Dublin Airport Bus Service Changes

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478856#Comment_121478856

The only thing Aircoach will still have going for them is the south Dublin links at this rate.

stephenjmcd

Aircoach to make a submission to the NTA shortly to increase the frequency of the 702 to an hourly service.

No mention of earlier starts or later finishes just that it's being increased in frequency

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478968#Comment_121478968

About bloody time! Now if only the 703 frequency is increased

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478968#Comment_121478968

I'm afraid that statement people are reading too much into.

In September it was claimed that they will be making a submission to do the same. But here we are at the end of the year and still no submission has been made to the NTA.

The reason they keep talking about doing so in future rather than saying they have done it is because they're not going to do it until they are sure they can staff it. And that's a problem that has been ongoing for some time.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478952#Comment_121478952

Their own fault. The commercial management of that business over the last number of years has been appalling.

They are being schooled on every route they have competition on in everything from customer service to marketing and vehicle choice. And they've been cent wise and Euro foolish.

bk

Someone mentioned over on the Irish Transport Forum that DB will be using leased buses.

That actually makes some sense, the VG’s are likely too old now. On the other hand buying a whole new fleet, which would be a major investment, for a market that you might be unsure of would be a big ask. Perhaps better to lease for a year or two, see how the reintroduction of the service is going, what the competition is like versus DX/Aircoach, what is happening with Metrolink, etc.

With leased vehicles easier to cancel the service again if it doesn’t work out.

BTW if DB are smart they will use modern ticket machines with tap to pay on the service, like Aircoach do.

I agree completely Devnull that Aircoach have foolishly left a gap in the market. They should have at least introduced triaxles on the route to increase capacity or perhaps even overdeckers or the bus you linked too. All would have increased capacity without the need for increased drivers.

One thing though, you keep saying Airlink was cheaper, I could be wrong, but I don’t really remember it being much cheaper. I think it was €7 for a single, which is currently still the same price for Aircoach. So they will either need to use a much better vehicle to justify the same or similar price or charge a much cheaper price. Tough when you are leasing new vehicles.

Another thought, if this opportunity for extra route licenses to the airport were available like this, I’m kinda surprised Citylink or GoAhead didn’t jump at it. Citylink in particular with such a strong presence at the airport now.

It will be an intriguing battle, it is certainly a ballsy move by DB, though I’m not sure how it will work out. It will be very interesting to see what vehicles they use and the route.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121478856#Comment_121478856

I can't imagine there being much difference comfort wise between a bus with that kind of seating arrangement and a coach for a fairly short distance. Would also make life bit easier bringing on luggage and reduce dwell times.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481289#Comment_121481289

The advantage of the coach is you don’t have to bring the luggage onboard, it is put under the coach, often with good services it is done by the driver or other staff. It makes for a pretty relaxed ride too and from the airport. I often enjoy using airport coach services when travelling around Europe.

The odd time I’ve used a bus like the link, it is ok, but not half as nice as a coach. It will do if no other option or much cheaper, but I’d definitely spend an extra euro for a coach.

bk

BTW we are all assuming the DB will use city type buses, but if they are leasing new vehicles, it could even be coaches or even bendy buses (yeah I know very unlikely and highly ironic if they did).

I’ll put it out there, I know very unlikely, but I’ve always thought it would be nice to operate a BRT type service through the port tunnel to the airport. I was thinking of it in terms of a PSO service and it would be even more interesting if it could share the Luas red line track. Yes yes I know probably will never happen, but just an in thought.

StreetLight

I really don't understand this apparent airport service plan from Dublin Bus. When Covid struck, they didn't seem to lose much time in dropping the 747/757 and even going so far as to let the operating licence lapse. For a premium service, the 747 routing was infuriatingly getting stuck in chronic traffic around the city centre a lot of the time.

