Why don't we tax the Irish outside of Ireland?

Gone Drinking

0.5% from the earnings of any person with an Irish passport living and earning abroad. Just until a good part of the national debt is paid.

These lads have all done well to pull a runner, earning a good living in whatever country, leaving the rest of us to sort out our countries finances. The average person didn't fcuk this place to begin with but why should only those left at home have to fix it!

Also, pubs that want to brand themselves as an Irish bar in a foreign country should pay a tax.

I'd vote for a party with this agenda.

Thoughts?

KaneToad

Gone Drinking wrote: »

0.5% from the earnings of any person with an Irish passport living and earning abroad. Just until a good part of the national debt is paid.

These lads have all done well to pull a runner, earning a good living in whatever country, leaving the rest of us to sort out our countries finances. The average person didn't fcuk this place to begin with but why should only those left at home have to fix it!

Also, pubs that want to brand themselves as an Irish bar in a foreign country should pay a tax.

I'd vote for a party with this agenda.

Thoughts?

But...but...JP McManus is a great man...he spends loads of his money in Limerick. But doesn't like to talk about it...

maninasia

Gone Drinking wrote: »

0.5% from the earnings of any person with an Irish passport living and earning abroad. Just until a good part of the national debt is paid.

These lads have all done well to pull a runner, earning a good living in whatever country, leaving the rest of us to sort out our countries finances. The average person didn't fcuk this place to begin with but why should only those left at home have to fix it!

Also, pubs that want to brand themselves as an Irish bar in a foreign country should pay a tax.

I'd vote for a party with this agenda.

Thoughts?

I'd vote for you to stick your head down the toilet and give it a good flush . Clear out yer old cobwebs.

EmmetSpiceland

In exchange for a vote in “presidential” elections, maybe?

elperello

They did us a favour by going away to make a living because Ireland could not provide it for them.

Couldn't see the idea getting much political support.

Larbre34

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Also, pubs that want to brand themselves as an Irish bar in a foreign country should pay a tax.

Can we close this please?

elperello

Larbre34 wrote: »

Can we close this please?

The Irish bar?
It's a bit early

Darc19

Op has a very apt username 😂

mystic86

And under what authority would you collect it? Who will you send around to their house in Vietnam or New Zealand if they don't pay up?

Pauliedragon

Gone Drinking wrote: »

0.5% from the earnings of any person with an Irish passport living and earning abroad. Just until a good part of the national debt is paid.

These lads have all done well to pull a runner, earning a good living in whatever country, leaving the rest of us to sort out our countries finances. The average person didn't fcuk this place to begin with but why should only those left at home have to fix it!

Also, pubs that want to brand themselves as an Irish bar in a foreign country should pay a tax.

I'd vote for a party with this agenda.

Thoughts?

Living up to the oul username are we?

medi_bai

mystic86 wrote: »

And under what authority would you collect it? Who will you send around to their house in Vietnam or New Zealand if they don't pay up?

Simple enough really, when they apply for their next passport, don't issue until the bill is settled in full (plus penalties?).

The yanks have been managing to do it for years.

Zaph

Just because the Americans tax everyone with US citizenship, regardless of where they live, doesn't mean we have to copy them. Those people are already paying taxes in the countries they reside, how is it moral to tax them again simply by virtue of where they happened to be born?

KiKi III

“No taxation without representation.”

How many TDs are going to represent this diaspora in the Dail?

medi_bai

How is it moral of them to take a passport & the benefits the citizenship gives them while abroad for free, simply by virtue of where they happened to be born?

careless sherpa

Zaph wrote: »

Just because the Americans tax everyone with US citizenship, regardless of where they live, doesn't mean we have to copy them. Those people are already paying taxes in the countries they reside, how is it moral to tax them again simply by virtue of where they happened to be born?

Would be by virtue of having access to an Irish passport

matchthis

Would cost more to operate than run. Different jurisdictions, would be a nightmare to enforce. As said already, when these guys left, they reduced the amount that would’ve been unemployed. I’d say a good few of them also sent money home. Families were torn apart and not always a choice that was easily taken. All I ask is they don’t be arseholes where they settle

con___manx1

Gone Drinking wrote: »

0.5% from the earnings of any person with an Irish passport living and earning abroad. Just until a good part of the national debt is paid.

These lads have all done well to pull a runner, earning a good living in whatever country, leaving the rest of us to sort out our countries finances. The average person didn't fcuk this place to begin with but why should only those left at home have to fix it!

Also, pubs that want to brand themselves as an Irish bar in a foreign country should pay a tax.

I'd vote for a party with this agenda.

Thoughts?

Those people who did a runner saved the government millions in social welfare payments. They had no other option really during the recession. I myself was one of them and am happily back home now.
America is the only country that taxes citizens that live abroad that I no of.

