Coronavirus

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I provided evidence

I'm not having a go, because to be honest this is a "higher" standard than your normal stuff, but that's not direct evidence.

You took a bunch of unconnected events, supplied by people on the internet who scoured for anything like that, connected them using tenuous links, "filled in the gaps giant leaps" with your imagination, then reached a conclusion you started with

TLDR; you assumed a conspiracy and creatively worked backwards to "get there". Which is literally 99% of conspiracies on the internet.

It might be fun to play, but it's faulty thinking

Cheerful Spring2

The Nal wrote: »

"November 2019".

Its March 2020 now.

Vaping related illness peaked in Sep 2019. One month after the CDC shutdown the Fort Detrick US army main bio lab in Virgina.

You could easily have mild spreaders infecting other people with the virus.

China was impacted in Oct and Nov 2019 ( one month difference) the virus can be in the body up to 21 days and maybe longer?

It very possible that someone travelling from America to China in October could have had the virus?

Vaping alone is not proof. The unidentified mystery illness in Virgina that should not be ignored.

Cheerful Spring2

Hmmm Crazy Pompeo at it again. Trump should fire that guy before he can do real damage.

https://twitter.com/ColinKahl/status/1243703327302373377

IAMAMORON

Business Post reckons we are all going to get our phones tracked.

They alluded to this in the Zeitgeist movie, albeit they were talking about microchips. It does not take much of a stretch to see where this is going.

https://www.businesspost.ie/

https://www.businesspost.ie/health/phone-tracking-app-set-to-be-used-as-next-step-to-fight-covid-19-f0ebedaf

I am not a techy. However if we are to believe Edward Snowden this tech is already available on a standard smart phone? No idea myself, but if anyone could clarify?

ShatterAlan

Do people really think that this virus was released because someone ate a bat?


Seriously?


Do people eat bats normally? And if they do why wasn't this virus unleashed years if not centuries ago?


Finally how does anyone know that it was unleashed because someone ate a bat? Did someone just rock up to the doctors and say "I feel like sh1t. I just ate a bat"?

Nobody recognises that the Cubans have have had a cure (Interferon Alpha 2b) since the 1980's and that they moved into China, Korwa, Singapore and now Italy.
And those countries are now stabilising.

Why is it a stretch of the imagination that the COVID-19 virus is man-made rather than a naturally occuring organism?

IAMAMORON

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Do people really think that this virus was released because someone ate a bat?


Seriously?


Do people eat bats normally? And if they do why wasn't this virus unleashed years if not centuries ago?


Finally how does anyone know that it was unleashed because someone ate a bat? Did someone just rock up to the doctors and say "I feel like sh1t. I just ate a bat"?

Nobody recognises that the Cubans have have had a cure (Interferon Alpha 2b) since the 1980's and that they moved into China, Korwa, Singapore and now Italy.
And those countries are now stabilising.

Why is it a stretch of the imagination that the COVID-19 virus is man-made rather than a naturally occuring organism?

Special Wuhanian Bats. They use sonar to travel and are seemingly scrumptious with honey, ginger, chili and garlic. Some sort of snake combination has led to an abominable virus, which is deadly. Just add a bit of soy and mustard.

The truth is out there.



Would you fancy a bit of roasted Chiroptera yourself?

Dohnjoe

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Do people really think that this virus was released because someone ate a bat?

Yes.

The Nal

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Business Post reckons we are all going to get our phones tracked.

They alluded to this in the Zeitgeist movie, albeit they were talking about microchips. It does not take much of a stretch to see where this is going.

https://www.businesspost.ie/

https://www.businesspost.ie/health/phone-tracking-app-set-to-be-used-as-next-step-to-fight-covid-19-f0ebedaf

I am not a techy. However if we are to believe Edward Snowden this tech is already available on a standard smart phone? No idea myself, but if anyone could clarify?

Yeah its doable. Its a good idea too. Basically download the app, if you come in contact with someone else who has the app and has the virus then you need to isolate/be tested.

You're already being "tracked" by load of apps anyway. Go to google maps on your phone. They know where you are.

