Importing from the UK - definitive guide (Q and A)

deezell

lomb wrote: »

......No one needs year old mercs ,bmws and if they do they can pay for it etc

If they do, first statement is false. If they do, they have to pay. Cars are not free.
I'm sure you're trying to make a point about 13 year old cars with only 5000 km on the clock, (or is that €5000?) and pristine classic 1980 cars, and 2020 Mercs and Beamers, but I'm not sure what the point is.

pale rider

ironictoaster wrote: »

I just read the last 15 pages of this thread . Thanks to all for their input, helping me decipher this mess.

Is there a way to know if a used car sold in NI was originally registered for use in NI and not imported from the UK to avoid duties? I'm still interested in purchasing a car in NI.

If it is registered in NI then its registered period, far as I know there is no stipulation on how long it must be registered in NI.

If imported from the UK to Ni then you need the NI dealer give you a customs declaration, if on GB plates when presented to vrt it then you may be in bother but we trust other users will update us on their experiences..

Believe me when I say there is no value in importing a recent year car from NI, the vrt payable has put an end to this particular cross border trading, at least at current exchange rates..

Thomasirl123

Dublin revenue officials calm fears that cross-border trade in British-sourced vehicles would mean 31% duty

Anyone got access to the whole article?
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/no-extra-brexit-fees-for-selling-cars-from-gb-into-republic-northern-ireland-dealers-told-39978032.html

Thomasirl123

lomb wrote: »

Not to be a downer but there are too many used cars in Ireland many are scrapped even if there is nothing wrong with them. Any 2008 car which is less than 5k is better than the best car in 1980. No one needs year old mercs ,bmws and if they do they can pay for it etc

Downer isn't the word I'd use, whole post makes no sense.
No one needs a house, a cave/hut/caravan would do.
Those 2008s were year old cars at one stage too.

deezell

Importing is dead. Today's article in the Indo points to the confusion reigning at the moment. It suggests traders will be able claim back the 21% VAT on import, naively ignoring the inescapable fact it will have to be reapplied, on the import price AND the dealer margin on sale to the public (Great article aside).
https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/motor-trade-seeks-route-back-from-double-whammy-of-2020-39972141.html
No one has the inside track on this. Not Simi, Motoring Journalists, Revenue, tax experts. It's a clusterf***. What you can depend on is huge increase in used car prices. You can depend on Revenue taking the default of maximum tax, until told otherwise. The Greens stupidly believe we will buy 100,000 electric cars per year by 2030. The elephant in the room is the €10K that is given to every EV registered here, instead of being hammered by VRT. Add to that approximately €800 per annum per car lost in fuel duty and tax. Who is going to make up that shortfall? There are no answers, just a short term cash grab. If they ban fossil fuel cars in 2030, the used prices will rocket, not fall, as there won't be anything to replace them, except unaffordable and unavailable EVs .

ELM327

deezell wrote: »

Importing is dead. Today's article in the Indo points to the confusion reigning at the moment. It suggests traders will be able claim back the 21% VAT on import, naively ignoring the inescapable fact it will have to be reapplied, on the import price AND the dealer margin on sale to the public (Great article aside).
https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/motor-trade-seeks-route-back-from-double-whammy-of-2020-39972141.html
No one has the inside track on this. Not Simi, Motoring Journalists, Revenue, tax experts. It's a clusterf***. What you can depend on is huge increase in used car prices. You can depend on Revenue taking the default of maximum tax, until told otherwise. The Greens stupidly believe we will buy 100,000 electric cars per year by 2030. The elephant in the room is the €10K that is given to every EV registered here, instead of being hammered by VRT. Add to that approximately €800 per annum per car lost in fuel duty and tax. Who is going to make up that shortfall? There are no answers, just a short term cash grab. If they ban fossil fuel cars in 2030, the used prices will rocket, not fall, as there won't be anything to replace them, except unaffordable and unavailable EVs .

Just to clarify a few points here.
I imported a 3 year old Model S from the UK in 2019. I was not given 10k. There was a 5k discount on VRT (I still paid 3k vrt). The other 5k is given to the OEMs and not to the end purchaser. And that is only for new registration, not used imports.
I would say there's more that 800 per annum lost in car tax and duty on fuel. I changed from an e60 535d with 1500 tax and getting 30mpg doing 50k km a year. That's a lot of duty lost. Not everyone who changes to an EV is changing from a low tax car doing low mileage.




