Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

Day trading

  • 16-01-2020 10:48am
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ DankeyKang


    I've spent the last year trying my best to learn how to day trade through books and demo accounts, sort of at the stage where I feel comfortable now before I pull the trigger. Wondering if many here are day traders and if you guys have any advice for a beginner?

    At the moment I'm doing all my technical work on Tradingview and I guess I'll be using Degiro for execution only. My concern is that Degiro won't execute orders fast enough for day trading, although I hope someone could correct me on that. What setups do you guys use?


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭ PHG


    DankeyKang wrote: »
    I've spent the last year trying my best to learn how to day trade through books and demo accounts, sort of at the stage where I feel comfortable now before I pull the trigger. Wondering if many here are day traders and if you guys have any advice for a beginner?

    At the moment I'm doing all my technical work on Tradingview and I guess I'll be using Degiro for execution only. My concern is that Degiro won't execute orders fast enough for day trading, although I hope someone could correct me on that. What setups do you guys use?

    The one bit of advice here is start with a small amount and money you can afford to lose. Real money vs demo is a totally different beast. Man people do well on demo and then struggle with real money so make sure you use an affordable amount when doing this.

    I use IC Markets so cannot comment on DeGiro.

    Thanks,

    PHG


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ DankeyKang


    PHG wrote: »
    The one bit of advice here is start with a small amount and money you can afford to lose. Real money vs demo is a totally different beast. Man people do well on demo and then struggle with real money so make sure you use an affordable amount when doing this.

    I use IC Markets so cannot comment on DeGiro.

    Thanks,

    PHG

    Absolutely agree with you about real money vs demo. My plan is to always trade with stop losses at 1% and never let a loss build up or hold one overnight in the hopes it will correct itself. From what I've seen so far I would actually say it's easier to make money day trading than to not lose it. The best "loser" would be profitable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 470 ✭✭ PHG


    DankeyKang wrote: »
    Absolutely agree with you about real money vs demo. My plan is to always trade with stop losses at 1% and never let a loss build up or hold one overnight in the hopes it will correct itself. From what I've seen so far I would actually say it's easier to make money day trading than to not lose it. The best "loser" would be profitable.

    I am not sure what you mean about best way is day trading. I never hold overnight as touch on Indices but still may do 4-10max a week. My logic is it is easier to get 5 trades right than 10. But different strategies means different amounts of trading. I tend to place a trade and don't need to look for a few hours as set an alert on my phone if certain levels hit.

    Best of luck with it though and keep the thread updated. Always enjoy reading the journey


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ poeticjustice


    Hey Dankey. Where did you set up your demo account. Its something I'm interested in doing before taking the plunge


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

    Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ DankeyKang


    Hey Dankey. Where did you set up your demo account. Its something I'm interested in doing before taking the plunge

    I've been using Tradingview.com, initially for the demo account and more recently have been using the paid version as I learnt more about technical analysis and charts. Would recommend it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ DankeyKang


    kilns wrote: »
    If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

    Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning

    Thank you I'll look into these.


  • Registered Users Posts: 159 ✭✭ poeticjustice


    DankeyKang wrote: »
    I've been using Tradingview.com, initially for the demo account and more recently have been using the paid version as I learnt more about technical analysis and charts. Would recommend it.

    Thanks. I'll look into it


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ DankeyKang


    kilns wrote: »
    If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

    Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning

    Can I ask why you use Interactive Brokers over Degiro for example? I should note that I most likely will only be trading US equities and would need real time data for NASDAQ and NYSE.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭✭✭ DankeyKang


    Would I be correct in saying that the pattern day trading rules apply to Interactive Brokers accounts as they're based in US, but they do not apply to Degiro (confirmed by Degiro) because they are based in Europe?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 10,928 ✭✭✭✭ phantom_lord


    kilns wrote: »
    If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

    Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning

    Don't pay any attention to people like Tim Sykes. He makes his money from marketing, not trading.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    kilns wrote: »
    If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

    Rubbish, all these two is sell education to the gullible. If they were able to do as well as they say, they would not need to peddle books, newsletters, talks etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭ HamSarris


    DankeyKang wrote: »
    Absolutely agree with you about real money vs demo. My plan is to always trade with stop losses at 1% and never let a loss build up or hold one overnight in the hopes it will correct itself. From what I've seen so far I would actually say it's easier to make money day trading than to not lose it. The best "loser" would be profitable.