Now, post Covid, Dublin Bus are only just about managing to get by on operating their core services and even that is a struggle with driver recruitment still a problem years down the line. Dublin Express seem to be doing a damn good job with their offering. Leave them to it.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481979#Comment_121481979

Yeah I don't understand it either. Surely PSO services should be taking priority over introducing new commercial services. If anything DB should be removing commercial services like tours in order to focus on maintaining enough drivers for PSO routes.

Brian CivilEng

Monthly commuter tickets used work on Airlink, its loss was felt by staff. In my own experience it was a lot quicker loading at stops than Aircoach

Fares were €6 or €10 return, with 9 buses an hour during the summer and 6 during the winter between the 747 and 757. While public transport has recovered throughout the city since COVID, the mode share for buses at the airport is still way down, I’d say the loss of Airlink plays a large roll in that.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482076#Comment_121482076

I get it, but this sounds to me more like there is a missing PSO service.

Call it the AX or something like that, the normal city buses, but operating via the port tunnel non stop to the airport, normal leap fares, all the usual tax saver tickets, leap capping etc.

Of course DX/Aircoach would be opposed to that, but the argument would be that they are different services, city type service with little luggage space, versus premium coach.

And yes I’m aware of the issues with the 41 and Swords Express, but I think that was wrong.

There is some precedent for this, see 24/7 PSO services replacing Dublin Bus commercial Nitelink services.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483744#Comment_121483744

A route to the Airport via Ballymun is long overdue in my opinion. Always thought it would be logical for one of the routes terminating in Harristown to be extended to the Airport. The 4 would probably be best placed in my opinion.

Bus Connects fails to address this and actually sees a reduction in PSO services with the A2 expected to replace both the 16 and 41 to the Airport which could be the reason why DB are looking to bring back commercial services to the Airport as they know A2 won't be able to cope with the demand. Why not extend the E1 across the M50 to the Airport?

Also the Nitelinks have been PSO routes for some time now.

p_haugh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483800#Comment_121483800

If anything it should be the E2, the E1 is long enough as is with it going all the way out to Ballywaltrim. Have the E1 go to Charlestown instead with the E2 continuing onto the airport.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483800#Comment_121483800

Ah yes I forgot that the Nitelink was made PSO, but that is even more of an example of a commercial route turning into a PSO route so.

Perhaps a missed opportunity for the NTA to turn the 747 into a PSO service when DB cancelled it 2 years ago!

Agree completely that the reductions with the A2, etc are madness!

BTW now that I think about it, it was very weird that Airlink accepted the monthly/annual tickets. Does that mean the government was partly subsidising a commercial operator? Why wasn’t the same subsidy/arrangement made available to DX/Aircoach, much like the free travel pass is.

Kind of shows what a weird setup the Airlink had, city buses, operated (and owned) by DB, a commercial operation, yet seemingly partly subsidised by the government!

BTW just because Airlink accepted these tickets, I wouldn’t assume this reintroduced service will. That would likely require buy in from the NTA and I could see DX/Aircoach complaining.

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483848#Comment_121483848

Yeah possibly I was more thinking that because the E1 goes nearer to the Airport than the E2

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121483853#Comment_121483853

I would imagine that was a hangover from before the NTA was set up and before there was a clear distinction between PSO and commercial services. Also DB were on a net cost contract back then meaning they kept all farebox revenue now their on a gross cost contract meaning farebox revenue goes directly to the NTA and DB are paid on per km basis. I can't this being allowed now.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121477521#Comment_121477521

At the moment the problem at the airport is that one of the operators isn't doing a great job and there is more demand than there is capacity and offering a walk up and go double decker service with enhanced capacity would be a great USP, especially if it's priced between the standard bus and the Express Coaches. Right now if you don't pre-book your ticket in advance you could be waiting a while to board a service to the airport and we've also seen Aircoach in particular keeping people waiting at the airport stop a while after they've bought their tickets.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481273#Comment_121481273

An overdecker is completely unsuitable for a route from Dublin Suburbs and city centre to the Airport. Also they have much lower value on the second hand market if being purchased and far less ability to be redeployed. The same with bendy vehicles, the price of them is large and there is far less possibility of redeployment at a later date which makes leasing costs prohibitive if leasing and buying makes no sense either.

