Saracens Salarygate: Automatic Relegation?

BonnieSituation · 17-01-2020 08:21PM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Remember the whole spiel Wray and co were spinning about players not joining Saracens just for the money, but the culture.... I have a feeling that's soon to bite them in the arse.

I have to say I've been sniggering at all the comments on here expressing "sympathy for their fans".

I mean? Really?

prawnsambo · 17-01-2020 08:23PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I have to say I've been sniggering at all the comments on here expressing "sympathy for their fans".

I mean? Really?

To be fair, the fans are guilty of nothing more than a bit of uppityness from winning stuff. Something I'd say we all could be accused of.

BonnieSituation · 17-01-2020 08:29PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

To be fair, the fans are guilty of nothing more than a bit of uppityness from winning stuff. Something I'd say we all could be accused of.

I dunno. I can't say that I'm not taking incredible pleasure at the demise of them tbh. The fans hurt being factored into it, in a Scott Tenorman style way.

Former Former · 17-01-2020 08:34PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I dunno. I can't say that I'm not taking incredible pleasure at the demise of them tbh. The fans hurt being factored into it, in a Scott Tenorman style way.

That's a horrible attitude. The fans didn't cause this. Jesus.

17-01-2020 08:34PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

To be fair, the fans are guilty of nothing more than a bit of uppityness from winning stuff. Something I'd say we all could be accused of.

I read through some of their comments, well ok a lot, on their facebook page back in November. It was everyone elses fault, sure someone had to look after their England stars, the salary cap was silly.

They have made it very difficult to have sympathy for them considering the way they have acted online.

BonnieSituation · 17-01-2020 08:37PM

Former Former wrote: »

That's a horrible attitude. The fans didn't cause this. Jesus.

Ah jesus calm down. Can we not all bask in this sh!show for the next few days? It's hilarious given the choir boy attitude when they were caught.

I'm sure there will be mass protests in the streets of Saracens tonight as a result of all this.

17-01-2020 08:40PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah jesus calm down. Can we not all bask in this sh!show for the next few days? It's hilarious given the choir boy attitude when they were caught.

I'm sure there will be mass protests in the streets of Saracens tonight as a result of all this.

How will we know ?, will it be the three people standing together in their Saracens jerseys ? whats the minimum number allowed to call it a "mass protest" or do they just have to go to mass afterwards ?

Bazzo · 17-01-2020 09:00PM

Jeffrey Lebowski wrote: »

I was shocked when they told me, but they were insistant on it. There is a reason, they all leave Wales.

They were taking the piss.

17-01-2020 09:03PM

https://twitter.com/DoncasterKnight/status/1218184487680585728

freyners · 17-01-2020 09:08PM

Credit to the original poster legorockman on Reddit for this beauty

prawnsambo · 17-01-2020 09:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I read through some of their comments, well ok a lot, on their facebook page back in November. It was everyone elses fault, sure someone had to look after their England stars, the salary cap was silly.

They have made it very difficult to have sympathy for them considering the way they have acted online.

That's just the stages of grief. Denial being the first. It's the likes of Stephen Jones that should really get a slapping.

mike_cork · 17-01-2020 09:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I read through some of their comments, well ok a lot, on their facebook page back in November. It was everyone elses fault, sure someone had to look after their England stars, the salary cap was silly.

They have made it very difficult to have sympathy for them considering the way they have acted online.

Go onto their forum and see the delusion first hand.

https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,16709759

BonnieSituation · 17-01-2020 09:46PM

mike_cork wrote: »

Go onto their forum and see the delusion first hand.

https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,16709759

Sarseholes Messageboard wrote:

