Property Market 2020

Cal4567

The tax to try prevent property owners from hoarding land was only collected by 1 in 8 councils last year

https://www.thejournal.ie/vacant-site-levy-5104669-May2020/


The report showed only four of the country’s 31 local authorities – Dublin City, Kilkenny, Waterford and Wicklow – had made any collection of the levy last year, while more than a quarter of council had no active register of vacant sites.

I do really struggle to appreciate how local authorities can be effective stakeholders in the general property market. They complain about not being able to demonstrate local management and accountability but when are given the opportunity to do so, fail miserably. I think I'd much prefer my tax dollars to be used by central government with a country wide approach, we are really quite a small country.

JimmyVik

cnocbui wrote: »

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/tech/twitter-work-from-home-forever/index.html

All it will take for a really big change would be for governments to grow a pair and increase payroll type taxes for workers in offices in major cities and reduce or eliminate such taxes for working from home.

Instead of the constant pressure to spend more and more public money on improving infrastructure in cities for the near exclusive benefit of corporations, they should provide incentive for the corporations to decentralise and get out of cities so they don't have to basically subsidise the freeloaders. They pay stuff all tax and expect governments to spend a huge proportion of public revenues to their near exclusive benefit.

Companies are already under pressure to pay more for living in Dublin

Sunny Disposition

Cal4567 wrote: »

The tax to try prevent property owners from hoarding land was only collected by 1 in 8 councils last year

https://www.thejournal.ie/vacant-site-levy-5104669-May2020/


The report showed only four of the country’s 31 local authorities – Dublin City, Kilkenny, Waterford and Wicklow – had made any collection of the levy last year, while more than a quarter of council had no active register of vacant sites.

I do really struggle to appreciate how local authorities can be effective stakeholders in the general property market. They complain about not being able to demonstrate local management and accountability but when are given the opportunity to do so, fail miserably. I think I'd much prefer my tax dollars to be used by central government with a country wide approach, we are really quite a small country.

Many Councils, including my own one, put up the household tax. It is a disgrace, and its actually quite insightful as to how business gets treated here. Developers are seen as more important than the ordinary mass of people.

Padre_Pio

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Same here. I'm not fully set up for a proper home office as IKEA still closed but I will soon. But I don't see myself spending 8 hours per day for the next few years working form my box room. Hopefully WFH will become an option available to everyone without being the only option available

I like WFH, but I would probably go into work one or two days a week for the social aspect. 5 days a week is unnecessary for me.

Regarding space, I'm lucky to have a spare room, but people are working from bedrooms and kitchens at the moment.
If I could buy shares in SteelTech I would, they'll be doing a massive trade when home offices take off.
Employers have a responsibility to provide equipment to home workers, ergonomic desk, chair etc, so those WFH should be well provided for.

I'm looking at houses >1 hour commute if I'm only in work a day or two a week.

JimmyVik wrote: »

Companies are already under pressure to pay more for living in Dublin

Interesting point. Dublin workers get paid Dublin wages. I employers promote WFH will they lower wages?

EDIT: looks like Zuck already answered this: https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-facebook-will-allow-half-its-staff-to-work-from-home-permanently-but-it-will-come-at-a-cost-11992490

Cyrus

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Genuine question, how are people liking Working From Home?
I've been doing it since January and I'm expected to be on it until December as the company i work for now specifically hired me as a home based associate.
Honestly I miss all things I used to hate when being at the office, the daily penny chats, the background chatter, the coffee machines, the canteen routine, etc.. This combined with lock down is making me extremely bored
If there is life after Covid I'm probably going to go for an office based job again next year

i dislike it being honest

the family side of it is good, the work side not so much, be glad to get back into the office. very hard bond a team remotely.

Mic 1972

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I like WFH, but I would probably go into work one or two days a week for the social aspect. 5 days a week is unnecessary for me.

Regarding space, I'm lucky to have a spare room, but people are working from bedrooms and kitchens at the moment.
If I could buy shares in SteelTech I would, they'll be doing a massive trade when home offices take off.
Employers have a responsibility to provide equipment to home workers, ergonomic desk, chair etc, so those WFH should be well provided for.

Are they?
Most companies provide a laptop, keyboard and mouse, the rest is up to you
Apple will pay the phone bill and will check if your chair and desk meet ergonomic standards, the company i work for at the moment didn't ask any question about my work station

Captainsatnav

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Are they?
Most companies provide a laptop, keyboard and mouse, the rest is up to you
Apple will pay the phone bill and will check if your chair and desk meet ergonomic standards, the company i work for at the moment didn't ask any question about my work station

Yeah Employers have a duty of care to provide a 'safe place of work' under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work act. Doesn't say what exactly they need to do / provide but they're expected to act reasonably...therefore a desk, decent chair, head set and screen may not be beyond the Pale.

awec

Captainsatnav wrote: »

Yeah Employers have a duty of care to provide a 'safe place of work' under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work act. Doesn't say what exactly they need to do / provide but they're expected to act reasonably...therefore a desk, decent chair, head set and screen may not be beyond the Pale.

