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Trouble finding bigger calibre for sales

  • 26-01-2020 2:06pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    Hi

    For stalking im currently rebuilding my bat 6.5 into a lightweight stalker (carbon barrel ,pse stock) ,this will become my every day stalking rifle.

    To compliment the 6.5 im looking to add a bigger cal to the cabinet for a bit of target shooting,to use on the bigger sika during the rut and just to try something different.The problem is im having trouble ordering one as it seems alot of the distributors are not bringing in alot of models bigger than 270/6.5/308 which are all too near the creedmoor to make them different enough for me.

    I have been trying to buy

    1) sako black wolf in 30.06 or 7mm rem mag (originally they said 9 month special order now saying they are phasing out that model and not willing to take orders

    2) Bergara something similar to the hmr but they dont do the hmr in 7mm or 30.06 and if they did doubt they the distributors would have brought one in

    I know i can get a blaser r8 pro success and get a cheek piece fitted but reluctant to pay 4k for a gun that wont come out that much

    Has anyone any suggestions on something that might suit or they have seen for sale anywhere

    Needs to be
    1) 30.06 or 7mmRem Mag
    2) Adjustable cheekpiece
    3) Very Accurate /Decent Barrell
    4) I like a lightweight trigger so needs to be adjustable to around a pound or take an aftermarket trigger or spring

    Thanks for any suggestions


«1

Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster
    Moderator


    I don't nessesraly agree that you need a bigger calibre for rutting Sika, I have taken them and Reds with 100gr .243 Win.
    But your choice in calibre is your prerogative.......
    ......besides, I up graded a few years back to the .270 and last year added a 30-06.

    Both great rounds and I have dropped animals in thier tracks with chest shots with either one, but Ive f#cked up with both as well and had runners.

    I have used both a '06 Sako 75 finnlight and a '06 Sako 85 synthetic on paper and on live targets. My longest shot with the 85 was 225ish yards with a quatering 15 mph wind out on the open hill on a full grown Hybrid Hind and she dropped on the spot to a 150gr SP in the chest. A few more successful hunts pushed me onto my own '06, this time a Mauser M96 American.
    All three guns are accurate and reliable, mine is now obsolete although Rossler produce a clone of them, now with upgrades that were originally only on the higher grade rifles. I have shot the M96 in 7mm Rem Mag, very effective on boar and roe deer.

    None of the guns meet your spec, adjustable comb etc but they are all shooters. Obviously the 75 and 85 are the lighter of the three and I would have no bother taking either of the two as a one gun option.
    Ultimately, leaving out the higher grade Blasers, I'd look at the newer Mausers, (switch barrels or the M12 Impact ) or Sauers with thier adjustable cheek piece and calibre choice as per your wish list.

    With the exception of the Sakos, I can only really vouch for the '06 calibre, its a .30 cal resulting in a appropriately sized hole, but not excessive ( the little .243 can be more destructive). It has a good range of grain size (used Sako 123g, very accurate and cheep) easily got in 180gr and then bigger if needed for the more exotic hunting. In light weight unmoderated rifles such as the '85 its a pussy to shoot in the field.

    I use both the .270 and '06, as they are both set up differently. The .270 is a bare bones, feather weight, sleek mountain rifle that you can walk all day with (limited by my belly size), the '06 on the other hand is nmoderated, can be seen with a bipod and sports a 8x56 glass, so it tends to stay in the lower parts of the country altough it is no stranger to the hills.

    Finally.....
    I don't want to wreck your head, but don't dismiss the .270 it is still a hard hitting round and you can, if that is your thing, stretch its legs a long way out and still hit hard. I've shot full on rutting Sika, big lowland Red Stags and boar with the 130gr soft points. Its a very capable round.


  • Registered Users Posts: 991 ✭✭✭ Gorgeousgeorge
    Registered User


    Have you looked at the sabatti range? Know a fellow who bought one from an authorised dealer here built to his spec.


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    I don't nessesraly agree that you need a bigger calibre for rutting Sika, I have taken them and Reds with 100gr .243 Win.


    Finally.....
    I don't want to wreck your head, but don't dismiss the .270 it is still a hard hitting round and you can, if that is your thing, stretch its legs a long way out and still hit hard. I've shot full on rutting Sika, big lowland Red Stags and boar with the 130gr soft points. Its a very capable round.

    Thanks for that , you may have misread my op in that im aware you dont "need" the bigger calibre its more that it will be one of the things the new gun will be used for.

