Cocaine

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 1:32pm

guy2231 wrote: »

We could do what Portugal did, decriminalise small amounts of all drugs and use the money we would save by helping addicts get past their addiction by offering them treatment and life opportunities.

absolutely agree, but its important to remember, this approach is also fraught with problems, theres nothing easy about addictive substances

Chavez. · 24-05-2021 1:34pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

absolutely agree, but its important to remember, this approach is also fraught with problems, theres nothing easy about addictive substances

I'm thinking legalization needs to be done in the context of a working expansive healthcare system

guy2231 · 24-05-2021 1:35pm

Strumms wrote: »

We should deter people further from going down that path.

Tough sentences for both use and supply of drugs...

Fûck this idea that addicts are victims, they are not...

They have made choices that are detrimental to the health and wellbeing of themselves and the state...

We’ve almost developed an ‘awhhh’ attitude to addiction and drug addiction / use...

Education is in the school, they are ‘choosing’ a path, a life, why should the rest of us have to foot the fücking bill ?

What an absolute joke, how stupid can you be to believe something like this?

Honestly you made me laugh how ridiculously dumb you sound.

guy2231 · 24-05-2021 1:36pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

absolutely agree, but its important to remember, this approach is also fraught with problems, theres nothing easy about addictive substances

What kind of problems?

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 1:37pm

Strumms wrote: »

We should deter people further from going down that path.

Tough sentences for both use and supply of drugs...

Fûck this idea that addicts are victims, they are not...

They have made choices that are detrimental to the health and wellbeing of themselves and the state...

We’ve almost developed an ‘awhhh’ attitude to addiction and drug addiction / use...

Education is in the school, they are ‘choosing’ a path, a life, why should the rest of us have to foot the fücking bill ?

oh this bullsh!t!

so fill up jails, build more jails....wont work...

victims of complete societal failures, absolutely

yes the mentally unwell mind is prone to poor choices, we already know this....

yes we have indeed, we have an absolute refusal to accept addiction is far more complex, and addicts need particular types of professional help, so we ve decided, ah fcuk it, lets ignore it, surely it ll go away!

yup, theres something fundamentally wrong with our educational system, which is an element of such outcomes

funnily enough, we re on a similar page after all that!

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 1:41pm

Chavez. wrote: »

I'm thinking legalization needs to be done in the context of a working expansive healthcare system

absolutely, we would need to radically change our health system, for such an approach

guy2231 wrote: »

What kind of problems?

id imagine if you spoke with people living and working in Portugal, theyd have a very different view on this, id imagine their radical change has been a nightmare in many ways. ive heard harassment of tourists is common, but id imagine its much deeper than this, we must always remember, theres nothing simple about addictive substances, they will probably always be problematic, no matter what management approach we take

guy2231 · 24-05-2021 1:43pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

absolutely agree, but its important to remember, this approach is also fraught with problems, theres nothing easy about addictive substances

When drugs were decriminalised in Portugal most people around the world believed drug addiction would skyrocket, the opposite happened mainly because they used the money they previously used on punishing addicts and used the money instead on drug treatment and offering them opportunities to change their lives like jobs and treatment.

If anyone wants to know more about addiction check out the Ted talks on youtube a good example in the video is a study on rats, rats who had big cages with lots of things to do and rat friends to play with almost never touched the cocaine water apart from a couple of times but the rats who were in cages alone with nothing to do and no other rats to socialise with almost always drank the cocaine water and would eventually kill themselves with it.

Very similar to how humans behave with hard drugs in general.

Ash.J.Williams · 24-05-2021 1:46pm

Tomaldo wrote: »

They weren't always rich, they became wealthier AFTER they took it. Anyway as far as I know, rich people only have one body, the same as everyone else.

Just for record there’s no money in album sales anymore so you probably won’t get rich after develop a habit these days

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 1:46pm

guy2231 wrote: »

When drugs were decriminalised in Portugal most people around the world believed drug addiction would skyrocket, the opposite happened mainly because they used the money they previously used on punishing addicts and used the money instead on drug treatment and offering them opportunities to change their lives like jobs and treatment.

