Punishment pass

Mr. Cats

This morning I was on the bike in the bike lane and approaching a pedestrian crossing. There were one or two cars stopped at the lights. There was a man crossing and when he was across I rolled on through the red light. I could see clearly that there was no one else crossing.

I continued along the bike lane and next thing I know there’s a merc blaring it’s horn and it’s in the bike lane with me, literally inches from my front bars. The merc then pulled into an estate about 200m up the road. I followed the car as it pulled into the owners driveway. When he got out I asked him why he had done it. He said it was because I broke a red light. I got fairly heated as you can imagine at him putting my life in danger for something that had nothing to do with him. The guy was unrepentant, said I should grow up, that I should get a car, and that my life was never in danger. Anyone that was out this morning in Dublin knows how gusty it is and quite hard to keep a straight line at times.

On the way home I stopped at Garda station. I asked if they would give a call to warn driver. They replied that basically unless I’m willing to go to court there’s no point making a statement. I said I’d go home, cool off a bit, and think about it.

Looking for opinions on best steps next? I’m not too bothered about prosecuting etc but at same time this guy could kill someone in future so would like to take some action that makes him realise this.

07Lapierre

Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Forget it, move on, life’s too short.

droidus

The guards were trying to save themselves some work. Anyone willing to use their car to intimidate someone shouldn't be on the road. Try traffic watch or go back and make a statement.

JeffKenna

So you can do whatever you want but if it's someone else you call the guards... Seems fair.

fatbhoy

Mr. Cats wrote: »

This morning I was on the bike in the bike lane and approaching a pedestrian crossing. There were one or two cars stopped at the lights. There was a man crossing and when he was across I rolled on through the red light. I could see clearly that there was no one else crossing.

I continued along the bike lane and next thing I know there’s a merc blaring it’s horn and it’s in the bike lane with me, literally inches from my front bars. The merc then pulled into an estate about 200m up the road. I followed the car as it pulled into the owners driveway. When he got out I asked him why he had done it. He said it was because I broke a red light. I got fairly heated as you can imagine at him putting my life in danger for something that had nothing to do with him. The guy was unrepentant, said I should grow up, that I should get a car, and that my life was never in danger. Anyone that was out this morning in Dublin knows how gusty it is and quite hard to keep a straight line at times.

On the way home I stopped at Garda station. I asked if they would give a call to warn driver. They replied that basically unless I’m willing to go to court there’s no point making a statement. I said I’d go home, cool off a bit, and think about it.

Looking for opinions on best steps next? I’m not too bothered about prosecuting etc but at same time this guy could kill someone in future so would like to take some action that makes him realise this.

It happens all the time. Don't worry about it. He's an asshole. A lot of drivers don't seem to realise that it takes cyclists energy to take off after stopping. Personally, I don't stop at all red lights: I just take super care not to intimidate or put pedestrians in danger.

Johnny Sausage

Don't break red lights

Can't jut decide the rules of the road don't apply to you

sparrowcar

Only emergency services and numtpies break red lights...are you in the emergency services?

Put yourself in the drivers shoes. Your actions caused him to react the way he did (not condoning them). Had you followed the rules of the road then no issue, take some responsibility.

Let it go, move on and stop breaking red lights.

droidus

A lot of idiotic sanctimommy going on here. The OP took an illegal action that had absolutely 0% chance of harming anybody. The driver then used his car as a weapon to intimidate and threaten him, putting his life at risk.

Would you be OK with the merc driver,mounting the pavement to intimidate a pedestrian who'd failed to cross at a crossing? Or perhaps swerve in front of another car that was driving in the bus lane? After all, their actions would have caused him to react the way he did.

Shai

sparrowcar wrote: »

Your actions caused him to react the way he did (not condoning them). Had you followed the rules of the road then no issue, take some responsibility.

What a load of ****e.

Amazing how none of this "had you followed the rules of the road then no issue" is ever brought up when it comes to speeding or mobile phone usage, or just about anything when it comes to drivers really.

droidus

droidus wrote: »

The OP took an illegal action that had absolutely 0% chance of harming anybody.

Absolute drivel. They broke a red light and therefore the rules of the road.

That's the start, middle and end of it.

martyc5674

This guy In the merc has no right to do what he did. We employ guards to enforce the law not assholes in Mercs. If you beat up an old lady he still shouldn’t give you a punishment pass.

Johnny Jukebox

Shai wrote: »

What a load of ****e.

