Day trading

DankeyKang · 16-01-2020 10:48am #1

I've spent the last year trying my best to learn how to day trade through books and demo accounts, sort of at the stage where I feel comfortable now before I pull the trigger. Wondering if many here are day traders and if you guys have any advice for a beginner?

At the moment I'm doing all my technical work on Tradingview and I guess I'll be using Degiro for execution only. My concern is that Degiro won't execute orders fast enough for day trading, although I hope someone could correct me on that. What setups do you guys use?

PHG · 16-01-2020 11:00am

DankeyKang wrote: »

I've spent the last year trying my best to learn how to day trade through books and demo accounts, sort of at the stage where I feel comfortable now before I pull the trigger. Wondering if many here are day traders and if you guys have any advice for a beginner?

At the moment I'm doing all my technical work on Tradingview and I guess I'll be using Degiro for execution only. My concern is that Degiro won't execute orders fast enough for day trading, although I hope someone could correct me on that. What setups do you guys use?

The one bit of advice here is start with a small amount and money you can afford to lose. Real money vs demo is a totally different beast. Man people do well on demo and then struggle with real money so make sure you use an affordable amount when doing this.

I use IC Markets so cannot comment on DeGiro.

Thanks,

PHG

DankeyKang · 16-01-2020 11:04am

PHG wrote: »

The one bit of advice here is start with a small amount and money you can afford to lose. Real money vs demo is a totally different beast. Man people do well on demo and then struggle with real money so make sure you use an affordable amount when doing this.

I use IC Markets so cannot comment on DeGiro.

Thanks,

PHG

Absolutely agree with you about real money vs demo. My plan is to always trade with stop losses at 1% and never let a loss build up or hold one overnight in the hopes it will correct itself. From what I've seen so far I would actually say it's easier to make money day trading than to not lose it. The best "loser" would be profitable.

PHG · 16-01-2020 11:22am

DankeyKang wrote: »

Absolutely agree with you about real money vs demo. My plan is to always trade with stop losses at 1% and never let a loss build up or hold one overnight in the hopes it will correct itself. From what I've seen so far I would actually say it's easier to make money day trading than to not lose it. The best "loser" would be profitable.

I am not sure what you mean about best way is day trading. I never hold overnight as touch on Indices but still may do 4-10max a week. My logic is it is easier to get 5 trades right than 10. But different strategies means different amounts of trading. I tend to place a trade and don't need to look for a few hours as set an alert on my phone if certain levels hit.

Best of luck with it though and keep the thread updated. Always enjoy reading the journey

poeticjustice · 16-01-2020 11:26am

Hey Dankey. Where did you set up your demo account. Its something I'm interested in doing before taking the plunge

kilns · 16-01-2020 11:26am

If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning

DankeyKang · 16-01-2020 11:41am

poeticjustice wrote: »

Hey Dankey. Where did you set up your demo account. Its something I'm interested in doing before taking the plunge

I've been using Tradingview.com, initially for the demo account and more recently have been using the paid version as I learnt more about technical analysis and charts. Would recommend it.

DankeyKang · 16-01-2020 11:42am

kilns wrote: »

If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning

Thank you I'll look into these.

poeticjustice · 16-01-2020 11:46am

DankeyKang wrote: »

I've been using Tradingview.com, initially for the demo account and more recently have been using the paid version as I learnt more about technical analysis and charts. Would recommend it.

Thanks. I'll look into it

DankeyKang · 16-01-2020 11:48am

kilns wrote: »

If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning

Can I ask why you use Interactive Brokers over Degiro for example? I should note that I most likely will only be trading US equities and would need real time data for NASDAQ and NYSE.

DankeyKang · 16-01-2020 12:13pm

Would I be correct in saying that the pattern day trading rules apply to Interactive Brokers accounts as they're based in US, but they do not apply to Degiro (confirmed by Degiro) because they are based in Europe?

phantom_lord · 17-01-2020 11:48pm

kilns wrote: »

If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

Interactive Brokers to execute trades, stocks to trade for charting and scanning

Don't pay any attention to people like Tim Sykes. He makes his money from marketing, not trading.

