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J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

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    #1982
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Sure:




    They you are. A trans-women is a male. Ofcourse such a problem already exists in Ireland, fully supported by yourself no doubt:



    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/male-born-transgender-sex-offender-20051834

    Can you define nuance for €5?
    Saying trans women shouldn’t be in male prisons is not the same as saying male sex offenders should be housed with female offenders.


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    #1983
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Exactly, we need bigger hips to carry babies in there but now that's a stereotype.

    Big hips don’t make you mince or swagger.


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    #1984
    Girly Gal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,865 ✭✭✭Girly Gal


    Slowyourrole wrote: »
    I disagree. If it is fundamentally unenforceable, it's a moot argument.





    But a third space would have the same issue. Trans men in with trans women would have the same problems as men in with women. You'd need a fourth space then too.





    It's been a while since I was in college but I'm fairly sure there was a doctrine that a law must be enforceable in order to be constitutional.


    Somebody suggested a "third space" for trans. I think we should be working towards a single space for everyone where possible but with systems for privacy. One changing room but private changing booths. One bathroom but with private stalls. Not only would it be more inclusive for everyone, you'd also give everyone more dignity and safety. I've never understood why I'm supposed to be ok with somebody letting everything hang out in the gym locker room just because we have the same genitalia

    I once worked for a medium sized company with unisex toilets, all the toilets were in separate fully enclosed units with sink and hand dryer within each unit too.It was a little strange first, but, there was never any issues. The workforce would've been roughly 50:50 male, female and no it wasn't a very progressive PC company, it was probably just cheaper for the company instead of having a ladies & gents toilets.


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    #1985
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Try harder? Is your argument that there is no difference between men and women?

    Honestly?

    My argument is posters are relying on stereotypes to differentiate between men and women, deep voices, hip movements etc

    Thats just ridiculous in 2020


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    #1986
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Can you define nuance for €5?
    Saying trans women shouldn’t be in male prisons is not the same as saying male sex offenders should be housed with female offenders.

    Where would you like to draw the line so?

    I'm more than happy to state my position. Men are men. Women are women.

    What's your line?


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    #1987
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    My argument is posters are relying on stereotypes to differentiate between men and women, deep voices, hip movements etc

    Thats just ridiculous in 2020

    Nope.

    Not stereotypes. Differences.

    It's ok to acknowledge differences between gende...... I mean... Sexes.

    You guys already took that word.

    Men are different than women. Women are different than men.

    I'm not saying either is better, they are just different. There is no discrimination, just realisation.

    If you honestly don't think a man and a woman are different, I feel very sorry for you


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    #1988
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Big hips don’t make you mince or swagger.

    No it doesn't. And its not what I said.

    It's there to allow us to have babies. Not all women have babies but it's the reason we have a different hip ratio.

    So not a 1950s stereotype.


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    #1989
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    jam_mac_jam wrote: »
    Try harder? Is your argument that there is no difference between men and women?

    Honestly?

    It’s funny because a lot of transgender activism falls back on regressive stereotyping. Trying to get a definition of man or woman without mentioning biological sex can be eye-opening.


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    #1990
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Can you define nuance for €5?
    Saying trans women shouldn’t be in male prisons is not the same as saying male sex offenders should be housed with female offenders.

    So go on, explain the nuance element here. Were should a male-bodied woman convicted of sexual crimes be housed then?

    Because remember, trans-women are women according to you, so a prison just for trans people won't cut it ;)

    I presume you disagree with the set up in Limerick described in the article.

    Because remember, trans-women are women, so a prison just for trans people


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    #1991
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Nope.

    Not stereotypes. Differences.

    It's ok to acknowledge differences between gende...... I mean... Sexes.

    You guys already took that word.

    Men are different than women. Women are different than men.

    I'm not saying either is better, they are just different. There is no discrimination, just realisation.

    If you honestly don't think a man and a woman are different, I feel very sorry for you

    I’m saying nothing you’ve presented here as ‘differences’ are inherent to either sex.


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    #1992
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    I’m saying nothing you’ve presented here as ‘differences’ are inherent to either sex.