Why not apply to join the Guinness Pro14?
Why not apply to join the Guinness Pro14?
Howiefez 17 January, 2020 08:46
Having no intimate knowledge of the details of the salary cap, I unable to pass judgement on the rights and wrongs of Saracens position (without transparency no one else has either!), but it seems that the rest of the Premiership acting as judge and jury, has condemned Saracens to relegation already.
Instead of being forced to play in the Championship next year and possibly beyond, perhaps one route out of the mess is to apply to permanently play in the Guinness Pro14, replacing one of the South African teams. At least then Saracens would be on a level salary playing field with the Irish and the also with the French.
Accepting this would have many ramifications, for example, the English international players, Saracens Storm etc, is this a possibility? I'd rather see Munster, Leinster and Scarlets visiting Allianz Park than Ampthill and Ealing.
Comments please.

https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,16709242

---

To be fair there are some decent posters on there who want the punishment to clear house and are sickened by the carry-on. But there are others wo are beyond help.

sliabh 1956 · 17-01-2020 09:47PM

Just saw this on the BBC sports web page "Can Saracens play in the Champions Cup if relegated?
No. While the winners of the Champions Cup qualify for next season's tournament - and Saracens are still in contention - European organisers have confirmed to the BBC that only teams from the Premiership, Top 14 and Pro 14 are eligible to play in European competitions. The only exceptions are the teams from emerging nations who play in the Challenge Cup."

prawnsambo · 17-01-2020 09:52PM

mike_cork wrote: »

Go onto their forum and see the delusion first hand.

https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,16709759

Your link took me straight to a thread looking at the benefits of relegation. Most of the posts I read were entirely positive and looking forward to the prospect of going to grounds they hadn't visited in years. I kinda got a bit bored by all the positivity.

mike_cork · 17-01-2020 10:05PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Your link took me straight to a thread looking at the benefits of relegation. Most of the posts I read were entirely positive and looking forward to the prospect of going to grounds they hadn't visited in years. I kinda got a bit bored by all the positivity.

My apologies, meant this thread! As the news got worse during the last few hours,acceptance of their fate seems to have finally set in
https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,16708853

prawnsambo · 17-01-2020 10:33PM

mike_cork wrote: »

My apologies, meant this thread! As the news got worse during the last few hours,acceptance of their fate seems to have finally set in
https://www.rugbynetwork.net/boards/read/s104.htm?107,16708853

Cheers. Still not seeing anything other than the odd few throwing questions around or being a bit disingenuous even. But a lot are like this one:

Something I thought of whilst writing this was the fact that many if not most of us on here supported the club when we were rubbish. Winning trophies is not what it was about. It was about the rugby.

None of us demanded trophies we were just happy that we stayed up or got a chance to play in the Heineken cup. It seems a long the way this has been lost by the club, it became about the winning and worse yet it became about winning at any cost!

I won’t lie I have loved winning I have some great memories of all the finals that we won but when we look back what has it cost us?

molloyjh · 17-01-2020 10:40PM

Yeah theres a real human element to this people are forgetting in their delight. People who had nothing to do with the cheating will lose their jobs. Some will forever be stained by what has happened. And the real culprits, the likes of Nigel Wray for example, get to walk away. This is exactly what the club deserves, but the people in it arent all guilty and dont all deserve this. Celebrating people losing their jobs is nasty. End of. I'm glad they were caught and I'm glad the punishment is as harsh as it should be. But I take no actual pleasure from the fact that it is happening. People need to remember the human cost of this.

mike_cork · 17-01-2020 10:46PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Cheers. Still not seeing anything other than the odd few throwing questions around or being a bit disingenuous even. But a lot are like this one:

Yeah saw that comment myself. I do feel sorry for the fans that have been with the club for years and saw them rise from basically nothing.
However its been an open secret for years that Saracens have been systematically cheating. They've cheated their fellow clubs in england out of titles and the revenue and prestige that comes with that.
Having been on many munster away trips in england and speaking to english club fans- They hate Saracens with a burning passion so I can understand the delight they are having watching "the wolfpack" empire collapse.

Downlinz · 17-01-2020 11:05PM

durkadurka wrote: »

The near certain relegation this season ensures Saracens are out of the next two Heineken cup seasons.

Will any of their stars stay on with that prospect?