King Mob

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Do people really think that this virus was released because someone ate a bat?

Seriously?

Why is it hard to believe exactly?

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Do people eat bats normally? And if they do why wasn't this virus unleashed years if not centuries ago?

Finally how does anyone know that it was unleashed because someone ate a bat? Did someone just rock up to the doctors and say "I feel like sh1t. I just ate a bat"?

The going hypothesis isn't that the virus emerged because some one ate a bat. That's a misrepresention.

The idea is that the virus emerged after someone ate, or came into contact with a bat or bats who had the virus, and this particular strain of the virus had mutated in a way that allowed it to infect and spread between humans.

This is how many viruses arose.

As for how they know it was bats, well:
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.01.22.914952v2

Since the SARS outbreak 18 years ago, a large number of severe acute respiratory syndrome related coronaviruses (SARSr-CoV) have been discovered in their natural reservoir host, bats. Previous studies indicated that some of those bat SARSr-CoVs have the potential to infect humans.

...

Furthermore, it was found that nCoV-2019 is 96% identical at the whole genome level to a bat coronavirus. The pairwise protein sequence analysis of seven conserved non-structural proteins show that this virus belongs to the species of SARSr-CoV.

Questions like these are great. But people should actually try and find the answers before leaping to rather silly conspiracy theories.

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why is it a stretch of the imagination that the COVID-19 virus is man-made rather than a naturally occuring organism?

Because there's no evidence for this and no one can present a rational theory for how and why it was made and released that also has any evidence.

Also, no man made virus has been shown to exist, so it can't just be assumed that one can exist.

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Nobody recognises that the Cubans have have had a cure (Interferon Alpha 2b) since the 1980's and that they moved into China, Korwa, Singapore and now Italy.
And those countries are now stabilising.

Do you have a source for this?

Dohnjoe

The Nal wrote: »

Yeah its doable. Its a good idea too. Basically download the app, if you come in contact with someone else who has the app and has the virus then you need to isolate/be tested.

You're already being "tracked" by load of apps anyway. Go to google maps on your phone. They know where you are.

Pretty good idea.

But as mentioned a major drawback is your TD will know exactly where you are, they'll obviously be granted full access (their "elite" status automatically entitles them to this), and who knows what fiendishly evil schemes they will get up to in order to pursue their relentless goal to implement a full 1984 style police/military state

hhmmm?

Haven't read through all this but I do think there's something more to all this. It's all part of the bigger plan of controlling the masses. They are scaring us into believing this lockdown is for our own good. Even when I was in Dunnes shopping yesterday I noticed there was a government announcement every few minutes telling everybody to stay safe, keep distance and stay at home. It felt too false. I felt like an animal in a zoo or even like I was a "product" on one of the shelves. I can tell Leo is not being honest with us. When I watch him speak it's as if I know he is scared. I can see it in he's face that he is being told what to do. Has he been given a promised loan from the Rothschilds that he knows me can use to cover the expenses he will generate with his measures.

Dohnjoe

hhmmm? wrote: »

Haven't read through all this but I do think there's something more to all this. It's all part of the bigger plan of controlling the masses. They are scaring us into believing this lockdown is for our own good. Even when I was in Dunnes shopping yesterday I noticed there was a government announcement every few minutes telling everybody to stay safe, keep distance and stay at home. It felt too false. I felt like an animal in a zoo or even like I was a "product" on one of the shelves. I can tell Leo is not being honest with us. When I watch him speak it's as if I know he is scared. I can see it in he's face that he is being told what to do. Has he been given a promised loan from the Rothschilds that he knows me can use to cover the expenses he will generate with his measures.

The common theme.

Timberrrrrrrr

hhmmm? wrote: »

Haven't read through all this but I do think there's something more to all this. It's all part of the bigger plan of controlling the masses. They are scaring us into believing this lockdown is for our own good. Even when I was in Dunnes shopping yesterday I noticed there was a government announcement every few minutes telling everybody to stay safe, keep distance and stay at home. It felt too false. I felt like an animal in a zoo or even like I was a "product" on one of the shelves. I can tell Leo is not being honest with us. When I watch him speak it's as if I know he is scared. I can see it in he's face that he is being told what to do. Has he been given a promised loan from the Rothschilds that he knows me can use to cover the expenses he will generate with his measures.

