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Election 2020

  • 19-01-2020 2:58am
    #1
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    So i've had a few people ask me about a dedicated thread for the upcoming election, so here you have it.

    Here you will be able to discuss political parties, candidates, and issues relating to shooting sports and the shooting community.

    You can give details or ask questions and solicit opinions on the above, but like with the rest of the forum there will be one or two guidelines. Such as no name calling, slanderous or defamatory posts about candidates. Get your point across by all means, but do so in a way that won't have your posts removed.


    A few tips when posting (tips, not requirements).

    If giving details on a party or candidate try to name them, their previous stance, their current stance and what they promise. Have they made similar promises or reversed their position on certain or all aspects of fieldsports/shooting.

    Also the district they represent and whether they are incumbent or a new candidate.

    In short as much info as you can and please make sure it is verifiable. Not "i heard from Tom, who heard from Dick who went to school with Harry, who is the brother of the candidate".


    So haveatit.

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    Your Shooting Forum Moderators - Cass, Cookimonster, Vegeta, Sparks, It wasn't me!



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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    I'm voting green. Happy to pay more Thunberg carbon taxes & get wolves reintroduced.
    Yes, I'll probably have to walk & throw stones at game but at least a penguin or two will live on.

    :D.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 40,053 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sparks


    FF - broke the economy, had the most corrupt politicians of the lot.
    FG - sold what was left, had the nastiest politicians of the lot.
    SF - wanted to blow up the place for 30 years.
    Greens - at least half of them are the old anti-vaccination, pro-homeopathy, anti-fluoridation, pro-very expensive water filters that their friends sold. The other half seem to have a racist tree policy, which I didn't think was possible.
    Labour - would you like FF labour or FG labour?
    Independents - save me. Most of them I wouldn't trust alone near the family dog. Any family's dog.


    You really shouldn't have to hold your nose this hard when voting....


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Does it really matter ? I remember the exact same conversation between my father and an uncle over 40 years ago, nothing has really changed, and i doubt it ever will. Anyway aren't we run by Dennis o'Brien, George Soros, Tony Blair, the boring belgians, haughty frogs and the Germans in the eu ?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    tudderone wrote: »
    Does it really matter ?
    YES, GOD YES.

    I've heard people say it doesn't matter who you vote for, just vote. Good sentiment, but wrongly worded. It should be No matter who you vote for, vote.

    Was reading some stats on the last election. More people DID NOT vote than voted for any one party. So out of some 3.2 million people eligible to vote only 2.1 million people voted. So a turnout of about 60%.

    Would we be better off if the other 1.1 million voted? Who knows. Who knows who would be in power, what form that Government would take, etc. However that same 1.1 million will sit and bitch about the state of the country, the economy, health service, etc. but cannot take 10 minutes to actively take part.

    I echoed Sparks comments in this post and it does leave you with a head scratching situation. However change won't happen if people think there is no point to voting, that it won't make a difference or that its simply voting for the same.

    Hell if a load of independent were voted in it'd be messy as hell, but they would provide enough of a resistance (God willing) with such a plethora of view points that the majority party wouldn't have an easy time of it.

    As of the dissolution of the last Government FF abstained from numerous votes that could have removed Ministers that were failing in the oath of office, but now use those Ministers as examples of what is wrong with the opposition party. Guess what, ye kept them there and FG in power. So you're as guilty as they are.

    FF are under the impression that enough time has passed that we won't remember that our great grandchildren will still be paying off our debt to the EU for the bailout. We pay, i believe i'm right, €1.3 billion per year (or €25 million per WEEK) which is mostly interest which continues to rise year on year. The banks that were bailed out pay no tax on their profits with AIB alone reporting 1.6 BILLION in pre-tax profits last year.

    As i said in another thread get out and vote. Fill out your ballots completely, and take the time to do it. Don't just fill in 1, 2 and 3 then leave. Complete all the boxes. Partially filled ballots are why we get the likes of Finian McGrath and Deasy-esques in office.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭ useurowname


    Sparks wrote: »
    FF - broke the economy, had the most corrupt politicians of the lot.
    FG - sold what was left, had the nastiest politicians of the lot.
    SF - wanted to blow up the place for 30 years.
    Greens - at least half of them are the old anti-vaccination, pro-homeopathy, anti-fluoridation, pro-very expensive water filters that their friends sold. The other half seem to have a racist tree policy, which I didn't think was possible.
    Labour - would you like FF labour or FG labour?
    Independents - save me. Most of them I wouldn't trust alone near the family dog. Any family's dog.


    You really shouldn't have to hold your nose this hard when voting....