    I suppose re the accuracy thing the bat action 6.5 shot around .2 moa and i also have a bergara hmr in creedmoor which is shooting around .3 moa so now that ive turned the bat into more of a lightweight stalker with an equivalent stalking scope id like the 30.06 to double as a range gun so it would want to be shooting around the .3 moa which i know you have to be lucky to get a factory barrel to do that.

    thanks for the note on the .270 ,im tempted because i know i can get a sako black wolf no bother in that calibre but i fear its a little near the creedmoor and one of the two of them will rot in the cabinet


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    Have you looked at the sabatti range? Know a fellow who bought one from an authorised dealer here built to his spec.

    Thanks George ,i haven't but will check out their website thank you


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ zeissman
    Registered User


    Just buy a 308. Great choice of rifles and ammunition and excellent barrel life if your target shooting.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    zeissman wrote: »
    Just buy a 308. Great choice of rifles and ammunition and excellent barrel life if your target shooting.


    thanks zeissman but i wouldnt have a 308 after having the creedmoors


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ zeissman
    Registered User


    gearoidol wrote: »
    thanks zeissman but i wouldnt have a 308 after having the creedmoors

    What do you not like about the 308 ?
    I ended up with 2 of them but one is being rebarreled to 6.5x47 at present.


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    zeissman wrote: »
    What do you not like about the 308 ?
    I ended up with 2 of them but one is being rebarreled to 6.5x47 at present.

    308s are fine but i cant see how it would offer a performance upgrade from a creedmoor shooting 143 eldx sub .3 moa out to 500 yards ,if im missing something let me know

    I suppose this thread isnt a calibre thread but more of a where can i find a sako 85 black wolf type rifle in 30.06 thats actually available to order ie im looking for alternatives brands rather than alternative calibres


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster
    Moderator


    Bigger gun market over in the UK, like the car market theres more on offer. Have you talked to someone like these guys:
    I knew a few lads in the past who have dealt with them, :

    https://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk/sako-85-black-wolf

    or

    Not a Sako but...

    https://www.lakelandsportssupplies.ie/shooting/Rifles/Sauer
    Synchro-XT-159-17-1376.html.

    I've never measured my rifle groups in MOA but If I can get them at an inch or just under at 100 yards then as far as I'm concerned, out to my average maximum stalking ranges they are Minute of Deer rifles, weather I neck 'em or put one in the boiler room, :p!!


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    gearoidol wrote: »
    ........ where can i find a sako 85 black wolf type rifle in 30.06 thats actually available to order.........
    Excuse my ignorance but is the Sako 85 Black Wolf not just a Sako 85 in a GRS stock?

    If it is can a second hand Sako 85 in 30-06 or 300wsm not be bought, then a GRS stock of your choice and drop it into the stock?

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ zeissman
    Registered User


    Theres not much available in the calibres you mention.
    You could buy a tikka and stick an aftermarket stock on it or look for a shot out sako or tikka and build something.


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    zeissman wrote: »
    Theres not much available in the calibres you mention.
    You could buy a tikka and stick an aftermarket stock on it or look for a shot out sako or tikka and build something.

    Yup looks to be the only option , I’ve built 3 or 4 custom rifles and it’s a fairly soul destroying procedure with missed delivery dates and a wide mixture of quality end results , I think I’d go Blaser before bringing that on myself again


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    Excuse my ignorance but is the Sako 85 Black Wolf not just a Sako 85 in a GRS stock?

    If it is can a second hand Sako 85 in 30-06 or 300wsm not be bought, then a GRS stock of your choice and drop it into the stock?

    It is certainly made by Grs but differs slightly from the standard offerings , I suppose I’m hoping the factory black wolf is better inletted and I wouldn’t need to bed it , where as I’d say I’d definitely have to bed a standard 85 in a standard grs stock


  • Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭ zeissman
    Registered User


    I just had a look on www.ruag.co.uk website. They are the uk importers for bergara.
    They are showing the new bergara premier hmr pro which is available in 7mm rem mag.
    Whether there available or not is another matter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    zeissman wrote: »
    I just had a look on www.ruag.co.uk website. They are the uk importers for bergara.
    They are showing the new bergara premier hmr pro which is available in 7mm rem mag.
    Whether there available or not is another matter.