If course he is scared, this has the potential to kill us all! Or do you think there is someone pointing a gun at him ensuring he does as he is told? :rolleyes:

IAMAMORON

hhmmm? wrote: »

Haven't read through all this but I do think there's something more to all this. It's all part of the bigger plan of controlling the masses. They are scaring us into believing this lockdown is for our own good. Even when I was in Dunnes shopping yesterday I noticed there was a government announcement every few minutes telling everybody to stay safe, keep distance and stay at home. It felt too false. I felt like an animal in a zoo or even like I was a "product" on one of the shelves. I can tell Leo is not being honest with us. When I watch him speak it's as if I know he is scared. I can see it in he's face that he is being told what to do. Has he been given a promised loan from the Rothschilds that he knows me can use to cover the expenses he will generate with his measures.

Yes, I can really see the billionaire coven who have instigated a toxic global pandemic to annihilate half the planet deciding to include the deposed Taoiseach of the Republic of Ireland in their sinister plan. It makes sense.

It just couldn't work without him, could it? Look... they are both using the same secret handwave....

Mic 1972

hhmmm? wrote: »

Haven't read through all this but I do think there's something more to all this. It's all part of the bigger plan of controlling the masses. They are scaring us into believing this lockdown is for our own good. Even when I was in Dunnes shopping yesterday I noticed there was a government announcement every few minutes telling everybody to stay safe, keep distance and stay at home. It felt too false. I felt like an animal in a zoo or even like I was a "product" on one of the shelves. I can tell Leo is not being honest with us. When I watch him speak it's as if I know he is scared. I can see it in he's face that he is being told what to do. Has he been given a promised loan from the Rothschilds that he knows me can use to cover the expenses he will generate with his measures.

if this was all a plan then why high profile politicians are getting sick too?

IAMAMORON

Mic 1972 wrote: »

if this was all a plan then why high profile politicians are getting sick too?

Red Herrings. They are multiplying like the virus.

Although Leo hasn't caught it yet so it definitely rules him out.

It is rumoured in certain circles that the code name for the conspiracy is called "The Red Herring".

hhmmm?

Don't know why I'm being criticized about this. It's a conspiracy thread about the coronavirus. If you're not here to talk conspiracy then I suggest fcuking off back to whatever CrossFit or cycling thread you usually frequent.

Cheerful Spring2

I highlight this again because it is overlooked study out of Taiwan.

National Taiwan University (NTU) public health researcher Fang Chi-tai said yesterday as he cited the opinions of other researchers.
Analyses of COVID-19 have shown that is has a 96 percent genetic similarity with an RaTG13 bat virus at the institute, he said.

His next opinion. Possible virus genome changes that only man could have done?

A French research team that examined the gene sequence of COVID-19 has discovered that it has four more amino acids than other coronaviruses,

Mutations of viruses that occur naturally only result in small, singular changes.
One would not normally see a naturally mutated virus suddenly take on four amino acids!
While such a large mutation is not impossible, it is highly unlikely

IAMAMORON

hhmmm? wrote: »

Don't know why I'm being criticized about this. It's a conspiracy thread about the coronavirus. If you're not here to talk conspiracy then I suggest fcuking off back to whatever CrossFit or cycling thread you usually frequent.

Agreed, but implicating Irish political drools in global matters simply lacks imagination.

If you said that Mary Lou was involved in a private orgy sex ring in Washington DC called the " Shamrock Secret".... I might possibly believe you.

Cheerful Spring2

China might just be where the first case of Coronavirus was detected, but it is not the main place wherein the virus originated. This is what a leading doctor in Italy confessed in a report saying that there's a possibility that COVID-19 did not originate in Wuhan, China but somewhere else-- or maybe in Italy itself.

According to a report in South China Morning Post, "strange pneumonia" cases were already reported back in Nov. in the northern part of Italy-- precisely in Lombardy. This was months before China had an outbreak with the virus starting on Dec.

