Have you heard of BPD/What do you know of it?

Wibbs

Gynoid wrote: »

Gonna sound like a horrid bitch, but it is meant as positive help - it is not good to attach labels to yourself if it can be at all helped. There are too many diverse labels, they can be narcissistic and are a therapists dream. It creates learned helplessness, victim status, and in fact reinforces the suffering identity day in day out. Drop the identification with this disorder, or you will use it as an excuse and a crutch to your dying day and will thus severely limit your potential for freedom and happiness.

I'd have a lot of agreement with this.

Another aspect which IMHO doesn't get brought into this is the age of a person and more, the stage of life they're at. There are few enough among us who weren't a little, even a lot daft in our adolescent years. I had my moments, some cringe, some daft. In some for whatever different reasons this natural development can stall and these years can extend beyond the teens well into the twenties, where it starts to look like a pathology(and may even turn into one). There are behaviours you'd find normal, expected, though mildly "crazy" to an adult in a fourteen year old that would be pretty out of the norm in a twenty four year old.

Of all the people I knew in my teens most would have come across as nuts if they acted like that in their twenties or thirties. I knew few enough young women at 16 that didn't exhibit a touch of "BPD" traits and few enough young men of the same age that weren't mildly irresponsible sometimes to the point of dangerous. I've certainly known enough men and women who would likely have been diagnosed with all sorts of conditions at 20, even 25, that they "grew out of" later on and without any external clinical help. About the "craziest" young woman I knew back then, who would have ticked a fair few BPD boxes is now in her forties one of the most stable and balanced human beings I can think of. Something clicked in her in her twenties and off she went.

Now if you're in your thirties and still channelling the teenage you then look for help alright. Though from what I've gathered down the years therapists and therapies can be a very mixed bunch, from fantastic to damn near negligent to the point of danger.

Gynoid

Gynoid wrote: »

Gonna sound like a horrid bitch, but it is meant as positive help - it is not good to attach labels to yourself if it can be at all helped. There are too many diverse labels, they can be narcissistic and are a therapists dream.

You are spot on Gynoid. I do disagree with the above however. As someone who has been in therapy I assure you that for many therapists labels are discouraged. In fact it's your view or similar which would be more likely to be held.

I think I have the opposite of this!
My friend says I'm very like her autistic son, & I am I suppose.
But I'm not looking to diagnose myself with anything, no need, I am who I am & that's me.
Doesn't matter about labels

GeetarPick

Gynoid wrote: »

Gonna sound like a horrid bitch, but it is meant as positive help - it is not good to attach labels to yourself if it can be at all helped. There are too many diverse labels, they can be narcissistic and are a therapists dream. It creates learned helplessness, victim status, and in fact reinforces the suffering identity day in day out. Drop the identification with this disorder, or you will use it as an excuse and a crutch to your dying day and will thus severely limit your potential for freedom and happiness.

This disorder is likely due to childhood neglect or abuse, it is a trauma reaction. I had a different trauma reaction, so called PTSD, it was very severe due to assault, and absolutely fcuked me for a while. The best way I found was to not allow the mental or emotional groove to be deepened again and again. Of course it is hard work, not saying otherwise BUT! Dont make a story for yourself out of bad things, begin to be acutely cognitively aware and responsible, disciplined even, so that you can nip negative or destructive thought processes in the bud. Move away completely from labeling yourself, be creative.

Look for good things in life, flow activities, absorption outside yourself, joy, movement, beauty, simple pleasures - maximise those to make them potent. Shun drama, addiction to sorrow. Your crappy past will always be part of you but it can become a much smaller part of the narrative of a great big adventurous life.

This doesn't sound horrible it's just ill informed and uneducated (nothing personal). Romantic sounding even.

When you have to leave the house and you have a horrid sensation at the pit of your stomach for absolutely no reason, no amount of imagination into how great life could be can negate that feeling. It really is impossible for me to describe.

I hate being told to go on adventures or that I am addicted to drama etc. Its a load of patronising bollocks.

