Formula 1 2020 - General Discussion Thread (See MOD warning on first post)

quokula

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

There was strong opposition to it in these threads. I wonder if those posters are still opposed to it or even if they remember being opposed to it.

A lot of the opposition was also around imagined scenarios that drivers wouldn't be able to get out of upside down cars, or would be trapped in burning cars, as if the FIA hadn't considered those situations in the design. Kind of ironic that those theories were thoroughly disproved in this race too.

Not that those arguments were ever really strong, they were just attempts to justify resistance to change and prioritising aesthetics over safety.

Faugheen

Grosjean himself admitted he was opposed to it.

As far as I know it was Vettel who was the main driver lobbying for it to be implemented.

El_Duderino 09

Faugheen wrote: »

Grosjean himself admitted he was opposed to it.

As far as I know it was Vettel who was the main driver lobbying for it to be implemented.

Max was opposed but I remember him saying Lewis was opposed in public (because it was popular to be opposed) but supportive in the private drivers’ meetings for the safety aspect.

recyclebin

I think a lot of people would have preferred an aero screen device back when the debate was raging. Grosjean was still lucky to be able to get out. He could have easily been trapped if the barrier had stuck over the halo. I hope they mandate better barriers for next season.

AMKC

recyclebin wrote: »

I think a lot of people would have preferred an aero screen device back when the debate was raging. Grosjean was still lucky to be able to get out. He could have easily been trapped if the barrier had stuck over the halo. I hope they mandate better barriers for next season.

Imagine if had of been on Aero Screen instead of the Halo on the cars then I think Grosjean would have came out worse with the aero screen in that crash.

Harika

AMKC wrote: »

Imagine if had of been on Aero Screen instead of the Halo on the cars then I think Grosjean would have came out worse with the aero screen in that crash.

Depending on the helmet and angle but no doubt overall the halo helped him more.

Harika

Let's talk business, video footage was everywhere CNN, political commentator on Twitter, guardian front-page etc. Great reach

quokula

recyclebin wrote: »

I think a lot of people would have preferred an aero screen device back when the debate was raging. Grosjean was still lucky to be able to get out. He could have easily been trapped if the barrier had stuck over the halo. I hope they mandate better barriers for next season.

Yeah the aero screen was popular, but it basically wasn't strong enough under the loads when the FIA tested it. They had specific requirements and the design couldn't meet them without breaking. I remember a lot of talk about using the Halo "for now" and revisiting with a stronger screen in a year or two, but that seems to have mostly been forgotten about once there'd been a few races with the Halo and people stopped being bothered by the aesthetics.

Absolutely agree on the barrier though, that was the ultimate cause of the problem. The halo did its job in being the last resort and saving the driver's life when other safety measures failed, but it should never have been needed if the barrier had functioned properly.

It made me pretty uncomfortable that they just replaced it with concrete blocks when restarting the race too, no idea what a similar incident into those would have looked like - the car wouldn't have gone through them in the same way of course but the g-force of the initial impact would have been absolutely enormous.

duploelabs

recyclebin wrote: »

I think a lot of people would have preferred an aero screen device back when the debate was raging. Grosjean was still lucky to be able to get out. He could have easily been trapped if the barrier had stuck over the halo. I hope they mandate better barriers for next season.

I'd say they will find some excuse not to install them in Monaco as they're pretty much on both sides of the circuit throughout

Frank Bullitt

ELM327

Jordan 199 wrote: »

I can't see Hulkenberg going to Haas.

'Twas but a joke, Realistically it was likely to be either of the test drivers or Kubica, as they are in the ferrari family.

weisses

quokula wrote: »

A lot of the opposition was also around imagined scenarios that drivers wouldn't be able to get out of upside down cars, or would be trapped in burning cars, as if the FIA hadn't considered those situations in the design. Kind of ironic that those theories were thoroughly disproved in this race too.

Not that those arguments were ever really strong, they were just attempts to justify resistance to change and prioritising aesthetics over safety.

In regards to the HALO I find both Stroll an Hulkenbergs situations where they were upside down a bit worrying Hulk hung there for 3 minutes before being helped by Marshalls ... Stroll had trouble enough getting out yesterday and imagine that car being buried in the grass or the gravel ?

Dont get me wrong .. the HALO saved lives

RunningFlyer

Absolutely stunning how he walked away from that crash. It will be an interesting report to read when a full investigation has been carried out, for such a variety of previously unthinkable things to happen at once.

Thankfully Grosjean walked to tell the tale, and the sport will learn from the accident, but I also hope it instills a bit of humility in some of the younger drivers. To me it seems some of the younger stars act somewhat complacent with all the jokes on twitch/Instagram/Team radio etc and this might bring them back to earth a little bit. For example, Lando commenting that the Marshall who ran across the track in front of him was “very brave” sounded like he was almost trying to make a joke of it. I’ve no doubt if that had happened in front of the likes of Lewis/Seb/Kimi etc the reaction would have been very different.

chicorytip

weisses wrote: »

In regards to the HALO I find both Stroll an Hulkenbergs situations where they were upside down a bit worrying Hulk hung there for 3 minutes before being helped by Marshalls ... Stroll had trouble enough getting out yesterday and imagine that car being buried in the grass or the gravel ?

Dont get me wrong .. the HALO saved lives

The HALO is an asset in situations like that, not a liability. It makes the inverted vehicle more balanced in the sense of preventing the front end from pointing downward which better enables the driver to extricate himself, even unaided, which Stroll managed yesterday.

