Cap reform convergence

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

a friend who's a silage contractor tells me he has 20000 outstanding since 2020.
Mean, mean

It's probably 2-3 IFA members who owe him that

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

71000 members last year

Was in town meeting a few lads. One lad has Forrestry he is an IFA member. His only reason really is the deduction he gets on his insurance. IFA membership is mostly now lads w
Staying for phone and insurance discounts or family membership. At a guess I say there true membership is only a fraction of the 71k. It may be really in the 15-30k bracket.

Really funny one as well his daughter was getting car insurance and was told if she was a Macra member she get 125 euro off so she joined Macra for 40 euro and saved 80 on her insurance.

It's no wonder FBD us such a basket it basically funding Macra and the IFA

newholland mad

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's probably 2-3 IFA members who owe him that

Well it definitely isn't 2 or 3 members of the inhfa members, far more decent lads.

epfff

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's probably 2-3 IFA members who owe him that

I wouldn't consider 20k outstanding for 1 year to a contractor that much. My baling man is impossible to pay. I couldn't get him to take my 5k bill until last April.

Allegedly our local chair has 50k with one meal company and is no longer dealing with them he just doesn't pay for silage he gets in February/March locally and would tell you 'sher they had nothing to eat it and twas no good anyway'

The young lad driving harvester had to sit at gate and wait for cash before he was allowed start picking up silage last year from previous chair.
Wives are top of church people making big gestures when they have an audience.

I don't think there is a solution at the moment all elements of society are under pressure and annoyed with everyone as a result. I (part time farmer good job) had 2 points last night with builder friend(through the books few employees) Across from us were 3 lads drawing money from state(2 social welfare 1 getting 100k sfp) One works 6 days with farmers 100cash having to hide other works with blocklayer 80cash having to hide other is getting 10x the payment and allowed to work out in open on his own farm or anywhere else with no fear of payment been stopped. That's not a fair society but who is wrong. I think everyone thought the other was cheating system.

I am now starting to wonder why is the sfp any more than dole? EU no longer wants production. If they want environmental payments should be only for that.

epfff

epfff wrote: »

If they want environmental payments should be only for that.

Whatever about the infighting within farming about distribution of payments I wouldn't go reducing or hemming in the budget voluntarily.

On inspection there's a lot more you may be done for under the rules than the environment.

If the taxpayers want x,y, or z then stump up.

Or, you get the situation like designations, where laws are passed, you're told you're a great lad but all the same **** you we're not paying for the impositions placed on your land and business.

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was in town meeting a few lads. One lad has Forrestry he is an IFA member. His only reason really is the deduction he gets on his insurance. IFA membership is mostly now lads w
Staying for phone and insurance discounts or family membership. At a guess I say there true membership is only a fraction of the 71k. It may be really in the 15-30k bracket.

Really funny one as well his daughter was getting car insurance and was told if she was a Macra member she get 125 euro off so she joined Macra for 40 euro and saved 80 on her insurance.

It's no wonder FBD us such a basket it basically funding Macra and the IFA

Isn't it the same with any of the farm organisations, FBD would've had a large input into our junkets as well, it was the go to place for sponsorship always. same with Farmers journal. I think a percentage of their profits have to go to farmers

minerleague

I think IFA approach of looking for more and more subs as margins fell was shortsighted and easy / quick fix back the years. Very easy to cut payments now or even let inflation eat into them.

wrangler

minerleague wrote: »

I think IFA approach of looking for more and more subs as margins fell was shortsighted and easy / quick fix back the years. Very easy to cut payments now or even let inflation eat into them.

You've seen what you'll get from the factories, take what you can get from subs, Factories wont change.
We should be happy enough to take the subs and cut production, but thaat won't happen

JohnChadwick

So is the 85% convergence definitely gonna happen here now, or will it get flummoxed somehow?

Be good for me if it does as entitlements will go from 160/ha to 226/ha, apparently!

