J. K. Rowling is cancelled because she is a T.E.R.F [ADMIN WARNING IN POST #1]

Delaney Nice Salesclerk

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

It’s subjective, so whatever I say you will criticise.

People have different views on the differences between men and women.

If people want to discriminate against a prospective employee because of what’s in their trousers or isn’t, nothing that I will say will change your mind.

Thankfully we have the WRC/IHREC to protect people from discrimination based on their genitalia as well as a whole other host of issues most people are progressing on.

People who have different views on what makes a man a man or a woman a woman are typically people I tend to ignore.

I don't discriminate against people depending "on what's in their trousers" but I do acknowledge there is a difference.

Your focus on genitals is a little creepy. I just know a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

No idea where you think I'm in favour of discrimination unless you somehow feel that a man is better or worse than a woman?!

Slowyourrole

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

You ask good questions. As far as I'm concerned however, the debate can't even move to this stage until people accept biological reality. A female cannot be a male, a trans woman cannot be a woman. They are a trans-woman.

I disagree. If it is fundamentally unenforceable, it's a moot argument.

Gruffalox wrote: »

This is an argument used. But it is unsustainable. The truth is women have been peaceably using private facilities with transwomen for a long time. These transwomen do not seek to enact a political showdown. They live their lives, do not demand that people say TW ARE W, and women have always been fine with that and them. These transwomen sometimes speak out against the radical bullies and are called names by them.
What is happening now is much different. There is a nasty element who seek to usurp all single sex spaces from sport to representation to refuge etc and they have vocal threatening bullies among them who are very much engaged in a political pogram. As for accommodation the third space is a compassionate and viable solution that recognises trans people need their privacy and safety.

Edited because I used a word incorrectly

But a third space would have the same issue. Trans men in with trans women would have the same problems as men in with women. You'd need a fourth space then too.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

With self ID, none of that can be checked.

Before self ID was a thing? Well, by your argument, many laws are unenforceable. So should we not have them? No, because they provide guidance and a framework for if somebody does want to report something. We can’t throw women and girls under the bus just because it’s difficult to do otherwise.

People have said that self ID has caused no issues in Ireland. I smile wryly at that. Everyone knows that the rate of reporting for sexual crimes is low.

It's been a while since I was in college but I'm fairly sure there was a doctrine that a law must be enforceable in order to be constitutional.


Somebody suggested a "third space" for trans. I think we should be working towards a single space for everyone where possible but with systems for privacy. One changing room but private changing booths. One bathroom but with private stalls. Not only would it be more inclusive for everyone, you'd also give everyone more dignity and safety. I've never understood why I'm supposed to be ok with somebody letting everything hang out in the gym locker room just because we have the same genitalia

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

People who have different views on what makes a man a man or a woman a woman are typically people I tend to ignore.

I don't discriminate against people depending "on what's in their trousers" but I do acknowledge there is a difference.

Your focus on genitals is a little creepy. I just know a man is a man and a woman is a woman.

No idea where you think I'm in favour of discrimination unless you somehow feel that a man is better or worse than a woman?!

I think you’ve revealed your problem, you ignore people with different views to you.

You’re the one focusing on the differences between men and women, setting up a narrow physical binary.

I like to find similarities between people.

CtevenSrowder

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Your catastophising.

I'm not. Your the one who refuses to define things. Everything I said is perfectly valid if your World view was to be the majority one. You can't even define well defined words.

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

For someone who claims to be socially liberally you’ve hit every branch of the regressive tree on your way there.

Your points have been used against black people, women, gay people and here you are socially liberal just trotting them out again.

You would say that, as you are an extreme progressive. And in order to be one, you have to be seen to be more progressive then everyone else. Which of my points have been 'used against' any of those groups?

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Can you point out more than ten situations world wide where someone has claimed to be black and trans and disabled and gay to claim something they weren’t eligible for under the rules of the scheme?

No, because thankfully your bizarre politics is an extreme minority, they just make a lot of noise on social media. One cannot 'identify' as being disabled and obtain welfare, one has to actually be disabled to do this. This is the point.
If the World was the way you wished it was, one would be able to identify as disabled to get this payment, and who would you or anyone be to say this is wrong?

