IAA Student Controller Program 2020

Speed_Alive

With the closing date of Jan 31st now passed, they are sending out emails currently.

This year there looks to be an additional online assessment prior to attending FEAST/DART.
Rumoured that the course will begin Sept 2020 or earlier. This will be the 4th intake in a couple of years.

How are people finding the online assessment?

Tristan100

I did the online assessment last night. I found it suspiciously easy, especially compared to the exam for Aer Lingus FPP.
Anyone else waiting on results now? How soon do we normally hear feedback?

Inquitus

My brother is in training for NATS in the UK, he's done his first year and now getting on the job training for the next few months. Decent salary and pension if you make it through, positions to applicants is a ridiculously low % mind.

Excited93

I did the online test the other day. Any one notice that there was no personality questions but there was in the practice ones from the link?

Also did anyone get a confirmation email that the online assessment was completed and received or do we just wait to hear?

Speed_Alive

The personality questions will come later in the process during the 'work strengths profiling' after the FEAST/DART
This initial selection assessment I imagine should indeed be 'easier' than the EI application assessment, as it is an initial screening. The FEAST/DART is where the real competition is. Best of luck all.

Excited93

I got my invitation email this morning for the FEAST test on the 25th feb! And then if I pass the DART in the afternoon! Did anyone else get one?

Tristan100

I got my invitation this morning also, for the 24th.
Can someone tell me, if I get a place on the course am I guaranteed a job on completion?

Inquitus

Tristan100 wrote: »

I got my invitation this morning also, for the 24th.
Can someone tell me, if I get a place on the course am I guaranteed a job on completion?

A job is not guaranteed on completion, but if they don't offer you a job you get the €85k worth of training for free, if they do offer you a job you have to work for 4 years or repay some or all of the amount depending on when you leave. Once qualified there are ample opportunities for an Air Traffic Controller, go work Tax Free in Dubai for instance.

faoiarvok

Tristan100 wrote: »

I got my invitation this morning also, for the 24th.
Can someone tell me, if I get a place on the course am I guaranteed a job on completion?

Strictly speaking, no, but they’re paying a sizeable sum to train people because they need them. Barring a massive downturn in the industry, you can expect to be hired if you successfully qualify (not something to be taken for granted, selection and training are very difficult and not everyone who starts training qualifies in the end)

Mckclaudia

Just wondering if there’s any practice sites for these FEAST or DART tests????

Inquitus

Inquitus

In seriousness:

https://feast-info.eurocontrol.int/

https://www.reddit.com/r/ATC/comments/971koj/dart_feast_2_training/

The reddit is full of good information.

faoiarvok

Mckclaudia wrote: »

Just wondering if there’s any practice sites for these FEAST or DART tests????

There is software that claims to emulate the tests for practice purposes, but the overwhelming majority of people who get selected didn’t use it. (Correlation, not necessarily causation)

The tests are designed to test aptitude not preparation, so no prior knowledge or practice is assumed. In a way, preparing for the test could be seen as cheating yourself, because even if your practice gets you through the tests, it will not help you at all during the training, and you could end up getting picked for a training course for which you are not suited and find it very hard to complete.

All that said, one thing that you may find useful for the tests (and which would stand to you if you were selected to train) is getting to know what compass headings look like. There’s a Eurocontrol game for that in the comments of the reddit post linked in a comment above. Aside from that, try to arrive well rested, fed and watered. Good luck!

arccosh

it's one of those tests where you have it or you don't...

ATC brains work in certain ways, it doesn't mean you're stupid or anything if you don't pass them,it just means your thought process and analytical thinking isn't the way that's required for ATC.

If you went to the hassle of studying, you're just cheating yourself really and you'll more than likely be found out during training, which depending who you do it with, could be quite costly.

Like what was mentioned above, have a good sleep, be well fed and watered and take the test somewhere isolated so it has your full attention. You have lots of time to do the practice rounds before the actual examined part.

arccosh

Are the IAA expecting students to fund themselves again?

Inquitus

arccosh wrote: »

Are the IAA expecting students to fund themselves again?

Yes it seems you would certainly have to have some sort of supplemental income, not sure €150 a week is enough to cover the cost of living for the duration.

Do I get paid while participating in the Student Controller Programme?

With effect from our Student Controller Programme 17 Class (SCP17), students will receive a student allowance of €150 per week for the duration of training, until the commencement of OJTI.

https://www.iaa.ie/careers/student-controller-programme/frequently-asked-questions

arccosh

that's rough...NATS is a far better alternative (or Eurocontrol if you're under 25)

horsey63

Just a thought, if you were offered to do FEAST by IAA and Eurocontrol in the next four weeks, which one would you pick ?

faoiarvok

horsey63 wrote: »

Just a thought, if you were offered to do FEAST by IAA and Eurocontrol in the next four weeks, which one would you pick ?

Probably do the test with the IAA to save the hassle of travelling to Maastricht. You can use the results of a FEAST test taken for one employer to apply at another that uses FEAST. Continue in both selection processes in the hopes that you’ll get an offer from both of them.

Edit: Actually, not sure if Eurocontrol use the Multipass test as well. If so, it might make sense to do it there, and use the results for the IAA

arccosh

do both...

If you pass both, head to Eurocontrol, come back to Ireland when qualified and stayed the minimum term (if you want to at that point).

YouEffOh

Anybody know what the salary is like for ATCs? I know it used to be really good, is that still the case?

Inquitus

YouEffOh wrote: »

Anybody know what the salary is like for ATCs? I know it used to be really good, is that still the case?

It pays very well, starting pay on qualification is @€;75k and it goes up with increments from there.

Basic starting salary for fully qualified controllers is just under €51,000. With a shift allowance included, it comes to nearly €75,000. The maximum basic pay for controllers, including shift allowance, is more than €112,000.

Figures this week from the Irish Aviation Authority (IAA) reveal that the top 10pc of Irish air traffic controllers in Ireland are earning between €170,000 to €230,000 a year, while the average pay is €160,000.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-controllers-get-double-the-us-pay-packet-26624932.html

faoiarvok

Inquitus wrote: »

It pays very well, starting pay on qualification is @€;75k and it goes up with increments from there

This source is not accurate for new entrants post-2011. The starting figure is significantly lower, though the highest points are fairly close.

I’m sure if you emailed the IAA, they’d send you an up to date pay scale.

horsey63

arccosh wrote: »

do both...

If you pass both, head to Eurocontrol, come back to Ireland when qualified and stayed the minimum term (if you want to at that point).

Unfortunately, you cant do both, as you're only allowed to sit a FEAST test once every two years, so following communication today, the decision is to sit the IAA ones and they can forward the results to Eurocontrol and see where things go from there

CoisFharraige

Inquitus wrote: »

It pays very well, starting pay on qualification is @€;75k and it goes up with increments from there.





https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/irish-controllers-get-double-the-us-pay-packet-26624932.html

Sorry... But i can tell you for a fact the starting salary is HALF that on completion of OJT.

faoiarvok

CoisFharraige wrote: »

Sorry... But i can tell you for a fact the starting salary is HALF that on completion of OJT.

To be fair, that €75k figure from the Indo article includes shift allowance, so when compared like for like, the current starting salary with shift allowance is close to 60% of that. So yeah, significantly lower but not quite half.

Excited93

Anyone hear of roughly when the training would start?

CoisFharraige

Excited93 wrote: »

Anyone hear of roughly when the training would start?

September ‘20

Inquitus

NATS is signifcantly, better the student weekly allowance is @ £350-£400 made up of a base salary of @£;17k and a weekly allowance of up to £60. This rises significantly when you graduate and get placed in a permanent job, you also qualify for matched pension contributions while training.

Flyingfast

How did everybody get on this year? Sat the FEAST and was invited back on the afternoon for the DART.

Did anybody hear back from their DART results who sat earlier this week or do you think we will all hear once they have reviewed all results?

I had a few close conflicts on the radar screen but managed to avoid collisions if they were possible at all.

Best of luck to all

Beersmith

They said we will hear next week via email. The must just be taking the top 10% of performers to the next round or something. I estimate about 300 took the DART this week so maybe 30-50 will make it?

Tristan100

Just got the email saying I'm through to the next stage. Very surprised as really found the DART difficult.
Anyone know how many they are progressing?

Beersmith

I got through also.

Inquitus

Well done to all who got through, my brother is currently doing his "Tower" control certification exams, ahead of being assigned to some NATS controlled airport in the UK for 10 months or so of on the job training, and local knowledge gathering, he's just over a year into it at this stage. Whatever Airport he is assigned to will become his home for the next 3 odd years of contracted service to offset the cost of the training invested in him.

Once that's completed he is free to look for better paid positions in the likes of Dubai etc. It is worth noting that to get a job in Dubai you need to be assigned to a top tier UK international airport, the smallest of those qualifying would be the likes of Bristol, Stansted, Luton. If you don't get lucky with the assignment it can make working globally more difficult in the future.

Paso Fino

Also received the go ahead for the next stage. Best of luck everyone!

Tristan100

Inquitus wrote: »

Well done to all who got through, my brother is currently doing his "Tower" control certification exams, ahead of being assigned to some NATS controlled airport in the UK for 10 months or so of on the job training, and local knowledge gathering, he's just over a year into it at this stage. Whatever Airport he is assigned to will become his home for the next 3 odd years of contracted service to offset the cost of the training invested in him.

Once that's completed he is free to look for better paid positions in the likes of Dubai etc. It is worth noting that to get a job in Dubai you need to be assigned to a top tier UK international airport, the smallest of those qualifying would be the likes of Bristol, Stansted, Luton. If you don't get lucky with the assignment it can make working globally more difficult in the future.

Which airports in Ireland qualify?

Inquitus

Tristan100 wrote: »

Which airports in Ireland qualify?

I know for sure Dublin & Belfast(but Belfast is NATS, at least for now), and probably Shannon and Cork too, I wouldn't imagine any of the rest do, but I am not an expert in this area.

Another point he raised thats interesting is they are doing away with "Tower" control at London City and doing it purely digitally from a remote location starting in a years time or so, presumably this may be the future to come in other places as well.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-39960993

It's also been already installed in Jersey

https://www.businesstraveller.com/business-travel/2019/05/21/jersey-becomes-first-british-airport-to-use-digital-remote-air-traffic-tower/

Singapore is also in on the action

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/changi-airport-remote-air-traffic-control-system-trial-9424732

Beersmith

Did I hear correct that the new tower in Dublins basement has this capability?

faoiarvok

Inquitus wrote: »

Another point he raised thats interesting is they are doing away with "Tower" control at London City and doing it purely digitally from a remote location starting in a years time or so, presumably this may be the future to come in other places as well.

IAA trialled this technology a few years ago, controlling Shannon & Cork from Dublin:

arccosh

Inquitus wrote: »

Once that's completed he is free to look for better paid positions in the likes of Dubai etc. It is worth noting that to get a job in Dubai you need to be assigned to a top tier UK international airport, the smallest of those qualifying would be the likes of Bristol, Stansted, Luton. If you don't get lucky with the assignment it can make working globally more difficult in the future.

I wouldn't fully agree with that...loads of ways out of a crappy placement... but what you usually find is crappy placements are handed to the people who would be happy with them. Not all controllers want or have the ability for the higher pressure roles.



Ask your brother about western radar in NATS.... cushy number, will max at about 60-80k. All you do is talk to planes looking for information service, so mostly pleasure flights, parachute jumping, a few flybe flights flying outside controlled airspace to avoid charges and the odd military stuff... 0700-2300 opening hours

Inquitus

arccosh wrote: »

I wouldn't fully agree with that...loads of ways out of a crappy placement... but what you usually find is crappy placements are handed to the people who would be happy with them. Not all controllers want or have the ability for the higher pressure roles.



Ask your brother about western radar in NATS.... cushy number, will max at about 60-80k. All you do is talk to planes looking for information service, so mostly pleasure flights, parachute jumping, a few flybe flights flying outside controlled airspace to avoid charges and the odd military stuff... 0700-2300 opening hours

He said that's FISO, and you don't need full controller qualifications for the role, also that it would be boring as feck! And would require up-skilling to go into proper ATC.

PinOnTheRight

Inquitus wrote: »

He said that's FISO, and you don't need full controller qualifications for the role, also that it would be boring as feck! And would require up-skilling to go into proper ATC.

Western Radar and FISO (London Information and Scottish Information) are different roles. Western Radar is indeed done by ATCOs and attracts higher money. FISO positions are done by licensed assistants but still has a rather generous salary.

arccosh

PinOnTheRight wrote: »

Western Radar and FISO (London Information and Scottish Information) are different roles. Western Radar is indeed done by ATCOs and attracts higher money. FISO positions are done by licensed assistants but still has a rather generous salary.

spot on... usually get en-route training

KizzyMonster

Are requests taken into consideration when they give out the job placements/job offers?
Ie Most people would probably want Dublin, but I would prefer Shannon. Will they take this into account? Or potentially could I get placed in Dublin while someone who doesn't want Shannon get placed at Shannon?

arccosh

from what i remember, a lot of the training is in Shannon,as it's the bigger centre.

Inquitus

arccosh wrote: »

from what i remember, a lot of the training is in Shannon,as it's the bigger centre.

From reading all the blurb on the IAA website all the initial training is in Shannon like the first 12 months odd.

Beersmith

Inquitus wrote: »

From reading all the blurb on the IAA website all the initial training is in Shannon like the first 12 months odd.

Is it 12 or 16 months in Shannon followed by on thr job training? They really aren't clear on the programme!

KizzyMonster

Yeah, I know the training is in Shannon but after that you're placed in either Dublin, Shannon or Cork

Speed_Alive

Approx 12 months in the training centre in Shannon, followed by approx 4 months on the job training at your location i.e Dublin Shannon or Cork
For on the job training you receive a fortnightly payment of 80% of the starting salary.

gentlegeorge

Just completed the online Work Strengths Profile - pretty straightforward.
Does anyone have an idea of how many candidates made it to this stage ? And what is next ?

Shanee.

gentlegeorge wrote: »

Just completed the online Work Strengths Profile - pretty straightforward.
Does anyone have an idea of how many candidates made it to this stage ? And what is next ?

What did it entail?