    You've already been told the differences between the sexes. You just refuse to accept them because your whole ideology falls to ashes:

    A female is:
    a person bearing two X chromosomes in the cell nuclei and normally having a vagina, a uterus and ovaries, and developing at puberty a relatively rounded body and enlarged breasts, and retaining a beardless face; a girl or woman.

    A male is:
    a person bearing an X and Y chromosome pair in the cell nuclei and normally having a penis, scrotum, and testicles, and developing hair on the face at adolescence; a boy or man.


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    #1993
    lozenges
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Hello,
    This is the 1950s calling.
    We want you to judge Miss Stereotype 1952.

    Please come on. Try harder.

    Why do breasts induce gender dysphoria in individuals who identify as male?
    Why do penises induce gender dysphoria in individuals who identify as female?

    According to you neither are indicative of or typical of either sex (in fact binary sexes do not exist in humans) so can you explain this phenomenon?


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    #1994
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    So go on, explain the nuance element here. Were should a male-bodied woman convicted of sexual crimes be housed then?

    Because remember, trans-women are women according to you, so a prison just for trans people won't cut it ;)

    I presume you disagree with the set up in Limerick described in the article so?

    Sex offenders are regularly housed separately in prisons.
    White collar crime, so called celebrities are housed separately in prisons.

    Let’s, wait for it, judge each case in its own merits. Oh my god I’m so radical.

    Looks like they took precautions in Limerick, so you don’t want them to take precautions?

    Should women who sexually assault women be put in male prisons?


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    #1995
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    lozenges wrote: »
    Why do breasts induce gender dysphoria in individuals who identify as male?
    Why do penises induce gender dysphoria in individuals who identify as female?

    According to you neither are indicative of or typical of either sex (in fact according to you binary sexes do not exist in humans) so can you explain this phenomenon?

    Do they in all cases? I know of people who have transitioned and who haven’t. Shockingly every journey is different.

    I also know men with Gynecomastia who embrace it and others who really struggle.

    It’s not a one size fits all I’m afraid.


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    #1996
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    You've already been told the differences between the sexes. You just refuse to accept them because your whole ideology falls to ashes:

    A female is:



    A male is:

    So you know no women with facial hair?


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    #1997
    lozenges
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Do they in all cases? I know of people who have transitioned and who haven’t. Shockingly every journey is different.

    I also know men with Gynecomastia who embrace it and others who really struggle.

    It’s not a one size fits all I’m afraid.

    The discussion is about trans people, so yes, I am asking the question in the context of people who have transitioned.

    I await your answer.


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    #1998
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    lozenges wrote: »
    The discussion is about trans people, so yes, I am asking the question in the context of people who have transitioned.

    I await your answer.

    I’ve not met a trans person with the dysphoria you speak of.


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    #1999
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Sex offenders are regularly housed separately in prisons.
    White collar crime, so called celebrities are housed separately in prisons.

    Let’s, wait for it, judge each case in its own merits. Oh my god I’m so radical.

    Looks like they took precautions in Limerick, so you don’t want them to take precautions?

    Should women who sexually assault women be put in male prisons?

    Let's bring this to an absurd conclusion.

    If I can choose my gender, why can I not choose my job?

    If I identify as taoiseach, by your logic, why can't I be?

    How is walking into a job you've been sacked from and declaring yourself as still employed any more absurd than stating that, despite been born with a penis and testicles, you are a lovely actual woman?

    Lunatics.


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    #2000
    jam_mac_jam
    Registered Users Posts: 4,725 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    So you know no women with facial hair?

    Do you see where it says normally having. It does not say all men have facial hair or that women cannot.

    I think maybe you are being disingenuous by picking out that particular part and ignoring the rest of the definition.


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    #2001
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    I’ve not met a trans person with the dysphoria you speak of.

    I've never met a child murderer. I know they exist though and have opinions on them.


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    #2002
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Sex offenders are regularly housed separately in prisons.
    White collar crime, so called celebrities are housed separately in prisons.

    And again you don't answer. Ofcourse you are ignoring the fact that sex offenders are still held held with other sex offenders. But no worries, I'll be even yet more specific, we'll eventually get to a stage were you have to actually directly answer the question put forth:

    Should a male-bodied trans-woman sex offenders be housed in prison with female-bodied sex offenders (read 'cis' women if you must)? And if not, why not?