But you're not at work, you're at home.

It's a bit murky here.

Captainsatnav

awec wrote: »

But you're not at work, you're at home.

It's a bit murky here.

It's not murky at all though. Your place of work is where you work. This is established anyway, employers need to ensure if you're wfh then you're able to so so safely.

JimmyVik

Captainsatnav wrote: »

It's not murky at all though. Your place of work is where you work. This is established anyway, employers need to ensure if you're wfh then you're able to so so safely.

If that becomes a problem then people will just end up being contractors.
REsponsible for your own workplace then.

Blueshoe

How does insurance work then. As in if you have an accident in the office like slip on the stairs and break your leg you are covered.

What happens if you are working from home and have the same accident.

What's the story there?

awec

Captainsatnav wrote: »

It's not murky at all though. Your place of work is where you work. This is established anyway, employers need to ensure if you're wfh then you're able to so so safely.

Can employers dictate what furniture you put in your own home, and where you put it?

Mic 1972

awec wrote: »

But you're not at work, you're at home.

It's a bit murky here.

I won't name the company I work for but al they provided was a laptop, keyboard and mouse
I'm providing my own desk, chair, headset and microphone and I pay my own phone bill

Mic 1972

awec wrote: »

Can employers dictate what furniture you put in your own home, and where you put it?

Apple will send people to your house to asses your workstation with regards to ergonomic requirements, however they won't provide it

Tallback

Captainsatnav wrote: »

It's not murky at all though. Your place of work is where you work. This is established anyway, employers need to ensure if you're wfh then you're able to so so safely.

Sounds like a quick way to quash the work from home momentum. Employers will come to the conclusion that it is less risky and less hassle to get everyone to troop into an office.

Captainsatnav

awec wrote: »

Can employers dictate what furniture you put in your own home, and where you put it?

no, you're being disingenuous.

Diarmuid

cnocbui wrote: »

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/tech/twitter-work-from-home-forever/index.html

All it will take for a really big change would be for governments to grow a pair and increase payroll type taxes for workers in offices in major cities and reduce or eliminate such taxes for working from home.

Instead of the constant pressure to spend more and more public money on improving infrastructure in cities for the near exclusive benefit of corporations, they should provide incentive for the corporations to decentralise and get out of cities so they don't have to basically subsidise the freeloaders. They pay stuff all tax and expect governments to spend a huge proportion of public revenues to their near exclusive benefit.

I think you are conflating a number of things here

1. The idea that WFH means everyone moves to the country, I want to WFH but live in a city and I'm not on my own
2. That it costs more to provide services in a centralized high density location. I suspect the opposite is true. The reality is that taxes would have to increase if everyone wanted to live in their one off house in the country while receiving the same public services they left behind in the city
3. That public services are being provided for the benefit of companies as opposed to the people who live there.

Padre_Pio

Cyrus wrote: »

i dislike it being honest

the family side of it is good, the work side not so much, be glad to get back into the office. very hard bond a team remotely.

I really think the future is partial WFH. You may have your team meetings scheduled in the office on Mondays, then remote work for the rest of the week.

Another team may have their meetings Tuesdays and so on.

Result is your office space, desks, canteen is a fraction of the size.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I won't name the company I work for but al they provided was a laptop, keyboard and mouse
I'm providing my own desk, chair, headset and microphone and I pay my own phone bill

Here's the HSA guidelines: https://www.hsa.ie/eng/supports_for_business/faq%E2%80%99s_in_relation_to_home-working_on_a_temporary_basis_covid-19_/

Employers need to consult with their employees to assure themselves:

that the employee is aware of any specific risks regarding working from home,
that the work activity and the temporary workspace are suitable,
that they provide suitable equipment to enable the work to be done, and
that there is a pre-arranged means of contact.

1. What are the key duties of employers under the Safety, Health and Welfare at Work Act?
Employers have specific duties to ensure the safety, health and welfare at work of all employees. These duties include the employee’s workspace where employees are required to work from home.

Key duties that apply to the work activity and workspace include:

managing and conducting all work activities to ensure, as far as reasonably practicable, the safety, health and welfare of employees,
providing safe systems of work that are planned, organised, and maintained,
assessing risks and implementing appropriate control measures,
providing safe equipment including personal protective equipment, where necessary,
providing information, instruction, training and supervision regarding safety and health to employees, and
having plans in place for emergencies.

It's very general, but there is no onus on the employee to provide a suitable workspace.

BluePlanet

cnocbui wrote: »

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/05/12/tech/twitter-work-from-home-forever/index.html

All it will take for a really big change would be for governments to grow a pair and increase payroll type taxes for workers in offices in major cities and reduce or eliminate such taxes for working from home.

