Domestic Solar PV Quotes 2020

Caspero

JJ O Malley wrote: »

I'm struggling to understand why I'd get batteries if surplus can be sold to the grid. Why not use ther grid as a battery selling surplus and buy back as needed. Ive got a couple of quotes and found the batteries are very expensive. Maybe better off paying for more panels and saving a few grand.

I'm looking at a new system and agree with this...particularly if you have an EV which of course has a battery inside it...far larger than the ones generally installed in houses. So either feed back to the grid or to the car would be the most rational thing.....except that the grants are larger if you get a battery with your PV system.

Which brings up the question: What is the smallest and cheapest battery, or alternatively the most resalable battery that you can get away with while still meeting the grant criteria?

JJ O Malley

mp3guy wrote: »

If you get a lot of power cuts batteries make more sense.

Thanks for replying. We dont get many power cuts so wouldn't really feature in my decision. Also based on the responses it sounds complicated. Well above my head anyhow!!

Thanks
John

JJ O Malley

unkel wrote: »

You are not quite right there. Most SEAI subsidised PV installs with battery do have an emergency power output as standard. When the power goes, that output will have power. Obviously the power in your house will not be automatically restored (unless you have some sort of cut over system as you say)

I have wired the EPS on my outdoor battery inverter to a waterproof outdoor single socket. Last time the power went (for well over an hour) here in Lucan, I hooked up an extension lead to it and plugged my fridge freezer into it. At the same time I took out my eBike battery, hooked up a 48V inverter to that and made diner in the oven (air fryer)

And I connected a 25m cable to the inverter in the frunk of my EV permanently connected to my car's battery all the way up to my attic so I could still run my PC (working from home)

Ha, pretty inventive. I'd have ordered a chinese, taken the day off and gone fishing ðŸ˜.

Cheers
John

JJ O Malley

Caspero wrote: »

I'm looking at a new system and agree with this...particularly if you have an EV which of course has a battery inside it...far larger than the ones generally installed in houses. So either feed back to the grid or to the car would be the most rational thing.....except that the grants are larger if you get a battery with your PV system.

Which brings up the question: What is the smallest and cheapest battery, or alternatively the most resalable battery that you can get away with while still meeting the grant criteria?

Good question. I'm surprised by the battery prices, suspect u would lose money if selling on the battery. Worth finding out anyhow. Let me know if you figure it out!

Cheers
John

JJ O Malley

Sir Liamalot wrote: »

Glass glass? Is it a conservatory roof yer installing? More weight, more expense. Nah.

I'm a in the no-battery camp. Probably a sore subject at the mo so I'll shut up.

Thanks for the reply. I just read that glass-glass is more robust over time. I've no clue if this is accurate.

If anyone could recommend a company in the west or even nationwide who services the weat I'd appreciate it. Looking for good value obviously 😊.

Cheers
John

AndyBoBandy

Hello Folks, Complete Noob here when it comes to Solar PV, but we really want to get it installed, and it's quite a big thread to go through.

Initially we are looking at the Electric Ireland offer, which is a 2kWp set up with 6 panels I believe, for €5,200 (with €1,800 grant available, bringing the cost down to €3,600, with a diverter to the immersion).

When they say a 2kWp system, is that what it would produce on an average day? 2kW?

Is the Electric Ireland offer worthwhile? or is it a load of crap, just to get folk onto the 'Free solar Electricity' bandwagon?, but not actually worth it??

We are both home based, so have 3 computers running during the day, as well as other ancillary items like Fridge, TV's, Smart lights etc...
Would 2kWp be sufficient, or should we be looking to go larger?

The plan would be to install a battery down the line for any excess generated solar and night rate charging.

garo

The EI offer is crap. Run away from it.



How much daytime energy do you use? You want approximately 1-1.5 kWp installed for every 1000 daytime units you use in a year. Solar output varies considerably based on time of the year (and the tilt and orientation of your panels). For instance my 4.8kW E/W split system can produce 30kWh in a day in high summer but maxes out at 2kWh in the middle of winter.


The only reason to go for a battery is that you get a 1200 Euro additional grant. Always ask for quotes with and without battery. Also to get a grant your house must be rated C or better and be built before 2011 (MPRN date).

AndyBoBandy

When you say daytime units, and you talking about how many kWh I'd use during the day in a year? a very quick look at my meter tells me I've used roughly 7kWh per day over the last 3 weeks...

