Ukranian Airlines Flight PS752 Crash (See mod note/warning in post 270)

smurfjed

https://twitter.com/heshmatalavi/status/1215032641688346624?s=21

Appears to be taken by a biker with a helmet camera.

GM228

IE 222 wrote: »

CNN reporting Iranians have invited Boeing to the investigation.

Preliminary report was released from the Iran Civil Aviation Organisation yesterday:-

https://www.cao.ir/news/organizatioal/detail?public_content=27450&title=%DA%AF%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%B4-%D8%A7%D9%88%D9%84%D9%8A%D9%87-%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%B1%D8%B3%D9%8A-%D8%B3%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AD%D9%87--%D9%BE%D8%B1%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%B2-752--%D8%B4%D8%B1%DA%A9%D8%AA-%D9%87%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%BE%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%8A-%D8%A7%DA%A9%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%8A%D9%86%D9%8A-%D9%85%D9%86%D8%AA%D8%B4%D8%B1-%D8%B4%D8%AF

English Translation wrote:

Initial report of 752 Ukrainian Airlines Flight Accident Report released
Release Time: January 23, 2020 at 9:50 pm

The preliminary report on the accident investigation of the Ukrainian plane was released by the National Aviation Accident Investigation Team.

Ali Abedzadeh, head of the National Aviation Authority, said in a statement that measures taken since the launch of the investigation so far are based on a number of key issues, including: gathering preliminary information, setting up a crisis management team in the area, dispatching rescue teams to search and rescue sites, The first steps were to get passengers information from the airline and other authorities, such as the Migration Police, identifying the accident investigator and dispatching the accident team to the scene, Imam Khomeini Airport and Mehrabad Airport.Initial notification of the accident was carried out and according to the Code of Conduct for Civil Aviation Accidents and Incidents approved by the Cabinet, 11 accident investigation teams were formed.

The head of the civil aviation agency said: flight recorders (black boxes) have been found and have been handed over to the accident investigator. Documentation and evidence of the crash site were reviewed and the remaining parts of the aircraft were collected and transported to a safe location. Black boxes containing the Flight Recorder (FDR) and the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) were found by search and rescue agents and are in the possession of the accident investigation team. Both devices were damaged by accident and fire. There is memory in both devices, but physical damage is visible on them.

Abedzadeh stated that the Accident Investigation Team, in accordance with the standards set forth in annex 13 of the Chicago Convention, invited all States recognized as beneficiaries of this document to introduce their representatives in the disaster investigation process and now designate their own specialized team. And they are in the process of sending their aircraft to Iran to carry out their duties.

Describing the flight conditions of the aircraft, he said: "The aircraft first rises to an altitude of 8,000 feet and then the aircraft's information is removed from the radar screen and the aircraft collides with the ground and collapses. No radio messages were received by the pilot regarding unusual circumstances. According to eyewitness reports (people on the ground and high-altitude flight crew who observed and reported the incident), a fire was observed and added to the range, and after the aircraft collided with the ground, an explosion caused a collision. The crash happened and the plane's trajectory indicates that the plane was initially heading westward, turning right after the problem and was on its way back to the airport at the time of the crash.

He further said: "The accident site documentation shows that the plane's first collision with the ground was in the grounds of an amusement park. Has been.

Abedzadeh continued: Initial notification was given to Ukraine as the country of registration of the aircraft, the United States as the manufacturer, Sweden and Canada as the applicant countries whose nationals were in the aircraft, and Ukraine requested to be involved in the accident review process. Has introduced a team to participate in the disaster investigation, identification and transfer of the bodies of its nationals and other duties under the circumstances of the registrant and exploiter country, whose representatives will soon arrive in the country.

He said the plane had 167 passengers and nine crew members, all of whom died in the crash. There were 146 passengers with Iranian passports, 10 with Afghan passports, 5 with Canadian passports, 4 with Swedish passports, and 2 with Ukrainian passports and 9 flight crews, all of whom were Ukrainian nationals.

The head of the Civil Aviation Authority also said: "Some passengers may have multiple nationalities and be reported in another report with another nationality." The above list relates to a passport that left the Islamic Republic of Iran. The bodies and remains of the occupants were identified and transported to forensic medicine under the supervision of judicial authorities for identification and transfer formalities.

By gathering and completing the information, he said, the latest findings of the accident investigation will be formally published and publicly available.