JohnChadwick

JohnChadwick wrote: »

So is the 85% convergence definitely gonna happen here now, or will it get flummoxed somehow?

Be good for me if it does as entitlements will go from 160/ha to 226/ha, apparently!

There's a bit more horse trading to do yet.

JohnChadwick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There's a bit more horse trading to do yet.

Yes can imagine. Surely looking good for 85 now tho.

JohnChadwick

JohnChadwick wrote: »

Yes can imagine. Surely looking good for 85 now tho.

Yes, but out of a pot comprising how much money will depend on what happens with other cogs, funding for CRISS for example, and the Eco Scheme figures. As well as whatever surprises are in store at home from our Minister for flexibility :rolleyes:

Don't do your figures yet.

wrangler

JohnChadwick wrote: »

So is the 85% convergence definitely gonna happen here now, or will it get flummoxed somehow?

Be good for me if it does as entitlements will go from 160/ha to 226/ha, apparently!

IT should be 85% by 2028, but 85% of what, the average payment won't be the same as it is now. If there's front loading, that'll be skimmed off the top of everyones payment.
IT looks like there's another year in the pesent system so I'll get another year outa my entitlements

kevthegaff

newholland mad wrote: »

Well it definitely isn't 2 or 3 members of the inhfa members, far more decent lads.

Lol

wrangler

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It's probably 2-3 IFA members who owe him that

Non payers are dirty f....rs, the lowest of the low

Bog Trotter99

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

But why should the public purse support those who have a second income?

Why should the public support any farming activity?

Why can't the farmers be allowed to sell their produce to who they want without being undercut by cheap imports just so the public can have cheap food and then complain about paying tax for subsidies?

If the public want the countryside kept well and the environment protected.
Why cant they pay the full cost of doing that instead of forcing farmers to do it all on the cheap and then complain about having to subsidise farmers with basically pennies?

wrangler

epfff wrote: »

I wouldn't consider 20k outstanding for 1 year to a contractor that much. My baling man is impossible to pay. I couldn't get him to take my 5k bill until last April.

Allegedly our local chair has 50k with one meal company and is no longer dealing with them he just doesn't pay for silage he gets in February/March locally and would tell you 'sher they had nothing to eat it and twas no good anyway'

The young lad driving harvester had to sit at gate and wait for cash before he was allowed start picking up silage last year from previous chair.
Wives are top of church people making big gestures when they have an audience.

I don't think there is a solution at the moment all elements of society are under pressure and annoyed with everyone as a result. I (part time farmer good job) had 2 points last night with builder friend(through the books few employees) Across from us were 3 lads drawing money from state(2 social welfare 1 getting 100k sfp) One works 6 days with farmers 100cash having to hide other works with blocklayer 80cash having to hide other is getting 10x the payment and allowed to work out in open on his own farm or anywhere else with no fear of payment been stopped. That's not a fair society but who is wrong. I think everyone thought the other was cheating system.

I am now starting to wonder why is the sfp any more than dole? EU no longer wants production. If they want environmental payments should be only for that.

That 20k was just last year, he has more in older debts.
Everyone under pressure is a poor excuse, does the contractor now have to take the hit for poor farming practise.
This contractor is young with a young family, It's a sad farmer that wouldn't pay him

epfff

wrangler wrote: »

That 20k was just last year, he has more in older debts.
Everyone under pressure is a poor excuse, does the contractor now have to take the hit for poor farming practise.
This contractor is young with a young family, It's a sad farmer that wouldn't pay him

Reality is the tab has to be picked up by paying customers

Bass Reeves

wrangler wrote: »

That 20k was just last year, he has more in older debts.
Everyone under pressure is a poor excuse, does the contractor now have to take the hit for poor farming practise.
This contractor is young with a young family, It's a sad farmer that wouldn't pay him

Bad debts are a part of any business. However contractors are often the architect's of there own downfall. Most have no billing system in place and trying to get a bill off them.as many know can be a nightmare.

