China. A (not) great bunch of lads.

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

What does the OP have to do with covid-19?

Literally, the very first words of the op, "The covid19 event..."

Gas!

skallywag

Captcha wrote: »

Been there three times myself, what is it like then?

Have you been inside Chinese factories?

Many expect to find sweatshop / pollution etc. Sure, it does happen, but the vast majority of the ones which I have been inside are a step above what I have seen in the Western world, when it comes to productivity, efficiency, and pollution awareness.

It does not tend to fit with the preferred western narrative so you do not tend to hear much about it.

skallywag

beejee wrote: »

Literally, the very first words of the op, "The covid19 event..."

Gas!

The crux of the post is concerning the video in the link.

You do not agree?

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

Have you been inside Chinese factories?

Many expect to find sweatshop / pollution etc. Sure, it does happen, but the cast majority of the ones which I have been inside are a step above what I have seen in the Western world, when it comes to productivity, efficiency, and pollution awareness.

It does not tend to fit with the preferred western narrative so you do not tend to hear much about it.

Who needs a narrative when a stone cold disease is infecting people around the world as we type?

And yet again originating out of China.

Whatever the problem is in China, it needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later, because unless people have lost their minds, the trend will keep going. Another 5 years and another new disease is on the cards. If you want to talk factories, China is a disease factory for the rest of the world.

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

The crux of the post is concerning the video in the link.

You do not agree?

It's all very closely related. The disease, the conditions giving rise to the disease, it's the same conversation.

skallywag

beejee wrote: »

Who needs a narrative when a stone cold disease is infecting people around the world as we type?

And yet again originating out of China.

Whatever the problem is in China, it needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later, because unless people have lost their minds, the trend will keep going. Another 5 years and another new disease is on the cards. If you want to talk factories, China is a disease factory for the rest of the world.

What is a 'stone cold disease' ?

skallywag

beejee wrote: »

It's all very closely related. The disease, the conditions giving rise to the disease, it's the same conversation.

The conditions that 'made the virus', is it?

Just like HIV, Ebola, Cholera, Pestilence all also came from China I guess? All being a few levels above Covid-19 in human mortality, but let's not let that get in the way of a good piece of internet forum nonsense, eh?

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

What is a 'stone cold disease' ?

An offhand way of saying "indisputable fact"

English language, boy, have you experience of it?

Captcha

List of Atrocities:

For the LINKS:
https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/dge9ib/i_posted_lists_of_china_bootlickers_atrocities_in/

China's never-ending human rights abuses

Hundreds of human rights lawyers (not even dissidents, just the LAWYERS who defended people) were snatched by gestapo all over China in what is known as the 709 Crackdown.

One of those lawyers, Wang Quanzhang was sentenced to 4.5 years for "subversion of state power". But that's not enough. China actually went after Wang's 6-year-old son, forcing him out of his school and banning any other school from taking him in.

A dissident, [Wang Bingzhang](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wang_Bingzhang_(dissident)) was kidnapped by Chinese agents in Vietnam and sentenced to life in prison after a closed trial that lasted 1 day.

A man wore a t-shirt with the word "Xitler" on it and was disappeared. Eventually he was tried for "subversion of state power" while barred from meeting with lawyers

Another man, Wang Meiyu hold up a placard calling for Xi’s resignation & democracy. He was arrested for "picking quarrels”. He ended up dead in custody.

A woman live streamed herself splashing ink on a Xi poster. She was disappeared. Her last social media update: "Right now there are a group of people wearing uniforms outside my door. I’ll go out after I change my clothes. I did not commit a crime. The people and groups that hurt me are the ones who are guilty". Later on there was report of her being sent to a psychiatric hospital

After the ink-splash woman's disappearance her father made a series of broadcast to call attention to her plight. He ended up getting taken away by the police in the middle of a live stream

5 people associated with a Hong Kong bookstore that sold titles such as "Xi Jinping and His Six Women" were disappeared. Only one managed to escape back to HK. He held a press briefing to tell the world about his kidnapping by China. He's now in exile in Taiwan. The other 4 are still somewhere in China.

