Cash only shops

54and56

easypazz wrote: »

Works fine until the card machine doesnt work some day.

But I did get the concept, not having to worry about cash being stolen and carrying a heap of coin etc.

Hardly the biggest challenge to overcome, just take cash while the app/device/internet isn't working!!

Berserker5

54and56 wrote: »

Hardly the biggest challenge to overcome, just take cash while the app/device/internet isn't working!!

How would you do it!!

54and56

Berserker5 wrote: »

How would you do it!!

Well you'd obviously first of all have to get some top 4 consultants in to develop a contingency plan and having written 4 versions and tested its robustness the contingency plan would be adopted by the coffee stall board of directors who would instruct the stall CEO that in the event of a problem with the tap and go machine he/she is to revert to the old analogue system of putting cash in his/her pocket/apron on a temporary basis whilst the tap and go outage was escalated to level 1 support for accelerated resolution.

Pauliedragon

Deebles McBeebles wrote: »

This thread begs the question (to me, after a quick skim, anyway), why don't we have any traveller cuisine restaurants?

Eating my sister wouldn't appeal to me I know that much.:P

Blitzkrieger

BuboBubo wrote: »

Are the card machines expensive? I've been given that excuse in shops a few times.

Very late reply and this will probably be buried, but yes. A lot of merchant services providers charge you rent for the machine, VAT on the rent for the machine, and gouge you for a percentage of each transaction. There's different payment models from different companies - some are aimed at a small amount of big transactions and some at a large amount of small transactions, but despite what it costs to operate with cash, it is expensive, and tough to justify the cost on small transactions.

I couldn't believe how difficult it is to even get the costs from the providers. In this day and age we're used to comparing prices on the Internet and selecting the best deal for us. The providers almost never disclose their actual rates on the Internet - you make an inquiry and a sales person will try and swindle you into taking their deal. One provider wouldn't even tell me their ****ing rates. Three times I asked, and even gave an example of a quote I got from a competitor and they wouldn't answer. They kept asking for a face to face meeting like they were going to Jedi mind trick me or something. I haven't got time for that bull**** and suspect their price was higher than the competition anyway....

easypazz

54and56 wrote: »

Hardly the biggest challenge to overcome, just take cash while the app/device/internet isn't working!!

Would all your customers be carrying cash though? Lots of people don't bother any more.

You would still have to maintain a cash float, so if somebody presented with cash only would you not take cash and card?

54and56

easypazz wrote: »

Would all your customers be carrying cash though? Lots of people don't bother any more.

The question was in the context of a card only coffee stall having a payment terminal outage. Given the small transaction values and fixed cost nature of the business (rent of the pitch and staff wages or most of the days staff wages will be incurred regardless) it would make sense to open and take cash from those customers who do happen to have cash. I'd also advocate, if it was my business, that any regulars who didn't have cash could be given a days credit and trusted to pay for two coffees the following day when the payment service is back up and running. Customers, especially those who receive a good product/service, are more trustworthy than people generally think e.g. the honesty boxes for paying for water at airports and newspapers at Easons etc.

easypazz wrote: »

You would still have to maintain a cash float, so if somebody presented with cash only would you not take cash and card?

During a card outage in a card only coffee stall you wouldn't have to maintain a float to be able to take cash. The first few customers may have to pay the exact €3 or whatever for their coffee and if they didn't have the exact change they'd either have to be given discount, given credit (as above) or they'd leave the change you can't give them as a tip. After that you'd have built up a float and would be in business for the day.

easypazz

54and56 wrote: »

During a card outage in a card only coffee stall you wouldn't have to maintain a float to be able to take cash. The first few customers may have to pay the exact €3 or whatever for their coffee and if they didn't have the exact change they'd either have to be given discount, given credit (as above) or they'd leave the change you can't give them as a tip. After that you'd have built up a float and would be in business for the day.

Assuming they all have coins to begin with, and lots of people don't nowadays. So its off to an ATM which only dispenses notes, and then your concept of building a float as you go is fubar.

I accept that with a regular clientele they may be worthy of credit but Ealing Broadway is a railway station with perhaps a very transient customer base.

msmx5

I have to say that I find tap and go using google pay is quicker than a cash transaction in most cases now, especially if you don't want a paper receipt. (in most cases I'm happy with the electronic record in google pay). Chip-n-pin transactions take a bit longer but tap and go works very smoothly now in most cases - even in traditionally busy environments (like a pub) where a barman might have previously thrown his eyes to heaven if asked to pay by card - there is no back and forth to a till with cash and change (assuming there is good connectivity/internet/wifi the terminals approve transactions very quickly).