Jim2007 · 18-01-2020 12:53pm

kilns wrote: »

If you really want to get a good education check out Tim Sykes and then to really move on from that Steven Dux is a real genius

Rubbish, all these two is sell education to the gullible. If they were able to do as well as they say, they would not need to peddle books, newsletters, talks etc.

HamSarris · 18-01-2020 4:50pm

DankeyKang wrote: »

Absolutely agree with you about real money vs demo. My plan is to always trade with stop losses at 1% and never let a loss build up or hold one overnight in the hopes it will correct itself. From what I've seen so far I would actually say it's easier to make money day trading than to not lose it. The best "loser" would be profitable.

From these comments I don't think you are ready to day trade. Rigidly setting an arbitrary stop-loss at 1% could lose you lots of money if volatility increases. Your stop losses should be hypothesis-driven - at what point is the thesis of your trade invalidated.

Approximately 90% of day traders lose money. You're competing against bots and professional traders who have access to information and knowledge you do not have. What is so special about your knowledge or skills that puts you in the top 10%?

If you find long-term investing too boring, consider something in-between investing and day trading. One strategy is to look out for value points and let the market come to you. For example, silver is currently in the start of a bull market. You can let it re-trace to the 21 EMA and then enter with a tight stop loss. If you chase immediate gains you're account will get eaten up by fees and the randomness of the market stopping you out.

Day traders in 1999 and 2007 also probably thought that trading was easy.

Jim2007 · 18-01-2020 9:12pm

HamSarris wrote: »

Approximately 90% of day traders lose money. You're competing against bots and professional traders who have access to information and knowledge you do not have. What is so special about your knowledge or skills that puts you in the top 10%?

Ah yes, the bots and the pros are making money.... no they are not the bots are no better that the pro traders are relying on luck just like the rest of pack.

You want to make money on trading - write a book, a news letter or a software tool and sell it to the pack. And don't forget to make up your own trading record no one can validate it and the gullible punters won't bother in any case.

Pacoa · 18-01-2020 11:49pm

Stay away from Tim Sykes, been there done that lost money. Newbies should not be starting with pennystocks. Look up livetraders on youtube. Hours of free valuable advice.

Lyan · 19-01-2020 12:04am

I didn't have any problems using Degiro for daytrading. I did a small bit of volatility day trading two years back.

XMG · 19-01-2020 10:22pm

Anyone trying to sell you a program (Timothy Sykes, Warrior Trading etc), stay away, if they were so successful they sure as hell wouldn't be wasting time on anything other than making another million.

You can use real money but start small. Nothing wrong with executing your plan with 10 shares, then when you get comfortable losing money and paying comissions on your losing trades then step up to 50, 100, 1000 shares, you'll be funding your account again in no time!
But seriously, start small and if your thesis holds up see how you go with a slightly bigger size etc etc...

Day trading is a great way to lose money, it's also a reasonable way to make money.
Take as an example something that happened on Friday to see how quickly things can go very wrong. Look at the chart for SNCA, runs like crazy right out of the gate and then boom, warrants get exercised towards the end of the session. If you think your 1% stop loss would have protected you you would be wrong. Sh*t like this happens all the time, and it's legal... All the technical know how and chart reading ability, company research will not help in this case.

Stocks get pumped and dumped all the time and it's the little guys that get left holding the bag, that's just how it is.

Anyway, if you still think you want to jump in by all means do it but like I said start small and build yourself up slowly. Try (I say try because it's one of the most difficult things to do) and keep your emotions out of it or at least in check.

Don't rush into a trade, pull the trigger because you are reasonable happy with your thesis and that it's gonna go the right way for you. If there is any niggling doubts wait it out, there is always another trade just around the corner. Yes, it can be a painful thing to watch something go without you but the opposite is also true...

Don't let your losers run, get out as planned, hope is not a plan.

Stick to the plan, 2:1 risk/reward or whatever it is, once you hit your targets start to scale out or sell the lot, never let a green trade turn red through greed.

