Property Market 2020

Claw Hammer

Shelga wrote: »

Just back from another viewing of a 2 bed apartment, advertised at €275k. The first thing the estate agent said to me was "the owner is actually looking for at least €290k"- why waste my time then?

Advertise it at the price you want for it. Stop playing these stupid games.

So what? The owner can look for what they like. Just because something is advertised at a price does not mean it is available at that price. it might sell for less or more. it is up to you to work out the value and the price you will pay. If you see something advertised at too low a price you can be sure that the idea is to get a bidding war going. it the price is too high it is your signal to wait in the long grass on a lowball offer.

neutral guy

Was watching property at 850K in County Louth last night.The same vases of flowers was on every photo of every room.They probably was carrying them from room to room to make photos more attractive.I was watching those photos with smile thinking Keep going lads,Keep going ! The price is not what you want price is what you will get.

Edit: Trough this recession I found the very good sign about when recession starting.The recession starting when number of property for sale are rising on posh areas.Those guys always getting news first.And there is plenty houses for sale at the moment,more than usual I would say.

sanfranbest

Why do Estate Agents have such a bad reputation?

I have viewed many properties in Dublin over the years and my experience with EA’s has not been great.
I absolutely hate low ball asking prices, I viewed a house last year listed for 399k, when I made an offer for 399k the EA said the seller would not accept anything less that 415k, the EA said there was no other offers on the property, I made an offer at 415k, then the next day the EA said he had received an offer of 420k. I backed out and the listing stayed on Daft for a few months.
There needs to be some kind of transparency in the bidding process, I always feel the other bidders could be friends of the seller pushing up the price.
There should be some kind of rule or law that you must show proof of mortgage approval or proof of funds for cash buyers in order for the EA to accept bids.
Some new websites are showing current bids, not sure how they accept bids, and do they vet the bidders?
The whole process of estate agent’s business, from viewing to purchasing is horrendous.
Estate agents do not realize that every person they meet at a viewing might some day be a seller and if they treat them right and respectfully, they might use the EA to sell their property.
I maybe selling a property in the next few years and I would not use any of the estate agents I have met.

0gac3yjefb5sv7

sanfranbest wrote: »

Why do Estate Agents have such a bad reputation?

I have viewed many properties in Dublin over the years and my experience with EA’s has not been great.
I absolutely hate low ball asking prices, I viewed a house last year listed for 399k, when I made an offer for 399k the EA said the seller would not accept anything less that 415k, the EA said there was no other offers on the property, I made an offer at 415k, then the next day the EA said he had received an offer of 420k. I backed out and the listing stayed on Daft for a few months.
There needs to be some kind of transparency in the bidding process, I always feel the other bidders could be friends of the seller pushing up the price.
There should be some kind of rule or law that you must show proof of mortgage approval or proof of funds for cash buyers in order for the EA to accept bids.
Some new websites are showing current bids, not sure how they accept bids, and do they vet the bidders?
The whole process of estate agent’s business, from viewing to purchasing is horrendous.
Estate agents do not realize that every person they meet at a viewing might some day be a seller and if they treat them right and respectfully, they might use the EA to sell their property.
I maybe selling a property in the next few years and I would not use any of the estate agents I have met.

Everyone should have a unique ID that they need to submit mortgage approval to get. It should be much more transparent. What's to stop the sellers brother or sister bidding the asking price and creating a bidding war? Nothing.

fago

sanfranbest wrote: »

Why do Estate Agents have such a bad reputation?

I have viewed many properties in Dublin over the years and my experience with EA’s has not been great.
I absolutely hate low ball asking prices, I viewed a house last year listed for 399k, when I made an offer for 399k the EA said the seller would not accept anything less that 415k, the EA said there was no other offers on the property, I made an offer at 415k, then the next day the EA said he had received an offer of 420k. I backed out and the listing stayed on Daft for a few months.
There needs to be some kind of transparency in the bidding process, I always feel the other bidders could be friends of the seller pushing up the price.
There should be some kind of rule or law that you must show proof of mortgage approval or proof of funds for cash buyers in order for the EA to accept bids.
Some new websites are showing current bids, not sure how they accept bids, and do they vet the bidders?
The whole process of estate agent’s business, from viewing to purchasing is horrendous.
Estate agents do not realize that every person they meet at a viewing might some day be a seller and if they treat them right and respectfully, they might use the EA to sell their property.
I maybe selling a property in the next few years and I would not use any of the estate agents I have met.

This might interest you: https://www.lifeinnorway.net/buying-a-house-the-bidding-process/
Described to me previously by a colleague living there. Addresses alot of the problems we hit about transparency etc.

brisan

sanfranbest wrote: »

Why do Estate Agents have such a bad reputation?