    Funny but all too true.
    I’ve always thought the best thing about Ireland was it’s people the worst thing was it’s politics
    I’ll always vote though, gotta exercise that right
    I’m voting Greens for the first time, I strongly believe in the danger of climate change, anyone who shoots duck and has witnessed the disappearance of winter duck on our loughs in the past 15 years cannot deny it.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 95 ✭✭ Limerick Sovereigns


    Cass wrote: »
    YES, GOD YES.

    Complete all the boxes. Partially filled ballots are why we get the likes of Finian McGrath and Deasy-esques in office.

    Nice to see that Finian won’t be running for re-election. Good riddance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,280 ✭✭✭ tudderone


    Funny but all too true.
    I’ve always thought the best thing about Ireland was it’s people the worst thing was it’s politics
    I’ll always vote though, gotta exercise that right
    I’m voting Greens for the first time, I strongly believe in the danger of climate change, anyone who shoots duck and has witnessed the disappearance of winter duck on our loughs in the past 15 years cannot deny it.

    If you vote for the watermelons, the lack of ducks will be the least of your worries. They are the Dublin 4 dinner party-party. City dwelling upper middle class do-gooders with not a clue what to do about climate change, apart from taxing the living fcuk out of everything. They are also anti-gun and anti-game shooting.

    As i heard someone in Europe say, the whole green thing has been a gift to governments, it has people protesting outside parliaments for taxes to be increased.

    If the greens got power, you would be paying 2.50 for a litre of petrol/diesel, home heating gas and oil taxed out of affordability, electricity taxed out of it too, and all the money collected wasted on fanciful nonsense.




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    I’m voting Greens for the first time

    Please God you're joking - I certainly was!
    I'd suffer the monster raving loony party before I'd vote for that shower. They are probably the most anti-shooting, anti-hunting, anti-rural groups (all two TDs is it?).
    Sparks wrote: »
    Independents - save me. Most of them I wouldn't trust alone near the family dog. Any family's dog.

    Arra hold on now a second Sparks - it's not right tarring them all with the same brush.
    I think the Healy-Raes have a lot going for themselves :D.


  • Registered Users Posts: 511 ✭✭✭ solarwinds


    I’m voting Greens for the first time, I strongly believe in the danger of climate change, anyone who shoots duck and has witnessed the disappearance of winter duck on our loughs in the past 15 years cannot deny it.

    I wouldn't count on the greens to do anything about the environment or nature for that matter. They done SWFA positive the last time they had a bit of power, and now because the whole world is gone green mad, they are been seen seen as some kind of saviour with all the solutions to our problems.
    Unfortunately the only thing they have going for them and that is making them popular is, they have Green in their name and that is where they end.
    They will do nothing but tax the crap out of us, make us all walk and have sticks as pets because we will no longer be allowed to keep cats and dogs, sure what do you expect their wolves to eat.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Kramer wrote: »
    I think the Healy-Raes have a lot going for themselves :D.


    Nope, not falling it.

    giphy.gif

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,177 ✭✭✭ Kramer


    screenshot-2018-02-07-at-13-55-10-752x501.png

    Two seats, same as the greens. Might garner ministries from the next administration, depending on how the numbers pan out.

    Danny would be well up for the environmental portfolio anyway :D.

    We're doomed, whatever we do :o.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭ gozunda


    With the upcoming shenanigans - might be an idea to drill any doorstep election agents on their stance with regard to rural issues and country pursuits.

    Noticing some stuff already being pushed online from the usual sources spouting rubbish.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,124 BryanL


    One of my deer permissions borders Healy rae country. I was having a coffee with the family recently and the woman there in her 70's mentioned she'd had her knee done. I asked about it and she told me she got the "Healy Rae bus to belfast and got it done up there" in 6 weeks.

    She has VHI and a medical card but would have been waiting narly 2 years to have it done in Cork. The Healy Rae's had her sorted in 6 weeks. Gob****es they may be but they garner support.

    In this election I care mostly about what the representitives in my area will do for hunting and human welfare.

    The greens did nothing in government only ban one pack hunting deer. That isn't going to reverse climate change only TAX TAx TAX.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    Not entirely sure what you mean:
    Cass
    As i said in another thread get out and vote. Fill out your ballots completely, and take the time to do it. Don't just fill in 1, 2 and 3 then leave. Complete all the boxes. Partially filled ballots are why we get the likes of Finian McGrath and Deasy-esques in office.

    But, IMO, I would strongly disagree in filling or ticking all the boxes. It is the transfereance of votes that sees others get in. Pick your candidates and only vote for them or thier party other wise your throwing votes at the other ones.

    On the subject of the Greens, I rather vote a bunch of terrorists into the Dail. These people tend to come from a demographics that either have little life experince and don't really pay thier way in life, have enough money as to buy €5.00 euro gluten free, organic,vegan and innocent loaves of bread. Don't care that widowers on pensions can't afford bin charges, carbon taxes etc etc. Many have no idea about home grown environmental concerns, would wipe out farming here while contributing to overseas destruction so they may, by way of virtue signalling show off to those who care to watch.