Agreed. He acted the way he did because he's a cnut.

Shai

Deleted User wrote: »

Absolute drivel. He broke a red light and therefore the rules of the road.

That's the start, middle and end of it.

Awesome. Should I pull out a knife on the next driver I see breaking the speed limit? I won't stab him though, I'll just wave it a few inches from his face. Cause apparently that's okay.

Atlantic Dawn

May he who obeys the rules of the road cast the first stone.

jon1981

sparrowcar wrote: »

Only emergency services and numtpies break red lights...are you in the emergency services?

Put yourself in the drivers shoes. Your actions caused him to react the way he did (not condoning them). Had you followed the rules of the road then no issue, take some responsibility.

Let it go, move on and stop breaking red lights.

Oh so it's ok that he can take the law into his own hands using his car to intimidate the OP?

Cop on. The issue here is the guy driving the 1 tonne vehicle and not being able to control his temper.

I observe law breaking on the roads every day by all sides, if people reacted this way you'd have far greater deaths on the road. It's not normal behaviour to react the way thar driver did.

Shai

Shai wrote: »

Awesome. Should I pull out a knife on the next driver I see breaking the speed limit?

That's entirely up to yourself.

ted1

JeffKenna wrote: »

So you can do whatever you want but if it's someone else you call the guards... Seems fair.

This isn’t AH.

Shai

Deleted User wrote: »

That's entirely up to yourself.

And you would of course react the same way, right? You'd defend me doing so?

martyc5674

Johnny Jukebox wrote: »

Agreed. He acted the way he did because he's a cnut.

This is basically what it boils down to. We all know the type.

Ludikrus

martyc5674 wrote: »

This is basically what it boils down to. We all know the type.

And the merc driver thinks the cyclist who broke the law is a cnut. They say if you’re encountering 3 or more cnuts a day you’re actually the cnut.

tdf7187

07Lapierre wrote: »

Two wrongs don’t make a right.
Forget it, move on, life’s too short.

Generation Snowflake never forgets any wrong, apart from their own.

skallywag

OP, sorry for the bluntness but you were a dickhead for breaking the red.

I'm an avid cyclist myself but it really pisses me off when I see people doing this. Why could you not have waited 20 seconds? You do realise that red lights are there for a reason, no?

martyc5674

Ludikrus wrote: »

And the merc driver thinks the cyclist who broke the law is a cnut. They say if you’re encountering 3 or more cnuts a day you’re actually the cnut.

The merc driver is a cnut because he took the law into his own hands, ... he’s probably a bully at work and it has worked for him there.

martyc5674

skallywag wrote: »

OP, sorry for the bluntness but you were a dickhead for breaking the red.

I'm an avid cyclist myself but it really pisses me off when I see people doing this. Why could you not have waited 20 seconds? You do realise that red lights are there for a reason, no?

But let’s say you were driving your car and you saw this, would you have swerved at him?
I don’t like it when I see it either the caveat being only if it is dangerous/mindless.
Any progressive country wrt cycling allows cyclists move first at junctions/filter left on red etc.

fatbhoy

fatbhoy wrote: »

Personally, I don't stop at all red lights: I just take super care not to intimidate or put pedestrians in danger.

The OP was wrong, and the Merc driver should be prosecuted for dangerous driving (OP make a statement and go to court as a witness if necessary), but no comment from forum users to the above?

Edit. Only seeing Skallywag's post now.

jon1981

skallywag wrote: »

OP, sorry for the bluntness but you were a dickhead for breaking the red.

I'm an avid cyclist myself but it really pisses me off when I see people doing this. Why could you not have waited 20 seconds? You do realise that red lights are there for a reason, no?

The point has just sailed right over your head. This same prick would probably punishment past most cyclists for merely being on the road.

A cyclist breaking a red light and a motorist punishment pass are not equivalent threats to safety.

mrcheez

Mr. Cats wrote: »

This morning I was on the bike in the bike lane and approaching a pedestrian crossing. There were one or two cars stopped at the lights. There was a man crossing and when he was across I rolled on through the red light. I could see clearly that there was no one else crossing.

I continued along the bike lane and next thing I know there’s a merc blaring it’s horn and it’s in the bike lane with me, literally inches from my front bars. The merc then pulled into an estate about 200m up the road. I followed the car as it pulled into the owners driveway. When he got out I asked him why he had done it. He said it was because I broke a red light. I got fairly heated as you can imagine at him putting my life in danger for something that had nothing to do with him. The guy was unrepentant, said I should grow up, that I should get a car, and that my life was never in danger. Anyone that was out this morning in Dublin knows how gusty it is and quite hard to keep a straight line at times.