If anyone wants to know more about addiction check out the Ted talks on youtube a good example in the video is a study on rats, rats who had big cages with lots of things to do and rat friends to play with almost never touched the cocaine water apart from a couple of times but the rats who were in cages alone with nothing to do and no other rats to socialise with almost always drank the cocaine water and would eventually kill themselves with it.

Very similar to how humans behave with hard drugs in general.

we re all aware of these positives, but we d be extremely naïve to think its all roses!

guy2231 · 24-05-2021 1:55pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we re all aware of these positives, but we d be extremely naïve to think its all roses!

No one is saying it would be all roses but it would be far better than what we have now.

I asked you what you thought the negatives in Portugal were and all you could say is something about tourists being harassed, I don't see many negatives about it.

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2021 1:55pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

we re all aware of these positives, but we d be extremely naïve to think its all roses!

I don't think anybody would claim it is all roses. That is no reason to dismiss the idea.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 1:59pm

guy2231 wrote: »

No one is saying it would be all roses but it would be far better than what we have now.

I asked you what you thought the negatives in Portugal were and all you could say is something about tourists being harassed I don't see many negatives about it.

for the moment, its the oly answer i have, but we must be very realistic here, i guarantee you some issues have escalated in Portugal, over the last few years

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I don't think anybody would claim it is all roses. That is no reason to dismiss the idea.

im not dismissing it at all, i actually agree with legalisation, but.....

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2021 2:01pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

for the moment, its the oly answer i have, but we must be very realistic here, i guarantee you some issues have escalated in Portugal, over the last few years

What issues are you referring to?

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im not dismissing it at all, i actually agree with legalisation, but.....

we had people on here saying it was a terrible idea because they were offered drugs on the streets of lisbon.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 2:04pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

What issues are you referring to?

i dont know, i dont have any ideas, but we must always remember, there is nothing simple about highly addictive substances, all management approaches would be problematic, including Portugals approach

we had people on here saying it was a terrible idea because they were offered drugs on the streets of lisbon.

yes, this is one such issue ive heard, this obviously would have a knock on effect to tourist industries, but id imagine theres far deeper issues going on also

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2021 2:05pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes, this is one such issue ive heard, this obviously would have a knock on effect to tourist industries, but id imagine theres far deeper issues going on also

but you don't know what they are?

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 2:08pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

but you don't know what they are?

no, because i havent looked into it, again, theres nothing simple about addictive substances, they will always introduce complexities and dysfunctions, period, no matter what management approach is used

Strumms · 24-05-2021 2:09pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

oh this bullsh!t!

so fill up jails, build more jails....wont work...

victims of complete societal failures, absolutely

yes the mentally unwell mind is prone to poor choices, we already know this....

yes we have indeed, we have an absolute refusal to accept addiction is far more complex, and addicts need particular types of professional help, so we ve decided, ah fcuk it, lets ignore it, surely it ll go away!

yup, theres something fundamentally wrong with our educational system, which is an element of such outcomes

funnily enough, we re on a similar page after all that!

Society isn’t failing these people. They are failing society.

What percentage of drug users / addicts are ‘ mentally unwell ‘ ?

You are looking for excuses. Another person who is chomping at the bit to excuse people from being responsible and taking responsibility for the choices which they make in life and the dreadful impacts those choices make on law abiding citizens...and society as a whole.

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2021 2:11pm

Strumms wrote: »

Society isn’t failing these people. They are failing society.

What percentage of drug users / addicts are ‘ mentally unwell ‘ ?

You are looking for excuses. Another person who is chomping at the bit to excuse people from being responsible and taking responsibility for the choices which they make in life and the dreadful impacts those choices make on law abiding citizens...and society as a whole.

how is the current criminalisation of drugs working out? going well, is it?

Strumms · 24-05-2021 2:13pm

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

how is the current criminalisation of drugs working out? going well, is it?

Compared to if it wasn’t criminalized ? Completely.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 2:15pm

Strumms wrote: »

Society isn’t failing these people. They are failing society.

What percentage of drug users / addicts are ‘ mentally unwell ‘ ?

You are looking for excuses. Another person who is chomping at the bit to excuse people from being responsible and taking responsibility for the choices which they make in life and the dreadful impacts those choices make on law abiding citizens...and society as a whole.