And, of course

1.5 million Uyghurs rounded up in concentration camps

Leaked footage of a large number of blindfolded Uyghurs shackled together

Genocide through forced abortions & sterilizations on Uyghur women

Sexual torture of Uyghur women such as rape & rubbing intimate parts with chili paste.

A Canadian journalist wanted to debunk reports of Chinese anti-Muslim repression so he went on a stage-managed show tour put on by China. That means he only saw a fake Potemkin village that China actually thought was acceptable by Western standard. But the brutality of even this fake Potemkin village stunned him. Now imagine what's really happening in the real concentration camps where millions of Uyghurs are being held. Imagine how bad the true situation is.

Using minorities & political prisoners as free organ farms.

Call for retraction of 400 Chinese scientific papers amid fears organs came from Chinese prisoners

15 Chinese studies retracted due to fears they used Chinese prisoners' organs

Cultural genocide & organ harvests. A uyghur's testimony: "First, children were stopped from learning about the Quran, then from going to mosques. It was followed by bans on ramadan, growing beards, giving Islamic names to your baby, etc. Then our language was attacked – we didn’t get jobs if we didn’t know Mandarin. Our passports were collected, we were told to spy on each other, innocent Uyghur prisoners were killed for organ harvesting"

Cultural genocide, part 2 destroy graveyards where generations of Uighur families are buried "to eradicate the ethnic group's identity"

China is moving beyond Uyghur and cracking down on its model minority Hui Muslim. 'Afraid We Will Become The Next Xinjiang': China's Hui Muslims Face Crackdown: "The same restrictions that preceded the Xinjiang crackdown on Uighur Muslims are now appearing in Hui-dominated regions. Hui mosques have been forcibly renovated or shuttered, schools demolished, and religious community leaders imprisoned. Hui who have traveled internationally are increasingly detained or sent to reeducation facilities in Xinjiang."

Leaked photo of an extremely emaciated prisoner of Chinese concentration camps

skallywag

beejee wrote: »

An offhand way of saying "indisputable fact"

English language, boy, have you experience of it?

The English language I use is different, we would say 'experience with it'.

Captcha

Captcha wrote: »

That guy in the video was the first youtuber from China. He lived there for 14 years, married a Chinese doctor and recently had a baby with her. He showed all the positives of China before Chinese government continually harassed him and his wifes family. They left China and moved to USA, where we was more free to be honest and he has the footage to back it all up. Yes his tune has changed but its not made up.

He's had his own issues both in South Africa before he came to China, and then, caused himself a series of problems in China too. He's not an innocent. He's playing up to the groups of people who want to rag on China. Which is fine... It's his choice to be that way, but he would be an utter fool to not expect the blowback.... which is what he received.

Every expat who intends to live in China long term must accept that we don't have freedom to say whatever we want. And that often what we do say (intentionally neutral) will be taken in a negative manner. We all know that doing a youtube channel is risky especially when you're talking about Chinese culture/behavior but from a "western" perspective. He also, after making himself a target, decide to go filming in the areas, which all foreigners know are sensitive areas.

I've met him before in Shenzhen. Nice guy... But I'm not giving him a free pass on this. He knew what he was getting himself into.

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

The conditions that 'made the virus', is it?

Just like HIV, Ebola, Cholera, Pestilence all also came from China I guess? All being a few levels above Covid-19 in human mortality, but let's not let that get in the way of a good piece of internet forum nonsense, eh?

Sure why stop there with the insane what-aboutism?

Dinosaurs. They were killing things left right and center back in the day. What about them?!

One disease after another is originating in China. Not including bullshoite from centuries ago, these Chinese diseases are coming one after another all within the space of a couple decades.

Coincidence? Yeah, if you're an imbecile

Captcha

https://nypost.com/2020/02/08/chinas-culture-of-lies-has-helped-spread-the-coronavirus/

"This week, Dr. Li Wenliang, 34, died from the coronavirus after trying to spread word of the disease weeks before China would admit it was a serious threat. When Wenliang first warned his medical school classmates on Dec. 30 about the outbreak, police detained him for “rumor-mongering” and his posts were censored."

