"The Battle of Brexit is over; the Battle of Irexit is about to begin"

ChikiChiki

Irish public are overwhelmingly in favour of the EU. Last survey I seen had it at greater than 90% to remain as members.

It's not even a question really at this point. There is little doubt where we stand.

Jim2007

Tuco88 wrote: »

What are the views on the CANZUK trade deal? Did they not have a few of benefits from the commonwealth already?

Well first of all it is just a temporary roll over of the current terms. And the will NEVER get anything better. The CANEU deal has a clause in it to make sure of that.

If you ask me the EU is doomed anyway. If its only Ireland with a few others with Germany left id be happy anyway.

But then you don’t actually understand how the EU is preserved in mainland Europe and you are ignoring the regular surveys that demonstrate otherwise.

When you live in a town or a village scared by two world wars and more, you feel very differently about supporting the dissolution of the EU.

Jim2007

A big barrier to us leaving is what it would mean for our national debt, currently denominated in euro.

The real problem would be the not so obvious advantage we have out of trading in what to us is an undervalued currency at no expense to the exchequer.

If the Euro was to be dissolved, then Germany, Ireland and Austria would have the strongest currencies in Europe. All three have been strong exporters for decades and if you are continuously exporting more than you import it just the reality. Now Germany might have sufficient resources to defend the D-Mark, but Ireland and Austria would not. And it would be a disaster for the economy.

Kermit.de.frog

I was watching an interview with Dan Mulhall, our ambassador in the US, and I couldn't help but notice the prominence of the EU flag which was in the background. Irish flag could hardly be seen. That's supposedly our ambassador.

There is an article in today's Irish Times talking about EU sovereignty dealing with Brexit.

EU sovereignty?

This propaganda can be subtle but it's everywhere.

I am an Irish citizen. The EU is not my country. Brussels is not my capital.

I want an EU to exist for the benefit of countries in Europe.

I don't want a nation called Europe.

They are going too far and this is going to generate all sorts of upheaval sooner or later.

What's wrong with just having a trading block?

85603

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I was watching an interview with Dan Mulhall, our ambassador in the US, and I couldn't help but notice the prominence of the EU flag which was in the background. Irish flag could hardly be seen. That's supposedly our ambassador.

There is an article in today's Irish Times talking about EU sovereignty dealing with Brexit.

EU sovereignty?

This propaganda can be subtle but it's everywhere.

I am an Irish citizen. The EU is not my country. Brussels is not my capital.

I want an EU to exist for the benefit of countries in Europe.

I don't want a nation called Europe.

They are going too far and this is going to generate all sorts of upheaval sooner or later.

What's wrong with just having a trading block?

So a camera angle set you off?

seamus

Hamsterchops wrote: »

And pretend that Britain isn't between us and mainland Europe, like logic would dictate that we should trade (fresh food) in particular with our nearest neighbour instead of sending and receiving deliveries from beyond Britain.....

"Logically", if you're focussed purely on distance.

As the considerably smaller nation, logically it makes far more sense to diversify our trade so that we are not shackled to the decisions of our neighbour.

From this fresh food perspective Irexit may indeed make sense. Yes you can trade with Europe but Ireland and Britain are so close, not just geographically but culturally too (food types etc).

Ireland and Great Britain have been culturally diverging quite sharply since the early 2000s, IMHO.

I would certainly feel like I have more in common, culturally, with Germans or Italians, than many British.

Geuze

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

EU sovereignty?

This propaganda can be subtle but it's everywhere.

I am an Irish citizen. The EU is not my country. Brussels is not my capital.

I want an EU to exist for the benefit of countries in Europe.

I don't want a nation called Europe.

They are going too far and this is going to generate all sorts of upheaval sooner or later.

What's wrong with just having a trading block?

No need to worry.

I don't see any sign of a federation, or any appetite for it.

We have a Single Market since 1993.

Since 1999, we have a monetary union.

I think we now have a banking union?

Should we have elements of a fiscal union? Maybe, yes?

Leaving the EU would be economic and political suicide. Especially now in a world with a covid recession, and the growth of hostility between China, and the US. The Irish aren't that stupid.

In any case, now is the time to build closer links with European countries. Small nations without natural resources to export are going to be increasingly fragile as time goes by... At least, the EU gives us the illusion that we matter to the future evolution of the EU as a whole.

Britain has decided to commit suicide. Let them. We haven't needed them for decades, and frankly, they've shown that they've lost any real comprehension of strategic thinking, or logic about the needs in running a country in modern times. Their reaction to covid is a clear enough indication that Ireland shouldn't be aligning with them.

God help us though if a United Ireland goes through. Then we definitely will need the help of the EU to bail us out.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I was watching an interview with Dan Mulhall, our ambassador in the US, and I couldn't help but notice the prominence of the EU flag which was in the background. Irish flag could hardly be seen. That's supposedly our ambassador.

There is an article in today's Irish Times talking about EU sovereignty dealing with Brexit.

EU sovereignty?

This propaganda can be subtle but it's everywhere.

I am an Irish citizen. The EU is not my country. Brussels is not my capital.

I want an EU to exist for the benefit of countries in Europe.

I don't want a nation called Europe.

They are going too far and this is going to generate all sorts of upheaval sooner or later.

What's wrong with just having a trading block?

I've seen the Irexit brigade stretch but this is some next level calisthenics.

francois

Irexit is a fantasy that is not going to happen

Kermit.de.frog

Deleted User wrote: »

Leaving the EU would be economic and political suicide.

Exact same argument Brexiters use against Scotland leaving the UK to try and frighten them.

