Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VII (threadbanned users listed in OP)

Leroy42

But can you not see the hypocrisy Rigolo? China will just tell Trump that when he takes his troops off the streets and stops attacking the press they may start to listen to his complaints but until then he can just go away.

US has no moral authority here, unfortunately.

Given Trumo position that it is the role of the government to crack down on any protests why do you think he cares about HK protests? He doesn't, just like he doesn't care about the human rights abuses in NK, in Saudi Arabia or Russia.

China is merely a simple distraction, so people like you can think that Trump is being tough and putting America First and keeping the US in the lead of the world, when the truth is that that Trump have dragged the US off the world stage and certainly lost a huge amount of diplomatic power.

Timberrrrrrrr

Leroy42 wrote: »

But can you not see the hypocrisy Rigolo? China will just tell Trump that when he takes his troops off the streets and stops attacking the press they may start to listen to his complaints but until then he can just go away.

US has no moral authority here, unfortunately.

Given Trumo position that it is the role of the government to crack down on any protests why do you think he cares about HK protests? He doesn't, just like he doesn't care about the human rights abuses in NK, in Saudi Arabia or Russia.

China is merely a simple distraction, so people like you can think that Trump is being tough and putting America First and keeping the US in the lead of the world, when the truth is that that Trump have dragged the US off the world stage and certainly lost a huge amount of diplomatic power.

Trump rants on Twitter about the Chinese and Iranian responses to protests


Then threatens to send in the military when US citizens protest

The hypocrisy would be comedic if it wasn't so serious.

Leroy42

Of course Trump can win, nobody here thinks it is not possible. That is democracy for you. People are allowed to vote for whichever candidate they wish, regardless of the reasons they do.

What is very clear, and something that was pretty clear in 2016 but was adamantly denied by Trump supporters, is that anybody that votes for Trump in 2020 is doing so in the clear knowledge of his will to be authoritarian, to abuse the rule of law, to limit the democratic right of citizens, to target racial tensions and to continue to withdraw America from it former position of leader or the world.

RIGOLO

Carfacemandog wrote: »

You know well that China has received lots of criticism from all sides, so you can drop that one. What is clear though is that once Trump started copying Xi over the last week, Trump supporters became very fond of these measures.

Nobody seems all that surprised though, given the cult-like devotion Trumps supporters have to him whereby they agree when he says the sky is green, then agree when the next day he says it is purple and only a fool would believe it is green, then agree the next day when he again declares that the sky is indeed, green.

I just googled and found 400 tweets by Hollywood a-listers condeming Trump, and thats just this last 2 weeks.
Can you find 40 condeming China by the same leftist cabal

So no China isnt getting the same level of criticism from all sides by any stretch of reality ...

RIGOLO

Leroy42 wrote: »

Of course Trump can win, nobody here thinks it is not possible. That is democracy for you. People are allowed to vote for whichever candidate they wish, regardless of the reasons they do.

What is very clear, and something that was pretty clear in 2016 but was adamantly denied by Trump supporters, is that anybody that votes for Trump in 2020 is doing so in the clear knowledge of his will to be authoritarian, to abuse the rule of law, to limit the democratic right of citizens, to target racial tensions and to continue to withdraw America from it former position of leader or the world.

I guess you havent been paying attention to President TRumps 2020 Primary numbers.. they are stratispheric in relation to any past incumbent.

People voted for candidate Trump, they got President Trump I and now they are voting for President TRump II

da_miser

RIGOLO wrote: »

I guess you havent been paying attention to President TRumps 2020 Primary numbers.. they are stratispheric in relation to any past incumbent.

People voted for candidate Trump, they got President Trump I and now they are voting for President TRump II

The last few days of riots in Dem controlled States/Cities have only solidified Trumps previous voters and won him a whole lot of previous Dem voters, i see a Reagan level victory on the cards.

Cookie_Monster

RIGOLO wrote: »

I just googled and found 400 tweets by Hollywood a-listers condeming Trump, and thats just this last 2 weeks.
Can you find 40 condeming China by the same leftist cabal

So no China isnt getting the same level of criticism from all sides by any stretch of reality ...

why would you consider what they say relevant in the slightest? How about world government responses?