Stay away from shorting until you 100% know what you're doing, really!

I'm sure there are other pieces of advice I could offer but I can't remember them all :>)

I use Interactive Brokers, commissions are reasonable and data is something like $30 or $40 a month? They have the PDT rule though so you will need at least $30k in your account to start ($25k to satisfy the PDT rule and $5k to begin your career as a day trader) That's for an account with margin.

Good luck and trade well, I look forward to reading of your success!

Oh, paid services, there is only one I would recommend and it's the only one I use, Benzinga Pro, it's a news/research platform with a live chat, the traders are friendly and you won't be laughed at for asking questions. They have a free 1 month trial I think so check it out. I can't remember off hand how much it cost's after that but a month will tell you if it's worth it or not to you.

bfa1509 · 20-01-2020 11:26pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

You want to make money on trading - write a book, a news letter or a software tool and sell it to the pack. And don't forget to make up your own trading record no one can validate it and the gullible punters won't bother in any case.

And don't forget to be tax non-compliant...

kilns · 24-01-2020 9:47am

phantom_lord wrote: »

Don't pay any attention to people like Tim Sykes. He makes his money from marketing, not trading.

He doesnt sell a program, he only provides the tools to make your own decisions in the markets, anyone who blindly follows a "gurus" program and follows their trades are idiots as they will always be second to the punch and will never learn. He doesnt do that. He has plenty of free youtube videos and most of it is basic knowledge stuff.

I know its typical of traders to hate these kind of guys but I honestly would not lump Sykes in there, yes he can be brash and annoying but when he puts out he is actually quite useful for anyone learning day trading. Plus his stockstotrade platform in my opinion is the best all in one platform out there

I started off with his stuff and since then have developed my own strategies to become consistently profitable

kilns · 24-01-2020 9:51am

Jim2007 wrote: »

Rubbish, all these two is sell education to the gullible. If they were able to do as well as they say, they would not need to peddle books, newsletters, talks etc.

Do you even know who Steven Dux is? Have you seen him trade? Have you seen his independently verified trades?

Of course there are plenty of scam artists out there but he is far from one.

With regard to Sykes, the material he produces is very good, I would love to see someone say what is wrong with it. He gets people to learn on their own and make their own trades and own make mistakes, he doesnt like other "gurus" get his whole group to go all in on one stock which he is already in and take the profit before anyone else.

kilns · 24-01-2020 9:53am

DankeyKang wrote: »

Can I ask why you use Interactive Brokers over Degiro for example? I should note that I most likely will only be trading US equities and would need real time data for NASDAQ and NYSE.

Their platform is better, in the long run cheaper and you can trade US ETFs which you cant on degiro.

Plus check out how much of your capital is gauranteed under Dutch law if Degiro went bust

kilns · 24-01-2020 9:56am

Pacoa wrote: »

Stay away from Tim Sykes, been there done that lost money. Newbies should not be starting with pennystocks. Look up livetraders on youtube. Hours of free valuable advice.

How much was that down what he though as opposed to your risk management and bad trading decisions?

Cute Hoor · 24-01-2020 11:55am

kilns wrote: »

Their platform is better, in the long run cheaper and you can trade US ETFs which you cant on degiro.

I don't think this is true, I'm pretty sure I tried to buy a US ETF on IB and was refused.

kilns · 24-01-2020 3:01pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I don't think this is true, I'm pretty sure I tried to buy a US ETF on IB and was refused.

really? I buy and sell them all the time on it, I was on degiro also and its why i moved away from it as it wouldnt allow me anymore

if you open an IB account it is either IB UK or IB USA. My account is administered with IB Uk

Jim2007 · 24-01-2020 3:53pm

Cute Hoor wrote: »

I don't think this is true, I'm pretty sure I tried to buy a US ETF on IB and was refused.

There should be no problem buying any instrument offered on a public stock exchange. You are not prevented from buying the ETF, but they are prevented from offering the ETF to you. The only reason for them to prevent you from buying the fund through them is if they are an owner, distributor or market maker in the fund, then you'd need to go to a different broker.