The house was a C3 when we bought back in 2014, and have converted the attic, and installed a new composite hall door since then which will have improved the rating. Will I still need a fresh BER cert for SEAI application?

slave1

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

..Will I still need a fresh Bar cert for SEAI application?

Yes, part of the grant approval process, even if you were A3 prior, new cert required

JJ O Malley

slave1 wrote: »

Yes, part of the grant approval process, even if you were A3 prior, new cert required

Hi there. Any idea of the cost for this certification?

Cheers
John

garo

A BER ranges from 180-300. Obviously depends on size of the house. An apartment might be cheaper still.

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When they say a 2kWp system, is that what it would produce on an average day? 2kW?

No, its the max the system is designed to generate... so its a best case scenario, more or less.

In reality, as garo said, it will vary wildly day to day as to how much you actually generate.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

We are both home based, so have 3 computers running during the day, as well as other ancillary items like Fridge, TV's, Smart lights etc...
Would 2kWp be sufficient, or should we be looking to go larger?

The plan would be to install a battery down the line for any excess generated solar and night rate charging.

With both of you at home and you have an EV you should consider diverting the excess to the EV rather than investing in a battery (which will have a 15yr+ payback time).

The biggest battery you will ever need "is coming soon" in the form of a Feed-in-tariff. News of that expected in Jun 2021 and you'd need one of the new smart meters to avail of it whenever it happens... it could be a few years out but its highly likely at this stage.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

The house was a C3 when we bought back in 2014, and have converted the attic, and installed a new composite hall door since then which will have improved the rating. Will I still need a fresh BER cert for SEAI application?

A new BER will be required as far as I know. They basically want to know what the BER is AFTER you install Solar PV.

You mention 2014... was the house build before 2011? Thats a must have requirement.

garo

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

When you say daytime units, and you talking about how many kWh I'd use during the day in a year? a very quick look at my meter tells me I've used roughly 7kWh per day over the last 3 weeks...

The house was a C3 when we bought back in 2014, and have converted the attic, and installed a new composite hall door since then which will have improved the rating. Will I still need a fresh BER cert for SEAI application?

Yes I meant daytime units. I assume you have day/night rates. If you are using 7kWh per day average - I assume you don't have electric showers or hob? - and ideally you'd want a longer time average, you are looking for a 3-4kW system. Get 4kW, maximize the grant because marginal cost of additional panels is low and you can also charge the car if you have a Zappi. (Cue unkel saying it will never pay for itself :rolleyes:)

Of course if you are solely motivated by payback time and are not willing to tolerate a slightly longer payback, you may be better off going with a smaller system without a battery. But as always, get quotes from a number of installers and for a number of options from each.

You will need a new BER. Many installers include it in the package.

AndyBoBandy

KCross wrote: »

You mention 2014... was the house build before 2011? Thats a must have requirement.

Yep, we bought 2nd hand, house was built circa 1999

AndyBoBandy

garo wrote: »

Yes I meant daytime units. I assume you have day/night rates. If you are using 7kWh per day average - I assume you don't have electric showers or hob? - and ideally you'd want a longer time average, you are looking for a 3-4kW system. Get 4kW, maximize the grant because marginal cost of additional panels is low and you can also charge the car if you have a Zappi. (Cue unkel saying it will never pay for itself :rolleyes:)

Of course if you are solely motivated by payback time and are not willing to tolerate a slightly longer payback, you may be better off going with a smaller system without a battery. But as always, get quotes from a number of installers and for a number of options from each.

You will need a new BER. Many installers include it in the package.

We have a Day/Night meter, no electric shower or Electric Hob (Electric Oven, though when used, would be evenings only)

We do have an EV, so it's a very good shout of diverting the excess to the car rather than the grid (until at leat FIT happens), would mean swapping out the current charger with a Zappi. But this might not be an option every day so the battery is still appealing so as not to waste a drop - also then we'd have teh option of charging a battery at night rate to help out during daytime in the winter months...

We're not really motivated by instant payback period (I think). We're happy to pay up front for the right system to reduce our overall long term costs. i.e. We both earn decent money now, so we want to do as much as we can now to reduce our outgoings in the future when we've perhaps taken our feet off the gas work wise.... make hay while the sun shines.

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

We do have an EV, so it's a very good shout of diverting the excess to the car rather than the grid (until at leat FIT happens), would mean swapping out the current charger with a Zappi.