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

The English language I use is different, we would say 'experience with it'.

I'm doing you a favour. "Of it" infers a vague experience, whereas "with it" infers a more direct experience.

So, I'll continue to assume you have a hazy experience of language

skallywag

beejee wrote: »

...these Chinese diseases are coming one after another all within the space of a couple decades...

Bird-Flu, Swine-Flu, SARS, and ... ? What else? But tell me, how many did these kill? In total?

HIV was not centuries ago, I am guessing you might agree with me on that? How many has HIV/AIDS killed in relation to the 'Chinese diseases' ?

skallywag

skallywag wrote: »

I wonder how many of the China bashers on this thread have ever actually visited China?

Ever had friends living and working there who can tell you what it is really like?

I've been inside Chinese factories in Dongguan and Anshan last year, doing audits. Very interesting indeed.

Dongguan. Yup. A very interesting city. :pac::pac::pac:

beejee wrote: »

AIDS was essentially confined within, and spread because of, one specific community. An easy target that was let slide, and now it's everywhere and everyone's problem. Good point.

Your first part is rubbish. AIDS was spread through bushmeat, then blood transfusions, and also through sexual intercourse. Your suggestion that it was one specific community, just displays a serious ignorance on the whole thing.

You're still not ranting about AIDS though, and complaining about where it originated.

Allergies are non-specific. If new allergies were originating from one specific country and one specific group of people, there'd be something to talk about. But it isn't, so there isn't.

Allergies are something that is often linked to modern food processing. Are you going to rant about the companies that profit by creating illness in society?

"humans suffer disease, therefore everything is grand" is some stupid attitude to have.

Except that's not my attitude. My attitude is that ranting about China and blaming them for this disease, is counter-productive. It's not going to change anything, except to isolate China from the world, in terms of dealing with the problem.

And you haven't shown me that this isn't just a fashion to dump on China or virtue signalling. Where is your outrage for all the other diseases that affect humanity? Where is your criticism of the countries that they originated from?

There is none.

skallywag

beejee wrote: »

So, I'll continue to assume you have a hazy experience of language

I assume you meant to write 'I will continue to assume that you have a hazy experience of language'.

skallywag

skallywag wrote: »

Have you been inside Chinese factories?

Many expect to find sweatshop / pollution etc. Sure, it does happen, but the vast majority of the ones which I have been inside are a step above what I have seen in the Western world, when it comes to productivity, efficiency, and pollution awareness.

It does not tend to fit with the preferred western narrative so you do not tend to hear much about it.

And yet, some are pretty horrible too. I've been to some in Shanxi. Extremely low standards of safety for the workers, and the workers are required to work excessive hours. Same with the processing plants for the coal production.

China is a country of extremes. Extreme modern thinking in certain areas, and primitive or backward thinking in other regions. The countryside is generally where the worst crap goes on, but smaller cities can be pretty dodgy too.

skallywag

Deleted User wrote: »

Dongguan. Yup. A very interesting city. :pac::pac::pac:

Your comment has me thinking that I may have missed out on something :pac:

beejee

beejee wrote: »

Who needs a narrative when a stone cold disease is infecting people around the world as we type?

And yet again originating out of China.

Whatever the problem is in China, it needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later, because unless people have lost their minds, the trend will keep going. Another 5 years and another new disease is on the cards. If you want to talk factories, China is a disease factory for the rest of the world.

I wonder do you really understand just how simple-minded you appear?:rolleyes:

China is dealing with it. It's called modernisation. It's one of the reasons for all that pollution that they expel. It's the mission to boost their economy, and as that's boosted, improvements to infrastructure occur. Better sewage systems, better hospitals or medical facilities etc.

It's quite funny in a way. Irish people are going nuts about the state of their health service, with a population of less than 5 million. Now, imagine the healthcare costs involved for 1.4 billion people. To establish hospitals, improve education of doctors/nurses, etc. And then the needs to improve their general infrastructure for sewage, water, etc. Educating a massive population about environmental concerns, health, etc.