    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Let’s, wait for it, judge each case in its own merits. Oh my god I’m so radical.

    What do you mean on it's own merits. If someone says they are a woman they are a woman no? Are you suggesting a judge should get to decide if this is the case? How transphobic of you!
    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Looks like they took precautions in Limerick, so you don’t want them to take precautions?

    Should women who sexually assault women be put in male prisons?

    People should be in a prison with others who correspond to their sex. My position is quite clear on this.

    As to precautions, if they are required they should take place in the prison that corresponds to the prisoners sex.


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    #2003
    Gruffalux
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,023 ✭✭✭Gruffalux


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    My argument is posters are relying on stereotypes to differentiate between men and women, deep voices, hip movements etc

    Thats just ridiculous in 2020

    Stereotypes are subjective.
    Biological structures are objective.

    Vocal chords and hips are objectively different in men and women.


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    #2004
    lozenges
    Registered Users Posts: 290 ✭✭lozenges


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    I’ve not met a trans person with the dysphoria you speak of.

    Why do you think the trans people that you know transitioned? It's not an easy thing to do, so presumably it was driven by some strong feeling.


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    #2005
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Let's bring this to an absurd conclusion.

    If I can choose my gender, why can I not choose my job?

    If I identify as taoiseach, by your logic, why can't I be?

    How is walking into a job you've been sacked from and declaring yourself as still employed any more absurd than stating that, despite been born with a penis and testicles, you are a lovely actual woman?

    Lunatics.

    Because life isn’t about what’s in your pants it’s about your merits.


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    #2006
    CtevenSrowder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭CtevenSrowder


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    So you know no women with facial hair?

    We've gone over this. You clearly aren't learning. Did you not read my views on biological homology like you promised me you would?

    No worries, I'll explain again, I'm a very patient man:
    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Just because one has a hairy face does not preclude one from being a women. But not having XX-chromosomes, a vagina, ovaries etc. does.

    This is the point.

    or explained another way:
    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    Do they have ovaries, a vagina, XX chromosomes etc. Then they are women. One does not have to hit literally everything in the definition, the problem is one who hits none of them, they are not female. They are male (or intersex;) )


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    #2007
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    Because life isn’t about what’s in your pants it’s about your merits.

    Life is actually about what's in your pants. It's how life happens.

    Next week, get prepared for some bad news about santa.


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    #2008
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    lozenges wrote: »
    Why do you think the trans people that you know transitioned? It's not an easy thing to do, so presumably it was driven by some strong feeling.

    It’s deeply personal and I haven’t felt the need to pry into their private lives.

    Like imagine I don’t even know if they’ve had surgery, I don’t know if they are on hormones or anything.


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    #2009
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    CtevenSrowder wrote: »
    We've gone over this. You clearly aren't learning. Did you not read my views on biological homology like you promised me you would?

    No worries, I'll explain again, I'm a very patient man:



    or explained another way:

    You need to present a different definition of male or female then if it’s going to have to rely on things like facial hair or breast tissue.

    I can’t take the point if the point is so easily invalidated by posting a picture of my Aunt Pearls handlebar moustache.


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    #2010
    0xzmro3n4y7lb5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 686 ✭✭✭0xzmro3n4y7lb5


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Life is actually about what's in your pants. It's how life happens.

    Next week, get prepared for some bad news about santa.

    And I think that’s why you are having the issues you are because life is about what’s going on upstairs not downstairs. Get the lift ;)


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    #2011
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »
    It’s deeply personal and I haven’t felt the need to pry into their private lives.

    Like imagine I don’t even know if they’ve had surgery, I don’t know if they are on hormones or anything.

    So you know absolutely nothing about the subject.

    Great.

    We can ascertain you believe men can be women and women can be men and you are scared to ask people about it because it has nothing to do with you yet you will defend the rights of people who you know nothing about passionately on a forum for no reason but to show how much you believe in the absence of sex and that sex is a thing otherwise why would someone transition.

    Totally rational.


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