As mentioned by one of the country's leading doctors named Giuseppe Remuzzi, the director of the Mario Negri Institute for Pharmacological Research in Milan, he said that there were already few cases in Italy of this unknown virus that has been severe for older people in Nov. up to Dec.

Remuzzi said that there might be chances that the virus already circulated the world even before China declared an outbreak with the viral disease.

"They [general practitioners] remember having seen very strange pneumonia, very severe, particularly in old people in December and even November," said him. "This means that the virus was circulating, at least in [the northern region of] Lombardy and before we were aware of this outbreak occurring in China."

The doctor explained that only these past few weeks, wherein he discovered that there were cases similar to Coronavirus were being treated in the country by various Italian doctors.

Italian doctors already explained that the first infection in Lombardy was the result of an Italian coming into contact with a Chinese person in late January.

techtimes.com/articles/248263/20200323/coronavirus-possibly-come-china-italy-first-detected-strange-pneumonia-months-wuhan-outbreak.htm

Cheerful Spring2

Adriano Decarli, an epidemiologist and medical statistics professor at the University of Milan, said there had been a “significant” increase in the number of people hospitalized for pneumonia and flu in the areas of Milan and Lodi between October and December last year.

He told Reuters he could not give exact figures but “hundreds” more people than usual had been taken to hospital in the last three months of 2019 in those areas - two of Lombardy’s worst hit cities - with pneumonia and flu-like symptoms, and some of those had died.

Decarli is reviewing the hospital records and other clinical details of those cases, including people who later died at home, to try to understand whether the new coronavirus epidemic had already spread to Italy back then.

“We want to know if the virus was already here in Italy at the end of 2019, and - if yes - why it remained undetected for a relatively long period so that we could have a clearer picture in case we have to face a second wave of the epidemic,” he said.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing/italian-scientists-investigate-possible-earlier-emergence-of-coronavirus-idUSKBN21D2IG

October- Covid 19 means the virus came from somewhere else and not China. China reported its first case in early december. So that spread likely started in Nov.

Cheerful Spring2

Decarli said once his research was concluded, local health authorities might decide to request authorisation to exhume bodies of people with suspect symptoms.

I hope they do let's get to bottom of this mystery.

Girly Gal

The virus almost certainly started in China. It's very had to know when the virus actually started as the Chinese are very selective as to what information they release and the numbers they are quoting can't be taken at face value as they are likely to be much higher.

Cheerful Spring2

Girly Gal wrote: »

The virus almost certainly started in China. It's very had to know when the virus actually started as the Chinese are very selective as to what information they release and the numbers they are quoting can't be taken at face value as they are likely to be much higher.

Wuhan outbreak started in Dec. Everyone in the world agrees on that.
Italian outbreak was January.
If the Italians show they had cases as far back as October, it not a Chinese virus.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I highlight this again because it is overlooked study out of Taiwan.

National Taiwan University (NTU) public health researcher Fang Chi-tai said yesterday as he cited the opinions of other researchers.
Analyses of COVID-19 have shown that is has a 96 percent genetic similarity with an RaTG13 bat virus at the institute, he said.

His next opinion. Possible virus genome changes that only man could have done?

A French research team that examined the gene sequence of COVID-19 has discovered that it has four more amino acids than other coronaviruses,

Mutations of viruses that occur naturally only result in small, singular changes.
One would not normally see a naturally mutated virus suddenly take on four amino acids!
While such a large mutation is not impossible, it is highly unlikely

I've read frequently that scientists believe this virus couldn't be man-made, can provide dozens of links supporting that. So it's likely you are scouring and cherry-picking information to suit a conspiracy narrative you often carry into these situations (which coincidentally matches your personal hobby)

Dohnjoe

hhmmm? wrote: »

Don't know why I'm being criticized about this. It's a conspiracy thread about the coronavirus. If you're not here to talk conspiracy then I suggest fcuking off back to whatever CrossFit or cycling thread you usually frequent.