I agree, the proposed ban from 2030 is nonsense and simply wont happen.

deezell

Thomasirl123 wrote: »

Dublin revenue officials calm fears that cross-border trade in British-sourced vehicles would mean 31% duty

Anyone got access to the whole article?
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/northern-ireland/no-extra-brexit-fees-for-selling-cars-from-gb-into-republic-northern-ireland-dealers-told-39978032.html

Read it again. VAT will not be applied GB to NI. But from NI to ROI ?.... 21% VAT alone will kill imports, on top of WLTP and Nox increases. Unless NI can write down 20% UK VAT implicit in non vat qualifying on export, which I doubt, importing is a dead duck. There was never a 21% saving for private importing. 10%, 15 at most. The VAT qualifying pool of cars via NI is the only glimmer of hope, but NI dealers will pocket most of the benefit

lomb

deezell wrote: »

If they do, first statement is false. If they do, they have to pay. Cars are not free.
I'm sure you're trying to make a point about 13 year old cars with only 5000 km on the clock, (or is that €5000?) and pristine classic 1980 cars, and 2020 Mercs and Beamers, but I'm not sure what the point is.

Any car from 2005 can do 500000 miles without a bother (if you maintain it properly which most Irish people wont, labour is also too dear here to maintain properly and you dont feel too good sinking 2grand into a car only worth 2 grand) I still think that with the exception of the big improvement in offset frontal impacts since 2015 no one needs a new car. Electric cars are bs, petrol and diesel all the way...

deezell

ELM327 wrote: »

Just to clarify a few points here.
I imported a 3 year old Model S from the UK in 2019. I was not given 10k. There was a 5k discount on VRT (I still paid 3k vrt). The other 5k is given to the OEMs and not to the end purchaser. And that is only for new registration, not used imports.
I would say there's more that 800 per annum lost in car tax and duty on fuel. I changed from an e60 535d with 1500 tax and getting 30mpg doing 50k km a year. That's a lot of duty lost. Not everyone who changes to an EV is changing from a low tax car doing low mileage.




I agree, the proposed ban from 2030 is nonsense and simply wont happen.

50k km per annum is way above average, as is a 535D consumption. Try 16-20km, (10-12000 miles), about 4c per km tax based on say 7L/100km for a modern medium class diesel.(about 40mpg). That's about 7litre/100km, .07l/km, by €0.6 tax per litre, near enough 4.2 cent per km, hence my rough figure of €800 per annum for an average Joe. It wasn't a guess.

Isambard

deezell wrote: »

Importing is dead. Today's article in the Indo points to the confusion reigning at the moment. It suggests traders will be able claim back the 21% VAT on import, naively ignoring the inescapable fact it will have to be reapplied, on the import price AND the dealer margin on sale to the public (Great article aside).
https://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/motor-trade-seeks-route-back-from-double-whammy-of-2020-39972141.html
No one has the inside track on this. Not Simi, Motoring Journalists, Revenue, tax experts. It's a clusterf***. What you can depend on is huge increase in used car prices. You can depend on Revenue taking the default of maximum tax, until told otherwise. The Greens stupidly believe we will buy 100,000 electric cars per year by 2030. The elephant in the room is the €10K that is given to every EV registered here, instead of being hammered by VRT. Add to that approximately €800 per annum per car lost in fuel duty and tax. Who is going to make up that shortfall? There are no answers, just a short term cash grab. If they ban fossil fuel cars in 2030, the used prices will rocket, not fall, as there won't be anything to replace them, except unaffordable and unavailable EVs .

that's why I'm non-plussed at posts in this forum deriding people buying diesel. Once they can't be bought new, used prices will climb . In any case 2030 is 9 years away, plenty of time to wear out a couple more.

ELM327

deezell wrote: »

50k km per annum is way above average, as is a 535D consumption. Try 16-20km, (10-12000 miles), about 4c per km tax based on say 7L/100km for a modern medium class diesel.(about 40mpg). That's about 7litre/100km, .07l/km, by €0.6 tax per litre, near enough 4.2 cent per km, hence my rough figure of €800 per annum for an average Joe. It wasn't a guess.

It's a lot more than that.


I aprreciate it is averaged out, but I'm just saying that not everyone moves to an EV from a prius or a small car.

deezell

lomb wrote: »

Any car from 2005 can do 500000 miles without a bother.....

