Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
Hello All, This is just a friendly reminder to read the Forum Charter where you wish to post before posting in it. :)

Hate Speech Public Consultation

1356785

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,045 ✭✭✭ MontgomeryClift


    The minister for justice considers being asked about mass immigration as hate speech.

    Hate speech is whatever they want it to be.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 349 ✭✭ X111111111111


    Exactly, surprised they didn't try and say the questions she was getting were just misogynistic .. that will cow any reporter into quiet submission.

    One lady on newstalk actually did use that interpretation of events.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ ThunbergsAreGo


    Didn't we just vote to remove our Blasphemy laws?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    US2 wrote: »
    The UK hate speech law doesn't define anything other than if someone finds something offensive you can be prosecuted.

    Nope - offensive on the basis of race, ethnicity or other broader grouping. And then the claim has to be proven in order for a crime to have been committed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    The minister for justice considers being asked about mass immigration as hate speech.

    Given that there is no mass immigration at play in this country, you’d have to wonder about the motivations of those who claim there is. The Venn diagram of racists and those who buy into ‘the great replacement’ isn’t exactly sparse territory.


  • Advertisement
  • Closed Accounts Posts: 838 ✭✭✭ The_Brood


    Didn't we just vote to remove our Blasphemy laws?

    As long as something is generally percieved as "sticking it" to religious people, whether vaguely or not, much of society and goverment support it.

    This is pretty much the underlining rule of the Western world right now, regardless of topic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    alastair wrote: »
    Given that there is no mass immigration at play in this country, you’d have to wonder about the motivations of those who claim there is. The Venn diagram of racists and those who buy into ‘the great replacement’ isn’t exactly sparse territory.
    who mentioned the great replacement? besides you that is. 1 in 5 people in Dublin are foreign, an increase of 51% since 2002. We should be allowed to discuss this without lazy accusations of racism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭ TwoMonthsOff


    who mentioned the great replacement? besides you that is. 1 in 5 people in Dublin are foreign, an increase of 51% since 2002. We should be allowed to discuss this without lazy accusations of racism.

    Didnt the UN actually acknowledge replacement migration?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ ThunbergsAreGo


    The_Brood wrote: »
    As long as something is generally percieved as "sticking it" to religious people, whether vaguely or not, much of society and goverment support it.

    This is pretty the underlining rule of the Western world right now, regardless of topic.

    Very true, especially if Christian


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    who mentioned the great replacement? besides you that is. 1 in 5 people in Dublin are foreign, an increase of 51% since 2002. We should be allowed to discuss this without lazy accusations of racism.

    A five percent increase in 17 years in one area of the country that has twice the immigrant population than the national average. Mass immigration it is not.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭ TwoMonthsOff


    Apparently the unicorn brigade are having a pro hate speech laws march on Saturday. I seen them on facebook sending out an SOS to Celtic football fans. It's a pity they got filled in by Rangers fans outside hampden yesterday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    Didnt the UN actually acknowledge replacement migration?

    Nope. They didn’t. They produced a research paper which outlined how it might be considered for regions which required greater population growth, but they didn’t advocate for it, or claim that it was occurring anywhere in the world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    Hypothetical question. If a white man beats up another white man, simply because one doesn’t like each other.
    And another white man beats up a coloured man for just the same reason.

    Would the punishment be the same in both cases?

    And if the coloured man got a few of his friends that were with him to say it was a hate crime, when it wasn’t, to what degree would the white man be punished by the law then?

    How about if 2 coloured men have a fight because they hate each other?

    Or if 2 coloured people from 2 separate countries have a fight, could one claim hate crime against the other?

    What If a coloured man hates white men and beats one up for the fun of it, what then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    Midster wrote: »
    Hypothetical question. If a white man beats up another white man, simply because one doesn’t like each other.
    And another white man beats up a coloured man for just the same reason.

    Would the punishment be the same in both cases?

    And if the coloured man got a few of his friends that were with him to say it was a hate crime, when it wasn’t, to what degree would the white man be punished by the law then?

