Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

mickdw

Mick McGraw wrote: »

I think it's his outright hypocrisy that people can't stand.Hamilton lives in tax haven, has owned a private jet and probably works in the most environmentally unfriendly sport in the world where he is employed by a car manufacturer, he's the last person in the world who has the right to tell other people to be more environmentally friendly.

Cant stand the man. I do however think he is genuinely into what he speaks out about. He went and got rid of his jet for green reasons..... the fool.

El_Duderino 09

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Hamilton is right on this regard but the sad reality is social media is highly toxic. If a white F1 driver spoke out he would get 100s/1000s of replies from people criticising him and if he doesn't speak out its the same

I'm seeing people tonight being labelled racist on social media because they don't think the March in dublin yesterday was appropriate in the current situation given people cannot attend funerals, are cocooning, cannot visit grandkids (in some cases some ppl have yet to meet their new grandchildren) etc. So they are automatically racist. One person in particular I know is involved with the sanctuary runners from direct provision centres and every Saturday brings 3 or 4 to the local parkrun and provided training assistance to these DP residents but some random person on Twitter starts retweeting his posts calling him a racist. Which can be highly damaging to a person's reputation

OK. That's criticism of social media. It has its good sides and bad sides. You're using social media to share your thoughts on social media.

In any case, Hamilton didn't do anything wrong by mentioning Floyd but he's still being called a SJW (I think calling someone a SJW for highlighting the likes of Floyd or the environment, is a real sign of a nob)

El_Duderino 09

Mick McGraw wrote: »

I think it's his outright hypocrisy that people can't stand.Hamilton lives in tax haven, has owned a private jet and probably works in the most environmentally unfriendly sport in the world where he is employed by a car manufacturer, he's the last person in the world who has the right to tell other people to be more environmentally friendly.

What's the tax haven got to do with environmentalism?

F1 isn't the most environmentally unfriendly sport in the worl. It only has 20 events a year. The premier league has 20 events a week with people travelling from all over the world. Plus f1 creates a lot of green technology.

He works for a car company but cars are pretty essential to our world as it stands. Plus he sold his private jet when soon after he started talking about the environment. Which is a fairly good example of acting in accordance with your rhetoric (the opposite of hypocrisy)

Mick McGraw

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

What's the tax haven got to do with environmentalism?

F1 isn't the most environmentally unfriendly sport in the worl. It only has 20 events a year. The premier league has 20 events a week with people travelling from all over the world. Plus f1 creates a lot of green technology.

He works for a car company but cars are pretty essential to our world as it stands. Plus he sold his private jet when soon after he started talking about the environment. Which is a fairly good example of acting in accordance with your rhetoric (the opposite of hypocrisy)

Everyone else has been forced to pay taxes by their governments to support the greenification of society he's decided to dodge that.


Per Event I would imagine F1 is very poor environmentally considering the global nature of the sport and the transport of all the equipment and staff around the world for each event.


Him claiming to be an environmentalist while being Mercedes most highly paid and high profile employee is like Richard Branson claiming to be an environmentalist while at the same time owning an airline.Transportation is necessary for most people to get through life, being an F1 driver is purely a choice.

I don't have a problem with Hamilton doing his job it's his pontificating that ticks me off when he should have a bit of self awareness when he comes out with his environmental stuff.

Mick McGraw

OSI wrote: »

"I'm never in one place long enough to call it home, should I continue to pay my taxes in Country A because of a piece of paper, or should I get another piece of paper from Country B that let's me pay significantly less taxes?"

I assume of course you've never once done a year end balancing statement, ordered something from another country because it was cheaper or done anything at all to reduce your tax liability?

You're not pontificating about stuff so you can do what you like, Hamilton likes to pontificate so he should be held to the same standards he expects from everyone else.

El_Duderino 09

Mick McGraw wrote: »

You're not pontificating about stuff so you can do what you like, Hamilton likes to pontificate so he should be held to the same standards he expects from everyone else.

Yeah. And how is he holding anyone to his standards?

Mick McGraw

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Yeah. And how is he holding anyone to his standards?

He wants people to go vegan to help the environment but at the same time he has no problem working for Mercedes or being sponsored by Petronas .