Same as in 1920 when the Dublin Chamber warned Irish people and pledged it's allegiance to the Crown (or as many sneered the half crown).

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Exact same argument Brexiters use against Scotland leaving the UK to try and frighten them.

Same as in 1920 when the Dublin Chamber warned Irish people and pledged it's allegiance to the Crown (or as many sneered the half crown).

Not remotely the same but you know that.

Kermit.de.frog

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Not remotely the same but you know that.

It's exactly the same. It's to frighten people.

Go and read the Tory and Labour arguments against Scotland leaving the UK.

It's all the same.

Larbre34

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Exact same argument Brexiters use against Scotland leaving the UK to try and frighten them.

Same as in 1920 when the Dublin Chamber warned Irish people and pledged it's allegiance to the Crown (or as many sneered the half crown).

Brexit had a basis in a eurosceptism that ran right back and even before the UKs accession to the EEC, probably because of the way it was handled politically at the time. Despite an enthusiastic 'yes' in 1975, there were strong regional variations that never went away.

Nothing similar is evident in Ireland. Even if we didn't like elements of certain treaties, as is our right, Europhilia never dropped below 75%.

The EU has made Ireland and it will insulate us now. And in fact if anything makes the word 'Irexit' disappear forever, it'll be the Brexit reality of the next couple of years.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's exactly the same. It's to frighten people.

Go and read the Tory and Labour arguments against Scotland leaving the UK.

It's all the same.

You mean do your research for you. No thanks.

Go on, make an original argument for Irexit. Let's hear an argument in favour.

Kermit.de.frog

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

You mean do your research for you. No thanks.

Go on, make an original argument for Irexit. Let's hear an argument in favour.

The argument is not in favor of leaving the EU. You are the one
evading.

This is suppose to be an independent republic where we govern ourselves.

It feels less and less that way.

Why do we need an EU parliament, an anthem, a flag etc...?

Give me an argument as to why you think we need this.

ancapailldorcha

Ireland needs it because it is a resource-barren island with a tiny population whose economy is heavily dependent on international trade and attacting FDI.

eagle eye

It's unbelievable that people can't understand that many want to remain Irish and not be called Europeans.
I'm with Kermit here, happy to remain a part of the EU but I'm Irish and proud of it. I don't want to be called a European.
As for Irexit, I don't think it'll ever come to a vote and I don't want that but we've a good reason for it. The way the Irish public was robbed and put through austerity was criminal.

Solutionking

The Irexit bridge will stand strong alongside Gemma and the rest of the loonies.

Kermit.de.frog

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Ireland needs it because it is a resource-barren island with a tiny population whose economy is heavily dependent on international trade and attacting FDI.

So the EU needs the trappings of statehood because Ireland is a "resource-barren island"?

Is that it, is that the argument?

So tell me what you think of Iceland and Singapore, for example, as small independent countries.

Surely they need to accept they are resource barren territories that need to barter away their independence to a larger entity going by your logic.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Surely they need to accept they are resource barren territories that need to barter away their independence to a larger entity going by your logic.

Quote me where I said this please.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

It's unbelievable that people can't understand that many want to remain Irish and not be called Europeans.

Where do you get the idea that "people" can't understand that?

I'd say, far more people want to identified as being Irish, than those wanting to be identified as European. For myself, I'm both Irish and European. I don't see any reason to separate the two.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote:

I'd say, far more people want to identified as being Irish, than those wanting to be identified as European. For myself, I'm both Irish and European. I don't see any reason to separate the two.

Well we as a nation are very well received around the globe as Irish. There isn't the same love for other European countries so I like that our identity is Irish only.

Kermit.de.frog

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Quote me where I said this please.

It's implicit in everything you have typed in your last post.

Once again you've hit a wall and can't give a counter argument so you evade.

Kermit.de.frog

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So the EU needs the trappings of statehood because Ireland is a "resource-barren island"?

Is that it, is that the argument?

So tell me what you think of Iceland and Singapore, for example, as small independent countries.

Surely they need to accept they are resource barren territories that need to barter away their independence to a larger entity going by your logic.

Iceland has an incredibly small population, and already hit the failed state mark. And Singapore has a major manufacturing industry, in addition to the financial services which have been established over centuries... Any other small countries you want to compare Ireland to? Perhaps ones with a similar history and geographical issues? Yup. Iceland is the closest, and that country hit the bottom fast, and has been struggling to come back from it, with a population of just 350k.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's implicit in everything you have typed in your last post.

Once again you've hit a wall and can't give a counter argument so you evade.

More silly nonsense you've invented to argue against so. Grand.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Well we as a nation are very well received around the globe as Irish. There isn't the same love for other European countries so I like that our identity is Irish only.

What are you basing that on?
We don't even appear on a gallup global perceptions poll:
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1624/perceptions-foreign-countries.aspx

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Well we as a nation are very well received around the globe as Irish. There isn't the same love for other European countries so I like that our identity is Irish only.

Again.. there's no reason to separate that identity.. unless you can tell why we should?

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Kermit.de.frog

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

More silly nonsense you've invented to argue against so. Grand.

You've nothing to argue, made no effort at a coherent response, so instead you try to insult the poster.

Good day to you sir.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You've nothing to argue, made no effort at a coherent response, so instead you try to insult the poster.

Good day to you sir.

I'm not going to have you pretend that I said things that I did not say.

I've asked to make your own argument for Irexit. You can't. I'd ask you to show where Irish identity is being subsumed by a European one and based on your above feelings posts I daresey there'd be nothing from you there either.