    From these comments I don't think you are ready to day trade. Rigidly setting an arbitrary stop-loss at 1% could lose you lots of money if volatility increases. Your stop losses should be hypothesis-driven - at what point is the thesis of your trade invalidated.

    Approximately 90% of day traders lose money. You're competing against bots and professional traders who have access to information and knowledge you do not have. What is so special about your knowledge or skills that puts you in the top 10%?

    If you find long-term investing too boring, consider something in-between investing and day trading. One strategy is to look out for value points and let the market come to you. For example, silver is currently in the start of a bull market. You can let it re-trace to the 21 EMA and then enter with a tight stop loss. If you chase immediate gains you're account will get eaten up by fees and the randomness of the market stopping you out.

    Day traders in 1999 and 2007 also probably thought that trading was easy.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    HamSarris wrote: »
    Approximately 90% of day traders lose money. You're competing against bots and professional traders who have access to information and knowledge you do not have. What is so special about your knowledge or skills that puts you in the top 10%?

    Ah yes, the bots and the pros are making money.... no they are not the bots are no better that the pro traders are relying on luck just like the rest of pack.

    You want to make money on trading - write a book, a news letter or a software tool and sell it to the pack. And don't forget to make up your own trading record no one can validate it and the gullible punters won't bother in any case.


  • Registered Users Posts: 520 Pacoa


    Stay away from Tim Sykes, been there done that lost money. Newbies should not be starting with pennystocks. Look up livetraders on youtube. Hours of free valuable advice.


  • Registered Users Posts: 224 ✭✭ Lyan


    I didn't have any problems using Degiro for daytrading. I did a small bit of volatility day trading two years back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭✭ XMG


    Anyone trying to sell you a program (Timothy Sykes, Warrior Trading etc), stay away, if they were so successful they sure as hell wouldn't be wasting time on anything other than making another million.

    You can use real money but start small. Nothing wrong with executing your plan with 10 shares, then when you get comfortable losing money and paying comissions on your losing trades then step up to 50, 100, 1000 shares, you'll be funding your account again in no time!
    But seriously, start small and if your thesis holds up see how you go with a slightly bigger size etc etc...

    Day trading is a great way to lose money, it's also a reasonable way to make money.
    Take as an example something that happened on Friday to see how quickly things can go very wrong. Look at the chart for SNCA, runs like crazy right out of the gate and then boom, warrants get exercised towards the end of the session. If you think your 1% stop loss would have protected you you would be wrong. Sh*t like this happens all the time, and it's legal... All the technical know how and chart reading ability, company research will not help in this case.

    Stocks get pumped and dumped all the time and it's the little guys that get left holding the bag, that's just how it is.

    Anyway, if you still think you want to jump in by all means do it but like I said start small and build yourself up slowly. Try (I say try because it's one of the most difficult things to do) and keep your emotions out of it or at least in check.

    Don't rush into a trade, pull the trigger because you are reasonable happy with your thesis and that it's gonna go the right way for you. If there is any niggling doubts wait it out, there is always another trade just around the corner. Yes, it can be a painful thing to watch something go without you but the opposite is also true...

    Don't let your losers run, get out as planned, hope is not a plan.

    Stick to the plan, 2:1 risk/reward or whatever it is, once you hit your targets start to scale out or sell the lot, never let a green trade turn red through greed.

    Stay away from shorting until you 100% know what you're doing, really!

    I'm sure there are other pieces of advice I could offer but I can't remember them all :>)

    I use Interactive Brokers, commissions are reasonable and data is something like $30 or $40 a month? They have the PDT rule though so you will need at least $30k in your account to start ($25k to satisfy the PDT rule and $5k to begin your career as a day trader) That's for an account with margin.

    Good luck and trade well, I look forward to reading of your success!

    Oh, paid services, there is only one I would recommend and it's the only one I use, Benzinga Pro, it's a news/research platform with a live chat, the traders are friendly and you won't be laughed at for asking questions. They have a free 1 month trial I think so check it out. I can't remember off hand how much it cost's after that but a month will tell you if it's worth it or not to you.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭ bfa1509


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    You want to make money on trading - write a book, a news letter or a software tool and sell it to the pack. And don't forget to make up your own trading record no one can validate it and the gullible punters won't bother in any case.