China and India both face an incredible challenge in improving their countries. It's not a matter of snapping their fingers and making it all work immediately. It will take time. Especially, due to cultural problems such as corruption, and poor education...

My neighborhood has recycling bins now. The vast majority of cars/vehicles are electric. There are many signs of China changing.. and it will simply take time for it to happen.

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

Bird-Flu, Swine-Flu, SARS, and ... ? What else? But tell me, how many did these kill? In total?

HIV was not centuries ago, I am guessing you might agree with me on that? How many has HIV/AIDS killed in relation to the 'Chinese diseases' ?

"Who's the dumb-dumb in the class, the guy who failed last time, the time before that, and the time before that...?"

You answered your own question.

You bring up HIV, and as I already put that argument in the grave, I'll do it again. HIV was a specific problem, then it spread to being a general problem. It is not from one specific place anymore, it is not from a specific group of people anymore. China IS a specific place, and it has a specific problem.

The two are no longer the same. And even if they were, if HIV had, today, an easily identified source, that source would have to have produced multiple diseases to make a fair comparison.

This thread is so full of craziness it's like shooting fish in a barrel!

friendlyfun

Duke of Url wrote: »

Is the US currently pillaging Africa?

Deebles McBeebles

skallywag wrote: »

'Chinese diseases'

Inevitable title for the next Guns n' Roses album.

skallywag

skallywag wrote: »

Your comment has me thinking that I may have missed out on something :pac:

It's a city with a reputation for Gangsters, prostitution, and "open" thinking. I taught there for 6 months. I had a female student with two boyfriends, and the boyfriends were friends with each other. It's that kind of city. A very strange mix of traditional and modern thinking...

beejee

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dongguan. Yup. A very interesting city. :pac::pac::pac:



Your first part is rubbish. AIDS was spread through bushmeat, then blood transfusions, and also through sexual intercourse. Your suggestion that it was one specific community, just displays a serious ignorance on the whole thing.

You're still not ranting about AIDS though, and complaining about where it originated.



Allergies are something that is often linked to modern food processing. Are you going to rant about the companies that profit by creating illness in society?



Except that's not my attitude. My attitude is that ranting about China and blaming them for this disease, is counter-productive. It's not going to change anything, except to isolate China from the world, in terms of dealing with the problem.

And you haven't shown me that this isn't just a fashion to dump on China or virtue signalling. Where is your outrage for all the other diseases that affect humanity? Where is your criticism of the countries that they originated from?

There is none.

Your "arguments" are so full of shyt you'd put a diarrheeic elephant to shame.

You are 100% wrong on HIV, sneakily trying to avoid the most bloody obvious thing in the world. "It spread because of intercourse", how non-specific of you! Disingenuous and, thankfully, clear for all to see.

So it makes sense that you refuse to link Chinese borne diseases to China. Bullshyt.

Your overall point, if you took a second to think about it, is "you can't complain about this problem because you didn't complain about that other problem".

How would you know what I challenge and have challenged over your example time span of decades??

Virtue signalling? The "fashion"?....

Im not going to argue with someone whos trying to convince me that up is down. It isn't, wasn't, and won't ever be. But, I'm sure you'll take that as a" win". But man, deep down (maybe very deep down in your case), you know you're talking trollocks, 24/7.

Captcha

Captcha wrote: »

List of Atrocities:

Nobody is trying to paint China as a wonderful place. It's a feckin police state with a totalitarian attitude to politics and zero tolerance for internal disruption.

You really think anyone here really needed to see that list? We all know that stuff. Oh.. we should be outraged?

Err... nah. I don't buy it. I find, as I get older, that I'm becoming very skeptical at the supposed outrage that internet posters have about atrocities or breaches of human rights. It was different when the Internet was a new medium. Sure, people will discuss atrocities online... but where is their investment beyond that? Have you bought your tickets to act as a volunteer to help these minorities? And you could... you can go over, and perhaps share a tiny part of their problems for a while...