Gynoid

GeetarPick wrote: »

This doesn't sound horrible it's just ill informed and uneducated (nothing personal). Romantic sounding even.

When you have to leave the house and you have a horrid sensation at the pit of your stomach for absolutely no reason, no amount of imagination into how great life could be can negate that feeling. It really is impossible for me to describe.

I hate being told to go on adventures or that I am addicted to drama etc. Its a load of patronising bollocks.

I can assure you it is not. You do not have to try describe how bad it is, I know it intimately. I stand by what I wrote. Grabbing the bulls horns is what works.

Scuid Mhór

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno about high level FD, but I'll give it a go(I went out with another but she was undiagnosed, though fitted the profile to a tee. Almost identical trajectories). *generalisation alert* women(tm) tend to be more obviously emotional and up and down in relationships, well imagine a normal level amped up by the power from an atomic reactor.

In the early stages it's pretty good to great, almost overwhelming in the attention you get. You're carpet bombed with passion and the sex is off the charts. It's quite "addictive" in a way and in the rearview mirror of hindsight can look planned to be, to get you "hooked" as it were. And it does. If you were an inexperienced guy you'd be screwed I'd imagine as she'd feel like the Perfect Girlfriend. I'd been around the block and it fooled me for a time. It's not planned as such, more the condition I'd imagine, the need to get themselves hooked on the emotionals as that seems to be the drug involved.

Then with time - and not so long in from my recall, a few months - the emotionals begin to get more obviously negative, more obviously manipulative in keeping the emotionals tap open for the hit they needed. It was a rare day where something, some issue wasn't in play, lurching from extremes of positive to negative. The need for attention was a constant and the natural reaction, or mine anyway, was to feel like I should supply it. It was never enough and could never be enough. Actually at the tail end of one I largely switched off and funny enough that calmed things and her right down. I wasn't playing the game. I can see how someone with this condition could end up with a cold bastard, or the other extreme of someone who would keep supplying the emotional hits to their personal detriment.

Emotionally manipulative would be my biggest takeaway. Though not in a I dunno psychopath type way. It's not so much to their advantage overall. Though major headmelt sums it up and no way would I stick around if I even got the sniff of that again. Put it this way, after those two - and this is donkey's years ago - I'd still be so sensitive to it that even perfectly normal women's normal emotional stuff gets my hackles up to a degree. If I had a friend involved with someone with this - and I have. One guy's life nearly went around the U bend over it - I'd tell them to run as far and as fast away as possible. Which itself can be bloody difficult as the emotionally manipulative stuff can be focussed ever harder on what weaknesses they perceive in you if they think you're moving away.

My 2cents anyway FD.

Great post. I narrowly avoided getting seriously romantically involved with someone who I suspect has BDP - her peculiar behaviour in the following months was off the charts. It was only in retrospect - when I learned about BPD - that I realised she suffers from it. It's so strange reading about BPD and then thinking of all the crazy things I watched this girl do over the course of a year, as if I'm just ticking boxes and everything makes total sense.

GeetarPick

GeetarPick wrote: »

This doesn't sound horrible it's just ill informed and uneducated (nothing personal). Romantic sounding even.

When you have to leave the house and you have a horrid sensation at the pit of your stomach for absolutely no reason, no amount of imagination into how great life could be can negate that feeling. It really is impossible for me to describe.

I hate being told to go on adventures or that I am addicted to drama etc. Its a load of patronising bollocks.

I can understand how you feel this way. My dark days are behind me but I don't know what's around the corner. I make a choice everyday to live a life that is ok, not always easy, but it's ok. Its mine. The feeling you describe won't go away with a simple change of mind but you can be supported and you can try. You are more than a label, more than a (and I hate this term) 'people like us'. You are an individual with your own unique set of circumstances and experiences.

Lillyfae

Larbre34 wrote: »

Yeah its called the evolutionary function of 'no one should have to endure such environments as they are very damaging to people'

And its not really BPD is it? Thats just the symptoms of psychological damage and probably psychiatric illness caused by said environment.