El_Duderino 09

Tzardine wrote: »

Yeah its quick of course, but given the role of the car you would imagine that they would take the absolute quickest available.

A Panamera Turbo S Estate is more powerful and supposedly handles better. Why not have one of them?

Do Mercedes sponsor the FIA i wonder. Safety car also a merc of course. Same argument applies, many faster and more suitable safety cars out there.

It’s surely an an advertising decision like everything else in f1. If they wanted a more suitable car then it would look similar to an F1 car but much more stable and could keep some kind of pace with the pack on the first lap. First lap is considerably slower than a fast lap due to the field bunching.

It’s the same with the safety car. They are limited by the speed of the safety car which has direct effect on the tyre and break temps. But it’s a sponsorship deal for Mercedes at the moment, an opportunity to advertise one of their sports cars.

There’s absolutely no need for a physical safety car at all. They could set the lead driver a time and the field could bunch behind them.

donspeekinglesh

Good read on barrier safely here: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/bahrain-barrier-behaved-exactly-as-it-was-supposed-to-says-circuit-designer

chopperbyrne

Still absolutely insane that Perez has no drive for next year.

recyclebin

donspeekinglesh wrote: »

Good read on barrier safely here: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/bahrain-barrier-behaved-exactly-as-it-was-supposed-to-says-circuit-designer

Zaffelli doesn't seem to take criticism very well in that article. It's clear that those barriers are not as safe as he says they are. Their is plenty of room for a Tecpro barrier there. It's also at turn three so likely so see a lot of cars bunch up around there at the start of a race.

SureYWouldntYa

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Still absolutely insane that Perez has no drive for next year.

Pre engine going poof I found it funny how he was likely to finish the season in 4th, behind only Mercs and Max

And was racing in 3rd, at a distance to Hamilton where he could have helped Max strategy wise

The best thing for everybody involved would be Albon to Alpha Tauri with Gasly, Perez to RB, and Tsunoda to stay in F2 as well and long term will give everyone the best chance

Ironically Perez himself is proof that a driver shouldn't be defined by a bad season when promoted too young when he was at McLaren in 2013

El_Duderino 09

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Still absolutely insane that Perez has no drive for next year.

It is when you consider that he’s also a pay driver. He’s not a future world champion but he’s better than the average pay driver, that much is certain. I suspect he’ll be back even if he has to take a year out but the options at the front are limited. I’d say he might prefer to be competitive in another formula than muck about at Williams.

AMKC

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It is when you consider that he’s also a pay driver. He’s not a future world champion but he’s better than the average pay driver, that much is certain. I suspect he’ll be back even if he has to take a year out but the options at the front are limited. I’d say he might prefer to be competitive in another formula than muck about at Williams.

Well he certainly ain't going to William's anyway because they have confirmed Latife and Russel for next year so maybe Haas but like William's I doubt he would go there so I think Perez will either go to Red Bull or he will take a year out and hope to get a drive in 2022.

This is it

Isn't the 2nd Red Bull seat the only seat available on the grid, unofficially?

El_Duderino 09

AMKC wrote: »

Well he certainly ain't going to William's anyway because they have confirmed Latife and Russel for next year so maybe Haas but like William's I doubt he would go there so I think Perez will either go to Red Bull or he will take a year out and hope to get a drive in 2022.

Yeah but I was referring to 2022 if he doesn’t get the red bull seat this year. I don’t think he’s interested in going to the back of the grid. Maybe a Renault seat with Alonso, instead of Ocon? Unless Haas buck their ideas up, I don’t think he’ll go there. And maybe Russell will be at Merc in 2022 so there might be a seat (or 2) at Williams but I don’t think he’s interested.

Maybe things will change but i get the impression he wants to fight at the front in f1 or fight at the front in another formula.

SMC92Ian

I don't think Perez and Hulk will be back, it's just too hard to get in. Also how will this effect the Mexican GP?

PopePalpatine

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I don't think Perez and Hulk will be back, it's just too hard to get in. Also how will this effect the Mexican GP?

Brave of you to assume that it'll survive COVID.

Either way, it's dead. IIRC there aren't any Mexicans in F2/F3, and there's no way Gutierrez is coming back. Pato O'Ward in IndyCar could be an outside bet, but I remember him propping up the timesheets when he was in F2 a couple of years ago.

pjohnson

Technically Lewis and Lance havent had the confirmation of their 2021 seats nor have Haas officially confirmed theres but yeah the only realistic vacancy is beside Max at RB.

I've seen Albon mentioned for AlphaTauri recently but that doesnt seem to have much behind it and most journalists seem to believe Alpha will run Gasly with Tsunoda and if Tsunoda fails to get the superlicense they just retain Kvyat.

Albon is against Perez for the RB seat and Hulkenberg expected to miss out.

quokula

Gintonious wrote: »

I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but it seems strange to me that by design the fuel tank stays with the safety cell rather than with the power unit when the car splits.

SMC92Ian

PopePalpatine wrote: »

Brave of you to assume that it'll survive COVID.

Either way, it's dead. IIRC there aren't any Mexicans in F2/F3, and there's no way Gutierrez is coming back. Pato O'Ward in IndyCar could be an outside bet, but I remember him propping up the timesheets when he was in F2 a couple of years ago.

I hope it sticks around, I love the track.

Harika

SMC92Ian wrote: »

I hope it sticks edaround, I love the track.

Austria has no driver in a decade and race is still going. Maybe not the best example with red bull but I think to have a local driver is beneficial not crucial.

Wanderer78

OSI wrote:

Hamilton tested positive for COVID-19 so almost certain to miss last 2 races.

This confirmed?