It's a public forum. If people come in here seeking validation for baseless conspiracies they shouldn't act surprised when it gets questioned.

It's amazing how much this has to be pointed out.

Also, Corona virus is pretty serious. I have no idea why people want to indulge in creating unfounded disinformation about it, I don't see the "fun" in that. It's pretty absurd when you think about it.

Girly Gal

You could well be right, but, how can we be sure when it started in Wuhan, we only have the Chinese word for this. If it started in Italy, should we not have seen cases in other European countries earlier, also, how did it jump from Italy to Wuhan without spreading to other European countries as well?

Ipso

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Do people really think that this virus was released because someone ate a bat?


Seriously?


Do people eat bats normally? And if they do why wasn't this virus unleashed years if not centuries ago?


Finally how does anyone know that it was unleashed because someone ate a bat? Did someone just rock up to the doctors and say "I feel like sh1t. I just ate a bat"?

Nobody recognises that the Cubans have have had a cure (Interferon Alpha 2b) since the 1980's and that they moved into China, Korwa, Singapore and now Italy.
And those countries are now stabilising.

Why is it a stretch of the imagination that the COVID-19 virus is man-made rather than a naturally occuring organism?

They don’t have to eat them if they are carriers. Anyway, it’s not as if it’s the first time diseases passed from animals.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/21426-global-zoonoses-diseases-hotspots.html

Cheerful Spring2

Girly Gal wrote: »

You could well be right, but, how can we be sure when it started in Wuhan, we only have the Chinese word for this. If it started in Italy, should we not have seen cases in other European countries earlier, also, how did it jump from Italy to Wuhan without spreading to other European countries as well?

Wuhan an international city in Hubei province and hundreds of thousands of overseas tourists visit this city, every year, and thousands of civilians from across Europe, and the US, and elsewhere, work and live in the City. Many online videos were distributed showing the conditions in Wuhan when the virus outbreak started.  As well the Chinese statistics looked suspicious at the start, when the west had little to know information about the disease, but now if you, look, the progress of the virus in diverse countries (start of 2020) it’s the practically the same

Every country has had a ( high number of infection cases and low number of deaths)  Least there we can tell China not deceiving.China opened up they may have had a case in Nov a 55-year-old, but that’s not verified. Since he had no contact with wet markets the info discounted by the west media. 

We likewise know from events in the US, a number of people listed as dying from the flu, were wrongly misdiagnosed  and turned out they had actually the virus Covid-19. 

Italy is now checking the medical records of the old people who died in Oct, Nov, Dec in Lombardy Italy. The noted the flu surge was unusually high! It possible Italy had a tiny cluster of patients and then just got out of control in Jan when  China outbreak started? The more outbreaks you have the more likely the disease will spread further outside the borders of a country. 

Girly Gal

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Wuhan an international city in Hubei province and hundreds of thousands of overseas tourists visit this city, every year, and thousands of civilians from across Europe, and the US, and elsewhere, work and live in the City. Many online videos were distributed showing the conditions in Wuhan when the virus outbreak started.  As well the Chinese statistics looked suspicious at the start, when the west had little to know information about the disease, but now if you, look, the progress of the virus in diverse countries (start of 2020) it’s the practically the same

Every country has had a ( high number of infection cases and low number of deaths)  Least there we can tell China not deceiving.China opened up they may have had a case in Nov a 55-year-old, but that’s not verified. Since he had no contact with wet markets the info discounted by the west media. 

We likewise know from events in the US, a number of people listed as dying from the flu, were wrongly misdiagnosed  and turned out they had actually the virus Covid-19. 

Italy is now checking the medical records of the old people who died in Oct, Nov, Dec in Lombardy Italy. The noted the flu surge was unusually high! It possible Italy had a tiny cluster of patients and then just got out of control in Jan when  China outbreak started? The more outbreaks you have the more likely the disease will spread further outside the borders of a country. 

Still doesn't explain why other European countries weren't infected earlier if it originated in Italy, surely it would have crossed into neighbouring countries earlier, yet it was able to transfer to Wuhan from Italy, which would has less direct transfer of people.