Labels for these things are just red herrings and give comfort to those who caused the damage. They may have suffered the same environment cyclically, but the point still stands.

Its not their personality that has a disorder, they have a mental illness brought on by external factors amounting to mental torture and abuse.

100% this. For example, if a child is smacked constantly they are going to flinch when a hand is raised to them.

I'm in the process of getting a diagnosis at the moment. BPD has been mentioned but my latest intake was leaning more towards PTSD- in fact from what I've read my opinion is that BPD can be like a more developed version of PTSD- just my opinion, mind.

My experience is I was prone to depression up until about 18 months ago when a series of stressful/ traumatic events just built up and pushed me over the edge. My upbringing and family situation would have been quite traumatic and it was never dealt with in a therapeutic setting, I just kept going and going, ticking all the boxes I thought I needed to tick until the rising panic just got to me.

All I can do is actively pursue whatever it is I need to do to deal with everything in a positive way. While I'm waiting for treatment I'm trying to make sure I'm not drinking too much, getting enough exercise and treating myself to (as regular as possible) massages. It's been on pause for the last couple of months but it's constant ups and downs. My partner is supportive but he obviously struggles to understand and read me when I'm in an episode. The best thing I can do in the moment is breathe, find somewhere away from everyone and stay there until I come out of it. Easier said than done when an episode can be 10 minutes or 10 days.

It's hard because some days I struggle to remember who I was before all of this, and I worry about the time when my child will start to understand and think that this is just Mama. I hate that it affects my partner so much and worry that if I don't get treatment soon it will bring us to a point of no return. I understand, but it still hurts to hear descriptions here of relationships with people with BPD. I feel guilty, even though I didn't ask for this and I'm doing everything in my power to stop it.

jiltloop

Wibbs wrote: »

I dunno about high level FD, but I'll give it a go(I went out with another but she was undiagnosed, though fitted the profile to a tee. Almost identical trajectories). *generalisation alert* women(tm) tend to be more obviously emotional and up and down in relationships, well imagine a normal level amped up by the power from an atomic reactor.

In the early stages it's pretty good to great, almost overwhelming in the attention you get. You're carpet bombed with passion and the sex is off the charts. It's quite "addictive" in a way and in the rearview mirror of hindsight can look planned to be, to get you "hooked" as it were. And it does. If you were an inexperienced guy you'd be screwed I'd imagine as she'd feel like the Perfect Girlfriend. I'd been around the block and it fooled me for a time. It's not planned as such, more the condition I'd imagine, the need to get themselves hooked on the emotionals as that seems to be the drug involved.

Then with time - and not so long in from my recall, a few months - the emotionals begin to get more obviously negative, more obviously manipulative in keeping the emotionals tap open for the hit they needed. It was a rare day where something, some issue wasn't in play, lurching from extremes of positive to negative. The need for attention was a constant and the natural reaction, or mine anyway, was to feel like I should supply it. It was never enough and could never be enough. Actually at the tail end of one I largely switched off and funny enough that calmed things and her right down. I wasn't playing the game. I can see how someone with this condition could end up with a cold bastard, or the other extreme of someone who would keep supplying the emotional hits to their personal detriment.

Emotionally manipulative would be my biggest takeaway. Though not in a I dunno psychopath type way. It's not so much to their advantage overall. Though major headmelt sums it up and no way would I stick around if I even got the sniff of that again. Put it this way, after those two - and this is donkey's years ago - I'd still be so sensitive to it that even perfectly normal women's normal emotional stuff gets my hackles up to a degree. If I had a friend involved with someone with this - and I have. One guy's life nearly went around the U bend over it - I'd tell them to run as far and as fast away as possible. Which itself can be bloody difficult as the emotionally manipulative stuff can be focussed ever harder on what weaknesses they perceive in you if they think you're moving away.

My 2cents anyway FD.

I unfortunately met a girl with BPD when I was a relatively young and naïve guy. Hadn't much experience with relationships and had pretty low self esteem at the time so I was quite vulnerable.