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Or is your argument like the critics of part timers getting the pup payment? People fully eligible under the rules of the scheme but because they are slightly better off in life or than ‘you’, well we can’t be having that. Can we now?

I've no problem with the part-timers getting the PUP. Though, like most of what you post, I fail to see the relevancy. It seems like you are trying to build me up as some sort of right-winger. Unfortunately for you I'm not.

Delaney Nice Salesclerk

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

I think you’ve revealed your problem, you ignore people with different views to you.

You’re the one focusing on the differences between men and women, setting up a narrow physical binary.

I like to find similarities between people.

Ahhhhhh... No.

I ignore people who say sex is a belief in the same way I ignore people who think a circle is a square.

It might be an opinion, but it is patently, demonstrably and categorically incorrect and should not be given any credence.

A man and a woman are different. If you think differently you are wrong. It is not open for debate.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

I'm not. Your the one who refuses to define things. Everything I said is perfectly valid if your World view was to be the majority one. You can't even define well defined words.



You would say that, as you are an extreme progressive. And in order to be one, you have to be seen to be more progressive then everyone else. Which of my points have been 'used against' any of those groups?



No, because thankfully your bizarre politics is an extreme minority, they just make a lot of noise on social media. One cannot 'identify' as being disabled and obtain welfare, one has to actually be disabled to do this. This is the point.
If the World was the way you wished it was, one would be able to identify as disabled to get this payment, and who would you or anyone be to say this is wrong?


I've no problem with the part-timers getting the PUP. Though, like most of what you post, I fail to see the relevancy. It seems like you are trying to build me up as some sort of right-winger. Unfortunately for you I'm not.

“It seems like you are trying to build me up as some sort of right-winger”.

Oh no honey!

You’ve done that all by yourself.

To paraphrase: I’m not catastrophising but these situations I’ve outlined have never happened.

And my favourite: everything I said is fine if you’re not a minority.

Buy a pack of skittles today, taste the rainbow because you read as very black and white, even a little grey in your life would add colour.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Ahhhhhh... No.

I ignore people who say sex is a belief in the same way I ignore people who think a circle is a square.

It might be an opinion, but it is patently, demonstrably and categorically incorrect and should not be given any credence.

A man and a woman are different. If you think differently you are wrong. It is not open for debate.

Could you enlighten me with how you think men and women differ?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Slowyourrole wrote: »

Somebody suggested a "third space" for trans. I think we should be working towards a single space for everyone where possible but with systems for privacy. One changing room but private changing booths. One bathroom but with private stalls. Not only would it be more inclusive for everyone, you'd also give everyone more dignity and safety. I've never understood why I'm supposed to be ok with somebody letting everything hang out in the gym locker room just because we have the same genitalia

Not all buildings have the space to create self-contained units. In those, sex-segregated spaces must be maintained.

It’s not even just about changing room and toilets. Prisons contain some of the most vulnerable women in society, something that middle class activists would probably never even consider. Here’s an interesting Law Soc article:

https://www.lawsociety.ie/gazette/top-stories/male-bodied-transgender-inmate-housed-with-women-prisoners/

Annasopra

Deleted User wrote: »

In that case, the child needs immediate psychiatric help and not for the parent to capitulate and lop off their genitals and reassure them that they are being rational.

Nobody is advocating surgery on 12 year olds. Stupid comment.

Delaney Nice Salesclerk

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Could you enlighten me with how you think men and women differ?

Sure.

They are different on a genetic and biological level and are easily distinguishable from pretty much the moment of conception.

A woman is born with a vagina and a man is born with a penis.

A woman typically can be impregnated by a man and thus ensures that reproduction of the species carries on.

None of this is a matter of thought or opinion.

Now, can you tell me what you think is wrong with I said and let me know what you think makes a man or a woman.

CtevenSrowder

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

“It seems like you are trying to build me up as some sort of right-winger”.

Oh no honey!

You’ve done that all by yourself.

To paraphrase: I’m not catastrophising but these situations I’ve outlined have never happened.

And my favourite: everything I said is fine if you’re not a minority.

Buy a pack of skittles today, taste the rainbow because you read as very black and white, even a little grey in your life would add colour.

