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Bus lane cameras to be introduced in 2020

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,637 ✭✭✭ Payton
    Registered User


    Pity it's only DCC and the rest of the council's don't do this.
    There are plenty of area's where I live in South Dublin and it's the norm to drive in the bus lane and hard shoulder. Put a camera watching the red light jumpers and we'll be awash with money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,883 ✭✭✭ markpb
    Registered User


    It’s fantastic that DCC are tackling this problem but there are so many stumbling blocks that’s it’s hard to see it going anywhere.

    The existing red light cameras installed by TII/NTA on the Red Luas line have been stuck in reporting mode for several years with no ambition to revert to issuing fines.

    The DPC recently instructed AGS to disable static ANPR because of privacy concerns. That could definitely be fixed by a change in procedure or legislation but no one seems to be volunteering to do that.

    The minister of transport has recently announced in the Dail that he has no intention of supporting legislation that would allow the NTA to install bus lane enforcement cameras. He wants to leave that with AGS because they’re doing such a sterling job right now.

    DCC indicated in the article that they have no funding for a full rollout of a system like this. That’s obviously lean on AGS to pay for it but they have their own budgetary problems so that seems unlikely.

    Any system which relies on the government to draft legislation and provide funding to support a system that will be widely criticised as punishing the poor motorist isn’t going to be top of any government, especially one that could be facing into an election in the next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23 SauNewb
    Registered User


    There is a line in the article - "Cameras are currently used to detect drivers who are breaking the speed limit and used as evidence to prosecute drivers."

    Is this true, or is it only speed camera vans that catch people?


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭ AlekSmart
    Registered User


    markpb wrote: »
    It’s fantastic that DCC are tackling this problem but there are so many stumbling blocks that’s it’s hard to see it going anywhere.

    The existing red light cameras installed by TII/NTA on the Red Luas line have been stuck in reporting mode for several years with no ambition to revert to issuing fines.

    The DPC recently instructed AGS to disable static ANPR because of privacy concerns. That could definitely be fixed by a change in procedure or legislation but no one seems to be volunteering to do that.

    The minister of transport has recently announced in the Dail that he has no intention of supporting legislation that would allow the NTA to install bus lane enforcement cameras. He wants to leave that with AGS because they’re doing such a sterling job right now.

    DCC indicated in the article that they have no funding for a full rollout of a system like this. That’s obviously lean on AGS to pay for it but they have their own budgetary problems so that seems unlikely.

    Any system which relies on the government to draft legislation and provide funding to support a system that will be widely criticised as punishing the poor motorist isn’t going to be top of any government, especially one that could be facing into an election in the next year.

    SO many agencies....SO little accountability or progress....It's how we do it !!! :D


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭ Breezer
    Registered User


    markpb wrote: »
    It’s fantastic that DCC are tackling this problem but there are so many stumbling blocks that’s it’s hard to see it going anywhere.

    The existing red light cameras installed by TII/NTA on the Red Luas line have been stuck in reporting mode for several years with no ambition to revert to issuing fines.

    The DPC recently instructed AGS to disable static ANPR because of privacy concerns. That could definitely be fixed by a change in procedure or legislation but no one seems to be volunteering to do that.

    The minister of transport has recently announced in the Dail that he has no intention of supporting legislation that would allow the NTA to install bus lane enforcement cameras. He wants to leave that with AGS because they’re doing such a sterling job right now.

    DCC indicated in the article that they have no funding for a full rollout of a system like this. That’s obviously lean on AGS to pay for it but they have their own budgetary problems so that seems unlikely.

    Any system which relies on the government to draft legislation and provide funding to support a system that will be widely criticised as punishing the poor motorist isn’t going to be top of any government, especially one that could be facing into an election in the next year.

    We are definitely facing an election in the next couple of months. The Minister For Transport will be gone and we’ll have a new government that in all likelihood will involve the Green Party in some form. I have hope.


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  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 43,513 Mod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder
    Moderator


    Breezer wrote: »
    The Minister For Transport will be gone
    now we hear he is quietly pleased with pre-election polling figures in his Dublin Rathdown constituency
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/miriam-lord-the-dara-murphy-fierce-big-job-in-europe-award-goes-to-1.4123774


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,629 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner
    Registered User


    Breezer wrote: »
    We are definitely facing an election in the next couple of months. The Minister For Transport will be gone and we’ll have a new government that in all likelihood will involve the Green Party in some form. I have hope.