On the way home I stopped at Garda station. I asked if they would give a call to warn driver. They replied that basically unless I’m willing to go to court there’s no point making a statement. I said I’d go home, cool off a bit, and think about it.

Looking for opinions on best steps next? I’m not too bothered about prosecuting etc but at same time this guy could kill someone in future so would like to take some action that makes him realise this.

There was a discussion about cyclists breaking red lights on Newstalk a day or so ago. I didn't hear it but my Mum mentioned it.

This sort of coverage usually coincides with more aggressive behaviour toward cyclists, particularly if they see you doing something that annoys them.

On any morning when I find I'm frequently getting passed far too closely I usually find out that George Hook has been venting, or something similar.

skallywag

martyc5674 wrote: »

But let’s say you were driving your car and you saw this, would you have swerved at him?

Not a chance, that's an awful thing to do, and if some driver did it to me I would very quickly lose the rag and things could very likely get violent if I caught up with them.

That said it is still complete bolloxology to be going through red lights. Sorry, there is just no excuse for it. Wait. It will take the best part of 20 secs usually. It really gets to me that some cyclists think that it's 'harmless'.

jon1981

skallywag wrote: »

Not a chance, that's an awful thing to do, and if some driver did it to me I would very quickly lose the rag and things could very likely get violent if I caught up with them.

That said it is still complete bolloxology to be going through red lights. Sorry, there is just no excuse for it. Wait. It will take the best part of 20 secs usually. It really gets to me that some cyclists think that it's 'harmless'.

But you'll agree a punishment pass is the more serious offence and discussion topic here, right?

skallywag

jon1981 wrote: »

But you'll agree a punishment pass is the more serious offence and discussion topic here, right?

If you want to go down the road of who was more in the wrong, then yeah, I completely agree with you. Like I said, if I can catch up someday with someone who does that to me then I will not be holding back.

That said, it's still no excuse for the OP to be completely acting the bollox.

punisher5112

punisher5112 wrote: »

Where's andrew he usually has an agenda

Op you should be fined for running the red and the driver for not giving room...

2 of you were wrong.

Hope you are fined if you proceed.

mrcheez

punisher5112 wrote: »

Op you should be fined for running the red and the driver for not giving room...

name checks out

It’s disgraceful that cyclists can constantly break red lights and not follow the rules of the road and are never punished.

I have lots of footage of this on my dash cam and I can’t do anything with it. No way to identify them.

jon1981

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s disgraceful that cyclists can constantly break red lights and not follow the rules of the road and are never punished.

I have lots of footage of this on my dash cam and I can’t do anything with it. No way to identify them.

Did they nearly kill you?

What about pedestrians?

The Republic of Ireland maintains a jaywalking law, which requires a pedestrian to use a pedestrian crossing if they are within 15.24 metres (50 feet) of one. This law is generally dismissed by Irish pedestrians, who routinely cross all public roads except motorways. When crossing a road, pedestrians are advised to wait until it is safe to cross. Vehicles should give way to the pedestrian who uses a zebra crossing. Irish children are taught the RSA (Road Safety Authority) safe cross code in schools where it teaches them to stop, listen, and look out for any incoming traffic whilst crossing a road and only cross a road if safe to do so. It also advises them to use traffic lights and zebra crossings to cross a road rather than jaywalk. An Garda Síochána (Ireland's national police force) usually do not take action on jaywalkers unless they caused possible harm to drivers or others.

mrcheez

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s disgraceful that cars cyclists can constantly break red lights and use mobile phones and not follow the rules of the road and are never punished.

I have lots of footage of this on my helmet dash cam and I can can’t do anything with it. A No way to identify them.

FYP. In fact many cyclists get punished, but admittedly any that go through reds are arguably putting their own lives at risk more than other people (apart from the idiots that go through when people are crossing).

I'm actually shocked at the rise in red light runners in vehicles over recent years, particularly when I'm driving around and almost get rammed by the car behind that's assuming I'm going to speed up as the light changes yellow.

But also noting a lot of close calls on my cycling commute from cars deciding to go through reds a few seconds after they have become active. Definite rise over past year or so.

