binge this in a 3 or 4 days.

johnny_ultimate

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185125#Comment_120185125

I genuinely think weekly release is *by far* the best way to release a TV show. It creates a communal buzz and engagement that only the rarest of streaming ‘binge-drop’ shows manage - and it sustains that excitement long after a streaming show has disappeared into the algorithmic abyss. It also helps the viewer appreciate the art of the episode IMO - it can all blur into one during a binge, but when watching an episode a week you can appreciate how everything is laid out and structured that bit better. Especially episodes like this week’s - it’s something everyone can digest for a couple of days, rather than just waiting for the autoplay to dump you straight back into Joel and Ellie’s next misadventure.

Tony EH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120185176#Comment_120185176

For sure. But it's an excitement coupled with a kind of irritable longing to see what happens next.