    Great more taxes


  • Registered Users Posts: 73,849 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn
    Registered User


    Breezer wrote: »
    We are definitely facing an election in the next couple of months. The Minister For Transport will be gone and we’ll have a new government that in all likelihood will involve the Green Party in some form. I have hope.


    Hopefully not, they have done so much damage to the environment and people's health since they were last in..promotion of diesel cars, wood burning stoves etc etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,222 ✭✭✭ StreetLight
    Registered User


    Breezer wrote: »
    We are definitely facing an election in the next couple of months. The Minister For Transport will be gone and we’ll have a new government that in all likelihood will involve the Green Party in some form. I have hope.

    The only thing consistent about the Greens is their ability to foist more taxes on working people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    Hopefully not, they have done so much damage to the environment and people's health since they were last in..promotion of diesel cars, wood burning stoves etc etc.

    I love how minority parties are hung out for events decades ago. Yet the major parties are forgiven by the vast majority of the electorate after two elections max.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭ Breezer
    Registered User




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭ Breezer
    Registered User


    Hopefully not, they have done so much damage to the environment and people's health since they were last in..promotion of diesel cars, wood burning stoves etc etc.

    I’m not here to evangelise for them or turn this into an election campaign thread for anyone in particular. I’ve voted for a different party at nearly every election. Which politician or grouping do you see giving more priority to sustainable transport, out of interest? We can be cynical about politics or agencies all we want, but unless you’re advocating revolution, it’s best to vote for those you feel are most likely to advance the issues you care about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,710 ✭✭✭✭ Zebra3
    Registered User


    Ross may be returned as a TD (he may not even stand again), but he's highly unlikely to be the minister over transport in the next government.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭ Kaisr Sose
    Registered User


    Great to learn of cameras monitoring bus lanes during hours of operation but who is monitoring? They now have bye laws to restrict Air BnB let's but nobody to monitor compliance.

    The DPC ruling on static ANPR defies logic. You have no right to privacy in public. As long as the ANPR data is stored and controlled within strict guidelines, what is the DPC issue in Ireland that does not exist elsewhere in Europe? Or perhaps this is the DPC saying I don't trust the data will be stored in compliance? Or is this the National ID card debate in another form?

    Then the lack of red light policing technologies...? When you read about all the money wasted on stupid things, it defies all logic that technology that would generate revenue from those that ignore red lights continues to be shelved? The tech is getting on for 20yrs old at this stage?

    What comes first safety on the road or a right to privacy or other right to do what you please with no fear of getting caught? It just can't continue like this


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »
    Great to learn of cameras monitoring bus lanes during hours of operation but who is monitoring? They now have bye laws to restrict Air BnB let's but nobody to monitor compliance.

    The DPC ruling on static ANPR defies logic. You have no right to privacy in public. As long as the ANPR data is stored and controlled within strict guidelines, what is the DPC issue in Ireland that does not exist elsewhere in Europe? Or perhaps this is the DPC saying I don't trust the data will be stored in compliance? Or is this the National ID card debate in another form?

    Then the lack of red light policing technologies...? When you read about all the money wasted on stupid things, it defies all logic that technology that would generate revenue from those that ignore red lights continues to be shelved? The tech is getting on for 20yrs old at this stage?

    What comes first safety on the road or a right to privacy or other right to do what you please with no fear of getting caught? It just can't continue like this

    There are a lot of departments in Ireland who are using GDPR as an easy excuse. The GDPR argument is nonsense here they have them in Belfast.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,350 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine
    Moderator


    This is interesting. I still think Ross or a competent minister that replaces him should give the NTA power to enforce them. Gardaí have no interest in enforcing minor traffic offences or even in bringing in technology to do it.

    Ross and the Guards must be the only people left in the country now who think the current level of enforcement is satisfactory.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,629 ✭✭✭✭ average_runner
    Registered User


    I love how minority parties are hung out for events decades ago. Yet the major parties are forgiven by the vast majority of the electorate after two elections max.