The scheduled flight of Boeing 752 to Tehran-Kyiv Boeing 737-800 from the Ukrainian International Airlines with a UR-PSR registration mark departing from the park at 5:45 minutes and departing at 06:13 on Wednesday. 2010/8/18 Flight from Imam Khomeini Airport Runway. The above flight, under the control of the Imam Khomeini Airport Watch Tower, continued to climb, then delivered to the Mehrabad Flight Approximation Unit and was allowed to rise to 26,000 feet. After cutting off communication with the traffic control unit at 6:18 pm near Saba Shahr, Tehran province fell.

Abedzadeh at the end criticized some of the material published in the cyber space regarding the accident of the Ukrainian plane and the issue of the black boxes on the plane. Failure to send overseas flight registration boxes was a mistake taken by the reporter

The part in bold certainly seems to imply such.

murphaph

To be honest actions speak louder than words and if the reports of bulldozing wreckage (and at this early stage also human remains) are corroborated then that's all I need to know really.

I'll avoid commenting on what I think the root cause of this tragedy is though.

IE 222

GM228 wrote: »

Preliminary report was released from the Iran Civil Aviation Organisation yesterday:-




The part in bold certainly seems to imply such.

NTSB sending someone over as well.

IE 222

smurfjed wrote: »

Don’t you think that it might have taken a little bit more time to remove the bodies and map the location of the aircraft parts for analysis, so its a little bit early to have a JCB moving stuff to the hangar.

Possibly, I'm sure there is certain areas they can start clearing from early on. Using drones ect I'd presume speeds up the mapping process. They could of just been moving a piece in order to get to a body trapped underneath.

The picture shows an empty front loader so it's also quite possible they haven't moved anything off site just yet. I read somewhere yesterday the investigation team have a hanger available and will be placing parts there.

smurfjed

So you wouldn’t consider these actions to be sterilising the crash scene?

smurfjed

Another tweet..@eliozapalmer

CBS crew just visited the #Ukrainian airlines crash site west of Tehran. Nine am local time. Virtually all pieces of the plane were removed yesterday - say locals. Scavengers now picking site clean. No security. Not cordoned off. No sign of any investigators.

Letwin_Larry

smurfjed wrote: »

Don’t you think that it might have taken a little bit more time to remove the bodies and map the location of the aircraft parts for analysis, so its a little bit early to have a JCB moving stuff to the hangar.

the use of a JCB will destroy quite a lot of evidence. hardly an intelligent way to collect evidence imo.

Nijmegen

They're still maintaining that talk of a missile strike is "US psychological operations". They've basically bulldozed the crash site and now you have credible reports from international journalists on site that the chance for a proper forensic investigation are nil. The Iranians got their hands on the black boxes first. Maybe they were damaged in the crash, but given all the other circumstances at play you just couldn't rule out the idea they tampered with them. This is a bald faced cover up that will further compound the injustice meted out on the bereaved families. Blood boiling stuff.

IE 222

smurfjed wrote: »

So you wouldn’t consider these actions to be sterilising the crash scene?

Didn't say that either. All I said was, their was word from an investigator yesterday that they were beginning to move some parts to a hanger they had set up. The Ukrainians are there now so it will be interesting to hear what they've to say about it.

Fritzbox

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

the use of a JCB will destroy quite a lot of evidence. hardly an intelligent way to collect evidence imo.

Unless, of course, the Iranian authorities are already fully confident in the cause of the crash so need not worry about contaminating/corrupting evidence?

At least nobody is buying the uncontained engine failure as a cause of the crash, which is an improvement.

EB_2013

Any idea of how many other flights were taking off around the time as flight PS752? I can't understand how you could mistake the aircraft when a mobile app like FR24 can identify everything about it.

Storm 10

New video on Sky News appears to show a missile striking the aircraft, it comes in fast from the left then a big explosion certainly if true its the evidence they need to support the missile claim.

https://news.sky.com/story/iran-plane-crash-what-the-new-video-shows-and-why-it-seems-genuine-11905052

kravmaga

The Americans are saying 2 SA 15 medium range missiles were fired from the Russian made Tor 1 missile command and control system. The Sky news footage only shows 1 missile in the air.

How could the Iranian missile ground crew mistake a civilian airliner as a threat so close to the international airport??