Seth Brundle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s disgraceful that cyclists can constantly break red lights and not follow the rules of the road and are never punished.

Cyclists are frequently punished and rightfully so. However in my experience, far more drivers break red lights than cyclists. Also the driver will create a much bigger mess if they get it wrong.

Gardaí catch 24 times more Dublin motorists than cyclists breaking red lights

meeeeh

Two people behaving like d1ckheads on the road arguing who is bigger d1ckhead. For the record it's the driver but both deserve the fine, one to be put of the road because he can't control himself while driving.

Anyway the fact that they also managed to have shouting match after the incidents tells me everything about the two people involved.

bmc58

Mr. Cats wrote: »

This morning I was on the bike in the bike lane and approaching a pedestrian crossing. There were one or two cars stopped at the lights. There was a man crossing and when he was across I rolled on through the red light. I could see clearly that there was no one else crossing.

I continued along the bike lane and next thing I know there’s a merc blaring it’s horn and it’s in the bike lane with me, literally inches from my front bars. The merc then pulled into an estate about 200m up the road. I followed the car as it pulled into the owners driveway. When he got out I asked him why he had done it. He said it was because I broke a red light. I got fairly heated as you can imagine at him putting my life in danger for something that had nothing to do with him. The guy was unrepentant, said I should grow up, that I should get a car, and that my life was never in danger. Anyone that was out this morning in Dublin knows how gusty it is and quite hard to keep a straight line at times.

On the way home I stopped at Garda station. I asked if they would give a call to warn driver. They replied that basically unless I’m willing to go to court there’s no point making a statement. I said I’d go home, cool off a bit, and think about it.

Looking for opinions on best steps next? I’m not too bothered about prosecuting etc but at same time this guy could kill someone in future so would like to take some action that makes him realise this.

You went through a Red light..Wrong.You got angry and followed a person to argue.Wrong again.You need an anger managment course.

boardbeer

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Cyclists are frequently punished and rightfully so. However in my experience, far more drivers break red lights than cyclists. Also the driver will create a much bigger mess if they get it wrong.

Maybe fines should be set to reflect the risk as a product of speed x mass

Gardaí catch 24 times more Dublin motorists than cyclists breaking red lights

Or more graphically, this:

skallywag

meeeeh wrote: »

Anyway the fact that they also managed to have shouting match after the incidents tells me everything about the two people involved.

I am not sure what this point means?

Have you ever had something like this happen to you? It is extremely frightening.

Any time I have had it happen to me I have done my best to catch up with the car, and if I manage to catch them one day I would be quite proud of myself if I could limit it to shouting.

martingriff

mrcheez wrote: »

FYP. In fact many cyclists get punished, but admittedly any that go through reds are arguably putting their own lives at risk more than other people (apart from the idiots that go through when people are crossing).

I'm actually shocked at the rise in red light runners in vehicles over recent years, particularly when I'm driving around and almost get rammed by the car behind that's assuming I'm going to speed up as the light changes yellow.

But also noting a lot of close calls on my cycling commute from cars deciding to go through reds a few seconds after they have become active. Definite rise over past year or so.

Yes there is a rise in this at it's absolutely horrible. However this does not give you an excuse to go through a red.

Your first paragraph should be reason enough not to go through reds as a cyclist.

meeeeh

skallywag wrote: »

I am not sure what this point means?

Have you ever had something like this happen to you? It is extremely frightening.

Any time I have had it happen to me I have done my best to catch up with the car, and if I manage to catch them one day I would be quite proud of myself if I could limit it to shouting.

No but I've been on the wrong side of the aggression on the roads. It's frightening but it's not up to me to deal with it and playing Rambo achieves nothing. Report it.

Or you can loose your self control and get into shouting or boxing match. But then you are just another person in traffic who can't control their temper.

skallywag

meeeeh wrote: »

But then you are just another person in traffic who can't control their temper.

Really?

We are talking about someone in a car who actively swerves towards someone on a push bike in order to 'teach them a lesson'. 'just another person in traffic who cannot control their temper'? Are you serious? If I am in my car and it happens, then yeah, I agree with you. But someone on a pushbike???

c montgomery

Mr. Cats wrote: »

This morning I was on the bike in the bike lane and approaching a pedestrian crossing. There were one or two cars stopped at the lights. There was a man crossing and when he was across I rolled on through the red light. I could see clearly that there was no one else crossing.