    Get the boat, they, the great ignorant, green tea drinking masses are the long term threat to society with thier knee jerk reactions that will last longer then a discarded plastic cup.


    Rant over....


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,259 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Funny but all too true.
    I’ve always thought the best thing about Ireland was it’s people the worst thing was it’s politics
    I’ll always vote though, gotta exercise that right
    I’m voting Greens for the first time, I strongly believe in the danger of climate change, anyone who shoots duck and has witnessed the disappearance of winter duck on our loughs in the past 15 years cannot deny it.

    Are you feeling alright?Did you have a head injury recently?
    Voting for the water melons and being a gun owner/hunter is akin to admitting you think you are Napoleon ,so Id be handing in my boom sticks to my local dealer until I regained my senses and felt a lot better.(So long as you stay off any Lithium based meds too,98%of shooters in the US were on or off,depending their anti depressants. )
    You are voting for a global ,best way to describe them ,as a global religios death cult (It has all the trademarks of a cult)that wants to take us back to beyond mediveal times,and have adopted some rather nasty ideals of Hitlers party on pouplation control,and farming, as well as animal rights.Id suggest to anyone having a good read of Peter Delingpole's book" Water melons "to see the extent of the con job on mankind this whole movement has been since its foundation.Delingpole BTW is the guy who exposed "climate gate "...Remember that?yeah its hard.. The MSM and global hoaxers wish you didnt know about it...
    As for Greens and guns.Remember that ex Waterford surf chick senator now MEP...God help us...Grace O Sullivan and her comments on gun ownership post the Christchurch massacre here in Ireland??? Her knowledge of NZ gun laws?She wasnt on the Rainbow Warrior when the French did a good nights work,but still managed to fuk it up by by sinking it and getting caught.So that makes her an "Irish expert "on all things NZ and fit to comment on NZ gun laws...
    Not to forget that it it was a Swedish Green ,Cecila Maelestrom that triggered and campaigned for the EU gun ban,when the bodies of the Paris massacre were still above ground.Indirectly,you can thank her that you now must transport your ammo about the place in a locked receptacle...And if it hadnt been for the likes of FUN,the majority of us wouldn't have a semi auto shotgun here,because of Green gun ban plans.
    Dont even start me on the German Greens and their anti hunting and gun banning stances since the 1960s.Its a default setting of them globally.Witness Australia and the Adler lever action shotgun debacle 2 years ago,as well as the annual anti duck hunting protests down there.
    And lets not forget Eamon Ryans Stalinist plans for one car for 10 fammlies in rural Ireland...Even Chairman Mao would say thats pushing things abit far.

    Its your vote,but suggesting voting Green on a pro gun group,is like suggesting to your local Iman that he has a pork BBQ, and beer keg party served by bikini clad blondes in his mosque to improve the image of Islam.

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭ useurowname


    I am Napoleon.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,259 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Ok your Execellency.There will be two large gentlemen around most shortly to your imperial palace,all dressed in white.They shall bid you to enter a white horseless caarige,to convey you to your new empire.A larger palace on a hill,with very high walls for your protection,and where many of their kind shall do your bidding for evermore.:)

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭ useurowname


    Do you envisage that this Palace will contain other potential Green Party voters ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,259 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    In the meantimne I think I shall tke Mr Geo Carlins advice on elections this time round. As there is ZERO politicans or party that I consider worthy of a vote.Even on the minority groups or the supposed "Alt right" here:rolleyes::rolleyes: The Left...Lets not even go there.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
    Over to You George on elections and Voting.




    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Registered Users Posts: 382 ✭✭ hiddenmongoose


    I cannot believe that someone here actually is considering voting for the greens. No need to explain my stance on why the greens are a terrible idea as lads have already covered it. genuinely shocked a person that enjoys fieldsports and the countryside would vote for the greens


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  • Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭ useurowname


    Well I’m genuinely concerned about climate Change and I don’t believe FFG will do enough so it’s my way of expressing my grave concern.
    I’m sick of broken promises on everything else as I don’t believe any of the main parties on anything.

    As for field sports, they are dying a death anyway there simply isn’t wild game enough to make a season, I can’t justify taking Woodcock or Snipe anymore, I haven't seen Widgeon in years and Pochard forget about them. So that leaves pigeons and reared Pheasants that are nowadays little more than clay pigeons with feathers, that’s not hunting in my book.

    So that’s that Napoleon.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    BryanL wrote: »
    I asked about it and she told me she got the "Healy Rae bus to belfast and got it done up there" in 6 weeks.

    She has VHI and a medical card but would have been waiting narly 2 years to have it done in Cork. The Healy Rae's had her sorted in 6 weeks. Gob****es they may be but they garner support.
    Anyone can do that.