This then lead to them being unaware of a bad payer until he owes substantial amounts to them. Recently I heard of a motorfactor's complaining that he had a couple 100 k outstanding. Again it was bad debt management. He had a habit of allowing excessive credit 6 months+ in cases before stopping supplying. This in a business where garages and mechanics are paid on the day by 90% of customers.

Another case I heard of an organic fruit and veg supplier to a restaurant who had an outstanding bill of 10k+. Restaurant owner called this day and the F&V man pointed out he needed some payment. Restaurant owner proceeded to make out a cheque for 500 euro, he took more than that of produce....and the cheque bounced

Bad debt provision and it management is part of any industry if you have a bad debt issue it usually your own fault as you are not managing the issue

Bass Reeves

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Bad debts are a part of any business. However contractors are often the architect's of there own downfall. Most have no billing system in place and trying to get a bill off them.as many know can be a nightmare.

This then lead to them being unaware of a bad payer until he owes substantial amounts to them. Recently I heard of a motorfactor's complaining that he had a couple 100 k outstanding. Again it was bad debt management. He had a habit of allowing excessive credit 6 months+ in cases before stopping supplying. This in a business where garages and mechanics are paid on the day by 90% of customers.

Another case I heard of an organic fruit and veg supplier to a restaurant who had an outstanding bill of 10k+. Restaurant owner called this day and the F&V man pointed out he needed some payment. Restaurant owner proceeded to make out a cheque for 500 euro, he took more than that of produce....and the cheque bounced

Bad debt provision and it management is part of any industry if you have a bad debt issue it usually your own fault as you are not managing the issue

My first thought earlier today was he should sell the debt to some less than nice people to collect. But, as you say, that thought was quickly followed by he probably has no bill or record or contract or much of anything in the line of a paper trail.

wrangler

Deleted User wrote: »

My first thought earlier today was he should sell the debt to some less than nice people to collect. But, as you say, that thought was quickly followed by he probably has no bill or record or contract or much of anything in the line of a paper trail.

Reminds me this morning I was pointing out to my neighbour their dog was a pain in the arse in our place and has been for a while.
She said she'd sort it and I responded that if she didn't I would. Now I'm wondering how to follow that...... can you shoot a dog now that's not being kept at home

Bog Trotter99

wrangler wrote: »

Reminds me this morning I was pointing out to my neighbour their dog was a pain in the arse in our place and has been for a while.
She said she'd sort it and I responded that if she didn't I would. Now I'm wondering how to follow that...... can you shoot a dog now that's not being kept at home

You could do but you could possibly lose your farm or spend 12 months in nick with Mr McBig who shares your cell and is a dog lover. So either way you could kiss your a*se goodbye.:)

Seriously though I dont think the law allows that.

wrangler

wrangler wrote: »

Reminds me this morning I was pointing out to my neighbour their dog was a pain in the arse in our place and has been for a while.
She said she'd sort it and I responded that if she didn't I would. Now I'm wondering how to follow that...... can you shoot a dog now that's not being kept at home

For just not being at home :pac:

If that's your intention I'd find out exactly what the law states from someone qualified tbh. I *think* you'd have a defense if it was actively worrying stock and the owner wasn't there. From memory shooting the dog is a last resort in a process of actions including allowing the owner opportunity to catch their dog.

Bog Trotter99

Deleted User wrote: »

For just not being at home :pac:

If that's your intention I'd find out exactly what the law states from someone qualified tbh. I *think* you'd have a defense if it was actively worrying stock and the owner wasn't there. From memory shooting the dog is a last resort in a process of actions including allowing the owner opportunity to catch their dog.

And thats only if it has been attacking the sheep or cattle.

wrangler

Bog Trotter99 wrote: »

And thats only if it has been attacking the sheep or cattle. Even then the owner could still sue.