    If I remember right, FF got hung after that election. Not been in power since


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]
    Registered User


    The greens get off lighter than anyone after all that mess. If they get in this time around then we might as well just empty the pockets straight away because they’re nothing short of thieves.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭ trellheim
    Registered User


    Has anyone a link to the ANPR ruling ? - not a news article


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,280 ✭✭✭ dowlingm
    Registered User


    Interesting to note the dates in these news articles; how long the cops and their political masters have been faffing around with ANPR knowing that a fit for purpose data protection regime is an issue and still choosing not to make that a reality

    2006 https://www.digitalrights.ie/minister-for-justice-ducks-questions-on-number-plate-surveillance-scheme/

    2010 https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/icrime/100000-licence-plates-scanned-each-day-116920.html


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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    If I remember right, FF got hung after that election. Not been in power since

    FF who crashed the economy, multiple times are currently sitting top or with in the margin of top of the polls which is my point. The large parties are forgiven after 1 maybe 2 elections, the smaller ones are drawn over the coals forever


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭ LeinsterDub
    Registered User


    trellheim wrote: »
    Has anyone a link to the ANPR ruling ? - not a news article

    There is no issue with GDPR it's a fiction. Belfast has these cameras without any problem


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭ trellheim
    Registered User


    There is no issue with GDPR it's a fiction. Belfast has these cameras without any problem

    Different Data protection commissioner to be fair, Helen Dixon has no remit in the UK


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭ Breezer
    Registered User


    trellheim wrote: »
    Different Data protection commissioner to be fair, Helen Dixon has no remit in the UK

    But GDPR is EU law. Surely the provisions applying here are the same as those that apply in the UK, until Brexit happens at least?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,608 ✭✭✭ Kaisr Sose
    Registered User


    Breezer wrote: »
    But GDPR is EU law. Surely the provisions applying here are the same as those that apply in the UK, until Brexit happens at least?

    Using GDPR as a reason no to do something (in this case not rolling out static ANPR cameras) is the administrative equivalent of a No Comment Garda interview. They are all over Continental Europe as is GDPR, with no issues on privacy when driving a vehicle on a public road. Nor should there be.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,393 ✭✭✭✭ Spanish Eyes
    Registered User


    We are on camera every day in public places. I fail to see what the issue is with ANPR in a public place either.

    But DPC must justify its existence I suppose. But public places are surely exempt.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,529 ✭✭✭✭ salmocab
    Registered User


    I love how minority parties are hung out for events decades ago. Yet the major parties are forgiven by the vast majority of the electorate after two elections max.

    To be fair Eamon Ryan pushed Diesel engines on us and only recently when asked about it said the motor industry told him it was best. That’s the sort of politician we can do without.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick
    Registered User


    Kaisr Sose wrote: »

    The DPC ruling on static ANPR defies logic. You have no right to privacy in public. As long as the ANPR data is stored and controlled within strict guidelines, what is the DPC issue in Ireland that does not exist elsewhere in Europe? Or perhaps this is the DPC saying I don't trust the data will be stored in compliance? Or is this the National ID card debate in another form?

    Then the lack of red light policing technologies...? When you read about all the money wasted on stupid things, it defies all logic that technology that would generate revenue from those that ignore red lights continues to be shelved? The tech is getting on for 20yrs old at this stage?

    What comes first safety on the road or a right to privacy or other right to do what you please with no fear of getting caught? It just can't continue like this

    everybody has a right to their personal data being processed fairly.
    its an EU fundamental right like free speech or the right to information on the environment. it can be restricted, if the processors comply with the laws to restrict it within the law.
    But the cops and the state cant be bothered to implement the "strict guidelines" to restrict the processing of personal data within the law., so aren't allowed.
    I mean they only had 3 years to figure this out....


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,437 ✭✭✭ Charles Babbage
    Registered User


    trellheim wrote: »
    Different Data protection commissioner to be fair, Helen Dixon has no remit in the UK


    People should not be beating the DPC, they should be beating the lazy government that does not bring in regulations allowing the use of such data, specifying the conditions of that use and who can see it and so on.



    As for not wishing to punish the motorist, they should simply state that fines etc remain the same and that the measure is not to catch more motorists but to free up AGS for hunting paedophiles or some other thing.

    But such a measure for bus lanes would also require measures to stop empty taxis, ministerial cars etc using them to ensure public acceptance.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,663 ✭✭✭ trellheim
    Registered User


    Breezer wrote: »
    But GDPR is EU law. Surely the provisions applying here are the same as those that apply in the UK, until Brexit happens at least?


    It certainly is, but as mentioned above, the DPC apparently has issued a directive or something.

    I've read the DPC website and can find no mention of it recently, but perhaps am looking in the wrong place. I want to see what exactly is the issue before jumping on one bandwagon or the other.


    GDPR compliance requires very clearly defined protections so I am interested here.


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