    They book the buses ONLY. The patients pay for the buses, they also have to pay for the surgery (its NOT free) and then when they return they can claim the cost of the surgery back from the HSE.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    But, IMO, I would strongly disagree in filling or ticking all the boxes. It is the transfereance of votes that sees others get in. Pick your candidates and only vote for them or thier party other wise your throwing votes at the other ones.
    If you number each box then as the votes get transferred with each count, and as each seat is filled, then your vote may go to the next person, but in order of the number of votes for them. If you leave the majority of your voting ballot blank after picking the first three choices then the votes are transferred proportionally and not by voter choice.

    IOW leaving the ballot only partially filled in will do the exact thing you are concerned about.

    If in doubt count the number of candidates and if there are say 15, start with your least favorite and work up to number 1. However fill in ALL the boxes/numbers.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    Well I’m genuinely concerned about climate Change ............
    Don't worry. The billions we'll pay in redundant carbon taxes will allow the Government to stand at the cliffs and throw wads of cash at the coming storm(s). Cos you know, taxes always solve problems. :rolleyes:

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    By the way i think i'm going to pull my hair out if i hear/see another person moaning about the TD pay rise.

    Yes i believe they are paid too much for the population/size of this country, but €5,000 per year for 158 TDs is €790,000 PER YEAR.

    Compare that to the €5 increase in welfare that is paid WEEKLY and it amounts to €121,000,000 per year.

    Meaning the TD pay rise is 0.5% of the total cost of a, albeit tiny, increase in welfare payments.

    I know i'm as shocked as everyone that i'm arguing on behalf of TDs, but lets not blow something out of proportion that is a giant nothing burger.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 182 ✭✭ p28559


    " If you leave the majority of your voting ballot blank after picking the first three choices then the votes are transferred proportionally and not by voter choice."


    i thought that after they counted, for example, your 3 preferences out of how ever many,then that was the end of your ballot paper. there is no proportional trans where there is no preference?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,259 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Well I’m genuinely concerned about climate Change and I don’t believe FFG will do enough so it’s my way of expressing my grave concern.
    I’m sick of broken promises on everything else as I don’t believe any of the main parties on anything.

    As for field sports, they are dying a death anyway there simply isn’t wild game enough to make a season, I can’t justify taking Woodcock or Snipe anymore, I haven't seen Widgeon in years and Pochard forget about them. So that leaves pigeons and reared Pheasants that are nowadays little more than clay pigeons with feathers, that’s not hunting in my book.

    So that’s that Napoleon.

    Have you considerd more local changes in the biotope of where you hunt as a more logical explanation,as well as other factors apart from hysterics about a disproven,false theory being propagated by a multi trillion industry cum cult?
    ?

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 27,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cass


    p28559 wrote: »
    i thought that after they counted, for example, your 3 preferences out of how ever many,then that was the end of your ballot paper. there is no proportional trans where there is no preference?
    I, as always, stand open to correction on this but here is my understanding.

    There are 14 candidates for four seats (pure made up example).

    If everyone votes only marking their first few choices for candidates:

    The person selects their preferred three candidates for the four seats and ticks the ballot 1, 2, 3, 4 in order of their preference and leaves the rest blank. As the votes are counted and candidates with low results are eliminated the excess votes on both ends of the scale are spread across the remaining candidates in a proportional way as only four candidates were selected from the entire field of candidates.

    While one or two candidates that were first and second choice on the majority of people's ballots get elected the third and fourth seat may be filled due to non specified votes spread across the remaining candidates. This means that the third and fourth seat may be filled by "unexpected" candidate.

    If everyone votes marking their choices for all candidates:

    The person selects all the candidates in order of their preference marking them 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 12, 13, 14 leaving no blank boxes. Now as each seat is filled and candidates are eliminated due to low counts and the remaining votes transferred the votes are spread to specific candidates according to the number of second, third, fourth, fifth, etc, etc. votes they received.


    God i hope i got that right. So it's important that each candidate is marked with a numerical preference from first to last. As the votes are transferred the the seats will be filled based on the determination by the voters' stated preferences.

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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 2,759 Mod ✭✭✭✭ cookimonster


    I don't know,........

    I thought in essence you have only one vote, but you may also have 2nd,3rd, 4th etc preferences. If your No1 doesn't get in your 2nd preference gets your vote, and this goes on until you run out of preferences and your vote has no power.

    Think about it, if I had fourteen candidate's on my ballad paper and I only want one of them to be elected, why in hell would I willingly give a vote to the opposition even as a 2nd, 3rd, 4th etc etc preferences.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,259 ✭✭✭✭ Grizzly 45


    Only 2 countres use proportional repersentation in the EU,Us and Malta.The rest are first past the post.... I wonder why???

    Confucius say."He who says one man cannot change World. Never has eaten bat soup in Wuhan!"



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