    How about if 2 coloured men have a fight because they hate each other?

    Or if 2 coloured people from 2 separate countries have a fight, could one claim hate crime against the other?

    What If a coloured man hates white men and beats one up for the fun of it, what then?

    🙄

    Hypothetical question - you understand that hate speech is nothing to do with assault?


  • Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭ Midster


    alastair wrote: »
    🙄

    Hypothetical question - you understand that hate speech is nothing to do with assault?

    I know, but I just wanted to ask a theoretical question


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,285 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    Its really a massive oversimplification to say that uk hate speech laws are just anything offensive. Not just an oversimplification but untrue.

    A man was done for teaching a dog to raise its paw when he said heil hitler. Its a terrible law used to censor people at the whim of others feelings.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,488 ✭✭✭ WrenBoy


    Since many people don't believe in "reverse racism" (white people cannot be the victim of racism), will this law only allow non-white people to claim they are the victim of a racist hate crime ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    alastair wrote: »
    A five percent increase in 17 years in one area of the country that has twice the immigrant population than the national average. Mass immigration it is not.

    true but when do you propose mass immigration be discussed? when its already happened?


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    true but when do you propose mass immigration be discussed? when its already happened?

    Firstly no-one has been stopped discussing immigration.
    Secondly, if you are going to discuss immigration in terms that don’t tally with the reality, expect to be called out for shilling misinformation. That’s also part of the conversation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    alastair wrote: »
    Firstly no-one has been stopped discussing immigration.
    unless their assessment is 100% positive they will be called out with racism, bigot etc.

    I'm the son of an immigrant. I am the spouse of an immigrant. I do not live in some sort of mono cultural bubble. But I have seen what has happened on the continent. Parallel societies with little or no integration, indifference at best, hostility at worst. I just dont want this country to go down the same road.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    unless their assessment is 100% positive they will be called out with racism, bigot etc.

    I'm the son of an immigrant. I am the spouse of an immigrant. I do not live in some sort of mono cultural bubble. But I have seen what has happened on the continent. Parallel societies with little or no integration, indifference at best, hostility at worst. I just dont want this country to go down the same road.

    You’re raising a straw man argument there - and one that’s not remotely convincing. Racists and bigots are called out on their racism or bigotry - if you’re being called out for either, perhaps it’s worth considering if you are actually expounding racist or bigoted claims. Your perspective on the continent is remarkably out of whack with the norms I have experienced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    alastair wrote: »
    You’re raising a straw man argument there - and one that’s not remotely convincing. Racists and bigots are called out on their racism or bigotry - if you’re being called out for either, perhaps it’s worth considering if you are actually expounding racist or bigoted claims. Your perspective on the continent is remarkably out of whack with the norms I have experienced.

    i can only speak from my own experience too.

    you seem to think that the only time someone gets called racist is when they are being racist which even a cursory understanding of the current zeitgeist will tell you is total bollox. i've a feeling we're not going to agree on this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    i can only speak from my own experience too.

    you seem to think that the only time someone gets called racist is when they are being racist which even a cursory understanding of the current zeitgeist will tell you is total bollox. i've a feeling we're not going to agree on this.

    I get the feeling you are rather too quick to ascribe accusations of racism where none are levelled. Plenty of anti-immigration rhetoric is knee-deep in racism and bigotry, some is not - irregardless of any zeitgeist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,959 ✭✭✭ $hifty


    alastair wrote: »
    I get the feeling you are rather too quick to ascribe accusations of racism where none are levelled. Plenty of anti-immigration rhetoric is knee-deep in racism and bigotry, some is not - irregardless of any zeitgeist.