Your post resonates perfectly with a lot of what I experienced, unfortunately for me she ended up pregnant and so I am forever bound to her via the relationship with my son. It's not a nice environment for my son to grow up in at times and I stayed with his mother for about 6 years in total and really tried to make it work but it was impossible especially since there was no love there to form the foundation of a chance at maintaining the partnership.

I made the very difficult decision to break up and move out, for my own sanity and because I realised that my son needed me as a happy grounded person in his life even if the sacrifice was not living with him and seeing him every day. He's going in to secondary school next year and is an amazing kid who thankfully exhibits none of his mother's wild personality traits and I do think this in partially down to the regular respite and grounding he gets when he has his time with me.

Thankfully she is now with another guy who seems really decent and there for the long haul, although I have to deal with and see her crazy behaviour frequently I can see that her husband is a calming influence in the house.

I feel very sorry for her, it's not a nice condition to have and it definitely stems from her relationship with her mother and from her being severely bullied in school around the age of 12/13. But there is no doubting the permanent and destructive impact she has had on my life and now I have a constant focus of dealing with her personality disorder whenever I have to interact with her and more importantly trying to shield my son from it and be the role model who can counteract any damage she might do to his personal development.

Sorry for the long rant! :pac:

Foweva Awone

I used to have extreme BPD and everything that goes with it - addiction, self-harm, unstable relationships, extreme impulsivity, dissociation, suicide attempts, etc. I say "used to" because - while I still have the diagnosis - it's become a lot more manageable with the right treatment. I'm stable about 2 years now.

I see some people exhibit horrible behaviours and, when challenged, blame the BPD and act completely helpless and take no responsibility for their behaviours. I don't do this. The diagnosis allows me to recognise my unhealthy behaviours for what they are and choose not to engage in them.

For anyone suffering, I'd recommend DBT, more DBT and yet more DBT on top of that! St Patricks Hospital run some very good programs (Radical Openness DBT, and Living Through Distress, among others) which can be done as an out-patient or in-patient. If that's not an option, there are books out there that'll teach you the skills.

It's a crappy diagnosis but my advice is not to wallow in it, take responsibility for yourself and your behaviours. And be kind to yourself - you're the best friend you'll ever have in this world. Respect yourself.

Alecto

I've had many years of therapy, starting at the age of fifteen when I spent a lot of time trying to kill myself, up to the age of 18, more therapy at 19 and again when I was 21, more therapy again at the age of 26 to 29, and again from 30 to 31. I've tried everything, I've tried mindfulness, I've tried exercise, I've tried working, I've tried losing weight, I've tried shutting out the world, I've tried to embrace it. I've always engaged in therapy and tried my best. I've had periods of stability, years of relative quiet, I even managed to get a first class honours degree. But BPD continues to come back and bite me in the arse, to send me down a hole I don't want to go down, that I've been down before and I need to try to climb out of again. I know it's down to me to do that and that no one else can, but all of the talk of the beauty of the world is not going to help. At some point you wonder what is the point of picking yourself up again and maybe you should just stay where you are. I didn't ask to have this condition and it developed due to my childhood and yet I know I'm the one who has to keep digging myself out of it. On top of having CF too, I've never blamed my parents for giving me a genetic disease but I sure as hell blame them for their contribution to BPD.

I also think there can be a difference between people who are self-aware with BPD and those who aren't. Those who lack self-awareness and never going to take responsibility for their actions. I know when I get black out drunk and I **** up that I did that, it was on me, it was my choice and my actions hurt someone else or myself. Having the label of BPD just helps me to understand what led me to that situation in the first place and to try and work on that. I don't want to hide behind it or use it as an excuse, I just needed an explanation for my bewildering (to others and sometimes to myself) behaviour. I've never been deliberately manipulative, at least I don't think I'm that kind of person. Sometimes people with BPD are labelled this way because they'll do anything to try to avoid the pain they are dealing with and it can seem like emotional blackmail. I think people with BPD are like the beaten and abused animal that lashes out when there isn't actually a threat there anymore but they don't realise it, because the world feels like a threatening place to them as that was their reality as a child.