Or simply stay at home and rant.

beejee

beejee wrote: »

You bring up HIV, and as I already put that argument in the grave, I'll do it again. HIV was a specific problem, then it spread to being a general problem. It is not from one specific place anymore, it is not from a specific group of people anymore. China IS a specific place, and it has a specific problem.

Except that you didn't "put that argument in the grave". You deflected.

And your logic is working against you. First, we have no evidence that Covid-19 originated in China. It's simply where the first human case was detected. It could easily have happened in another country, and not been detected. Second, the idea that it's not from a specific place is a double standard... AIDS originated in Africa, but you now consider it a general problem. Covid-19 was detected in China, but it's now also a general problem. Your own logic, btw.

This thread is so full of craziness it's like shooting fish in a barrel!

I've noticed. Your contributions to the craziness are noted.

beejee wrote: »

Youre "arguments" are so full of shyt you'd put a diarrheeic elephant to shame.

Another deflection?

You are 100% wrong on HIV, sneakily trying to avoid the most bloody obvious thing in the world. "It spread because of intercourse", how non-specific of you! Disingenuous and, thankfully, clear for all to see.

Empty words... I'm beginning to wonder if you do know how to argue...? You do have to contribute something of value as a rejoinder... Not simply dismiss everything.

So it makes sense that you refuse to link Chinese borne diseases to China. Bullshyt.

Um. I haven't.

Im not going to argue with someone whos trying to convince me that up is down. It isn't, wasn't, and won't ever be. But, I'm sure you'll take that as a" win". But man, deep down (maybe very deep down in your case), you know you're talking trollocks, 24/7.

You haven't even begun to argue yet. That's the problem.

beejee

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except that you didn't "put that argument in the grave". You deflected.

And your logic is working against you. First, we have no evidence that Covid-19 originated in China. It's simply where the first human case was detected. It could easily have happened in another country, and not been detected. Second, the idea that it's not from a specific place is a double standard... AIDS originated in Africa, but you now consider it a general problem. Covid-19 was detected in China, but it's now also a general problem. Your own logic, btw.



I've noticed. Your contributions to the craziness are noted.



Another deflection?



Empty words... I'm beginning to wonder if you do know how to argue...? You do have to contribute something of value as a rejoinder... Not simply dismiss everything.



Um. I haven't.



You haven't even begun to argue yet. That's the problem.

"First, we have no evidence that Covid-19 originated in China. It's simply where the first human case was detected."

Re-read that shyt again. Does that sound sensible to you? And the other recent diseases out of China? I suppose they're still a complete mystery to you too regarding origin? "Who can say?!", right?

"AIDS originated in Africa, but you now consider it a general problem"

Africa is a continent, first of all. Think that over again. Apply logic to it and the dimension known as "time". You believe AIDS only occurs in a specific place now, or among a specific group now? Or, as I said, that it's a general problem?

Crazy crazy crazy.

Diseases are originating in China one after another within a tiny space of time. That is THE problem.

It is specific.

It is happening now, not 350 years ago.

It is relevant.

To combat a disease you seek out the source and destroy it. The window of opportunity to combat these global problems is very narrow. The next disease out of China could be many times worse. And there WILL be another. And another until it is stopped.

The effort to avoid and obfuscate such readily observed facts, and thereby readily actionable solutions, is incredible.

beejee

skallywag wrote: »

I assume you meant to write 'I will continue to assume that you have a hazy experience of language'.

You assume uncorrectly

beejee

beejee wrote: »

"First, we have no evidence that Covid-19 originated in China. It's simply where the first human case was detected."

Re-read that shyt again. Does that sound sensible to you? And the other recent diseases out of China? I suppose they're still a complete mystery to you too regarding origin? "Who can say?!", right?

Um... still waiting for an actual argument...

It's rather amusing actually. It's like the US movies with the gangsta teenagers on the basketball court, with their hip-hop gestures/moves, throwing slang and fancy sentences at each other.. (Yes, I'm feeling my age).. but actually saying nothing of value..

You haven't provided a counter argument. No facts. No links. Nothing. Just a rinse and repeat dismissal of other posters opinions. Care to actually contribute rather than continuing to rant?