Not just Zappi but it is the better known/tested one at this stage.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

But this might not be an option every day so the battery is still appealing so as not to waste a drop - also then we'd have teh option of charging a battery at night rate to help out during daytime in the winter months...

Its a catch-22 in some ways.... yes, you wont waste a drop by storing it yourself (if you get a large enough battery) but you are paying up front for every one of those drops by paying for the battery. You need to carefully examine the numbers and decide if you are just fooling yourself or not.

i.e. do you want to give your money to a battery manufacturer with a 15yr payback crossing your fingers that it will last long enough to give you a payback not to mind to be quids in.... or do you want to take your chances and cross your fingers for a FiT in a few short years where it will probably cost you nothing extra and you start to get paid for your excess (money in, not money out).... i made up my mind on that a while back.... people still seem obsessed with batteries in here though. Its your call but look at the numbers.

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

... also then we'd have teh option of charging a battery at night rate to help out during daytime in the winter months...

That has been discussed before as well and its not worth it and reducing the life span of the battery, which is limited by its cycles (charge/discharge).

AndyBoBandy

True, it's a much sounder option to use the car as the storage battery, and then hope FIT happens. (I can then truly say that my driving is powered by the sun).

Worst case it's going to cost me the price of a Zappi, and the car would be plugged in during the day probably 90% of the time anyway...

Seeing as it's a fairly big thread, what's the net ballpark figure for a 3-4kWp installation people are seeing?

KCross

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Worst case it's going to cost me the price of a Zappi, and the car would be plugged in during the day probably 90% of the time anyway...

You can offset that cost by selling the one you have.
The Zappi aint cheap so its unfortunate that you have already drawn that grant... it will make payback longer but keep your eye on the ball... FiT!

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Seeing as it's a fairly big thread, what's the net ballpark figure for a 3-4kWp installation people are seeing?

You should be aiming for €4500 after grant for a non-battery system for 4.2kWp.

kanuseeme

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

True, it's a much sounder option to use the car as the storage battery, and then hope FIT happens. (I can then truly say that my driving is powered by the sun).

Worst case it's going to cost me the price of a Zappi, and the car would be plugged in during the day probably 90% of the time anyway...

Seeing as it's a fairly big thread, what's the net ballpark figure for a 3-4kWp installation people are seeing?

I know a battery is expensive, but I can see its value in grid down situation,
something just to keep the food from spoiling in the freezer, powering a few lights ,tv internet etc.

Something to keep the kids occupied would pay for itself in 5 minutes IMO.

JJ O Malley

homewardbound11 wrote: »

I’m only starting out on this embark but can anyone please PM me suppliers/ installers in the west ( Mayo) . I’ve a large east west roof that can be used . As for options I’m completely bamboozeled with all the terminology . All i know is from unkel is to install as many panels as I can . After that I’ve a lot to learn .

Hi there. Could you please send me on details of a recommended supplier/installer.

Kind regards
John

KCross

kanuseeme wrote: »

I know a battery is expensive, but I can see its value in grid down situation,
something just to keep the food from spoiling in the freezer, powering a few lights ,tv internet etc.

Grid down means Solar down also unfortunately (if you are using the SEAI grant).

If you are lucky and the battery is full when the grid goes down it will give you a few hours of power on a separate circuit off the inverter.... it wont power the house so your internet, tv's etc will all die as soon as the power is cut.

kanuseeme wrote: »

Something to keep the kids occupied would pay for itself in 5 minutes IMO.

Indeed! Memories of Storm Ophelia come flooding back!

graememk

KCross wrote: »

Indeed! Memories of Storm Ophelia come flooding back!

If you do have the correct wiring done to switchover your critical loads etc there is usually plenty of warning for them storms so you could get your battery fully charged off the grid.

Which would be at extra cost over and above the cost of the standard install.

That being said, with the token 2.4kwh battery you could run the essentials only, and lock the freezer door shut


Being near the coast, we get plenty of storms battering us, the number of times the grid has gone down is very low, maybe once a year and its usually only for the night. maybe its natural selection, all the dodgy poles get taken out quickly

DrPhilG

For anyone with a Solis inverter and the backup option, can I simply wire that backup to a plug and then run an extension off that in the even of a cut?