That is so wrong. Years ago I read the average milage of a Clio was about 80k, scrap after that. Volvos used to be exceptional, till they put Ford engines in them. I scrapped a 07 S40 in 2019 for the €600 road tax refund, the ****ty ford engine was drinking oil, failed NCT. Car (immaculate, fsh) worth less than the repair cost with only 110k on the clock. Couldnt get €200 on donedeal. Got €80 from the breaker plus road tax refunded. A shame.

lomb

lomb wrote: »

Any car from 2005 can do 500000 miles without a bother (if you maintain it properly which most Irish people wont, labour is also too dear here to maintain properly and you dont feel too good sinking 2grand into a car only worth 2 grand) I still think that with the exception of the big improvement in offset frontal impacts since 2015 no one needs a new car. Electric cars are bs, petrol and diesel all the way...

The problem is the vested interests start to tell you your old car is not all that welcome on the road. After 10 years its yearly NCT after 15 some insurance companies may not quote you.

lomb

deezell wrote: »

That is so wrong. Years ago I read the average milage of a Clio was about 80k, scrap after that. Volvos used to be exceptional, till they put Ford engines in them. I scrapped a 07 S40 in 2019 for the €600 road tax refund, the ****ty ford engine was drinking oil, failed NCT. Car (immaculate, fsh) worth less than the repair cost with only 110k on the clock. Couldnt get €200 on donedeal. Got €80 from the breaker plus road tax refunded. A shame.

Your right, I should have said any well engineered car from 2005. Your correct many werent. I think most hondas, toyotas, volkswagens petrol or diesel could do it.

lomb

Deleted User wrote: »

The problem is the vested interests start to tell you your old car is not all that welcome on the road. After 10 years its yearly NCT after 15 some insurance companies may not quote you.

Thats true there are vested interest out there that tell you your 15 year old car is no good. Its being loaded on road tax, insurance and people say it isnt environmentally friendly whereas building a new one is much more unfriendly than keeping the old one on the road.
Funny thing is take a trip down to Ballsbridge and drive down Shrewsbury road theres plenty of 10+ year old cars there and Im sure they could buy whatever they want.
I do think the latest cars are much safer in the offset frontal impacts as they have the door pillars reinforced. I think the North American Insurance institute started testing a few years ago and the manufacturers have responded. So I cant blame anyone for wanting a new or newish car but if its to save money or the environment thats BS.

lomb

deezell wrote: »

That is so wrong. Years ago I read the average milage of a Clio was about 80k, scrap after that. Volvos used to be exceptional, till they put Ford engines in them. I scrapped a 07 S40 in 2019 for the €600 road tax refund, the ****ty ford engine was drinking oil, failed NCT. Car (immaculate, fsh) worth less than the repair cost with only 110k on the clock. Couldnt get €200 on donedeal. Got €80 from the breaker plus road tax refunded. A shame.

What ford engine was that? Ive seen a taxi Mondeo with around 275k miles or 440k km and was running well. I think maybe from 2010 or 2012 something like that. The suspension bushes were gone though.

ELM327

lomb wrote: »

What ford engine was that? Ive seen a taxi Mondeo with around 275k miles or 440k km and was running well. I think maybe from 2010 or 2012 something like that. The suspension bushes were gone though.

It was actually the 1.6 PSA unit I suppose he's referring to.

User1998

lomb wrote: »

What ford engine was that? Ive seen a taxi Mondeo with around 275k miles or 440k km and was running well. I think maybe from 2010 or 2012 something like that. The suspension bushes were gone though.

Okay but back to your original point, not everyone wants a taxi Mondeo with half a million kilometres or a 20 year old clapped out Clio

I buy from the UK and upgrade every year. My total cost of ownership is €0 because I usually make profit when I sell the car and I pay €0 depreciation. Now it seems I can’t do that anymore and I’m pissed.

There are lots of people who want 2-3 year old high end cars and thats okay. Ranting on about how 20 year old cars are great and that theres no need for all these cars being imported is absolutely rubbish

cranefly

It was scrappage deals brought in here years ago that messed up the used car market. I stupidly thought at the time that anyone wanting to upgrade there car, " mines usually 10 to 15 years old", buying a car maybe 4 or 5 years old would benefit from this scheme when trading the old car in, instead, i found out it only applied to brand new cars. So people who had fairly new and very decent cars used this scheme to buy brand new, and there old car was scrapped, taken off the used car market, the exact type of car i was looking to upgrade to. Had to keep a 04 Laguna a bit longer than we thought, paying the road tax of nearly 600 euro a year, when all we wanted was to find a decent car in the 180 euro road tax bracket. and these schemes are usually brought in to clear the road of old bangers i thought, how wrong was I.