Its amazing how widespread electronic payments are now with many market stalls accepting cards via various types of new terminals connected to phones.

I know the thread specifically references "Cash only" shops and my daughter came across one of these in Dalkey recently, she ordered coffee and a scone and when she went to pay they had no machine - told her to drop the money in next time she was passing. I googled reviews of the coffee shop and about 40% of the comments mentioned that the staff were "sound" for allowing them to "drop the money in next time". Good reviews mind you but in this day it can't make good business sense.

The first totally cashless venue I came across was Twickenham stadium in 2018 where everywhere was card only.
Have a look at this article for some interesting background... GOING CASHLESS: BENEFITS AND PAYBACK one major benefit of non cash transactions is that it more or less eliminates theft by employees.

Most bars at the RDS for a Leinster Rugby games now operate separate Cash Only and Card Only sections - little difference in the speed of getting served.

Cash only establishments will become less common but cash will never go away completely - electronic transactions are here to stay, like it or not.

Darc19

54and56 wrote: »

They don't need any excuses. Cash is legal tender. Cards aren't. Businesses must accept legal tender, there's no obligation to accept cards and no compulsion to explain why you don't.

IMHO cash only businesses are almost all cheating PAYE, VAT and Corp Tax.

Incorrect.

You need to understand what legal tender is.

Only where a debt exists, does legal tender come into the situation.

A retail transaction is an agreed exchange.

A shop can refuse to take cash. A shop can also legally refuse to give change too. (they'd be out of business very quickly though)

54and56

Darc19 wrote: »

Incorrect.

You need to understand what legal tender is.

Only where a debt exists, does legal tender come into the situation.

A retail transaction is an agreed exchange.

A shop can refuse to take cash. A shop can also legally refuse to give change too. (they'd be out of business very quickly though)

Ok, point taken ref there being no requirement for a shop to accept cash but my point was in response to a comment about how a cash only shop would explain why it only took cash and not cards.

Cash is the only form of legal tender so there should be no question mark over why it is accepted and conversely cards are not legal tender and require trust in the banking system so shop owners should not be questioned or challenged by Rev Comm as to why they don't accept them, it's entirely their perogative.

Having said that IMHO the correlation between cash only (or predominantly cash) businesses and businesses which fiddle the tax system via under declaration of income, facilitating dole cheating by paying wages in cash etc is very high and much higher than businesses who accept cards and put all their transactions through EPOS or similar systems.

TLDR; Not all businesses that fiddle tax are cash only businesses but all cash only businesses fiddle tax.

silver2020

54and56 wrote: »

Cash is the only form of legal tender so there should be no question mark over why it is accepted and conversely cards are not legal tender and require trust in the banking system so shop owners should not be questioned or challenged by Rev Comm as to why they don't accept them, it's entirely their perogative.

Having said that IMHO the correlation between cash only (or predominantly cash) businesses and businesses which fiddle the tax system via under declaration of income, facilitating dole cheating by paying wages in cash etc is very high and much higher than businesses who accept cards and put all their transactions through EPOS or similar systems.

TLDR; Not all businesses that fiddle tax are cash only businesses but all cash only businesses fiddle tax.

The phrase Legal Tender has no meaning in a retail transaction.

As for fiddling - Revenue commissioners are rather clever.

#1 - you must keep records for 6 years. If you have computerised tills, it must be able to keep 6 years of records. If you do not keep the records, the penalties are extremely severe and implemented.

#2 - Revenue use "averaging" and industry knowledge. they know what a business should be taking in and if it does not match, that business is watched.

#3 Correlation. They cross reference invoices from suppliers with payments a nd can investigate a supplier's records. Again, if it does not add up, they will make assumptions - and those assumptions are always on the high side.

Yes, there will always be fiddling going on, but its not near as widespread as some may think as the penalties are very severe

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Cash in shops is faster than waiting for a machine to authorize a debit card, much prefer cash.

Waiting for change?

riclad

I can,t think of a brick and mortar shop that could survive on just credit cards customers ,
a lot of people do not use credit cards at all.
it may not make sense for a small shop to take credit cards,
they pay a fee to use a card on each transaction .
they have to install equipment to handle cc cards .