So no examples of how my points were used against other minorities. I didn't think so.
And as usual you you only selectively engage, or in this case not all, alongside bogus paraphrasing and putting words in my mouth to build strawmen that you then can't even successfully argue against. But sure what would one expect from someone who thinks it's perfectly acceptable for male convicted sex offenders to be in prison with women!

Some things are black and white, for example, a man is not a women. A male is not a female. A trans-woman is not a women. And I'm more of a Starburst kind of guy;)

cursai

A day out on the bog in warm weather always sorts out the men from the women.

Joeytheparrot

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nobody is advocating surgery on 12 year olds. Stupid comment.

Cool. But you do advocate that a child should be taught that sex is a choice or no?

CtevenSrowder

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

So no examples of how my points were used against other minorities. I didn't think so.
And as usual you you only selectively engage, or in this case not all, alongside bogus paraphrasing and putting words in my mouth to build strawmen that you then can't even successfully argue against. But sure what would one expect from someone who thinks it's perfectly acceptable for male convicted sex offenders to be in prison with women!

Some things are black and white, for example, a man is not a women. A male is not a female. A trans-woman is not a women. And I'm more of a Starburst kind of guy;)

Monster. They are opal fruits.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nobody is advocating surgery on 12 year olds. Stupid comment.

Is anyone advocating puberty blockers to preteens though? Because the NHS has recently admitted that the long-term affects of blockers are unknown because there are no long-term studies done, despite them previously claiming that they were “fully reversible”. So the prescription of these to preteens is unequivocally unethical.

Gruffalux

Slowyourrole wrote: »

I disagree. If it is fundamentally unenforceable, it's a moot argument.





But a third space would have the same issue. Trans men in with trans women would have the same problems as men in with women. You'd need a fourth space then too.





It's been a while since I was in college but I'm fairly sure there was a doctrine that a law must be enforceable in order to be constitutional.


Somebody suggested a "third space" for trans. I think we should be working towards a single space for everyone where possible but with systems for privacy. One changing room but private changing booths. One bathroom but with private stalls. Not only would it be more inclusive for everyone, you'd also give everyone more dignity and safety. I've never understood why I'm supposed to be ok with somebody letting everything hang out in the gym locker room just because we have the same genitalia

You described the third space when you described the single space. It is about practicalities. A self contained enclosed cubicle for all in single spaces would be grand if feasible - I said so earlier. Until it is feasible then the third space would also provide you an opportunity to avoid other mens dangly bits when not in the mood and also be a private space to look after oneself say if a woman was miscarrying or haemorrhaging.

Prisons need separate facilities. Sports needs separate competitions. Etc. It is not rocket science as I also said before - we do not have to hew these spaces out of rock with bone tools. Look at all the big changes for pandemic response - people are designing really innovative spaces for socially distancing in offices restaurants etc.
And.
We most certainly do not have to truthspeak on biological reality to facilitate ideology.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Sure.

They are different on a genetic and biological level and are easily distinguishable from pretty much the moment of conception.

A woman is born with a vagina and a man is born with a penis.

A woman typically can be impregnated by a man and thus ensures that reproduction of the species carries on.

None of this is a matter of thought or opinion.

Now, can you tell me what you think is wrong with I said and let me know what you think makes a man or a woman.

Can you tell me how you tell the difference between a man and a woman in an interview? In a gym? In real life situations.

Thank you.

Gruffalux

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Can you tell me how you tell the difference between a man and a woman in an interview? In a gym? In real life situations.

Thank you.

Voice pitch.
Body strength.
Hip movement.
For a start..

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

So no examples of how my points were used against other minorities. I didn't think so.
And as usual you you only selectively engage, or in this case not all, alongside bogus paraphrasing and putting words in my mouth to build strawmen that you then can't even successfully argue against. But sure what would one expect from someone who thinks it's perfectly acceptable for male convicted sex offenders to be in prison with women!

Some things are black and white, for example, a man is not a women. A male is not a female. A trans-woman is not a women. And I'm more of a Starburst kind of guy;)

Can you tell me where I said it’s acceptable for male convicted sex offenders to be in prison with women?

Protect children. Protect women. Etc and so forth ad nauseam have been used by bigots to deny people bodily autonomy from the right to have same sex acts, interracial marriages and abortion access. For a self identified liberal you’ve fallen for every trope going.