I have viewed many properties in Dublin over the years and my experience with EA’s has not been great.
I absolutely hate low ball asking prices, I viewed a house last year listed for 399k, when I made an offer for 399k the EA said the seller would not accept anything less that 415k, the EA said there was no other offers on the property, I made an offer at 415k, then the next day the EA said he had received an offer of 420k. I backed out and the listing stayed on Daft for a few months.
There needs to be some kind of transparency in the bidding process, I always feel the other bidders could be friends of the seller pushing up the price.
There should be some kind of rule or law that you must show proof of mortgage approval or proof of funds for cash buyers in order for the EA to accept bids.
Some new websites are showing current bids, not sure how they accept bids, and do they vet the bidders?
The whole process of estate agent’s business, from viewing to purchasing is horrendous.
Estate agents do not realize that every person they meet at a viewing might some day be a seller and if they treat them right and respectfully, they might use the EA to sell their property.
I maybe selling a property in the next few years and I would not use any of the estate agents I have met.

Welcome to the Irish property market
EA,s work for the vendor and will (in most circumstances )try and achieve the highest price
they can price low to attract bids and push price up or price high and then accept offers near asking.
Only 2 things you can do
Never ever believe an estate agent if you are a buyer
Do your research on the area and similar house prices ,have a top price that you are willing to pay and walk away if it goes above that

sanfranbest

fago wrote: »

This might interest you: https://www.lifeinnorway.net/buying-a-house-the-bidding-process/
Described to me previously by a colleague living there. Addresses alot of the problems we hit about transparency etc.

Wow. would love the Norway system to be used in Ireland.

Shelga

I understand hoping, and even being reasonably sure that the property you are selling will go for above the asking price.

But it is just rude to tell people the second they step over the threshold that you won't accept a penny under €15,000 over the price advertised. People have to travel to get to viewings, and most have a strict price ceiling because there is literally only so much you can borrow. My time is just as important as yours.

Trying to buy in Dublin is already insanely stressful and is having a terrible impact on many people's mental health. I am so sick of the rubbish spouted by estate agents, and the attitude of some vendors. Just be as transparent as possible with people. This is why I like the website auctioneera, although it doesn't have many properties I'd be interested in at the moment, the straightforwardness of it is very appealing.

guyfawkes5

sanfranbest wrote: »

Wow. would love the Norway system to be used in Ireland.

Agreed. The bidding process taking place over a single evening is a bit much but the other touches like registered, verified bidders, and the seller paying for a public surveyor's report are great.

Springy Turf

Shelga wrote: »

But it is just rude to tell people the second they step over the threshold that you won't accept a penny under €15,000 over the price advertised.

In this case, if you want the house, you should still make your offer. Either the vendor is being unrealistic, and they will have to reconsider your offer or not sell, or you get outbid, which would have happened regardless of whether or not the vendor had some unadvertised "bottom price" in mind. Anyway, I have seen houses get sold for less than this alleged "bottom price".

If you did want to filter out wasting your time with these viewings, you could call the estate agent prior to viewing and ask. That's if you actually are willing to believe their answer. They might tell you the vendor wants 15k extra, but I personally wouldn't factor that information into what I am willing to offer.

brisan

Shelga wrote: »

I understand hoping, and even being reasonably sure that the property you are selling will go for above the asking price.

But it is just rude to tell people the second they step over the threshold that you won't accept a penny under €15,000 over the price advertised. People have to travel to get to viewings, and most have a strict price ceiling because there is literally only so much you can borrow. My time is just as important as yours.

Trying to buy in Dublin is already insanely stressful and is having a terrible impact on many people's mental health. I am so sick of the rubbish spouted by estate agents, and the attitude of some vendors. Just be as transparent as possible with people. This is why I like the website auctioneera, although it doesn't have many properties I'd be interested in at the moment, the straightforwardness of it is very appealing.

Auctioneera is great IF you can be assured of the veracity of the bids
What is to stop me bidding on my brothers house to push the price up
Also sales can take a long time to come through with the 15 day rule

Donald Trump

Shelga wrote: »

Just back from another viewing of a 2 bed apartment, advertised at €275k. The first thing the estate agent said to me was "the owner is actually looking for at least €290k"- why waste my time then?

Advertise it at the price you want for it. Stop playing these stupid games.

Tell the EA that you love the place and that you'll give 320 for a quick sale.
Then block their number and never contact them again.


Sauce for the goose.

