Property Market 2020

Mic 1972

lastusername wrote: »

I doubt many will, as I imagine the vast majority don't do this kind of thing.

I would imagine a lot are thinking about it right now. Rent-a-room means sharing kitchen and having to worry about people taking precautions
I'm running out of Dettol and Hand Sanitizers, not going to take unnecessary risks

OttoPilot

Mic 1972 wrote: »

It doesn't mean they are expected to sell assets just because tenants are going suspend payments
LL will protect their income like we all do

How exactly? They will just own a non performing asset like banks ten years ago

Claw Hammer

OttoPilot wrote: »

Investing in property is risky. Nobody forced them to become landlords.

Yes and nobody can force them to let tenants lie rent free. Don't pay, don't stay.

Knex*

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Would you risk your health for 600 euro per month?
People going out at night, using public transports. I'm not taking chances

I would rather not throw people out on their arse in this climate though.

It's not really about the money.

OttoPilot

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Yes and nobody can force them to let tenants lie rent free. Don't pay, don't stay.

How would you enforce that? If it's a case where many people lose their jobs, public support will swing behind renters relief. Banks are suspending repayments, why are private landlords any different?

lastusername

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I would imagine a lot are thinking about it right now. Rent-a-room means sharing kitchen and having to worry about people taking precautions
I'm running out of Dettol and Hand Sanitizers, not going to take unnecessary risks

If you're taking precautions, I'm sure they're taking precautions and no reason to turf them out. We're all in this together and we get through it by sticking together and taking precautions for the next few weeks. It's understandable to be worried but let's not go overboard!

Claw Hammer

OttoPilot wrote: »

How would you enforce that? If it's a case where many people lose their jobs, public support will swing behind renters relief. Banks are suspending repayments, why are private landlords any different?

Banks can afford it. In any case it is only a suspension of repayments. the banks will get it back later. landlords will have to throw out delinquent tenants. They can't be forced to subsidise tenants at their own expense.

Mic 1972

lastusername wrote: »

If you're taking precautions, I'm sure they're taking precautions and no reason to turf them out. We're all in this together and we get through it by sticking together and taking precautions for the next few weeks. It's understandable to be worried but let's not go overboard!

They aren't taking precautions. I took the decision after monitoring their habits the last few days. Open mouth coughing in the kitchen, not using hand sanitizers that i supply specifically. Both not allowed working from home and both using public transports daily

I'm not taking my chances

Mic 1972

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Banks can afford it. In any case it is only a suspension of repayments. the banks will get it back later. landlords will have to throw out delinquent tenants. They can't be forced to subsidise tenants at their own expense.

I agree with you. Some LLs will have a hard time in the near future

lastusername

Mic 1972 wrote: »

They aren't taking precautions. I took the decision after monitoring their habits the last few days. Open mouth coughing in the kitchen, not using hand sanitizers that i supply specifically. Both not allowed working from home and both using public transports daily

I'm not taking my chances

Fair enough so. Silly to not be taking some precautions.

OttoPilot

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Banks can afford it. In any case it is only a suspension of repayments. the banks will get it back later. landlords will have to throw out delinquent tenants. They can't be forced to subsidise tenants at their own expense.

There is no guarantee the bank gets it back later.

And landlords can be forced. What choice do they have if it becomes government policy? You have a very pro tenant party waiting in the wings (SF) and another one looking to take their momentum (FF).

Mic 1972

OttoPilot wrote: »

There is no guarantee the bank gets it back later.

And landlords can be forced. What choice do they have if it becomes government policy? You have a very pro tenant party waiting in the wings (SF) and another one looking to take their momentum (FF).

All of this will devalue buy-to-rent property, there are a lot of investors in the property market who contribute to keep the prices high, they will pull the plug if investment return is affected or not guaranteed

OttoPilot

Mic 1972 wrote: »

All of this will devalue buy-to-rent property, there are a lot of investors in the property market who contribute to keep the prices high, they will pull the plug if investment return is affected or not guaranteed

Correct, if they can find buyers. Property is notoriously illiquid.

Browney7

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Banks can afford it. In any case it is only a suspension of repayments. the banks will get it back later. landlords will have to throw out delinquent tenants. They can't be forced to subsidise tenants at their own expense.

You're right they will have to evict but I don't fancy a LL's chances of getting a speedy resolution if several thousand disputes hit the RTB over the next few months.

Assetbacked

For those looking to buy, offer far lower than asking. If already you have an offer on the table, reduce it significantly. Take advantage of the panic.

SozBbz

Assetbacked wrote: »

For those looking to buy, offer far lower than asking. If already you have an offer on the table, reduce it significantly. Take advantage of the panic.

You're assuming all sellers are desperate to sell. If I were selling, I'd take my property off the market and relist it in the autumn.

Assetbacked

SozBbz wrote: »

You're assuming all sellers are desperate to sell. If I were selling, I'd take my property off the market and relist it in the autumn.

Not desperate to sell, but it would seem clear that for those who want to sell and are worried about the uncertainty, it would be worth getting 5-10% off the price you were willing to pay them yesterday.