I already pay plenty of taxes while living outside of Ireland... But sure, hit me with more tax, and I'll clear away all investments/property/savings located in the country. I suppose I could also stop sending money to my parents (which they spend in Ireland), and the subsequent tax that I pay on those transfers.

OP. Just because we're not living in Ireland doesn't mean we don't contribute.

Fr_Dougal

KiKi III wrote: »

“No taxation without representation.”

How many TDs are going to represent this diaspora in the Dail?

How many flew home to vote in the referendums?

No representation without taxation?

Gone Drinking

I thought this would be an unpopular opinion so I have to say I'm humbled by the support of this objective.

I genuinely believe this is an initiative we can all get behind.

Fr_Dougal

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

How many flew home to vote in the referendums?

No representation without taxation?

And how many didn't? I didn't. I'm back home now, and I won't be voting during the election. i know a variety of Irish people abroad who consider that we don't have the right to vote since we're not actively living in the country. Others feel differently.

In any case, there are many types of taxes that can still be applied to Irish citizens while they're living/working abroad.

Mrs OBumble

You know that most of em have never even lived in Ireland?





Hup the foreign-born nationals!

Kermit.de.frog

So let me get this straight OP.


You want the government to tax Irish people living abroad despite the fact most of them are living abroad as a direct result of the country's failure to manage it's affairs properly having driven them out?

So, not content with them having been rogered once in being forced to emigrate - you think they should be bent over and rogered again forever for the privilege?

The hilarious thing is looks like Irish people are going to put FF back in - the party who sent them all packing after their last stint.

Incredible.

Padre_Pio

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I thought this would be an unpopular opinion so I have to say I'm humbled by the support of this objective.

I genuinely believe this is an initiative we can all get behind.

It's bollox.

Your logic is flawed.

The government, banks and others f*cked the country, forcing many Irish to leave, and now you want to tax them for the privilage of holding an Irish passport.

Gway to f*ck.

I'd like to point out the Irish government ran a scheme which paid Irish nurses working abroad to come home. It closed last year due to lack of applicants.

andekwarhola

Just tax anybody that returns from Australia on a per tale or Instagram post basis. Pay the national debt off in about 3 months.

medi_bai

medi_bai wrote: »

How is it moral of them to take a passport & the benefits the citizenship gives them while abroad for free, simply by virtue of where they happened to be born?

Remind me, what are the benefits you get while abroad as an Irish citizen?

Will Irish Army Rangers come rescue me if theres a coup?

Donnielighto

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So let me get this straight OP.


You want the government to tax Irish people living abroad despite the fact most of them are living abroad as a direct result of the country's failure to manage it's affairs properly having driven them out?

So, not content with them having been rogered once in being forced to emigrate - you think they should be bent over and rogered again forever for the privilege?

The hilarious thing is looks like Irish people are going to put FF back in - the party who sent them all packing after their last stint.

Incredible.

There's a bunch of teachers and nurses working in Dubai and the Emirates isn't there. Educated for 16 17 years here and will return but not contribute to the next generation for a few years. Not all the diaspora are forced out at all, plenty are economic immigrants by choice.

Donnielighto

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Remind me, what are the benefits you get while abroad as an Irish citizen?

Will Irish Army Rangers come rescue me if theres a coup?

Consular services? Can return for healthcare too if it's worth it.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

medi_bai wrote: »

How is it moral of them to take a passport & the benefits the citizenship gives them while abroad for free, simply by virtue of where they happened to be born?

What are the benefits of Irish citizenship for somebody living and working in another country? Virtually nobody is stateless.

Padre_Pio

Donnielighto wrote: »

There's a bunch of teachers and nurses working in Dubai and the Emirates isn't there. Educated for 16 17 years here and will return but not contribute to the next generation for a few years. Not all the diaspora are forced out at all, plenty are economic immigrants by choice.

I've no problem with people moving for better wages and standard of living than Ireland can provide.
We already benefit from thousands of immigrants who left their respective countries for similar reasons.

Donnielighto wrote: »

Consular services? Can return for healthcare too if it's worth it.

How often would one use consular services, and you'd need to be REALLY hard up to return to Ireland for our stellar health service :rolleyes:

Gone Drinking

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Remind me, what are the benefits you get while abroad as an Irish citizen?

RTE? We're all paying the licence fees whilst these lads stream the hurling on a laptop from Bondi beach.

How's it fair to be able to travel the world off the back of a passport the rest of us are paying hyped up taxes for?

If they don't want to pay, hand back the passport. Sure most have citizenship in their new countries anyway.

Capt'n Midnight

KiKi III wrote: »

“No taxation without representation.”

Next time you meet an American ask them about Puerto Rico.

mikhail

Zaph wrote: »

Just because the Americans tax everyone with US citizenship, regardless of where they live, doesn't mean we have to copy them. Those people are already paying taxes in the countries they reside, how is it moral to tax them again simply by virtue of where they happened to be born?