People voted for candidate Trump, they got President Trump I and now they are voting for President TRump II

As you should well know they actually did not, just the outdated broken system in the states got him in regardless.

abff

RIGOLO wrote: »

I guess you havent been paying attention to President TRumps 2020 Primary numbers.. they are stratispheric in relation to any past incumbent.

People voted for candidate Trump, they got President Trump I and now they are voting for President TRump II

I think the question is not whether people are voting for Trump (and it seems that he still has a lot of supporters), but why on Earth they are continuing to do so and whether this will change as a result of how he has dealt with the Coronavirus and the current unrest over last week’s events.

I presume from your posts that you are a supporter of Trump and I would be interested to hear the reasons why you feel he is worthy of a second term.

duploelabs

RIGOLO wrote: »

Like all investments in life, one should only bet what one can afford to lose.

The only issue I may next time round when TRump wins is Im not sure the local offie still stacks Samuel Adams beer.... Im open to suggestions on replacements that will have an equal historical legacy ...

OK the second half doesn't make sense, but whatever you bet on Trump I'll match and give the profits to Barretstown, and I'm sure there's a few here that will join me

Podge_irl

RIGOLO wrote: »

I just googled and found 400 tweets by Hollywood a-listers condeming Trump, and thats just this last 2 weeks.
Can you find 40 condeming China by the same leftist cabal

So no China isnt getting the same level of criticism from all sides by any stretch of reality ...

Is finding more criticism of the leader of their own country rather than one half a world away supposed to reveal anything remotely relevant?

How many pro-China tweets? Seeing as you were asserting that people were pro-China?

Quin_Dub

da_miser wrote: »

The last few days of riots in Dem controlled States/Cities have only solidified Trumps previous voters and won him a whole lot of previous Dem voters, i see a Reagan level victory on the cards.

Not so far it would seem.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

I know it's the Daily Kos , but they are reporting on multiple other pretty well established polling companies

DAILY TRACK POLLS and other POLLS, in real time, show Trump's approval collapsing in just 3 days

YouGov Polling - Trumps Net Disapproval rating has moved from -6% on May 30th to -15% on June 2nd

Morning Consult - Net Disapproval moved from -11% to -15%

IPSOS - Net Disapproval moved from -12% to -17%

Monmouth - Net Disapproval moved from -8% to -12%

So , it would seem that so far at least , his actions are not being well received and are not "converting into votes"

From the latest IPSOS poll on Monday

RIGOLO

Spent the morning listening to two intelectualls, ardent anti-TRumpers discussing the 2020 election.

P.J. O’Rourke and Lionel Shriver on the Battle for the White House YOUTubE - Intelligence Squared

Its a few months old but there is always value in learning from the past.

I like to listen to opposing views , a bit like eating ones veg when you were small, we can all benefit from the unpalatable periodically.

Anyways, its obvisously pre the current rioting but interesting none the less.
These are 2 very astute commentators whos livelihood is spent observing the observable and the not so. Anti-TRumpers will enjoy it, if only for the clever wittisims PJ the satirist throws at Trump.
My takeaways which convince me even more Trump will win..
1) There is no passion, not an iota of it when they are discussing the Democrat candidates , Democrat machine or Democrat message, their viewpoints on Biden are best summed up by Lionel (what a woman) who describes him as the only man who interrupts himself.
They got more excited and more energy in their voices when talking about TRump
2) Their criticisim of Trump voters is mostly condescending, doubling down on the deplorables type attitude. Very dismissive and little interest in seeing them as peopel who made an informed decision.
3) The audience on cue took all the bait and responded as obedient acolytes do to all the cliched comments and Trump bait anecdotes.
4) Most of their serious criticisms of TRump administration (when they werent just being comedic) would not hold water in any reasoned debate where it wasnt an echo chamber of nodding heads.