Reviews and Books Galore

Wibbs wrote: »

I've known a few down the years, all women*, some diagnosed, some not, but would serve well as clinical definitions of BPD. One worked very hard on it throughout her twenties and certainly seemed to come out of it to a great degree. She's like a different person The others not so much. Age seems to dull its edges though. I was in a relationship with one and never again, no debate on that. The very definition of a headmelt.




*it seems to be much more a female condition, or maybe it's about equal between men and women, but men present different symptoms? I've certainly known enough men with compulsive and emotionally damaging behaviour. Though men tend to be more about harming others than obvious self harm. The cutting aspect is interesting. As a symptom of mental illness it has increased massively over the last couple of decades. It was a rare thing to present with before the 80's and 90's.

Wonder is it a contagion factor? If it's portrayed in movies as a way to regulate emotions, then it could be a 'symptom' as it's part of the parcel so to speak. In the same way a bullet wound causes someone to fall down as it is so often seen in movies, even though there may not be a biological reason.

Trigger Happy

I never really knew what bpd was before reading this thread. A lot of it rings true with a couple of women I know.
One I dated and one just friend. Tortured souls.
They did a lot of damage to themselves and hurt to those around them but when things were good they are the best people in the world to know.

Some people will spend their whole lives in and out of therapy Alecto. That is how it is. Life goes on for a while and then it's back down in to the depths. The hope is that the periods of ok get longer and that you can manage how you feel in a healthy way. Your parents were responsible for you and it was up to them to provide for your needs. Blaming them however is only hurting you.
I know a thing or two about tough times and how tiring it can be to keep going. You are not alone in that.

Weekly psychotherapy right now would be of huge benefit to you. There are lots of therapists out there who will be experienced on working with early developmental trauma. A quick look on IAHIP website should bring up some. I know there is a clinical psychologist currently in Cork attached to the HSE who works specifically with early trauma. Shine is his surname but I can't remember his first.

iamstop

Deleted User wrote: »

Thought this was going to be about some korean boy band..

I thought it was going to be about KRS One and Scott La Rock. (BDP)

MrAbyss

Alecto wrote: »

Well BPD is partially caused by environmental factors, so something in the child's upbringing. So yeah I'd say she fecked off because she's impulsive as part of BPD but also because she was sick of their shyte

there is a very interesting theory that the baby girl was 'replaced' by another baby the mother had and in the infant's mind the mother had 'abandoned' them when the little brother or sister came along. This is the root cause of the BPDs abandonment issues.


BPDs are all about terror of being abandoned and they are nearly exclusively women. Fascinating topic.

MrAbyss

It is also hard hard to feel sorry for them as most of the false rape and sexual assaults are by BPD women as a result of the man having had enough and left them or they fell in love on the first date and there was no second date..

It's a crazy and dangerous condition and it is very real.

Alecto

BPD is actually diagnosed in men a lot too but I think they can tend to represent differently (more aggressive sometimes) and so they maybe aren't diagnosed as often but still have it. Unfortunately because it's seen as some sort of hysterical woman on her period syndrome you can see how a man would not want that label, not that it's much fun having that label as a woman either My boyfriend actually has BPD too and it is a rollercoaster for the two of us, as you can imagine. A very intense relationship, very loving, and there is a huge amount of understanding of each other's issues, but also a lot of insecurity and worries and one setting the other off. Overall though we try to make it work and I love him very much.

Alecto

MrAbyss wrote: »

It is also hard hard to feel sorry for them as most of the false rape and sexual assaults are by BPD women as a result of the man having had enough and left them or they fell in love on the first date and there was no second date..

It's a crazy and dangerous condition and it is very real.

I've been raped and I couldn't face going to the gardai about it, I wouldn't dream of falsely accusing someone. I'd be upset if I liked someone and they didn't want to go on another date but I'd be the one at home eating ice cream and crying to love songs!