I think they can discount the local income tax they pay against any US tax bill, or they'd be fairly screwed. So it really only catches those who go live in some tax haven.

Padre_Pio

Gone Drinking wrote: »

RTE? We're all paying the licence fees whilst these lads stream the hurling on a laptop from Bondi beach.

How's it fair to be able to travel the world off the back of a passport the rest of us are paying hyped up taxes for?

If they don't want to pay, hand back the passport. Sure most have citizenship in their new countries anyway.

Excuse me? How are you paying for my passport? If I remember correctly, I paid 75 euro for it.

Not even going to bother with the licence fee comment

maninasia

careless sherpa wrote: »

Would be by virtue of having access to an Irish passport

People already pay a lot of money for the passports. And they've probably paid in a lot of tax when resident in Ireland too. All said being a citizen and having citizens rights is Not primarily about money.

Gone Drinking

Gone Drinking wrote: »

RTE? We're all paying the licence fees whilst these lads stream the hurling on a laptop from Bondi beach.

How's it fair to be able to travel the world off the back of a passport the rest of us are paying hyped up taxes for?

If they don't want to pay, hand back the passport. Sure most have citizenship in their new countries anyway.

Most of RTEs content is blocked outside of Ireland. I actually suggested in another thread they allow a subscription service for all RTE content but theyd have to fix the player first as it on works half the time.

Theres one major way your idea could back fire. So i can't renew my passport without paying the taxbill? Grand so, I'll get citizenship wherever I am and just let it lapse, and the Exchequer misses out on what I would have spent on a weekend home - which is much more beneficial and probably a much larger sum.

maninasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Remind me, what are the benefits you get while abroad as an Irish citizen?

Will Irish Army Rangers come rescue me if theres a coup?

Like most countries worldwide there's no Irish counsul where I reside. We are on our own out here .

Gone Drinking

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Excuse me? How are you paying for my passport? If I remember correctly, I paid 75 euro for it.

Not even going to bother with the licence fee comment

Because if everyone upped and left when things got bad, we wouldn't have had a state to back up that passport?

AngryHippie

medi_bai wrote: »

How is it moral of them to take a passport & the benefits the citizenship gives them while abroad for free, simply by virtue of where they happened to be born?

As an Irish born citizen, you only have access or a right to an Irish passport.

What benefits of Irish citizenship to I get while living working and paying tax overseas exactly?

Consular services and the reciprocal emergency medical services are where the buck stops as far as I have experienced.

Never mind should we deign to return with a few quid in our arse pockets, it will be rapidly picked out by car insurance companies and banks while the usual village idiots begrudge us the "chances" we had and know nothing of the risks we took, the relationships we lost, the loneliness we endured along the way.

with all due respect (which isn't much) stick it up in your arse.

maninasia

maninasia wrote: »

Like most countries worldwide there's no Irish counsul where I reside. We are on our own out here .

Where I was there was one, but if the sh1t hit the fan youd be better off finding the British one.

It wouldn't surprise me at all, if the half dozen irish citizens currently in the city of Wuhan arrive home via RAF Brize Norton.

mickdw

The idea is not quite as mad as people are making out.
The Americans tax citizens on world wide earnings and it's seen as normal.
There are also many Instances of double taxation when people spend time in 2 countries.
I'd like to see something done where perhaps people who leave would have student grants obtained in the previous 5 years turned to debt and registered against them. Let them pay the state for their education regardless of where they chose to live.
You could possibly do this by giving every worker a tax credit equal to the debt payment annually. As soon as you stop earning in Ireland, the debt needs paying.
There is lots that could be done

Gone Drinking

AngryHippie wrote: »

As an Irish born citizen, you only have access or a right to an Irish passport.

What benefits of Irish citizenship to I get while living working and paying tax overseas exactly?

Presumably you got your virtually free third level education and the ability to travel to begin with? Also many years of free healthcare. Who's paying for that if you've left the country?

Im sorry but do you realize that in order for your passport to be valid it needs to be backed by a state and in order for a state to exist it requires funding from its citizens? Primarily in the form of taxes.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Donnielighto wrote: »

Consular services? Can return for healthcare too if it's worth it.

But sure, everyone working within a country contributes to the consular services of that country. When I worked in the UK, my taxes went towards supporting their consular services even though I wouldn’t have been able to avail of them probably.

Idbatterim

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

So let me get this straight OP.


You want the government to tax Irish people living abroad despite the fact most of them are living abroad as a direct result of the country's failure to manage it's affairs properly having driven them out?

So, not content with them having been rogered once in being forced to emigrate - you think they should be bent over and rogered again forever for the privilege?

The hilarious thing is looks like Irish people are going to put FF back in - the party who sent them all packing after their last stint.