I'm worried about my sheep when he's around :rolleyes:
That was the third attempt to get them to control their dog.
When we were lambing we'd often see him in the tunnel when we'd be checking the sheep on the camera.... at 3am. Not that I needed the camera to know he was around.... he ****es everywhere. It came to a head yeasterday when he levelled a couple of OHs flowerbeds
And we can't let my bitches out because he's like the ram effect on ewes........ Our bitches that never seem to come on heat but there seems to be at least one of them in heat all the timesince he came visiting and half the bitches around the area have had a litter of pups by him

Bog Trotter99

wrangler wrote: »

I'm worried about my sheep when he's around :rolleyes:
That was the third attempt to get them to control their dog.
When we were lambing we'd often in the tunnel when we'd be checking the sheep on the camera.... at 3am. Not that I needed the camera to know he was around.... he ****es everywhere. It came to a head yeasterday when he levelled a couple of OHs flowerbeds
And we can't let my bitches out because he's like the ram effect on ewes........ Our bitches that never seem to come on heat but there seems to be at least one of them in heat all the timesince he came visiting and half the bitches around the area have had a litter of pups by him

I am not sure it works that way if it gets nasty. Besides you are taking it out on the dog who knows no better because your neighbour is short of brain cells. All that will happen is they will have a grudge and seize their chance when it arises and just get another dog.

Would a better idea be to get hold of the dog then tell them it has caused lots of damage to stock and tell them you want compo as you have already been warned? Tell gards as well to back you up.

I bet you the dog isnt let loose again.

epfff

The mafia never left witnesses.

There was dog like that around here and he disappeared. I was going fishing with buddy when owner came up my drive and told me the kids dog I brought home previously that was after my sheep was gone from nearly a week again and he promised the kids he would look for him today (Sunday).
Naturally I hadn't seen or I would have dropped home again.
When he left the buddy said 'I thought you owed that lad money or something you acted strange when you seen him coming in'
Funny observation I thought.

Jim_11

wrangler wrote: »

I'm worried about my sheep when he's around :rolleyes:
That was the third attempt to get them to control their dog.
When we were lambing we'd often see him in the tunnel when we'd be checking the sheep on the camera.... at 3am. Not that I needed the camera to know he was around.... he ****es everywhere. It came to a head yeasterday when he levelled a couple of OHs flowerbeds
And we can't let my bitches out because he's like the ram effect on ewes........ Our bitches that never seem to come on heat but there seems to be at least one of them in heat all the timesince he came visiting and half the bitches around the area have had a litter of pups by him

The uncle had a lab about 20 years ago that ended up at an ex garda’s place after a bitch in heat, he was dropped home but had been neutered!

Had another really quiet lab that disappeared one day, dad put a lost sign up in the local shop after a week, a neighbouring farmer told the shopkeeper to let dad know that he’s wasting his time looking!

Castlekeeper

wrangler wrote: »

I'm worried about my sheep when he's around :rolleyes:
That was the third attempt to get them to control their dog.
When we were lambing we'd often see him in the tunnel when we'd be checking the sheep on the camera.... at 3am. Not that I needed the camera to know he was around.... he ****es everywhere. It came to a head yeasterday when he levelled a couple of OHs flowerbeds
And we can't let my bitches out because he's like the ram effect on ewes........ Our bitches that never seem to come on heat but there seems to be at least one of them in heat all the timesince he came visiting and half the bitches around the area have had a litter of pups by him

A bit of a Pat Mustard so!

jaymla627

wrangler wrote: »

Reminds me this morning I was pointing out to my neighbour their dog was a pain in the arse in our place and has been for a while.
She said she'd sort it and I responded that if she didn't I would. Now I'm wondering how to follow that...... can you shoot a dog now that's not being kept at home

Bring the dog for a drive and drop him off a good few mile from home, had a neospora outbreak here years ago and the neighbours setter was down in the calving shed at the time eating cows cleanings, neighbour was called 3 times to keep dog locked up and the issues we where having