JMMCapital · 24-01-2020 10:49pm

Are UCITs not the European equivalent of an ETF? I see them domiciled mainly in Ireland & Luxembourg. For example on Degiro if I wanted to buy an index fund that tracks the S&P 500 I would buy the iShares S&P 500 which is listed on the Euronext Amsterdam under the ticker "ISSP" with the ISIN being IE0031442068. The fund is domiciled in Ireland and is listed in Amsterdam,Milan,Zurich,London,Frankfurt.

bizidea · 24-01-2020 11:04pm

kilns wrote: »

Their platform is better, in the long run cheaper and you can trade US ETFs which you cant on degiro.

Plus check out how much of your capital is gauranteed under Dutch law if Degiro went bust

So how much of your capital is guarenteed if de giro go

Pacoa · 24-01-2020 11:16pm

How much was that down what he though as opposed to your risk management and bad trading decisions?

He teaches to use mental stops instead of hard stops, that's bad risk management.

kilns · 27-01-2020 2:44pm

bizidea wrote: »

So how much of your capital is guarenteed if de giro go

EUR20,000 i believe by the Dutch authories, if Degiro disappeared overnight

kilns · 27-01-2020 2:46pm

Pacoa wrote: »

He teaches to use mental stops instead of hard stops, that's bad risk management.

Thats a total matter of opinion and trading style. I personally dont trade with stops but I am monitoring my trades all the time. But if you place a trade and ignore it for a few days sure place stops

Cute Hoor · 27-01-2020 3:50pm

kilns wrote: »

really? I buy and sell them all the time on it, I was on degiro also and its why i moved away from it as it wouldnt allow me anymore

if you open an IB account it is either IB UK or IB USA. My account is administered with IB Uk

Thats interesting, I am looking at VTI now on IB and I am getting the following message 'Financial instrument is not available for trading'

JMMCapital · 28-01-2020 1:44am

What is the options trading setup like on IB? Was meant to setup an account a while back struggling to get proof of address right balls altogether..

kilns · 30-01-2020 10:08am

JMMCapital wrote: »

What is the options trading setup like on IB? Was meant to setup an account a while back struggling to get proof of address right balls altogether..

I find it very good but I think you have to prove you are capable of options trading before they give you access

canonball5 · 30-01-2020 11:20am

Is anyone aware of any good sites for researching stocks for day trading?

kilns · 30-01-2020 11:32am

In terms of scanners, news, tips or strategies?

canonball5 · 30-01-2020 12:02pm

kilns wrote: »

In terms of scanners, news, tips or strategies?

Sorry, should have been more clear. Yes, in terms of news and tips mainly.

DankeyKang · 30-01-2020 1:38pm

canonball5 wrote: »

Sorry, should have been more clear. Yes, in terms of news and tips mainly.

Ironically I've found r/wallstreetbets a great resource for what stocks will be "hot". Obviously do not take any investing advice from there but for example if you followed the hype on Tesla and AMD along with your own methods/risk analysis you could have made a tidy profit day trading them.

kilns · 30-01-2020 1:41pm

canonball5 wrote: »

Sorry, should have been more clear. Yes, in terms of news and tips mainly.

You need to be able to filter through so much crap so you need to be careful, a previous poster mentioned Bezinga Pro which is good.

I use StockstoTrade but that covers everything in one package from charting to news, its takes news from all sources and packages it into your tailored needs. Its expensive but works for me. I am lucky too that through work I have access to Bloomberg and Reuters/Refinitiv

But apart from Bezinga pro there are plenty of free stuff out there like marketwatch, Yahoo,

ballyharpat · 05-02-2020 11:50pm

can someone that has an account with IB see if they can purchase USO?

I tried on DeGiro, and couldn't, I ended up buying crud.l instead -sucks.

kilns · 06-02-2020 9:58am

ballyharpat wrote: »

can someone that has an account with IB see if they can purchase USO?