BPD has a reputation as some sort of Fatal Attraction dangerous stalking woman who will boil your rabbit or kidnap you (cathy bates - misery) but most people with BPD just end up torturing themselves.

Gynoid

Study up on the amygdala. Fascinating little cluster. Some traumatic experiences get stuck there in the emotionally reactive part of the brain and do not get properly processed forward to the frontal cortex which is where we reason. A lot of dealing with amygdala sensations and reactions is letting them be and not reacting. It takes training. Patience. Being stoic. And yes, appreciating the simple beauty and joy in life.
It can be done.
Edit amygdalae, theres a pair of them

MrAbyss

MrAbyss wrote: »

there is a very interesting theory that the baby girl was 'replaced' by another baby the mother had and in the infant's mind the mother had 'abandoned' them when the little brother or sister came along. This is the root cause of the BPDs abandonment issues.


BPDs are all about terror of being abandoned and they are nearly exclusively women. Fascinating topic.

I dunno..I have seen/see a mother that seems to have almost turned on a child, after having more.. it's absolutely heartbreaking to watch, when you can't do much about it.. the narcissistic parent phenomenon is very real, and I would imagine is at the root of a lot of these issues..

MrAbyss

Alecto wrote: »

I've been raped and I couldn't face going to the gardai about it, I wouldn't dream of falsely accusing someone. I'd be upset if I liked someone and they didn't want to go on another date but I'd be the one at home eating ice cream and crying to love songs!

BPD has a reputation as some sort of Fatal Attraction dangerous stalking woman who will boil your rabbit or kidnap you (cathy bates - misery) but most people with BPD just end up torturing themselves.

I am sorry about what happened to you - but the fact remains that most false cases of rape are BPD women. Regardless of if most do not do this.

MrAbyss

Gynoid wrote: »

Study up on the amygdala.

Gearbox of the brain. BPDs go from 1-5 and skip all the gears in between.

MrAbyss

it has got to the stage that if I even suspect a woman has BPD I will not have any kind of relationship with her . They are just too dangerous, toxic and unhinged. It's very sad for people with BPD of course, but I consider staying away from Borderlines as I would a person with typhoid coughing around me. It is not hate. Quarantine.

MrAbyss

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am sorry about what happened to you - but the fact remains that most false cases of rape are BPD women. Regardless of if most do not do this.

Do you have evidence of this?

Just to provide a bit of balance against how difficult it is to have a relationship with a person who has BPD. One of the closest people in my life has a diagnosis. She's like a sister to me. I don't see her as having a personality disorder I see a person who struggles. She has a huge capacity for empathy and understanding of other people. The person she hurts is herself.

GeetarPick

MrAbyss wrote: »

it has got to the stage that if I even suspect a woman has BPD I will not have any kind of relationship with her . They are just too dangerous, toxic and unhinged. It's very sad for people with BPD of course, but I consider staying away from Borderlines as I would a person with typhoid coughing around me. It is not hate. Quarantine.

I consider people with judgemental attitudes like this in the same vein.

Lillyfae

For all those talking about “undiagnosed”, how do you know you have it without a diagnosis?

GeetarPick

Lillyfae wrote: »

For all those talking about “undiagnosed”, how do you know you have it without a diagnosis?

Trust me I know .

Foweva Awone

MrAbyss wrote: »

I am sorry about what happened to you - but the fact remains that most false cases of rape are BPD women. Regardless of if most do not do this.

I don't know if this is true, but I do know that many BPD women (including myself) are survivors of childhood sexual abuse. False rape claims as an adult may be the result of misinterpreting a situation due to past trauma - rather than coming from any maliciousness on the woman's part.

I know that doesn't make it in any way okay, it's just that so many people (even some mental health professionals) view BPD sufferers as pure evil, poisonous people. There is so much stigma attached to it. Not every sufferer displays all of the symptoms, in fact I believe you only need to hit 5 of the 9 markers on the DSM-5 criteria to get a diagnosis. It's quite unfair to write off all people/women with the diagnosis, just because of your experience of a few.