El_Duderino 09

Mick McGraw wrote: »

He wants people to go vegan to help the environment but at the same time he has no problem working for Mercedes or being sponsored by Petronas .

Right but that's not what I asked. I asked how he is holding anyone to any standards.

You do know that you don't have to go vegan because Lewis advocates for it, right? The truth is that Lewis probably won't be around to your door with a clipboard to check that you're vegan now and holding you to his standards.

Maybe I'm not as annoyed about it because I didn't take it as an instruction. I just took it as Lewis advocating for something he believes in.

rock22

Hamilton highlighted the treatment of George Floyd and the experience of black people in US

Whatever else about him, he has to be admired for that.

You don't have to be a social warrior to be critical of the treatment of black Americans by their police.

El_Duderino 09

rock22 wrote: »

...
You don't have to be a social warrior to be critical of the treatment of black Americans by their police.

I think for some people, you do.

I really don't get the objection to wanting to contribute to doing some good in the world.

I can't stand Hamilton's stage managed interviews; I feel so blessed, the fans in (invert country here) are the best, I just felt so much love from Team LH44 on twitter (also available on other social media). I also can't stand his whinging in the car or his wanting to be a fashion icon.

But I think he's a great driver and I can't fault his wanting to promote environmental concerns or George Floyd because they're both genuine issues which need to be addressed and change should happen.

pjohnson

McLaren & Mercedes have announced they are going to be sharing Reserve Drivers at races this year.

That means Vandoorne and Gutierrez may get McLaren drives this year.

ELM327

pjohnson wrote: »

McLaren & Mercedes have announced they are going to be sharing Reserve Drivers at races this year.

That means Vandoorne and Gutierrez may get McLaren drives this year.

So, that "not a works engine deal" mclaren have in the future with mercedes, looks more likely now?

Infoanon

ELM327 wrote: »

So, that "not a works engine deal" mclaren have in the future with mercedes, looks more likely now?

Probably more to do with the back up plan if a driver comes down with Covid 19 - very much in line with Zak Browns thinking of always have a contingency plan.

pjohnson

Suprised they didn't just ask Renault for Zhou and/or Sirotkin. Sirotkin technically hasn't been announced as a Renault driver but did fill in for Lundgaard (a Renault Junior) in the F2 pre-season test and was their shared reserve last year. Plus Zhou doesn't actually have a licence and would be ineligble so can only assume Sirotkin is still involved with Renault.

Racing Point now the only team without an official reserve driver. And neither of the Haas drivers have a licence but would probably expect Ferrari to give them Wehrlein if needed.

skipper_G

ELM327 wrote: »

So, that "not a works engine deal" mclaren have in the future with mercedes, looks more likely now?

I think you're reading too much into it. It's been done plenty of times before and in this specific instance the deal also includes Racing Point. It's precautionary, all teams need a reserve driver in the event one of their race drivers tests positive for Covid-19 and ends up quarantined.

recyclebin

All signs are pointing towards Mercedes exiting regardless of this announcement.

TCP/IP

recyclebin wrote: »

All signs are pointing towards Mercedes exiting regardless of this announcement.

How are you figuring that out?

Harika

recyclebin wrote: »

All signs are pointing towards Mercedes exiting regardless of this announcement.

Typically Mercedes, winning a championship to death, raising budget levels and then pissing off. Hello ITC, DTM, gt1

El_Duderino 09

Harika wrote: »

Typically Mercedes, winning a championship to death, raising budget levels and then pissing off. Hello ITC, DTM, gt1

Hamilton alone must be prohibitively expensive. I imagine they only stand to make money if they win both championships and get loads and loads of advertising.

Must be appealing to pull out and go do something else.

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Hamilton alone must be prohibitively expensive. I imagine they only stand to make money if they win both championships and get loads and loads of advertising.

Must be appealing to pull out and go do something else.

What else would they do then?

They are in Formula-E now already and its not like they can go mad spending there as there is limits to how much the teams can spend. I suppose they could come up with new technology for it do.
How about Mercedes in Moto GP lol.

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

What else would they do then?

They are in Formula-E now already and its not like they can go mad spending there as there is limits to how much the teams can spend. I suppose they could come up with new technology for it do.
How about Mercedes in Moto GP lol.