    Not been brought in here, lovely new range of bergara’s released last week as well called the wilderness series , comes with an adjustable cheek piece and cerakoted but I’m sure it will be 12 months before we see them and probably won’t bring the 7 rem mag so no point in waiting for them


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    You can import yourself from the UK, EU or the States. Might take a few weeks to organise paperwork, etc. but it can be done. There is no need for an RFD to be involved and it means you can buy whatever you want without the usually 10 ten "Irish" waiting time.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    You can import yourself from the UK, EU or the States. Might take a few weeks to organise paperwork, etc. but it can be done. There is no need for an RFD to be involved and it means you can buy whatever you want without the usually 10 ten "Irish" waiting time.

    Definitely looks like an option , thanks lads ... I’ll go through guntrader again is there any other Uk based sites that yee would suggest


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    gearoidol wrote: »
    It is certainly made by Grs but differs slightly from the standard offerings
    How so?
    , I suppose I’m hoping the factory black wolf is better inletted and I wouldn’t need to bed it , where as I’d say I’d definitely have to bed a standard 85 in a standard grs stock
    Again not a major factor. If you're at all comfortable you could even do it yourself, but if not a gunsmith will do it.

    Second hand Sako would stand you what?, €1,000 to €1,500.
    GRS including duties about €500 - €650
    Inletting/bedding by yourself would cost materials only of about €50 or from an RFD €150 - €200.

    So for between €1,550 to €2,350 you have the rifle of your choice in the caliber of your choice in a stock of your choice for the same or most likely less than a new Black Wolf.


    Secondly there seems to be, and it was only a very quick search, some of the Sako Black Wolf rifles in stock in the UK. Not sure on caliber, but a Google search shows shops listing them as in stock. Personal import would take less than a month.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    How so?

    Again not a major factor. If you're at all comfortable you could even do it yourself, but if not a gunsmith will do it.

    Second hand Sako would stand you what?, €1,000 to €1,500.
    GRS including duties about €500 - €650
    Inletting/bedding by yourself would cost materials only of about €50 or from an RFD €150 - €200.

    So for between €1,550 to €2,350 you have the rifle of your choice in the caliber of your choice in a stock of your choice for the same or most likely less than a new Black Wolf.


    Secondly there seems to be, and it was only a very quick search, some of the Sako Black Wolf rifles in stock in the UK. Not sure on caliber, but a Google search shows shops listing them as in stock. Personal import would take less than a month.


    The stock on the black wolf is a different model to those on the website , slightly different design than the hunter and sporter, made exclusively for the black wolf


    Re stock in the UK , plenty of black wolfs but no 30.06 that I can see , on some of the sites ie sportsmanguncentre once you change to 30.06 it gives delivery date of Oct


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,712 ✭✭✭ Rows Grower
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    How so?

    Again not a major factor. If you're at all comfortable you could even do it yourself, but if not a gunsmith will do it.

    Second hand Sako would stand you what?, €1,000 to €1,500.
    GRS including duties about €500 - €650
    Inletting/bedding by yourself would cost materials only of about €50 or from an RFD €150 - €200.

    So for between €1,550 to €2,350 you have the rifle of your choice in the caliber of your choice in a stock of your choice for the same or most likely less than a new Black Wolf.


    Secondly there seems to be, and it was only a very quick search, some of the Sako Black Wolf rifles in stock in the UK. Not sure on caliber, but a Google search shows shops listing them as in stock. Personal import would take less than a month.[/QUOTE

    What is the procedure with this?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,555 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass
    Moderator


    What is the procedure with this?
    In short:
    • You get the serial number of the gun from the seller in the UK (say its an RFD for this example)
    • Apply to DoJ for a personal import of a firearm (its free and takes about a week)
    • Apply for a license on the firearm (you'll need this prior to importing)
    • Send the UK dealer the import license (keep a copy for yourself)
    • UK dealer sends rifle over with copy of import license and his export license
    • You collect at home or if you're using an RFD here, from the RFD. (however an RFD is not necessary otherwise they could just import it for you)
    That is a quick summary, but about all you need.

    Forum Charter - Useful Information - RFDs - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads


    If you see a problem post use the report post function, "FLAG" & let a Moderator deal with it.