...again, more bullsh!t and ignorance

addiction is a sign of multi system failure, particularly health care system failure

you truly do need to research this stuff, addiction is the sign of underlying psychological issues and disorders, which can be varied beyond belief.

take an ould trip to your local psychic ward, and see for yourself

we have been playing the ould 'personnel responsibility' game for a while now, its clearly failing, this is clearly obvious

ohnonotgmail · 24-05-2021 2:17pm

Strumms wrote: »

Compared to if it wasn’t criminalized ? Completely.

what are you basing that opinion on?

Chavez. · 24-05-2021 2:21pm

The current Garda strategy targeting cannabis and youths
, is this a thought-out strategy or where did it originate ?

I can see how charging young people and then giving them the option of voluntary drug testing and probation should work

Strumms · 24-05-2021 2:24pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...again, more bullsh!t and ignorance

addiction is a sign of multi system failure, particularly health care system failure

you truly do need to research this stuff, addiction is the sign of underlying psychological issues and disorders, which can be varied beyond belief.

take an ould trip to your local psychic ward, and see for yourself

we have been playing the ould 'personnel responsibility' game for a while now, its clearly failing, this is clearly obvious

Bullshît ? Classy response. A really well thought out argument.

Addiction is as the result of choices, the wrong choices... nobody else to blame.

A psychic ward ? I presume you meant psychiatric ward ? Those conditions in the main are as a result of drug abuse, drug use. Read about it.

Personal responsibility fails ? It does when people refuse to be responsible for their choices and instead seek to blame everyone else.

24-05-2021 2:33pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

................

we have been playing the ould 'personnel responsibility' game for a while now, its clearly failing, this is clearly obvious

No we haven't, folk with multiple convictions are wandering around the streets indulging in illegal activity while being on JSA and housed at the taxpayers expense after fathering several children who are unlikely to contribute to society as their parents are wasters.

If these cnuts actually had to serve their full sentances in jail they wouldn't be out reproducing, taking up housing and wasting JSA whilst not looking for work.

We don't play personal responsibility at all in Ireland.
We should give it a try for a few decades IMO.

24-05-2021 2:34pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...............................

take an ould trip to your local psychic ward, and see for yourself ..........

In%20Tarot%20Veritas%20Tarot%20Cards%20Phychic%20Rea.webp

guy2231 · 24-05-2021 2:58pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes, this is one such issue ive heard, this obviously would have a knock on effect to tourist industries, but id imagine theres far deeper issues going on also

I've been to many tourist hotspots in Spain I was being offered drugs constantly by people standing on the street selling them, Portugal didn't decriminalise drug dealing it's still illegal to do so.

I don't see how people offering you drugs on the street would decrease tourism anymore than heroin addicts crawling all over Dublin city centre does.

ChickenDish · 24-05-2021 3:02pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

ive never touched an illegal drug, thank god, and im at the point, legalise the lot, yes it ll be extremely problematic, extremely risky and extremely dangerous to do so, but.......

Believe me, you really don't want to be in a society were being a coke fiend is easy as buying a 6 pack.

Class A drugs are a scourge on the world, legalising them will have the exact same effect as opioids prescribed en masse in the states did. Millions of Americans are addicted to prescribed meds in America. The world doesn't need more people taking more drugs.

Tomaldo · 24-05-2021 3:11pm

2011 wrote: »

....and that is a topic for a different thread.

The OP's question that so many coke heads in this thread are avoiding is "do you think cocaine users in Ireland have some responsibility for the gang warfare that is destroying parts of the country?"

Fair enough. Michael McDowell, when he was MoJ, said someone from an affluent area who takes drugs is responsible for the shooting of somebody in a working class community. That was well over a decade ago, so it would appear or it's obvious that drug users or "coke heads" care as much about gang warfare as prohibitionists do, very little.

Tomaldo · 24-05-2021 3:14pm

Posters talking a lot about addicts but they're a small minority of drug users. I know many people who take coke but they only do it at weekends or special events, then it's back to work on Monday, where they DO contribute to society. They don't seek or need state treatment for their habit.

Chavez. · 24-05-2021 3:16pm

Tomaldo wrote: »

Posters talking a lot about addicts but they're a small minority of drug users. I know many people who take coke but they only do it at weekends or special events, then it's back to work on Monday, where they DO contribute to society. They don't seek or need state treatment for their habit.

What are they like when they're out

Prob not great

Cocaine

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