Nothing is black and white bar thinking which in some cases is a disorder eg splitting.

CtevenSrowder

Gruffalox wrote: »

Voice pitch.
Body strength.
Hip movement.
For a start..

Adams apple, deepness of voice etc.

This is all irrelevant to the fact that one cannot change their sex ofcourse, like certain posters seem to believe.

Gruffalux

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Nobody is advocating surgery on 12 year olds. Stupid comment.

Johanna Olson Kennedy is. She performs mastectomies on 12 year olds. One of the saddest videos I ever saw was a sweet kid who videotaped his "journey" when he had his penis removed at 17 in USA.

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Gruffalox wrote: »

Voice pitch.
Body strength.
Hip movement.
For a start..

Hello,
This is the 1950s calling.
We want you to judge Miss Stereotype 1952.

Please come on. Try harder.

Gruffalux

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Hello,
This is the 1950s calling.
We want you to judge Miss Stereotype 1952.

Please come on. Try harder.

Helloooo. Reality calling. Hip placement is structurally different. Pelvis differently made. It is noticeable. Even the butchest gal cannot hide that hint of a sway

Delaney Nice Salesclerk

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Can you tell me how you tell the difference between a man and a woman in an interview? In a gym? In real life situations.

Thank you.

Sure.

Sight, common sense and speech.

How do you tell the difference between a child an an adult?

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Adams apple, deepness of voice etc.

This is all irrelevant to the fact that one cannot change their sex ofcourse, like certain posters seem to believe.

Poor Kathleen Turner. One of the sexiest women ever. You’d probably ask her for a medical declaration to prove she was a woman.

CtevenSrowder

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Can you tell me where I said it’s acceptable for male convicted sex offenders to be in prison with women?

Protect children. Protect women. Etc and so forth ad nauseam have been used by bigots to deny people bodily autonomy from the right to have same sex acts, interracial marriages and abortion access. For a self identified liberal you’ve fallen for every trope going.

Nothing is black and white bar thinking which in some cases is a disorder eg splitting.

Sure:

CtevenSrowder wrote: »

Now I ask you again, do you think it is acceptable for biological males, even ones convicted of sex offences against women, to be put in prison with other women?

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Trans women should not be in male prisons, you people need everything literally spelled out for you.

They you are. A trans-women is a male. Ofcourse such a problem already exists in Ireland, fully supported by yourself no doubt:

A sex offender who was born male but identifies as female despite not having surgery, has been moved to a women’s prison in Limerick.

It is believed to be the first time that a transgender prisoner has been accommodated by the prison service.

She was originally detained in the Dóchas Centre in Dublin, but has since been transferred to the mid-west.

The inmate was born male but is now recognised as female under the Gender Recognition Act 2015.

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/male-born-transgender-sex-offender-20051834

0xzmro3n4y7lb5

Gruffalox wrote: »

Helloooo. Reality calling. Hip placement is structurally different. Pelvis differently made. It is noticeable. Even the butchest gal cannot hide that hint of a sway

That’s why most runway models were taught by gay males how to walk the runways. It’s not inherent it’s a learned behaviour or it’s from wearing heels.

I have to go cook the dinner, give me another insight to get me through preparing my meat and two veg and my new seasons queens.

lozenges

carolmon wrote: »

Surely that's an argument for broadening societal definitions of male and female and breaking through rigid gender conformity and stereotypes?

Let people dress how they want ... have the hobbies and interests they want and have sex with who they want without brainwashing them from birth that it's not appropriate for boys/girls ... men/women etc

If people felt truly free to live as they want and express themselves as they need there may not be this huge surge we see in (young women esp) rejection of their biological sex

A million times this.

jam_mac_jam

Delaney Nice Salesclerk wrote: »

Hello,
This is the 1950s calling.
We want you to judge Miss Stereotype 1952.

Please come on. Try harder.

Try harder? Is your argument that there is no difference between men and women?

Honestly?

jam_mac_jam

Gruffalox wrote: »

Helloooo. Reality calling. Hip placement is structurally different. Pelvis differently made. It is noticeable. Even the butchest gal cannot hide that hint of a sway

Exactly, we need bigger hips to carry babies in there but now that's a stereotype.