    This is an occurrence that is more prevalent these days.
    Person 1: says something about immigrants...
    Person 2: replies....
    Person 1: "who are you calling a racist?...bleeding heart liberals, the world is fcuked"
    Person 2: .....?
    Person 3: "That's their only response, when you lose the argument you just play the auld racism card, despicable"


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭ suicide_circus


    alastair wrote: »
    I get the feeling you are rather too quick to ascribe accusations of racism where none are levelled. Plenty of anti-immigration rhetoric is knee-deep in racism and bigotry, some is not - irregardless of any zeitgeist.
    irregardless lol. you dropped the R bomb in your first post in this thread man, give it up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    irregardless lol. you dropped the R bomb in your first post in this thread man, give it up.

    Nope. I didn’t.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,574 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    Midster wrote: »
    What If a coloured man hates white men and beats one up for the fun of it, what then?
    You said "coloured", so you're on the naughty step already.
    who mentioned the great replacement? besides you that is. 1 in 5 people in Dublin are foreign, an increase of 51% since 2002. We should be allowed to discuss this without lazy accusations of racism.
    Apparently not. When a Dublin city manager on Primetime expressed that the area of inner city Dublin he was responsible for was majority non Irish as a big positive and something to be proud of this will tell you much.
    I'm the son of an immigrant. I am the spouse of an immigrant. I do not live in some sort of mono cultural bubble. But I have seen what has happened on the continent. Parallel societies with little or no integration, indifference at best, hostility at worst. I just dont want this country to go down the same road.
    Pointless to argue with the multicultural zealots SC, especially if they have any skin in the game. They're near religious in their zeal and equally near religious in their inability to see the provable negatives and their speed at calling out blasphemy against their particular "faith".

    You don't want to go down the decades long potholed with the obvious negatives road of every single other multicultural nation in Europe? Every single one of which has ended up with extra social issues over non multicultural nations. This makes you a blasphemer. There is nothing to see here, nothing to discuss, it'll all be grand. This time. The multiculturalists have spoken. Diversity. Amen. And you will bow your head.

    And again it's always the White countries and cultures that are in need of this "diversity" and almost always from non White sources. The same multiculturalists would have a twitching fit if one were to suggest that a nation like Sudan would be similarly improved by the "diversity" of an influx of one in five palefaces. They wouldn't automatically call them Africans either. But apparently a Nigerian who showed up here in 03 has to be seen and called "Irish".

    Sadly I think the horse has bolted for Ireland. The lax and often pregnant with citizen points influx during the boom set that in motion. That and our ruling political class give us no real options to put forward a different view. About the only naysayers in the political field are made up of chancers, nutters and yep actual racists and nobody's going to vote for them en masse. Hopefully. Then again as we've seen again elsewhere, when you ignore people's concerns, enough of them will often do just that down the line.

    We're already seeing the usual trends of ghettoisation and "race" issues and better it's not going to get. It has been tightened up since, with the near blanket refusal of the usual suspects from the usual places(Georgia, Sub Saharan Africa, Romania), but the boom influx was often made up of same. The same who would be refused at point of entry under today's criteria.

    There is some hope here. Now that we've increased the entry requirements. Hopefully we won't see the numbers and percentages of other nations and the attendant problems. I won't hold my breath too long though, not when you have some in power going on about our nonexistent population crisis and the notion of this island sustaining a population double what it is. Even this very legislation - which I'm willing to bet will go ahead regardless as it's part and parcel of the multicultural politic - is yet another example of bowing to this stupid politic.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 59,574 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Wibbs


    alastair wrote: »
    Nope. I didn’t.
    True. It was the second.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    Wibbs wrote: »
    True. It was the second.

    In response to a question regarding Charlie Flanagan condemning racists online - sure. And?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 19,306 ✭✭✭✭ alastair


    Wibbs wrote: »
    When a Dublin city manager on Primetime expressed that the area of inner city Dublin he was responsible for was majority non Irish as a big positive and something to be proud of this will tell you much.

    Which area of the city is this then? Because as someone who lives in what’s regarded as the most densely non-national populated area of the inner city (indeed the nation), I can tell you that there’s no majority non-Irish here. The only way you get to majority non-nationals is to get down to electoral district cluster level (typically a couple of thousand people), and even then - there are only four of those in the country.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement