"The Battle of Brexit is over; the Battle of Irexit is about to begin"

Hamsterchops

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

The argument the English used was was that Scotland's economy would be decimated because they'd leave the EU.

The English?

Maybe you should blame Westminster.?

Podge_irl

eagle eye wrote: »

We have a flag, an anthem and a parliament in Europe. Powers are being slowly eroded from national parliaments to the European one.
It's pretty obvious when you look at what's going on and see what the plan is.

So does every other trade block.

https://twitter.com/EmporersNewC/status/967166196868141058?s=20]

The parliament was a function of people wanting more control over the EU and trying to correct a democratic deficit. Personally I don't see the need for it, but it was pushed for by those complaining about the status of the EU. It has nothing like the kind of power that the Irish Parliament has.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

We have a flag, an anthem and a parliament in Europe. Powers are being slowly eroded from national parliaments to the European one.
It's pretty obvious when you look at what's going on and see what the plan is.

Can you name one power that has been eroded?

Tacitus Kilgore

What we have here are full time contrarians being contrary.. the aul reliables..


Anyone who supports any form of Irexit is stupid. There is no room for "opinions" on it, because any opinion that ends with taking Ireland out of the EU is not based in any form of reality.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

Can you name one power that has been eroded?

Agriculture, Fisheries, environment and trade.

ancapailldorcha

eagle eye wrote: »

Agriculture, Fisheries, environment and trade.

How exactly? Instead of just posting buzzwords, how about you actually make a point?

eagle eye

Tacitus Kilgore wrote:

Anyone who supports any form of Irexit is stupid. There is no room for "opinions" on it, because any opinion that ends with taking Ireland out of the EU is not based in any form of reality.

I'm not in favour of leaving but the only reasons for me wanting to remain in it are financial.
I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons for wanting to leave but the big thing is money. We'd be broke and I and most people don't want that.

Hamsterchops

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The English?

Maybe you should blame Westminster.?

The basic lack of knowledge on some topics is quite alarming.

Bit cynical

Stay in the EEA and therefore single market with the EU whilst also free to trade with the UK and keep open border with the North.

Pablo Escobar

Hamsterchops wrote: »

The English?

Maybe you should blame Westminster.?

That was a very deliberate comment on my part. A generalisation, but deliberate.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Agriculture, Fisheries, environment and trade.

Can you give some examples of each?

AMKC

Leave the EU eh no thanks.

Even the British are regretting leaving the EU now and the more they are out of it the more change they will go bust and the IMF will have to bail poor blighty out again like it did in the 70s.

There is absolutely no good reason for us to leave the EU as our Economy is too small and we would go bust and end up in the IMF just like poor blighty.

listermint

eagle eye wrote: »

A daft idea to want to be Irish and not European?
I'm sorry but it's you that's not making any sense.

Sorry to put you on the spot but it's a bloody daft idea that being a European citizen impacts the level of Irish you are or feel.

Absolutely daft and you need a good reality check on that. It's such thoughts and prayers style nonsense that youd have to explain it with a diagram and crayons.

listermint

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

What we have here are full time contrarians being contrary.. the aul reliables..


Anyone who supports any form of Irexit is stupid. There is no room for "opinions" on it, because any opinion that ends with taking Ireland out of the EU is not based in any form of reality.

I don't think you understand the term contrarian. I'd suggest you might look it up though.

The idea that the broader thread looking for facts and figures in a discussion topic does not make it contrarian.

Those that rule their thought process on feelings, musings, things they noticed and items they saw with no basis in reality are by definition... contrarian

fly_agaric

listermint wrote: »

I don't think you understand the term contrarian. I'd suggest you might look it up though.

The idea that the broader thread looking for facts and figures in a discussion topic does not make it contrarian.

Those that rule their thought process on feelings, musings, things they noticed and items they saw with no basis in reality are by definition... contrarian

Hate to be that annoying pedant, but (afaik) contrarian really just means nothing more than going against the popular opinion or the conventional wisdom on a subject.

I think crank (an extreme form of contrarian who is obsessed by their belief and also has no evidence to support it) is a term that fits believers in or boosters of "Irexit" better !

CelticRambler

AllForIt wrote: »

I feel no more a connection with Germany than I do with New Zealand. If I'd go higher than Irish I'd go the whole hog and say I'm earth-ish.

But are you taking full advantage of your European freedoms; or are you living the quiet life on the island of Ireland, only leaving it when you get a cheap flight? And are you sure you don't have any connection with Germany? Do you celebrate a "traditional" Christmas, by any chance? Most of the "Irish" Christmas traditions come from Germany. Or did you ever read any fairy tales as a child - the Brothers Grimm, for example (Rapunzel, Hansel & Gretel, Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood, etc)? They're from Germany too.

You can opt out of feeling European and opt out of feeling any connection with another EU member state; that doesn't mean, though, that you're not connected - and probably due directly to the involvement of people around you.

Kermit.de.frog

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Anyone who supports any form of Irexit is stupid. There is no room for "opinions" on it

How dictatorial of you.

Irish unionists said the same thing before the anglo irish treaty as well and it didn't go down well for them.

Actually no one has advocated Ireland leave.

What is being advocated is an end to the never ending encroachment on our status as a sovereign nation state.

Hamsterchops

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

That was a very deliberate comment on my part. A generalisation, but deliberate.

So not just the British government, but 'The English' like you don't like or trust the English, and you have a problem with the English.

Wow, OK then, each to their own I guess.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Irish unionists said the same thing before the anglo irish treaty as well and it didn't go down well for them.

It literally could not have gone better for them.

Tacitus Kilgore

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How dictatorial of you.

Irish unionists said the same thing before the anglo irish treaty as well and it didn't go down well for them.

Actually no one has advocated Ireland leave.

What is being advocated is an end to the never ending encroachment on our status as a sovereign nation state.

I would say my post was more factual rather than dictatorial tbh, there is no room because there are no arguments for an Irexit. No tangible ones anyway.

"Sovereignty" is great, but you can't eat it.

Tacitus Kilgore

listermint wrote: »

I don't think you understand the term contrarian. I'd suggest you might look it up though.

The idea that the broader thread looking for facts and figures in a discussion topic does not make it contrarian.

Those that rule their thought process on feelings, musings, things they noticed and items they saw with no basis in reality are by definition... contrarian

Ah I do sir, I mean it in the sense that those who would argue for an Irexit are the same people who will argue with anyone about anything and always argue on the unpopular side of every argument because they are 'edgy' or whatnot.

I know you don't think Irexit is a good idea from your long standing and strong arguments in the Brexit threads and elsewhere, so no worries there.

Tacitus Kilgore

eagle eye wrote: »

I'm not in favour of leaving but the only reasons for me wanting to remain in it are financial.
I'm sure there's plenty of good reasons for wanting to leave but the big thing is money. We'd be broke and I and most people don't want that.

Ah there's plenty good reasons - ones for me are

Work and education standards
Environmental standards and controls
Regional funding - things like the few bob to the Gaeltacht etc and the assistance with the preservation of the Irish language
EU Agricultural schemes have been great for our farmers and our countryside
Road and infrastructure investments
Being inside the sm & cu yet being allowed to control our own taxes and destiny in a way that allows us to punch seriously above our weight in terms of attracting investment and high paid jobs.
Then there's money, we are infinitely richer inside the EU than we ever would be outside of it

Kermit.de.frog

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

Then there's money, we are infinitely richer inside the EU than we ever would be outside of it

How "rich" will we be do you think when Brussels sets our corporate taxes?

This will end in tears particularly on the continent. This is why you see the rise of right wing movements around the EU.

There should be no more stripping away of competences from national governments.

Tacitus Kilgore

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How "rich" will we be do you think when Brussels sets our corporate taxes?

This will end in tears particularly on the continent. This is why you see the rise of right wing movements around the EU.

There should be no more stripping away of competences from national governments.

When are they setting it? Why haven't they set it already?

fly_agaric

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

How "rich" will we be do you think when Brussels sets our corporate taxes?

This will end in tears particularly on the continent. This is why you see the rise of right wing movements around the EU.

There should be no more stripping away of competences from national governments.

If we start to detatch from the EU in an effort to keep tax advantages we will also become less useful to the Multinationals (hallowed be their names and the 12 percent rate).

The situation with the multinationals in Ireland is not stable. I think more conflicts over this (tax issue) & also their use and potential abuse of EU citizens data by the technology/internet ones (where we provide a sort of shield for them as they are all regulated here [or thats what is supposed to happen anyway]) are on the horizon.

Don't think it is worth distancing ourselves from the EU over it if push comes to shove and enough other countries want to give the EU more tax raising/setting powers or get stricter about how US or Chinese multinationals are using our data.

Also, could you explain what the (future) development of EU corporate tax policy has to do with the rise of the far right? I'm puzzled?
If anything the fact the countries like Ireland help with tax avoidance for their own benefit and decrease tax take + spending power for European governments overall would seem to me to be something that aids the growth of the far right in Europe!

CelticRambler

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

This will end in tears particularly on the continent. This is why you see the rise of right wing movements around the EU.

How do you explain the fall of the right wing movements around the EU, then? Because they've mostly fizzled out, run aground or (their leader have) come to their senses since the last round of elections - national and European Parliament - during which time nothing has changed in regard to corporation tax.

Could it be that they make a lot of noise, get a few votes, sometimes even win enough seats to look serious ... and then have to learn to compromise, not just with the majority of voters who didn't vote for them, but also with the representatives of the other countries in Europe?

AllForIt

CelticRambler wrote: »

But are you taking full advantage of your European freedoms; or are you living the quiet life on the island of Ireland, only leaving it when you get a cheap flight? And are you sure you don't have any connection with Germany? Do you celebrate a "traditional" Christmas, by any chance? Most of the "Irish" Christmas traditions come from Germany. Or did you ever read any fairy tales as a child - the Brothers Grimm, for example (Rapunzel, Hansel & Gretel, Cinderella, Little Red Riding Hood, etc)? They're from Germany too.

You can opt out of feeling European and opt out of feeling any connection with another EU member state; that doesn't mean, though, that you're not connected - and probably due directly to the involvement of people around you.

I posted this an hour before your reply to me lol
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=115393802&postcount=8
Bah Humbug

Geuze

eagle eye wrote: »

We have a flag, an anthem and a parliament in Europe. Powers are being slowly eroded from national parliaments to the European one.
It's pretty obvious when you look at what's going on and see what the plan is.

Yes, in some areas, national Govts and parliaments have decided to delegate decision-making power to the EU Parliament and the Council of Ministers.

Bear in mind we have MEPs.

And bear in mind that each Govt makes up the Council of Ministers.

The key decision-making institution, the Council of Ministers, is made up of 27 Ministers.

Not "faceless bureaucrats"

Dyr

Tacitus Kilgore wrote: »

"Sovereignty" is great, but you can't eat it.

There was a lot of that sentiment about in the 19th century until Irish people realised that a lack of sovereignty was why they were starving to death.

Tacitus Kilgore

Bambi wrote: »

There was a lot of that sentiment about in the 19th century until Irish people realised that a lack of sovereignty was why they were starving to death.

Are you conflating the rule of Ireland by the British empire in the 19th century with our current voluntary membership of a union of independent European countries?