Aircoach should have either gone down the longer Triaxle coach route with say 67 seats or invested in double decker high spec bus vehicles. I know the argument will be they invested in triaxles and they got burnt before, but we're in a different environment right now where drives are a rare commodity, so if you are unable to increase capacity to match demand by frequency, people need to look outside the box. Sometimes radical solutions are needed.

bk

An overdecker is completely unsuitable for a route from Dublin Suburbs and city centre to the Airport.

An overdecker is typically the same length as a triaxle, so I don’t see why it would be any less suitable than a triaxle. The only issue is if the route passes under any bridges which I don’t remember the 700 route doing.

Fair enough on second hand market, I know that is an issue for double decker coaches.

. The same with bendy vehicles

Well first of all Aircoach is like the only company in Ireland who actually has bendy buses, for the airport car park service, so they have actual experience with them and if needs be, I don’t see why not.

However my suggestion on bendy buses was more an idea that has been in my head for a while now that I mentioned in another post. Basically I feel the NTA should have set up a PSO service that operates direct to the airport via the port tunnel and perhaps it could use BRT type buses, to hold us over until Metrolink is built.

I know it is unlikely to happen, but I do think it is a missed opportunity.

Brian CivilEng

A simple Luas shuttle bus between the airport and a the Luas stop at the Point Depot could have merit as it would avoid getting stuck in traffic. It’s a shame there is no easy connection between Clontarf Rd dart station and the tunnel exit, used break my heart when I used commute using the DART and 747, actually being able see the entrance to the tunnel from the train but knowing it would still be another half hour before my bus would pass through there.

devnull

CityLink and Gobus are now tracking on bustimes.org

https://bustimes.org/operators/citylink/vehicles

mikeybhoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121490406#Comment_121490406

Dublin Express and Aircoach 702/703 all serve the Point.

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489865#Comment_121489865

Dublin Coach run bendy buses on their 308/310 Limerick routes.

Brian CivilEng

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121542486#Comment_121542486

They don’t work well for staff, and you can’t use the €2 leap card fare on them.

devnull

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543092#Comment_121543092

Both operators have heavily discounted staff fares on showing of a DAA pass.

bk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543204#Comment_121543204

50% off I believe, so €4, which is a lot more then €2, and even more then the under 26 €1 fare. Plus can’t use it to then jump on the Luas/Dublin Bus\Dart and won’t work with monthly or annual tax saver tickets. So still works out a lot more expensive.

As I mentioned there really should be some sort of better PSO service operating to the airport.

Brian CivilEng

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543204#Comment_121543204

As stated, €4 ticket for staff, plus no transfers to other services. Also prebooked passengers are preferred to walk ups so no guarantee you’ll get on the first bus. It is not practical at all. I walk to Alsaa and pick up one of the buses on the Swords Rd rather than use those coaches.

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543341#Comment_121543341

I’ve said it before, what we have as PSO to the airport is a joke. The premium coach services for the most part, go for a different bunch of people.

The workers and locals really don’t want them and the high price. Equally the 16 (terrible for anyone that calls that an airport bus) or the heavily subscribed 41 are only adequate for local runs either side of the airport and not for airport to city centre.

A simple route using the infrastructure available would be great.

Along the lines of Connolly station (bus stops by the luas), left turn and travel along the luas tracks to near the Point, Port Tunnel and there. Pick up at luas stops like other countries do. Inbound, same onto the tracks after the point, right turn onto sheriff St. and into Connolly.

Simple, €2 route, running every 15 minutes for the hours of the airport. Part of the leap fare. Even a €1 premium if they wish, but part of the leap 90.

Left in place until Metro is up and running.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121543341#Comment_121543341

Issue with the ALSAA stop is that the arrival times for the 16/41 are fiction (as they can take utterly unpredictable times to load at the terminal) and both of them and the 41C may be completely full.

There is a dire need for a proper PSO Airport service.