4 years into it all, even the intellectuals have learned nothing and are repeating 2015-2016 mistakes.. Roll on 2020 its a landslide for DT.

Thargor

RIGOLO wrote: »

Like all investments in life, one should only bet what one can afford to lose.

The only issue I may next time round when TRump wins is Im not sure the local offie still stacks Samuel Adams beer.... Im open to suggestions on replacements that will have an equal historical legacy ...

Why do you capitalise the R in Trump?

da_miser

abff wrote: »

I think the question is not whether people are voting for Trump (and it seems that he still has a lot of supporters), but why on Earth they are continuing to do so and whether this will change as a result of how he has dealt with the Coronavirus and the current unrest over last week’s events.

I presume from your posts that you are a supporter of Trump and I would be interested to hear the reasons why you feel he is worthy of a second term.

Take of the blinkers, its easy to see why Trump will win.
Pre Covid-19
Economy booming
Withdrawing troops from Afghanistan
Exposing the Dems selling out USA to China, transfer of tech, patents, jobs and so on
Don't underestimate the public love of the military, Trump is one of them
The obvious BS of the Russian collusion , only a idiot still believes these Dem lies, and now every day it look like projection as the Dems are in bed with China big style.
The most simple reason of all , USA used to lead the world in all fields, it has fallen behind and its clear to see, Trump comes along with MAGA, very easy to connect to, the pubic want success, Obama told them those days are gone and to accept it, Trump said Hell No! We are going to MAGA.
Land slide in election is coming, i can feel it building.

da_miser

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Not so far it would seem.

Clinton 99% Trump 1%
you know the score, polls are not to be relied on
You can see the tide is turning.
Reddit, normally 100% orange man bad, but yesterday i notice a load of topics about how the Dems are encouraging these riots, enabling them to go on, in a nut shell they are saying Trump is correct and getting up voted, and huge change from the normal.

Tchaikovsky

pixelburp wrote: »

It wasn't without reason some claimed worries of authoritarianism was nothing but histrionics; Trump's bad but not that bad, they cried. Honestly, the histrionics are beginning to sound merely prescient: these are the actions of a wannabe dictator at worst, and a paper tiger at best, trying to flex his muscle 'cos he idolises "toughness" as a default response.

While he hides in his bunker like the little bitch he is.
Seriously, this whole thing couldn't have gone worse from the bleakest predictions back in November 2016. Perhaps nuclear war, which he's threatened a few times, and there is still time...
The guy's gone above and beyond with this level of evil and destruction.

pixelburp

da_miser wrote: »

Take of the blinkers, its easy to see why Trump will win.
Pre Covid-19
Economy booming

[...]

This again? Pre CoVid might as well be 30 years ago for all the relevance it will have during the election cycle. Right this minute, the economy is in tatters, millions out of a job & unless Trump's campaign promotes an enticing stimulus package, nobody except the base will pay heed to "what used to be". None of Trump's signature "MAGA" policies went through, not least the failure to repeal healthcare while controlling all 3 tiers of government. The current riots & CoVid are showing Trump is out of his depth in handling an actual, demonstrable crisis.

One swallow doesn't mean a summer, and 2016 doesn't become a silver bullet to every election discussion. 538 gave Trump a 33% chance of winning, he won. He capitalised on the ennui within the Rust Belt. Past behaviour is no indictor of future result, but a sitting President should always be considered the favourite, bar mitigating circumstances. There are a lot of those at the moment.

Quin_Dub

Just a reminder to all - Let's avoid the nicknames etc. here please.

Keep it civil

Thanks

da_miser

In this PC world the question can be leading and effect the truth, people will give the PC answer.
Is Trump correct about the rioters? you will get a PC poll, orange man bad, but in reality once they go into the voting boot the truth will come out of them.
As you can see in the following poll, they agree with Trump, but ask them the question "is trump correct and we should have the military on the streets?" you know the answer would be "NO, orange man bad"
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1267852145996505097

Carfacemandog

da_miser wrote: »

The last few days of riots in Dem controlled States/Cities have only solidified Trumps previous voters and won him a whole lot of previous Dem voters, i see a Reagan level victory on the cards.