54and56

There will always be cash and there will always be (a declining) number of both people and shops who insist on only dealing in cash but the macro trend is not something any retail business should ignore if it wants to thrive.

easypazz

riclad wrote: »

I can,t think of a brick and mortar shop that could survive on just credit cards customers ,
a lot of people do not use credit cards at all.
it may not make sense for a small shop to take credit cards,
they pay a fee to use a card on each transaction .
they have to install equipment to handle cc cards .

They also pay a fee to get coin off a bank and to deposit notes back to the bank.

And they often have to drive to the bank to deposit cash.

It won't be long costing more than a machine would.

If you don't have a machine, but the other shop nearby does, then its to the shop with a machine people who don't have cash in their pocket will go.

You simply must have a machine if you are serious about your business.

riclad

I,m not talking about hair salon,s or large shop,s .
i think a chipper or a small shop can operate just using cash,
if you want tech bro,s or yuppies as customers you will need to take credit cards.
I Hope we do not end up like china,in 10 years , its very hard to buy anything in china without using an app on a smartphone.

freshpopcorn

I've worked in a shop in a city centre and town in the past few months.
There is a difference
In the city you'd get loads of card payments and people paying with there phones.
In the town you'd get nearly all cash payments and the card payments you get are generally people who work in the city during the week. I don't think I've ever seen somebody paying with there phone.

easypazz

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I've worked in a shop in a city centre and town in the past few months.
There is a difference
In the city you'd get loads of card payments and people paying with there phones.
In the town you'd get nearly all cash payments and the card payments you get are generally people who work in the city during the week. I don't think I've ever seen somebody paying with there phone.

And 5 years ago it was probably the same ratio in the city as it is in the country town now.

There is a lag but the trend is only going one way.

Somebody made a good point about chippers and takeaways, very few of them take card.

Chancer3001

paying with card for petrol.....tank is full at 44.56eur......hmmm, id better round it up to 45euro.

makes no sense but I do it every single time

easypazz

Chancer3001 wrote: »

paying with card for petrol.....tank is full at 44.56eur......hmmm, id better round it up to 45euro.

makes no sense but I do it every single time

can you hit 45.00 every time?

That's the challenge in doing it.

shmeee

Ended up on a booze in Lisdoonvarna recently, no ATM in the town, cash only. And the Local Hotel would give you cash back if you paid a 5er "fee", so €100 cost €105.

Klare, rare as it comes sure!

AulWan

Chancer3001 wrote: »

paying with card for petrol.....tank is full at 44.56eur......hmmm, id better round it up to 45euro.

makes no sense but I do it every single time

I've switched to a petrol station where they have pay at the pump with your card. It is so much handier and faster then having to go in a queue up to pay for petrol.

Frees up the pump quicker for the next customer too.

maccydoodies

My GP surgery who is part of a chain of 3 surgeries doesn't take card in any of them. The girl that comes to my house to do my nails does. Go figure.

Berserker5

easypazz wrote: »

And 5 years ago it was probably the same ratio in the city as it is in the country town now.

There is a lag but the trend is only going one way.

Somebody made a good point about chippers and takeaways, very few of them take card.

Lads getting takeaways and half hour trying to pay with card pissed drunk

AndrewJRenko

AulWan wrote: »

I've switched to a petrol station where they have pay at the pump with your card. It is so much handier and faster then having to go in a queue up to pay for petrol.

Frees up the pump quicker for the next customer too.

Tesco had these about ten years ago, but took them away. I guess they really want to get you into the shop to spend more, as the margins on the fuel itself are pretty tight.

AulWan

Berserker5 wrote: »

Lads getting takeaways and half hour trying to pay with card pissed drunk

Half an hour? I think you are exaggerating, just a little!

Nigel Fairservice

I'm in Sweden at the moment. I've seen shops here with signs saying cash not accepted. You'd never see that in Ireland!

Dav010

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I'm in Sweden at the moment. I've seen shops here with signs saying cash not accepted. You'd never see that in Ireland!

I was in Japan recently, one of the most technologically advanced countries on earth, most shops, restaurants, pubs and taxis do not take cards, cash only.

partyguinness

Dav010 wrote: »

I was in Japan recently, one of the most technologically advanced countries on earth, most shops, restaurants, pubs and taxis do not take cards, cash only.

I was in Rotterdam last year and a good few places did not take card and those that did not take VISA- only Mastercard. We only learnt this in the pubs. My Dutch BIL said that VISA is not popular for whatever reason.