Springy Turf

Donald Trump wrote: »

Tell the EA that you love the place and that you'll give 320 for a quick sale.
Then block their number and never contact them again.


Sauce for the goose.

Hah!

If only you weren’t basically guaranteed to run into the same guy again at your next viewing. We are are focused on a particular area, and we come across mostly the same 2 or 3 EAs showing every house

Glory83

Assetbacked wrote: »

I don't really see the FTB market price range too impacted in line with your post. However, a lot of high salaries and bonuses are likely to be affected which could have a sizeable impact on the more expensive houses which were already declining in price pre-covid.

For example (someone correct if wrong), €160k salary cut by 20% as well as their 7% bonus usually paid and factored into mortgage borrowing allowance also cut means over 100k less which can be borrowed. That could reduce the price of a €1m house by 10%.

Claw Hammer wrote: »

So what? The owner can look for what they like. Just because something is advertised at a price does not mean it is available at that price. it might sell for less or more. it is up to you to work out the value and the price you will pay. If you see something advertised at too low a price you can be sure that the idea is to get a bidding war going. it the price is too high it is your signal to wait in the long grass on a lowball offer.

I would agree with you although this is some kind of time wasting. But you, as a buyer, should have a rough idea about the value of the property you are viewing in terms of size, location and condition so that you can price it yourself regardless what the owner would be looking at getting.

brisan

Glory83 wrote: »

I would agree with you although this is some kind of time wasting. But you, as a buyer, should have a rough idea about the value of the property you are viewing in terms of size, location and condition so that you can price it yourself regardless what the owner would be looking at getting.

Agreed
Have a max price in your head,when it is exceeded walk away
Only problem is often 1 partner will let their heart rule their head or the macho I wont be beaten to this attitude takes over and people bid more than its worth
EA knows this and plays into it.
I have walked away a few time after multiple bids and told I would need to go higher
I always refused
I got a few phone calls later offering me the property at my last bid price.
Never ever trust an EA if you are selling and even moreso if you are buying

LJ12345

The Irish banks have a much better ‘weighted risk’ than the insane crash of 2008. The UK never lent to mortgage borrowers like Ireland did in the run up to that crash and consequently the UK market didn’t tank like Ireland, there’s a chance the Uk market might be hit more post Covid than Ireland.. Looking at the overly sensible lending criteria put in place in the last 6 years here banks won’t find themselves in the same trouble and be able to continue lending, the downward spiral will not continue, market will level and probably bounce back quickly as people get their 6 months worth of wage slips to go back to the banks with. I’m not saying there won’t be a few lucky ones who get a discount from a panicked seller but It’s different this time.

Edit: on top of this we’re already seeing a bounce due to pent up demand and the market was much stronger at the start of 2020 (pre-covid lockdown) compared to 2019

brisan wrote: »

It may not be in negative equity now,but what about in 12 months time ??

PommieBast

LJ12345 wrote: »

The UK never lent to mortgage borrowers like Ireland did in the run up to that crash and consequently the UK market didn’t tank like Ireland

There was Northern Rock (aka Northern Wreck) which thought it would be a good idea to give people 125% mortgages..

LJ12345

Northern rock was a subprime lender. Exorbitant interest was charged to offset risk. Were any of the main lenders offering 8x salary and 110% mortgages

PommieBast wrote: »

There was Northern Rock (aka Northern Wreck) which thought it would be a good idea to give people 125% mortgages..

nerrad01

LJ12345 wrote: »

The Irish banks have a much better ‘weighted risk’ than the insane crash of 2008. The UK never lent to mortgage borrowers like Ireland did in the run up to that crash and consequently the UK market didn’t tank like Ireland, there’s a chance the Uk market might be hit more post Covid than Ireland.. Looking at the overly sensible lending criteria put in place in the last 6 years here banks won’t find themselves in the same trouble and be able to continue lending, the downward spiral will not continue, market will level and probably bounce back quickly as people get their 6 months worth of wage slips to go back to the banks with. I’m not saying there won’t be a few lucky ones who get a discount from a panicked seller but It’s different this time.

Edit: on top of this we’re already seeing a bounce due to pent up demand and the market was much stronger at the start of 2020 (pre-covid lockdown) compared to 2019

the banks may be in a better position but there is a hell of a lot of other sectors in a way worse position. If second/ third waves continue to disrupt the economy it dosent matter if the banks can lend, as they are not going to lend to unemployed people.

No whether thats enough to effect the supply vs demand issue no one knows

JamesMason

LJ12345 wrote: »

.. the downward spiral will not continue, market will level and probably bounce back quickly as people get their 6 months worth of wage slips to go back to the banks with. I’m not saying there won’t be a few lucky ones who get a discount from a panicked seller but It’s different this time.