Instead of the constant pressure to spend more and more public money on improving infrastructure in cities for the near exclusive benefit of corporations, they should provide incentive for the corporations to decentralise and get out of cities so they don't have to basically subsidise the freeloaders. They pay stuff all tax and expect governments to spend a huge proportion of public revenues to their near exclusive benefit.

Population density is efficient.
Low density is wasteful.

Imagine a postman delivering letters.
How much energy and time they must consume to deliver letters to 1000 households in the country, compared to a high density city.

1percent

what_traffic wrote: »

Looks reasonable enough to me, Central Banks Worldwide will have to inflate there way out of this.
Not sure on the local projections around housing, that looks like a harder ideology to break down if the FG'rs are in next Gov I'd say.

I dont think the not building is ideological in the screw the poor sence, but more in the sence that they would be competing with the private market for labour resources therefore driving up the price. bad value for money and bad for the market as a whole.
In saying that in my little make believe future I could see FG contracting all these building projects to developers and not employ the contractors directly through the state to the absolute ire of SF and the ABFFG crowed.

Cyrus

these would have been a hard sell a few months back, very hard to see them shifting at over 1m a piece. Location is ok, site is cramped though, and even though the houses are big, the rooms look small, im guessing could be 4 floors, size of gardens will put a family off and 4 floors wont entice local downsizers

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/st-paul-s-square-adelaide-road-glenageary-dublin/4407651

GreeBo

smurgen wrote: »

The men with the money e.g Facebook disagree. I'm sure you probably thought Facebook was a fad also. Meanwhile their market cap is around 600 billion.

What percentage of facebook employees were WFH 100% of the time in January?

Whats changed? Did the people in Facebook not know about the technology that has existed for a decade?

Pivot Eoin

Cyrus wrote: »

these would have been a hard sell a few months back, very hard to see them shifting at over 1m a piece. Location is ok, site is cramped though, and even though the houses are big, the rooms look small, im guessing could be 4 floors, size of gardens will put a family off and 4 floors wont entice local downsizers

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/st-paul-s-square-adelaide-road-glenageary-dublin/4407651

They probably will tbh.

I enquired about a 3Bed new build near there recently and it was 895k.

In terms of the area, A family member sold a 5 Bed near to there recently around the €1m mark... it took them about 4 years to complete the sale. Now the house needed a bit of TLC.

Claw Hammer

Cyrus wrote: »

these would have been a hard sell a few months back, very hard to see them shifting at over 1m a piece. Location is ok, site is cramped though, and even though the houses are big, the rooms look small, im guessing could be 4 floors, size of gardens will put a family off and 4 floors wont entice local downsizers

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/st-paul-s-square-adelaide-road-glenageary-dublin/4407651

There is no need for a garden in that location unless there are very small children involved. Working professional couples with teenage and up children would be the target market.

Mic 1972

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Here's the HSA guidelines: https://www.hsa.ie/eng/supports_for_business/faq%E2%80%99s_in_relation_to_home-working_on_a_temporary_basis_covid-19_/

I guess it's different when you are hired outside of the Covid emergency and you clear with the employer that you have an office space in the house

Padre_Pio

GreeBo wrote: »

What percentage of facebook employees were WFH 100% of the time in January?

Whats changed? Did the people in Facebook not know about the technology that has existed for a decade?

It's a hard sell to pivot your business from full time office to full time home.

A lot of peoples perceptions about work and spending have been knocked by the lockdown and this is the tip of the iceberg.

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I guess it's different when you are hired outside of the Covid emergency and you clear with the employer that you have an office space in the house

Yep, if your employer is pushing WFH they should ensure you're set up.

If you're pushing WFH and you employer has already paid for a desk and office space, it's a hard sell to prove you're more productive.

Claw Hammer

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I guess it's different when you are hired outside of the Covid emergency and you clear with the employer that you have an office space in the house

The employer is always responsible for seeing that you have a safe place of work with a safety statement and workstation analysis. Covid or not.

Mic 1972

Claw Hammer wrote: »

There is no need for a garden in that location unless there are very small children involved. Working professional couples with teenage and up children would be the target market.

for a 5 bed house you dont want to limit your potential buyers to those with teenage kids, the area is very nice I used to live in Spencer Villas right across from that. A family house will benefit greatly from a back garden in any location

Mic 1972

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The employer is always responsible for seeing that you have a safe place of work with a safety statement and workstation analysis. Covid or not.

They haven't done it but I've literally just started, I'm curious to see how they go about it

Claw Hammer

Mic 1972 wrote: »

for a 5 bed house you dont want to limit your potential buyers to those with teenage kids, the area is very nice I used to live in Spencer Villas right across from that. A family house will benefit greatly from a back garden in any location

Some people don't want the hassle of a big garden. A house is not going to please every demographic. There are professional couple who work long hours who want to spend their weekends engaged in golf or sailing or some other time consuming hobby and don't want a garden.