    And don't forget to be tax non-compliant...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    Don't pay any attention to people like Tim Sykes. He makes his money from marketing, not trading.

    He doesnt sell a program, he only provides the tools to make your own decisions in the markets, anyone who blindly follows a "gurus" program and follows their trades are idiots as they will always be second to the punch and will never learn. He doesnt do that. He has plenty of free youtube videos and most of it is basic knowledge stuff.

    I know its typical of traders to hate these kind of guys but I honestly would not lump Sykes in there, yes he can be brash and annoying but when he puts out he is actually quite useful for anyone learning day trading. Plus his stockstotrade platform in my opinion is the best all in one platform out there

    I started off with his stuff and since then have developed my own strategies to become consistently profitable


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    Jim2007 wrote: »
    Rubbish, all these two is sell education to the gullible. If they were able to do as well as they say, they would not need to peddle books, newsletters, talks etc.

    Do you even know who Steven Dux is? Have you seen him trade? Have you seen his independently verified trades?

    Of course there are plenty of scam artists out there but he is far from one.

    With regard to Sykes, the material he produces is very good, I would love to see someone say what is wrong with it. He gets people to learn on their own and make their own trades and own make mistakes, he doesnt like other "gurus" get his whole group to go all in on one stock which he is already in and take the profit before anyone else.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    DankeyKang wrote: »
    Can I ask why you use Interactive Brokers over Degiro for example? I should note that I most likely will only be trading US equities and would need real time data for NASDAQ and NYSE.

    Their platform is better, in the long run cheaper and you can trade US ETFs which you cant on degiro.

    Plus check out how much of your capital is gauranteed under Dutch law if Degiro went bust


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    Pacoa wrote: »
    Stay away from Tim Sykes, been there done that lost money. Newbies should not be starting with pennystocks. Look up livetraders on youtube. Hours of free valuable advice.

    How much was that down what he though as opposed to your risk management and bad trading decisions?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,788 ✭✭✭ Cute Hoor


    kilns wrote: »
    Their platform is better, in the long run cheaper and you can trade US ETFs which you cant on degiro.

    I don't think this is true, I'm pretty sure I tried to buy a US ETF on IB and was refused.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    I don't think this is true, I'm pretty sure I tried to buy a US ETF on IB and was refused.

    really? I buy and sell them all the time on it, I was on degiro also and its why i moved away from it as it wouldnt allow me anymore

    if you open an IB account it is either IB UK or IB USA. My account is administered with IB Uk


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 7,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Jim2007


    Cute Hoor wrote: »
    I don't think this is true, I'm pretty sure I tried to buy a US ETF on IB and was refused.

    There should be no problem buying any instrument offered on a public stock exchange. You are not prevented from buying the ETF, but they are prevented from offering the ETF to you. The only reason for them to prevent you from buying the fund through them is if they are an owner, distributor or market maker in the fund, then you'd need to go to a different broker.


  • Registered Users Posts: 373 ✭✭ JMMCapital


    Are UCITs not the European equivalent of an ETF? I see them domiciled mainly in Ireland & Luxembourg. For example on Degiro if I wanted to buy an index fund that tracks the S&P 500 I would buy the iShares S&P 500 which is listed on the Euronext Amsterdam under the ticker "ISSP" with the ISIN being IE0031442068. The fund is domiciled in Ireland and is listed in Amsterdam,Milan,Zurich,London,Frankfurt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 403 ✭✭ bizidea


    kilns wrote: »
    Their platform is better, in the long run cheaper and you can trade US ETFs which you cant on degiro.

    Plus check out how much of your capital is gauranteed under Dutch law if Degiro went bust

    So how much of your capital is guarenteed if de giro go


  • Registered Users Posts: 520 Pacoa


    How much was that down what he though as opposed to your risk management and bad trading decisions?

    He teaches to use mental stops instead of hard stops, that's bad risk management.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    bizidea wrote: »
    So how much of your capital is guarenteed if de giro go

    EUR20,000 i believe by the Dutch authories, if Degiro disappeared overnight


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,525 kilns


    Pacoa wrote: »
    He teaches to use mental stops instead of hard stops, that's bad risk management.

    Thats a total matter of opinion and trading style. I personally dont trade with stops but I am monitoring my trades all the time. But if you place a trade and ignore it for a few days sure place stops


Advertisement