Incredible.

Yeah. Send all your money back to prop up this banana republic and Margaret cash and the outrageous welfare state ! Lol ! Lol !

The Americans have colossal military spend! We have massive waster spending !

Gone Drinking

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Because if everyone upped and left when things got bad, we wouldn't have had a state to back up that passport?

If everyone stayed, and stayed on the dole the country would run out of money very quickly.

2010, 30000 irish people emigrated.

Lets do some quick numbers

Dole 186.
186 x 30000 is about 5.5 million - a week. In dole payments alone. Housing assistance, at least another 5 million per week. 120 million a year. Thats before child benefit, medical cards, consumption of resources and services. Versus people leaving when work is short and costing the Exchequer nothing?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

mickdw wrote: »

The idea is not quite as mad as people are making out.
The Americans tax citizens on world wide earnings and it's seen as normal.
There are also many Instances of double taxation when people spend time in 2 countries.
I'd like to see something done where perhaps people who leave would have student grants obtained in the previous 5 years turned to debt and registered against them. Let them pay the state for their education regardless of where they chose to live.
You could possibly do this by giving every worker a tax credit equal to the debt payment annually. As soon as you stop earning in Ireland, the debt needs paying.
There is lots that could be done

Not in any of the regular places Irish people emigrate to and at some point, there’ll be double taxation agreements with every country.

The American system seems normal in America. Thankfully we’re not America.

I graduated into the recession and went to the UK. The alternative was staying here, claiming dole. How would that have been better?

Idbatterim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If everyone stayed, and stayed on the dole the country would run out of money very quickly.

2010, 30000 irish people emigrated.

Lets do some quick numbers

Dole 186.
186 x 30000 is about 5.5 million - a week. In dole payments alone. Housing assistance, at least another 5 million per week. 120 million a year. Thats before child benefit, medical cards, consumption of resources and services. Versus people leaving when work is short and costing the Exchequer nothing?

Isn’t dole e203 week now. Plus the Xmas bonus ?

Idbatterim

Donnielighto wrote: »

There's a bunch of teachers and nurses working in Dubai and the Emirates isn't there. Educated for 16 17 years here and will return but not contribute to the next generation for a few years. Not all the diaspora are forced out at all, plenty are economic immigrants by choice.

What’s the choice ? **** government. Mostly **** weather. Outrageous marginal rate of tax. Joke housing. Childcare , law and Order , Infrastructure. Who benefits from all of this , not working people , the distribution of wealth from the working and working poor here , to wasters , fraudsters and many of the comfortable pensioners with free travel , tv license, medical card etc , is a scandal !

mickdw

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Not in any of the regular places Irish people emigrate to and at some point, there’ll be double taxation agreements with every country.

The American system seems normal in America. Thankfully we’re not America.

I graduated into the recession and went to the UK. The alternative was staying here, claiming dole. How would that have been better?

Plenty Irish guys that got American citizenship paying their taxes to America each year while having returned home.
You graduated into recession. Fair enough. If you go on dole, the education debt is just left on your record for when you return to work. If you went to the UK, you pay the education bill to Irish government. That is what I'd like to see.
I believe UK have or are looking at something similar.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

Isn’t dole e203 week now. Plus the Xmas bonus ?

I have no clue because I've never been on the dole. My housing benefit calculation is probably seriously under valued too and theres probably other benefits I forgot.

Considering most people resent paying 170 euros for the TV licence. I can't see an irish abroad tax of much over 1000 a year before the 30,000 from my example say feck that and just don't return, let the passport lapse and get citizenship elsewhere.

And now the Exchequer has lost 30,000 x 75 for renewed passports = 2.25 million.

My number coming from emigration figures from 2010:
https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/population/current/popmig.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi39aWBiqrnAhV2UBUIHTQQCAgQFjABegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1U4S5N6Mitsc-KP5IOp0jn&cshid=1580345741032

Idbatterim

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have no clue because I've never been on the dole. My housing benefit calculation is probably seriously under valued too and theres probably other benefits I forgot.

Considering most people resent paying 170 euros for the TV licence. I can't see an irish abroad tax of much over 1000 a year before the 30,000 from my example say feck that and just don't return, let the passport lapse and get citizenship elsewhere.

And now the Exchequer has lost 30,000 x 75 for renewed passports = 2.25 million.

My number coming from emigration figures from 2010:
https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/releasespublications/documents/population/current/popmig.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwi39aWBiqrnAhV2UBUIHTQQCAgQFjABegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1U4S5N6Mitsc-KP5IOp0jn&cshid=1580345741032

The tv license is e160 wasted on rubbiSh ! Can’t expect people who have left t better themselves or forced on them and then tax them , to pay for luxury social only housing in Dundrum , that they themselves could never reasonably afford !