I continued along the bike lane and next thing I know there’s a merc blaring it’s horn and it’s in the bike lane with me, literally inches from my front bars. The merc then pulled into an estate about 200m up the road. I followed the car as it pulled into the owners driveway. When he got out I asked him why he had done it. He said it was because I broke a red light. I got fairly heated as you can imagine at him putting my life in danger for something that had nothing to do with him. The guy was unrepentant, said I should grow up, that I should get a car, and that my life was never in danger. Anyone that was out this morning in Dublin knows how gusty it is and quite hard to keep a straight line at times.

On the way home I stopped at Garda station. I asked if they would give a call to warn driver. They replied that basically unless I’m willing to go to court there’s no point making a statement. I said I’d go home, cool off a bit, and think about it.

Looking for opinions on best steps next? I’m not too bothered about prosecuting etc but at same time this guy could kill someone in future so would like to take some action that makes him realise this.

2 assholes in this story.

meeeeh

skallywag wrote: »

Really?

We are talking about someone in a car who actively swerves towards someone on a push bike in order to 'teach them a lesson'. 'just another person in traffic who cannot control their temper'? Are you serious? If I am in my car and it happens, then yeah, I agree with you. But someone on a pushbike???

It's an option afforded to those who are stronger. As a woman I know this kind of behaviour is not an option for me anyway. I have no time for that kind of behaviour from anyone but knock yourself out of you think that will resolve anything.

micar

Johnny Sausage wrote: »

Don't break red lights

Can't jut decide the rules of the road don't apply to you

OP....the drivers behaviour is a direct result of yours.

He should have simply not reacted the way he did.

In the future, don't roll through the red light.

That said, my commute for the last 10 years has been the same. I know how the sequencing and timing of all the lights. A second before the light for me goes green, I begin to move off to open up some space.

Technically I'm breaking the red light. I do it for my safety as I don't trust any motorits to hold back and give me space.

Stark

OP , I really hope you apologized to the red light for what you did. Do you know how much danger you put the light in by passing it with the red illuminated? The merc driver was right, your human life is worth nothing compared to that light.

micar

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s disgraceful that cyclists can constantly break red lights and not follow the rules of the road and are never punished.

I have lots of footage of this on my dash cam and I can’t do anything with it. No way to identify them.

No offence, I'm sure you have plenty of footage on motorits breaking a multitude of road traffic laws. Have you reported any of them?

I have never come across a case in the papers where a motorits was convicted of a road traffic offence solely based on the submission of dash cam footage submitted by another motorists. ...... YouTube is full of these

skallywag

meeeeh wrote: »

It's an option afforded to those who are stronger

I think that you have hit the nail right on the head.

If a guy in a car gets it even slightly wrong, while swerving towards me on my pushbike, then I could be seriously injured (or knocked out as you correctly say) or even killed.

He is x100 times stronger than me on my bike.

I am not a violent person at all, but I have no qualms about following up when someone in a car makes an attempt to use his car as a threat against me.

meeeeh

skallywag wrote: »

I think that you have hit the nail right on the head.

If a guy in a car gets it even slightly wrong, while swerving towards me on my pushbike, then I could be seriously injured (or knocked out) or even killed.

He is x100 times stronger than me on my bike.

I am not a violent person at all, but I have no qualms about following up when someone in a car makes an attempt to use his car as a threat against me.

Well welcome to the wild west where things are resolved with fists. I'm sure you will be a hero for some.

punisher5112

Driving a bus for many years I've come across it all....

I do not punish pass, I do not pass and pull in or block cyclists and basically my mentality is leave them off as life is to short to be stressing but even with that I've been followed, abused mentally and physically, items thrown, complaints put in etc.

Our roads are not suitable or safe especially in Dublin and surrounding areas as the space is so limited.

Sure a regular cyclist abuses me at Fairview for been in the cycle lane!!!! Yes he is right I'm in the broken white line cycle lane as it itself is in the bus lane and the bus itself hardly fits in the bus lane itself.


There are absolute twats on both sides and I've seen that too.

People in general need to just count to 5 and breath and move on.

Stress is a real killer and we need to be more accommodating to each other.

One thing I find absolutely nuts though is those that burst their way to pass on bends, corners, or when a bus is pulling in.... So many put themselves in danger cycling and there absolutely no need to do so.

If someone hits the bell late for example I don't just click across I wait till they pass or I'm eventually let in.

Respect each other we are all human beings no matter what.