Depends on their advertising calculations. It's likely that the shine has gone winning all the time. They might be on to a hiding to nothing where they win the championships and nobody cares but if they fail to win then it's news that they ballsed it up. Might calculate that it's just not a good time to spend so much on f1.

There were rumours of their interest in pulling out before the pandemic. They can't be more interested in staying now.

Who knows?

rock22

Mercedes Benz are really only in F1 , this time, for about 10 years. And even then, it is not really integrated into their larger business, they simply bought an existing UK team. The team has remained that, based in UK and Daimler now own only about 60%.

It is hard to see what more value Daimler can extract from F1 . But being associated with a sport based on ICE might be a big negative when they want to promote electric vehicles. Like other German based motor companies , they will probably end up with some German Government funding and that will be linked to a switch to electric vehicles.

Already Toto Wolf is associated with Aston Martin and it is possible to see the team continuing with that name . Were Daimler to sell its stake , or even 20 % to Aston Martin/Stroll/Wolff.

GarIT

Mercedes have said they only every budgeted or planned for 6 years in F1 but the program was much more successful than anticipated. They said that they had become a brand that was only driven by elderly gentlemen and their F1 involvement has made them a popular and sporty brand favoured by young people again. I don't think that's the case but anyway. They have said they estimated they have profited 4 billion from their F1 team, including advertising value. And that is why they are staying.

That all makes sense and if those are their reasons they might actually stay

GarIT

GarIT wrote: »

Mercedes have said they only every budgeted or planned for 6 years in F1 but the program was much more successful than anticipated. They said that they had become a brand that was only driven by elderly gentlemen and their F1 involvement has made them a popular and sporty brand favoured by young people again. I don't think that's the case but anyway. They have said they estimated they have profited 4 billion from their F1 team, including advertising value. And that is why they are staying.

That all makes sense and if those are their reasons they might actually stay

I'd think the change in road car design is what's changed their market. The new A Class for example is a stunning looking yoke.

Santan

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/52462003

Not great at the anagram but from memory was very surprised I got 22

tipp_tipp_tipp

Santan wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/52462003

Not great at the anagram but from memory was very surprised I got 22

Thanks for that, good fun. manged to get all of them.

The one that really surprised me was nick heidfeld, had completely forgotten about his 1 and only pole position

El_Duderino 09

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

Thanks for that, good fun. manged to get all of them.

The one that really surprised me was nick heidfeld, had completely forgotten about his 1 and only pole position

Yeah really good. Also got them all.

I got sick of guessing the name spelling so once I thought of one I goolgled his name

Got 22 without the anagrams so was fairly happy. Forgot the 2 BMWs til I saw the anagrams.

rock22

GarIT wrote: »

Mercedes have said they only every budgeted or planned for 6 years in F1 but the program was much more successful than anticipated. They said that they had become a brand that was only driven by elderly gentlemen and their F1 involvement has made them a popular and sporty brand favoured by young people again. I don't think that's the case but anyway. They have said they estimated they have profited 4 billion from their F1 team, including advertising value. And that is why they are staying.

That all makes sense and if those are their reasons they might actually stay

I believe you are correct as to why Mercedes entered F1. But that no longer applies. New, younger, customers are looking to cleaner cars and see the electric car as the motor sport as the populated by "elderly gentlemen".

At the same time, Renault are closing a factory near Paris that is seen as an iconic and historic part of French motor industry and is also getting state aid to continue. Macron has said he wants to see French motor industry at the centre of electric car production. It would suggest that there would be some pressure for Renault to focus on electric car racing rather than on there F1 team , which again, like Mercedes, is UK based .

It is of course possible that F1 itself will switch to electric power and join the electric revolution. After all it has embraced the hybrid technology so it could change again.

H3llR4iser

Harika wrote: »

Typically Mercedes, winning a championship to death, raising budget levels and then pissing off. Hello ITC, DTM, gt1

True, the history is there for everybody to see, but it's also a common situation for racing series that start chasing "direct manufacturers involvement" like F1 has been doing for the last two decades. It's not by chance that the more interesting races happened at times when most teams were privateers with various levels of support from an engine builder.