Browney7

Assetbacked wrote: »

Not desperate to sell, but it would seem clear that for those who want to sell and are worried about the uncertainty, it would be worth getting 5-10% off the price you were willing to pay them yesterday.

People looking to take advantage of the CGT exemption introduced early in the decade may wish to sell anyway.

Global banks are looking at major dents to profits and large provisions for bad debts for loans advanced to certain sectors. Will they be so willing to lend out money and tie up capital on 90% LTV mortgages in a very volatile and uncertain climate? If they do they could lose more, if they don't they could trigger declines in prices by not providing funding to the demand side. Cash is king right now

Global Financial system has gone totally to "Risk Off" mode. Bank Of Ireland SP hammered again today

vmb

Assetbacked wrote: »

For those looking to buy, offer far lower than asking. If already you have an offer on the table, reduce it significantly. Take advantage of the panic.

Currently selling. If the buyer tries to play that game i'd move instantly to the next buyer (multiple buyers in the queue).

it is not serious behaviour once the house is sale agreed. I've sold the house in good faith and expect the same from the buyer. But hopefully not all buyers are like you.

nerrad01

vmb wrote: »

Currently selling. If the buyer tries to play that game i'd move instantly to the next buyer (multiple buyers in the queue).

it is not serious behaviour once the house is sale agreed. I've sold the house in good faith and expect the same from the buyer. But hopefully not all buyers are like you.

You havent sold anything until contracts are finalised. There is a once in a generation event unfolding that could result in a complete change in circumstance for the buyer. Why should they complete the sale if it negatively impacts them? you might find that long queue of buyers quickly disappearing.

JamesMason

Assetbacked wrote: »

For those looking to buy, offer far lower than asking. If already you have an offer on the table, reduce it significantly. Take advantage of the panic.

Those that refused bids at asking price, in the hope of getting XX over the asking because "yer man down the road got XXX last year", will be kicking themselves soon.

Markcheese

It's a market , both buyers and sellers can get on their high horses about this and that , but it's what's paid at the end that counts .... If you can afford to hold on and not sell ,good for you , if you're worried this ll kick start a property slowdown and you get out quick then also good for you , same for the buyer ...

Claw Hammer

OttoPilot wrote: »

There is no guarantee the bank gets it back later.

And landlords can be forced. What choice do they have if it becomes government policy? You have a very pro tenant party waiting in the wings (SF) and another one looking to take their momentum (FF).

It would be unconstitutional to force landlords to subsidise tenants to that extent. The government can't do anything about that. The banks aren't guaranteed but they are secured.

OttoPilot

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It would be unconstitutional to force landlords to subsidise tenants to that extent. The government can't do anything about that. The banks aren't guaranteed but they are secured.

Landlords could attempt to evict people en masse but it wont end well. They need to face facts that it looks like their investment will become severely impaired. Look at the bloodbath that is occurring in stock markets.

Assetbacked

Claw Hammer wrote: »

It would be unconstitutional to force landlords to subsidise tenants to that extent. The government can't do anything about that. The banks aren't guaranteed but they are secured.

My guess would be a rental tax credit combined with rent freeze, brought in as an emergency measure with any breaches strongly enforced. Don't think many would complain as it ensures security for both landlords and tenants.

Mic 1972

Assetbacked wrote: »

My guess would be a rental tax credit combined with rent freeze, brought in as an emergency measure with any breaches strongly enforced. Don't think many would complain as it ensures security for both landlords and tenants.

Rents are going to go down, i don't see much need for a rent freeze
During the last recessions rents were half of what they are today

Mic 1972

OttoPilot wrote: »

Landlords could attempt to evict people en masse but it wont end well. They need to face facts that it looks like their investment will become severely impaired. Look at the bloodbath that is occurring in stock markets.

LL are not going to evict people en mass. They will address the ones who don't pay as it's always been

pearcider

SozBbz wrote: »

You're assuming all sellers are desperate to sell. If I were selling, I'd take my property off the market and relist it in the autumn.

Give it up. The stock market is after crashing. Like I said it would. Cash is king. Property is going to fall massively this year: it’s going to give up all its inflated gains since 2012 which have been entirely down to the trillions of quantitive easing that the central banks engaged in. But you can’t print your way out of a pandemic. The bubble is popped and the game is over.

JamesMason

pearcider wrote: »

Give it up. The stock market is after crashing. Like I said it would. Cash is king. Property is going to fall massively this year: it’s going to give up all its inflated gains since 2012 which have been entirely down to the trillions of quantitive easing that the central banks engaged in. But you can’t print your way out of a pandemic. The bubble is popped and the game is over.

Totally agree pearcider. We have all entered a recession that is going to take a very long time to crawl out of.

Claw Hammer

OttoPilot wrote: »

Landlords could attempt to evict people en masse but it wont end well. They need to face facts that it looks like their investment will become severely impaired. Look at the bloodbath that is occurring in stock markets.

Landlords will serve notice of rent arrears and proceed to notice of termination if not paid on time. There's nothing obliging a landlord to simply not attempt to recover the rent. Landlords are well aware that they are always at the mercy of economic conditions, however that doesn't mean that they have no protection.