CarPark2

Can anybody explain this from the revenue website

“Vehicles first registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021
You can register a vehicle first registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021 without any check on its customs status. If it is a new vehicle for VAT purposes, then the VAT is collected at registration.”

It seems to me that a vehicle that is registered in NÍ after 01.01.21 won’t have to pay customs at import, but what about the VAT?

When is a vehicle “new for VAT purposes” and when they say “VAT is collected at registration” do they mean when it was registered in NÍ or when I (re)-register it in Ireland?

deezell

ELM327 wrote: »

It was actually the 1.6 PSA unit I suppose he's referring to.

Rubbish Focus petrol one. Piston seals fail, drinks oil.

deezell

CarPark2 wrote: »

Can anybody explain this from the revenue website

“Vehicles first registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021

That implies New or Imported Used. Do NI owners have to get NI plates on UK imports? Can a NI garage get NI plates for UK used stock?

You can register a vehicle first registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021 without any check on its customs status. If it is a new vehicle for VAT purposes, then the VAT is collected at registration.”

Vehicles as desribed above, and VAT only due on new vehicles (for VAT purposes), which is less than 6 months old, less than 6000km, same as before. The phrase ' If it is new' definitely implies it can be used also.

It seems to me that a vehicle that is registered in NÍ after 01.01.21 won’t have to pay customs at import, but what about the VAT?

When is a vehicle “new for VAT purposes” and when they say “VAT is collected at registration” do they mean when it was registered in NÍ or when I (re)-register it in Ireland?

Looks like no VAT on used, once it has an NI plate, which could be a used UK? Irish VAT is only collected on 'New for VAT', and is collected at Irish registration. Such a car can be sold for export in NI without UK VAT, as its almost certainly a vat qualifying car, so this transaction also looks like pre Brexit.
Is this the 'little earner' for NI that I was betting on many posts back? A route for the private buyer, albeit with a NI based middle man, or Irish dealers with a virtual NI address registering UK imports up there prior to moving them down here? A deliberate loophole?

User1998

I’m 100% certain that if you import a car from GB to NI, register the car there on NI plates and to a NI resident, you can then import the car to Ireland and only pay VRT. Its black and white on Revenues website

From Revenue:

“Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021

Proof that vehicles were properly imported into Northern Ireland will be required for vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently, after 1 January 2021, either:

registered to a private individual or a business in Northern Ireland
or
sold by a motor dealer with an address in Northern Ireland.

Proof will be in the form of:

a copy of the customs declaration showing the importation of the vehicle into Northern Ireland

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

mgn

User1998 wrote: »

I’m 100% certain that if you import a car from GB to NI, register the car there on NI plates and to a NI resident, you can then import the car to Ireland and only pay VRT. Its black and white on Revenues website

From Revenue:

“Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021

Proof that vehicles were properly imported into Northern Ireland will be required for vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently, after 1 January 2021, either:

registered to a private individual or a business in Northern Ireland
or
sold by a motor dealer with an address in Northern Ireland.

Proof will be in the form of:

a copy of the customs declaration showing the importation of the vehicle into Northern Ireland

https://www.revenue.ie/en/importing-vehicles-duty-free-allowances/guide-to-vrt/registration-of-imported-used-vehicles/vehicles-imported-from-gb-and-ni.aspx

I don't think NI dealers have to put NI plates on them before the sell them, Just proof that the brought the car and are liable for VAT on profit on selling it.

deezell

User1998 wrote: »

I’m 100% certain that if you import a car from GB to NI, register the car there on NI plates and to a NI resident, you can then import the car to Ireland and only pay VRT. Its black and white on Revenues website

From Revenue:

“Vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently registered in Northern Ireland after 1 January 2021

Proof that vehicles were properly imported into Northern Ireland will be required for vehicles first registered in Great Britain and subsequently, after 1 January 2021, either:

registered to a private individual or a business in Northern Ireland
or
sold by a motor dealer with an address in Northern Ireland......