Another problem with this line of wishful thinking from you, on top of the one Quin Dub pointed out:

Carfacemandog wrote: »

Missouri, Georgia, Ohio, North Carolina, Florida, Indiana, Tennessee and Texas are all hot spot areas with Republican governors.

At least four of those are key swing states.

pixelburp

da_miser wrote: »

In this PC world the question can be leading and effect the truth, people will give the PC answer.
Is Trump correct about the rioters? you will get a PC poll, orange man bad, but in reality once they go into the voting boot the truth will come out of them.
As you can see in the following poll, they agree with Trump, but ask them the question "is trump correct and we should have the military on the streets?" you know the answer would be "NO, orange man bad"

That's a whole lot of projection going on there, and ironic you talk of leading questions or bias when your own is showing. Can't discuss hypothetical polls that don't exist, least of all ones that you decided are "orange man bad", which again just says more about you.

You haven't given a single fact or poll that shows there's a groundswell of opinion favouring Trump. 2016 is not the same as 2020: Trump has to stand by his results and actions as President. His one card, the economy, is in tatters. Unless you've seen stats saying otherwise? Easy to promise big things from the outside: hard to promise big things when you've had 4 years to deliver them.

Quin_Dub

da_miser wrote: »

Clinton 99% Trump 1%
you know the score, polls are not to be relied on
You can see the tide is turning.
Reddit, normally 100% orange man bad, but yesterday i notice a load of topics about how the Dems are encouraging these riots, enabling them to go on, in a nut shell they are saying Trump is correct and getting up voted, and huge change from the normal.

Where though?. whatever Reddit channel you are looking at aside , there hasn't been a single piece of evidence to suggest that Trump has received any electoral benefit from his recent actions.

And - The "tide turning" - He's the incumbent , he shouldn't have to turn any tide.

The Economy is what matters and all historical evidence suggests that the state of the Economy about 6 months out from the Election is the critical time in terms of people making decisions on voting.

The bottom line is "Are people better off now than they were the last time they voted"?

The answer to that question is a categorical No.

Trump current actions are not making him popular with more people ,there simply aren't current Democrat or Independent voters who are looking at what Trump has done over the last week or so and thinking "I'm changing my vote , I'm voting Trump".

His actions might be energising his existing support base to be more vocal in places like Reddit or elsewhere , which might explain what you are seeing , but an actual shift in the mix of voters isn't borne out by any data.

In fact what you see is a hardening of the negative opinion - The volume of those that "Strongly" oppose him is increasing and only 12% or so of the near 60% were in the "somewhat oppose" bucket. That's a large part of the reason I don't buy the "Shy Trump voter" angle.

If you were this mythical "Shy" supporter and you had the choice to respond "Oppose" or "Strongly Oppose" are we really supposed to believe that you are SO shy you chose the "Strongly oppose" option?

Carfacemandog

da_miser wrote: »

Clinton 99% Trump 1%

Got a source for that one?

Leroy42

da_miser wrote: »

Take of the blinkers, its easy to see why Trump will win.
Pre Covid-19
Economy booming
Withdrawing troops from Afghanistan
Exposing the Dems selling out USA to China, transfer of tech, patents, jobs and so on
Don't underestimate the public love of the military, Trump is one of them
The obvious BS of the Russian collusion , only a idiot still believes these Dem lies, and now every day it look like projection as the Dems are in bed with China big style.
The most simple reason of all , USA used to lead the world in all fields, it has fallen behind and its clear to see, Trump comes along with MAGA, very easy to connect to, the pubic want success, Obama told them those days are gone and to accept it, Trump said Hell No! We are going to MAGA.
Land slide in election is coming, i can feel it building.

Well, if we allowed to simply draw a line before something happens that is bad, then I think JFK has a good chance in 2020!

Leroy42

da_miser wrote: »

Clinton 99% Trump 1%
you know the score, polls are not to be relied on
You can see the tide is turning.
Reddit, normally 100% orange man bad, but yesterday i notice a load of topics about how the Dems are encouraging these riots, enabling them to go on, in a nut shell they are saying Trump is correct and getting up voted, and huge change from the normal.