I tried on DeGiro, and couldn't, I ended up buying crud.l instead -sucks.

yes its available on IB

ballyharpat · 12-02-2020 9:55pm

kilns wrote: »

yes its available on IB

thanks, I ended up buying more crud instead, it has been showing the same graph all the time, so rather than swap over, I stayed with DeGiro.

kilns · 13-02-2020 9:55am

I presume you went long? I work in the industry and we are expecting a bounce on this and natural gas

ballyharpat · 13-02-2020 8:26pm

kilns wrote: »

I presume you went long? I work in the industry and we are expecting a bounce on this and natural gas

Yeah, I went long. I had sold a lot when we had the iran/iraq affair a few weeks ago, it was around $68 per brl. I figure anything around 55 is a good price to buy back in, minimum 10% profit, hopefully more.
When, and for what reason do you see a bounce occurring?

hobes · 19-02-2020 10:19pm

kilns wrote: »

EUR20,000 i believe by the Dutch authories, if Degiro disappeared overnight

That's €20k cash by the way. Your shares are held separately and won't be affected if Degiro go under.

Also, never hold your cash on any exchange, but €20k is pretty decent to be covered in all honesty.

kilns · 27-02-2020 10:23am

ballyharpat wrote: »

Yeah, I went long. I had sold a lot when we had the iran/iraq affair a few weeks ago, it was around $68 per brl. I figure anything around 55 is a good price to buy back in, minimum 10% profit, hopefully more.
When, and for what reason do you see a bounce occurring?

It is generally accepted that buyers and sellers in the market are happy when crude trades in the 55 - 65 range.

So in that case it below that and once the Virus news goes away a raise to 60 should happen quickly

damir1908 · 12-04-2020 12:45am

Hi everyone,

Did you heard about Andrew Aziz and bearbulltraders ? I watched couple of videos on youtube and this guy seems to be very legit because he is saying honestly that day trading is not easy, success rate is low and its taking months to practice on simulator even himself is using simulator even he wrote books about it. Also if someone is willing to connect with me i would appreciate a lot for asking questions and creating a surrounding for the profession i started looking into past 4 months.

JMMCapital · 12-04-2020 1:51am

damir1908 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Did you heard about Andrew Aziz and bearbulltraders ? I watched couple of videos on youtube and this guy seems to be very legit because he is saying honestly that day trading is not easy, success rate is low and its taking months to practice on simulator even himself is using simulator even he wrote books about it. Also if someone is willing to connect with me i would appreciate a lot for asking questions and creating a surrounding for the profession i started looking into past 4 months.

Any successful trader worth their salt would not be selling trading courses.
He is simply feeding you with stuff you want to hear sucking you into one of his courses.
Do you mean "Demo account" by simulator? Absolute waste of time you need to have skin in the game or you will never learn anything.

Jim2007 · 12-04-2020 7:59am

damir1908 wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Did you heard about Andrew Aziz and bearbulltraders ? I watched couple of videos on youtube and this guy seems to be very legit because he is saying honestly that day trading is not easy, success rate is low and its taking months to practice on simulator even himself is using simulator even he wrote books about it. Also if someone is willing to connect with me i would appreciate a lot for asking questions and creating a surrounding for the profession i started looking into past 4 months.

I spend thirty years working in the industry specializing in one area - performance and attribution and without hesitation I can tell you that the only long term successful traders are the ones that sell you a book, a course, data or a tool....

It really should not surprise you because trading is based on an incredible dumb idea - you can predict human behavior using mathematical equations that model neither that behavior nor the general economic situation in which that behavior occurs. But of course the math of finance are very seductive, because for short periods they appear give some kind of simple meaning to a complex situation and you will be lulled into believing it actually works... but in the long term you will be lucky to come away with the money you started with.

Now you can choose whether you want to make Andrew Ariz rich or grow your own wealth by learning to invest... the choice is yours. Personally I’m betting on Andrew, but I suppose there is a small chance you might bet on yourself.

damir1908 · 12-04-2020 10:43am

So your advise would be to stay away from this idea and learning other things ?

Jim2007 · 12-04-2020 10:52am

damir1908 wrote: »

So your advise would be to stay away from this idea and learning other things ?

What do you want to achieve and how much time are you willing to put in?

Day trading

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