Look at that last line, there's an 'or' before it. So even if it still has UK plates, once it's sold by a NI dealer, its treated the same as a NI registered vehicle for the purpose of import here. So,
1. Buy car from dealer with uk plates.
2. buy car in UK, bring to NI, put through dealers books for a fee, he pays vat on Margin, you bring car down without Irish VAT or duty.
3. Select UK car and let the dealer do the rest, business to business, they trade cars for under retail as they take over warranty etc.
4. Dealer has an arrangement with a UK chain to move their stock here, so you choose from UK stock.

Definitely a business model there, but private importing seems excluded for all but NI reg cars. We live in interesting times.

Casati

deezell wrote: »

Look at that last line, there's an 'or' before it. So even if it still has UK plates, once it's sold by a NI dealer, its treated the same as a NI registered vehicle for the purpose of import here. So,
1. Buy car from dealer with uk plates.
2. buy car in UK, bring to NI, put through dealers books for a fee, he pays vat on Margin, you bring car down without Irish VAT or duty.
3. Select UK car and let the dealer do the rest, business to business, they trade cars for under retail as they take over warranty etc.
4. Dealer has an arrangement with a UK chain to move their stock here, so you choose from UK stock.

Definitely a business model there, but private importing seems excluded for all but NI reg cars. We live in interesting times.

I like options 2 to 4 but fail to understand why a NÍ dealer wouldn’t simply go with option 1 and make a massive margin if Irish buyers don’t have a cheaper option?

deezell

Casati wrote: »

I like options 2 to 4 but fail to understand why a NÍ dealer wouldn’t simply go with option 1 and make a massive margin if Irish buyers don’t have a cheaper option?

I'm figuring if he can make a few quid on a car he doesn't have to 'import' until its already bought, the kind of car some lads here spend a lot of time sourcing in the UK, whereas dealers might just bring in the safer generic stock. You can spend weeks looking for the one with the lucrative options you seek, and you're not going to find it on a NI forecourt. Once you find it, off with you to your man, he processs paperwork, add uk vat to his fee, the car comes down here with proper NI import papers, he's had no capital tied up in it. Really, hes an import agent. Lets see what happens. 100,000 UK imports per annum that now must traverse NI is a business option.

Isambard

deezell wrote: »

Look at that last line, there's an 'or' before it. So even if it still has UK plates, once it's sold by a NI dealer, its treated the same as a NI registered vehicle for the purpose of import here. So,
1. Buy car from dealer with uk plates.
2. buy car in UK, bring to NI, put through dealers books for a fee, he pays vat on Margin, you bring car down without Irish VAT or duty.
3. Select UK car and let the dealer do the rest, business to business, they trade cars for under retail as they take over warranty etc.
4. Dealer has an arrangement with a UK chain to move their stock here, so you choose from UK stock.

Definitely a business model there, but private importing seems excluded for all but NI reg cars. We live in interesting times.

Provided that the necessary paperwork is in place. It will have had to be declared to NI Customs on "export" from GB properly (as they say) and then declared again to Revenue on crossing the border.

It's a lot of faffing around and the NI dealer is not going to let it go cheap, so I can't see there's a benefit to using this system. A RoI car would be much the same price

trellheim

Definitely a business model there, but private importing seems excluded for all but NI reg cars

unless you want to cough up the extra VAT ; for some this will still be the case for cars/options that you just cannot get at any price in Ireland

Cee-Jay-Cee

cranefly wrote: »

It was scrappage deals brought in here years ago that messed up the used car market. I stupidly thought at the time that anyone wanting to upgrade there car, " mines usually 10 to 15 years old", buying a car maybe 4 or 5 years old would benefit from this scheme when trading the old car in, instead, i found out it only applied to brand new cars. So people who had fairly new and very decent cars used this scheme to buy brand new, and there old car was scrapped, taken off the used car market, the exact type of car i was looking to upgrade to. Had to keep a 04 Laguna a bit longer than we thought, paying the road tax of nearly 600 euro a year, when all we wanted was to find a decent car in the 180 euro road tax bracket. and these schemes are usually brought in to clear the road of old bangers i thought, how wrong was I.

That didn't actually happen. Those cars were sold and while the original owner was of the belief that they had availed of the scrappage scheme, in reality they didn't and it was a simple trade in situation (which most likely left the dealer with a bigger profit than if the car had been traded in for its book value). Dealers are not that stupid that they would scrap a relatively new car, only old cars that were not worth selling were scrapped.