Edit: on top of this we’re already seeing a bounce due to pent up demand and the market was much stronger at the start of 2020 (pre-covid lockdown) compared to 2019

Do you actually believe that, regardless of the US, EU and Irish economies about to collapse and at high risk of further shutdowns, property prices here will not be affected? Pure delusion

cnocbui

JamesMason wrote: »

Do you actually believe that, regardless of the US, EU and Irish economies about to collapse and at high risk of further shutdowns, property prices here will not be affected? Pure delusion

Prices may be affected, but they certainly aren't yet.

TheSheriff

Funnily enough we were speaking with our mortgage adviser today to check-in and she was asking us if we had any friends looking for mortgages to pass on details....KBC bank.

Thought it a bit strange considering they seem to be pulling approvals from others.

LJ12345

You have your logic and I have mine. At the moment we have been told we won’t be going back into lockdown if there’s another spike, we’re getting closer each day to a range of covid treatments or a vaccine, you’re presuming economies are about to collapse and you’re assuming property prices will be affected - at the moment prices aren’t affected and are defying your logic... We’ll have to wait and see what happens from here.

JamesMason wrote: »

Do you actually believe that, regardless of the US, EU and Irish economies about to collapse and at high risk of further shutdowns, property prices here will not be affected? Pure delusion

Dylan94

TheSheriff wrote: »

Funnily enough we were speaking with our mortgage adviser today to check-in and she was asking us if we had any friends looking for mortgages to pass on details....KBC bank.

Thought it a bit strange considering they seem to be pulling approvals from others.

They could have issued too many exemptions and are trying to get more people without an exemption in so they don't end up in trouble with the central bank

TheSheriff

Dylan94 wrote: »

They could have issued too many exemptions and are trying to get more people without an exemption in so they don't end up in trouble with the central bank

Possibly yeah - she was extremely upbeat anyway about the whole CV-19 thing anyway; we are not getting an exemption mind-you, but she reiterated if we needed one we should be able to again in the next few months.

combat14

Everything is just rosy out there economically speaking at the moment

let's hope we are not relying too much on our neighbours next door to bounce back ...


Britain nearly went bust in March, says Bank of England

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/britain-nearly-went-bust-in-march-says-bank-of-england

Irish_peppa

brisan wrote: »

I have walked away a few time after multiple bids and told I would need to go higher
I always refused
I got a few phone calls later offering me the property at my last bid price.
Never ever trust an EA if you are selling and even moreso if you are buying

This 1000000% percent !!!!

EXACT same thing happened me twice, EA could smell how keen i was and this bidding war started. I had to pull the plug as it went over budget. Well low and behold on TWO occasions i was called a few weeks (one time a friday night about 8pm) and the other supposed bidders had on one occasion changed mind and occasion 2 couldnt get bridging loan. They were prepared to accept my last highest bid. On both occasions I said No. They had over played their hand. I think its possibly a good idea to never show that you have your heart set on a place be very non chalent.

Neamhshuntasach

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

What's the price range of the house if you don't mind? 21k over asking is crazy.



Myself and the wife had ours up before the whole mess and took it down. Looking to get going soon now again.

Mid 500s. Now it is straight walk in condition and heavily extended over the years and recently rewired and plumbed. Other than taste, there isn't a thing to do in it. I think that was the reason for the competition on it. We're only moving to go back where my wife and I are originally from.

I'll be nervous until everything is signed though. It's great getting much more than expected. But I always feel it's more risky as people may over extend beyond their means.

I'd recommend you get yours up again as soon as you can. I think there are a lot of people currently that wanted to buy a few months ago. Possibly still in a chain. And they are just eager to get their house now and are going in hard. A neighbor also has their house up again and said he will go sale agreed this week over asking. Didn't get into figures but his was up for high 400s as was more dated.

GocRh

Neamhshuntasach wrote: »

Mid 500s.

4% over asking on a desirable property combined with pent up demand after a long lockdown seems reasonable.
I'm on the market (buying) and have been closely monitoring agreed sales in a few areas (D5, D3, Dun Laoghaire), up until February 5 to 10% over asking was the norm for 2 bed apartments around 400k.

Springy Turf

GocRh wrote: »

4% over asking on a desirable property combined with pent up demand after a long lockdown seems reasonable.
I'm on the market (buying) and have been closely monitoring agreed sales in a few areas (D5, D3, Dun Laoghaire), up until February 5 to 10% over asking was the norm for 2 bed apartments around 400k.

In Feb a property I was looking at went from 420 to 480