    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭ Heavy handed
    Registered User


    Can see where your coming from. I’ve an 75 in 270 and a 85 in 243. If I was adding another it would have to be a sako again. I was looking at the black wolf and carbonlight myself in larger than the norm calibers here. Waiting for me isn’t an issue. I’ll gladly wait the stupid amount of months they quote to get a rifle I want instead of compromising for a different brand ( sako man through and through) I did raise the question with my local dealer and he told me he’ll gladly get a larger caliber in but don’t come back to him if I want to trade it and had no interest in stocking the Ammo for it either as the market is too small for he’s liking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,712 ✭✭✭ Rows Grower
    Registered User


    Cass wrote: »
    In short:
    • You get the serial number of the gun from the seller in the UK (say its an RFD for this example)
    • Apply to DoJ for a personal import of a firearm (its free and takes about a week)
    • Apply for a license on the firearm (you'll need this prior to importing)
    • Send the UK dealer the import license (keep a copy for yourself)
    • UK dealer sends rifle over with copy of import license and his export license
    • You collect at home or if you're using an RFD here, from the RFD. (however an RFD is not necessary otherwise they could just import it for you)
    That is a quick summary, but about all you need.

    Thanks for that Cass, everyday is a school day.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    Can see where your coming from. I’ve an 75 in 270 and a 85 in 243. If I was adding another it would have to be a sako again. I was looking at the black wolf and carbonlight myself in larger than the norm calibers here. Waiting for me isn’t an issue. I’ll gladly wait the stupid amount of months they quote to get a rifle I want instead of compromising for a different brand ( sako man through and through) I did raise the question with my local dealer and he told me he’ll gladly get a larger caliber in but don’t come back to him if I want to trade it and had no interest in stocking the Ammo for it either as the market is too small for he’s liking.

    I don’t mind waiting either , especially now the season is nearly over but apparently sako are not taking black wolf special orders as they are discontinuing them , not in their latest catalogue either ... So it seems you can’t get them even if you want to , not sure bout the carbon wolf or the carbon light ( even though I want a cheek riser)

    There is a smashing deal on this carbon wolf here but it’s probably too near the creedmoor to justify It

    https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/sako/bolt-action/270/85-carbon-wolf-near-new-200110083236001


  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭ Heavy handed
    Registered User


    gearoidol wrote: »
    I don’t mind waiting either , especially now the season is nearly over but apparently sako are not taking black wolf special orders as they are discontinuing them , not in their latest catalogue either ... So it seems you can’t get them even if you want to , not sure bout the carbon wolf or the carbon light ( even though I want a cheek riser)

    There is a smashing deal on this carbon wolf here but it’s probably too near the creedmoor to justify It

    https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/rifles/sako/bolt-action/270/85-carbon-wolf-near-new-200110083236001

    Have you looked into the 300WM or are these been phased out as well. Mush ask the local dealer when I meet him again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    Have you looked into the 300WM or are these been phased out as well. Mush ask the local dealer when I meet him again.

    There are a few win mags about but they are supposed to be a fair bit more of a handful than a 30.06 ... haven’t shot one myself


  • Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭ Heavy handed
    Registered User


    gearoidol wrote: »
    There are a few win mags about but they are supposed to be a fair bit more of a handful than a 30.06 ... haven’t shot one myself

    I’ve shot some sauer 7mm Rem mags and some 300wsm. They all kick like a mule in lighter weigh configurations.


  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    I’ve shot some sauer 7mm Rem mags and some 300wsm. They all kick like a mule in lighter weigh configurations.

    Have you shot any light 30.06 rigs ?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster
    Moderator


    A Sako Finn Light in 30-06 is 3.1Kg , stick a 436g Schmidt & Bender Klassik 6x42 plus 5 rnds of ammo and you've 3.536+Kg rifle thats very comfortable to shoot.

    I think stock design and scope set up has a lot to do with recoil management when dealing with anthing less then full bore calibres.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 509 ✭✭✭ gearoidol
    Registered User


    A Sako Finn Light in 30-06 is 3.1Kg , stick a 436g Schmidt & Bender Klassik 6x42 plus 5 rnds of ammo and you've 3.536+Kg rifle thats very comfortable to shoot.

    I think stock design and scope set up has a lot to do with recoil management when dealing with anthing less then full bore calibres.


    Thanks for that , an rfd I contacted has found a sako 85 carbon wolf in 30.06 in stock in the UK , cancelled order apparently , will be somewhere between €3.5k - €4K , have some thinking to do now .. if it was going to be my main rifle I’d go for it but not sure how it stacks up being my secondary . I got my rifle builder as well today and my new carbon barrelled bat will be ready in 3 weeks .. I’d be happy enough spending black wolf money but that carbon wolf is expensive


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