With a 4.8kWh battery (if full) I could run the essentials off it for quite a while. And by essentials, I mean the TV and sky box lol. They are both plugged in at the opposite end of the attic from the inverter so an extension lead would get me powered up for a few hours.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

For anyone with a Solis inverter and the backup option, can I simply wire that backup to a plug and then run an extension off that in the even of a cut?

That would be the idea, yea.

Just ensuring you dont overload it.

DrPhilG

Just contacted Airtricity online chat to ask about renewal rates. Useless sods.

"We can't discuss renewals online, you have to call us."

Sod off. I'm a busy man, I don't have time to be fannying around calling companies. That's what the Internet is for. (paraphrased of course)

"I can get you a ring back in 7 days to discuss"

7 days???

"you can renew online with the standard rates".

Which defeats the purpose of contacting you asking to price match...

Thoroughly useless service.

Anyway quick question, what kind of breakdown are people getting for day/night rates post solar? I normally base my answers on Bonkers.ie on using about 65% on night rate as I was scheduling washer, dryer, dishwasher all on night rate.

But now for 6-7 months of the year I'm doing almost all of that usage on day rate so my nighttime consumption drops to about 4kWh from the previous average of about 15kWh per night. The only increase from that average is car charging, which at worst would be about 60kWh a week but quite often less than half that if I'm getting excess on a good day or haven't driven as much that day.

From a quick glance at the figures I only charged at home 5 times in August and 6 in September. Twice so far in October.

Bonkers is throwing out the likes of Bright with 17c day and 10c night but with a standing charge of €120 rather than Energia with 14.2c day and 6.8c night but a standing charge of €288.

KCross

DrPhilG wrote: »

Anyway quick question, what kind of breakdown are people getting for day/night rates post solar? I normally base my answers on Bonkers.ie on using about 65% on night rate as I was scheduling washer, dryer, dishwasher all on night rate.

But now for 6-7 months of the year I'm doing almost all of that usage on day rate so my nighttime consumption drops to about 4kWh from the previous average of about 15kWh per night. The only increase from that average is car charging, which at worst would be about 60kWh a week but quite often less than half that if I'm getting excess on a good day or haven't driven as much that day.

From a quick glance at the figures I only charged at home 5 times in August and 6 in September. Twice so far in October.

Bonkers is throwing out the likes of Bright with 17c day and 10c night but with a standing charge of €120 rather than Energia with 14.2c day and 6.8c night but a standing charge of €288.

Not sure it matters Phil... just sign up to whoever is the cheapest.... and that currently is Energia with the rates you have posted.

The changes in your consumption with the addition of Solar shouldnt affect that decision.

DrPhilG

KCross wrote: »

Not sure it matters Phil... just sign up to whoever is the cheapest.... and that currently is Energia with the rates you have posted.

The changes in your consumption with the addition of Solar shouldnt affect that decision.

Sorry I engaged my brain and looked at that again. Maybe the day/night breakdown isn't as relevant, but the standing charge still makes it less straightforward.

Energia have more than double the annual standing charge.

So for a high use customer (which I was pre solar) the lowest unit rate is king.

But the extra €165 in standing charge that Energia charge would buy me over 1650 units at Bright's night rate.

I used over 12mWh in the year pre-solar. My estimate for the year after is about 7mWh.

DrPhilG

Yikes...

Glow Power are dropping their prices from November 1st.

Energia
14.22 day
6.82 night

Glow (now)
14.14 day
8.09 night

Glow (November)
14.81 day
5.07 night!

graememk

KCross wrote: »

Not sure it matters Phil... just sign up to whoever is the cheapest.... and that currently is Energia with the rates you have posted.

The changes in your consumption with the addition of Solar shouldnt affect that decision.

the change in consumption should effect the calculation, as the overall usage will be lower. but depends on how much lower you do end up going!

Energia are the cheapest rates when your using a lot of electricity, but when your usage is going lower, the lower standing charge will come into play

with 1500 day and 2000 night Bright has the edge but its only like 30 euro.

A tipping point according to my calculations is about 2000 day and 2500 night.

TLDR, there aint much in it.

graememk

DrPhilG wrote: »

I used over 12mWh in the year pre-solar. My estimate for the year after is about 7mWh.

With them numbers, Energia lol... or glow?

Edit:

Where you seeing that about glow, just went to their website,

Please note that due to increasing costs in distribution and supply, our supply charge and our kwh charge will increase by 4.8% on the 1st of November.