Fritzbox

kravmaga wrote: »

How could the Iranian missile ground crew mistake a civilian airliner as a threat so close to the international airport??

The weapon system used by the Iranians is basically Soviet cold-war era design, developed to accompany and protect armies of the Warsaw Pact in the battle against NATO air power. It's electronic aircraft detection and identification systems were really designed to operate in an all-military context during actual conflicts. It was not originally designed to operate in peace-time civilian environments, especially not near major international airports. This Tor air-defence system was probably activated on that night in light of a high risk of air-raids by the US following Iranian retaliatory missile strikes on Iraqi targets. Both the Tor system, and its crew, would have been poorly integrated into the civilian air-traffic control system.

BluePlanet

Nijmegen wrote: »

They're still maintaining that talk of a missile strike is "US psychological operations". They've basically bulldozed the crash site and now you have credible reports from international journalists on site that the chance for a proper forensic investigation are nil. The Iranians got their hands on the black boxes first. Maybe they were damaged in the crash, but given all the other circumstances at play you just couldn't rule out the idea they tampered with them. This is a bald faced cover up that will further compound the injustice meted out on the bereaved families. Blood boiling stuff.

"The Iranians got their hands on the black boxes first."

Um yeah, that's exactly what is supposed to happen.
The crash site is in their country.

Nijmegen

BluePlanet wrote: »

"The Iranians got their hands on the black boxes first."

Um yeah, that's exactly what is supposed to happen.
The crash site is in their country.

Naturally! What I meant more was that if you follow the sequence of events, it transpiring that the black box data is "damaged" does not pass the smell test.

CJhaughey

Given the amount of MANPADS in that part of the world it may just be a case of one trigger happy individual that did this.
The MH17 in Ukraine was downed by one of these so it may just be the case that this is the same thing.

smurfjed

Given the amount of MANPADS in that part of the world it may just be a case of one trigger happy individual that did this.
The MH17 in Ukraine was downed by one of these so it may just be the case that this is the same thing.

Before your post, did you happen to google the TOR or the BUK missile systems ? They aren’t exactly MANPAD’s

CJhaughey

I was speculating, and until the facts are actually known then that's all this thread is doing.
Sure it may well be a TOR but given how lethal any SAM system is to a civilian aircraft the result will be the same as a MANPADS.

smurfjed

The MH17 in Ukraine was downed by one of these so it may just be the case that this is the same thing.

Speculation is great, but it needs to be Based on some Technical knowledge, the report for MH17 was released, does it state that it was shot down by a MANPAD?

kravmaga

CJhaughey wrote: »

I was speculating, and until the facts are actually known then that's all this thread is doing.
Sure it may well be a TOR but given how lethal any SAM system is to a civilian aircraft the result will be the same as a MANPADS.

The American, Canadians and the British are saying it was a TOR-M1 SA-15 All weather low to medium altitude short range missile system, its mobile.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_missile_system

One of these, see photos, not a MANPADs system

kravmaga

CJhaughey wrote: »

The MH17 in Ukraine was downed by one of these so it may just be the case that this is the same thing.

The MH 17 was shot down by a BUK SA-11 missile system, not a MANPAD.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUBWhaXj8QA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHzavUArAXQ

Discodog

Iran now saying that they will announce the cause of the crash tomorrow.

IE 222

Seems they are rebuilding the aircraft in a hanger. They haven't been able to access the recorders as of yet but expecting to. Last recording from the pilot to the tower suggests all was fine.

https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-news-intl-01-10-2020/index.html

Discodog

The Iranian Ambassador got a little heated.

http://news.sky.com/story/iran-plane-crash-highly-likely-jet-was-hit-by-iranian-missile-leaders-say-as-new-video-emerges-11904978

IE 222

Noticed this earlier. Would this resound a missile strike.

A lot of the other shrapnel pictures seem to be just rocks other than the hole in the tail fin.

wcooba

IE 222 wrote: »

Noticed this earlier. Would this resound a missile strike.

A lot of the other shrapnel pictures seem to be just rocks other than the hole in the tail fin.

Apparently Tor warhead weights only 15kg while Buk is 70kg. That may somehow explain less visible fuselage damage.

MuffinsDa

As predicted here before, it’s confirmed. Iran has owned up to shooting it down, citing human error.

G_R

Link here to BBC article

BBC News - Iran plane crash: Ukrainian jet was 'unintentionally' shot down
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621