Is there enough cap space on the other sides to take all the English internationals without dramatic pay cuts? They can't move abroad and play test rugby by the RFU rules so could a few of them sit on their contracts rather than take a big pay cut?

prawnsambo · 17-01-2020 11:07PM

Downlinz wrote: »

Is there enough cap space on the other sides to take all the English internationals without dramatic pay cuts? They can't move abroad and play test rugby by the RFU rules so could a few of them sit on their contracts rather than take a big pay cut?

Not a chance. They are all right up to the cap.

Squidgy Black · 17-01-2020 11:10PM

It'll be next season before any teams could even contemplate taking on any big contracts, but the funny thing is the cap is to be reviewed at the end of this season so there's a good chance it could be increased to allow for the Exodus.

prawnsambo · 17-01-2020 11:16PM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

It'll be next season before any teams could even contemplate taking on any big contracts, but the funny thing is the cap is to be reviewed at the end of this season so there's a good chance it could be increased to allow for the Exodus.

It will mean a cut in pay for these guys though. You can't 'dump' that number of players on a saturated market and expect the same rates.

Squidgy Black · 17-01-2020 11:30PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

It will mean a cut in pay for these guys though. You can't 'dump' that number of players on a saturated market and expect the same rates.

I dunno, for the big name internationals there's a good chance the market will still hold strong with the cap credits for being an international player and also international windows. There's only 6 big name English players who'd be on the market (the Vunipolas, George, Farrell, Itoje, Daly). Kruis is reportedly off to Japan, and Singleton wouldn't be commanding a big salary regardless.

They'll definitely be facing a pay cut but I still think the demand would probably be there amongst the clubs for those names.

17-01-2020 11:30PM

This is a good look...

https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1218237938569486344?s=19

prawnsambo · 17-01-2020 11:47PM

Squidgy Black wrote: »

I dunno, for the big name internationals there's a good chance the market will still hold strong with the cap credits for being an international player and also international windows. There's only 6 big name English players who'd be on the market (the Vunipolas, George, Farrell, Itoje, Daly). Kruis is reportedly off to Japan, and Singleton wouldn't be commanding a big salary regardless.

They'll definitely be facing a pay cut but I still think the demand would probably be there amongst the clubs for those names.

It's the quantity at one time as well as the other clubs having their books full. You have to find a club that's losing a big name or two at the same time. Inevitably there might be one or two, but after that it could be a hard sell.

17-01-2020 11:49PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Cheers. Still not seeing anything other than the odd few throwing questions around or being a bit disingenuous even. But a lot are like this one:

Sarries Fans forum on Facebook was full of it

BonnieSituation · 18-01-2020 12:49AM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Not a chance. They are all right up to the cap.

Right up against the cap because of the wage structures in place due to Saracens paying through the nose and having other teams making a bollox of their structures to keep pace?

Bridge93 · 18-01-2020 12:50AM

So after all the hot air blown up his ass by Sarries fans and the media for what’s he’s done for rugby, Nigel Wrays legacy may end up being bringing the curtain down on the club he loved. So sweet, his disregard for fair competition and continuing lack of taking any blame or apologizing shows what he really his. A power hungry and greedy bully who thought he was above the law.

Now that I say that, I think there’s a lonely bloke seen wandering around Abbotstown looking for a new drinking buddy now he can’t buy Irish football fans’ silence and support with cans of carlsberg anymore. Answers to Delaney I believe

Podge_irl · 18-01-2020 12:51AM

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah theres a real human element to this people are forgetting in their delight. People who had nothing to do with the cheating will lose their jobs. Some will forever be stained by what has happened. And the real culprits, the likes of Nigel Wray for example, get to walk away. This is exactly what the club deserves, but the people in it arent all guilty and dont all deserve this. Celebrating people losing their jobs is nasty. End of. I'm glad they were caught and I'm glad the punishment is as harsh as it should be. But I take no actual pleasure from the fact that it is happening. People need to remember the human cost of this.

A team was going to get relegated one way or the other. Better Saracens then a team playing by the rules.