If you dismiss polls, what are you basing you position on?

Your reading of some Reddit posts? Really?

The tide is turning? What was the pro v Anti trump post levels in say, January. What are they now?

timsey tiger

da_miser wrote: »

Take of the blinkers, its easy to see why Trump will win.
Pre Covid-19
Economy booming
Withdrawing troops from Afghanistan
Exposing the Dems selling out USA to China, transfer of tech, patents, jobs and so on
Don't underestimate the public love of the military, Trump is one of them
The obvious BS of the Russian collusion , only a idiot still believes these Dem lies, and now every day it look like projection as the Dems are in bed with China big style.
The most simple reason of all , USA used to lead the world in all fields, it has fallen behind and its clear to see, Trump comes along with MAGA, very easy to connect to, the pubic want success, Obama told them those days are gone and to accept it, Trump said Hell No! We are going to MAGA.
Land slide in election is coming, i can feel it building.

Ha Ha - land slide all-right.

Economy - ffed
Coal - More shut down in last 4 years(I guess he wasn't digging after all)
Covid 19 - 100,000+ dead (mainly older -> redder voters) millions sick with it so big bills
riots already - and summer hasn't started yet.

I'm betting all three blue next January

FatherTed

RIGOLO wrote: »

I just googled and found 400 tweets by Hollywood a-listers condeming Trump, and thats just this last 2 weeks.
Can you find 40 condeming China by the same leftist cabal

So no China isnt getting the same level of criticism from all sides by any stretch of reality ...

Funny how the right are always going on about hollywood liberals yet they're the ones who've elected celebrities as presidents in Reagan and Trump.

Foxtrol

da_miser wrote: »

In this PC world the question can be leading and effect the truth, people will give the PC answer.
Is Trump correct about the rioters? you will get a PC poll, orange man bad, but in reality once they go into the voting boot the truth will come out of them.
As you can see in the following poll, they agree with Trump, but ask them the question "is trump correct and we should have the military on the streets?" you know the answer would be "NO, orange man bad"
https://twitter.com/PpollingNumbers/status/1267852145996505097

Did you stop at that part of their polling?

Trump voters optimism that he is leading the country in the right direction is at an all time low and Biden has a double digit lead on Trump on both issues related to the protests.

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1268147715994800129?s=20

https://twitter.com/MorningConsult/status/1267854943064645635?s=20

namloc1980

.

Deluded.

Foxtrol

pixelburp wrote: »

I've been struggling to keep track of events as they happen, things feel to be spiralling out of control moreso than (say) Ferguson - but I'd speculate one of the lasting images of the whole tragedy will be Trump having a peaceful protest cleared with riot police & teargas. All so he could have a photo op at a church (and couldn't even manage to look naturally pious, just a sulking old man holding a bible like a placard).

Say what you will about the "politician" but they at least understand the importance of optics: you can quibble about the need for a harsh response against the actual looting, but rolling through a peaceful protest (and the 1st amendment) with military police is a colossally bad look. And makes a very worrying, very pronounced declaration about America's supposed principles of democracy.

It wasn't without reason some claimed worries of authoritarianism was nothing but histrionics; Trump's bad but not that bad, they cried. Honestly, the histrionics are beginning to sound merely prescient: these are the actions of a wannabe dictator at worst, and a paper tiger at best, trying to flex his muscle 'cos he idolises "toughness" as a default response.

The comments yesterday morning were that the administration were celebrating how it worked out and that they believed it was an 'iconic moment' but it is increasingly looking like a terrible move and they know it. The Chief of Staff and others have thrown Ivanka under the bus for the idea, Sec of Defense is claiming that he didn't know what was happening, and the parks services are releasing lies that don't in any way align with what happened.

I said it at the time that the photo op would drive the GOP candidates up for election insane and from the way they are running away from questions it looks accurate.

https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1267995719660720128?s=20