Advice needed (she wants kids, I don't - title edited by mod)

lainey_d_123

leggo wrote: »

Right, but she’s texted him saying she’s leaving it. So regardless of the people you may know, on the issue we’re discussing she’s stated she’s not interested in pursuing it and stated his inability to decide whether he wants kids as the reason.

And yet you've come up with a list of faults and flaws pretty much out of thin air, which isn't particularly helpful.

Maybe he isn't too intense, or too laissez-faire, or unsuccessful with women. Perhaps she just got the vibe that he isn't quite in the right place in life to start a family within the next year or two or perhaps she just isn't that into him and it's a handy excuse.

The point is that there isn't anything inherently wrong or strange about falling for someone quickly and making life plans with them, especially well into your thirties.

leggo

Right. But you don’t know whether that’s the case or not, so I’m throwing stuff out there and the OP can decide for themselves what they take from this. Also just because you find it okay to start making life plans with someone you’ve met twice doesn’t mean that other people won’t find it intense. It’s okay for people to get introspective and take moments like this to evaluate and learn lessons. That’s how we grow and improve. You may be sensitive and find constructive feedback that doesn’t just validate you unhelpful, others may see it differently and the OP specifically came on here and asked for thoughts.

You don’t need to hijack another thread to argue with me, I wasn’t talking to you and this isn’t your thread. I don’t know you, I don’t have an issue with you, so can we drop the back-and-forths please? There’s no need and people are coming on here looking for help. I apologise if me disagreeing with you in the other thread upset you, that wasn’t my intention. But please leave me alone now.

Hey, figured I'd check back in. Cheers for all the advice. Just to clear up a few things. I don't think I was being particularly intense with this woman, just that she was someone I felt a lot of chemistry with(after a long string of dates that were just.. Meh), I certainly wasn't making life long plans hence the subject of this thread. To be honest most of what I've heard here seems re-iterate what I probably already knew deep down - that this scenario is not going to have a happy ending. I'm going to chalk this down to experience and move on. Thanks for the advice posters!

Skibunny77

As a then 37 year old woman, when I met my now husband, I told him early on that I hoped to have children. He was widowed with children and hesitated but said the door wasn't closed for him for possibly having more children. That was all I needed to know, that he was open to the possibility down the line. I can think of countless couples who had the same discussion early on, then went onto to enjoy their relationship. It was another two years before we discussed having kids again as we were enjoying life with one another, I couldn't have stayed in it wondering how he would feel about kids two years into it. Instead, we had a brief check in to see that we were somewhat on the same page and then parked it until we were in a far more committed and serious relationship . Op, I think this woman sounds like she wants to be with someone open to possibilities. You're clearly not, she did you both a favour by being clear on what she wants.

Hi, original poster here. Figured I'd give ye an update. So a week after this thread she got in contact with me..asked me out for a drink, had a great night, and went out for 2 further dates before Christmas. She seemed really in to me, messaging that she liked me etc, didn't bring up the kids issue. We went to our respective homeplaces for Christmas but stayed in contact, we made plans to see each other in the new year, but when I got in contact with her she brought up the kids thing and how she wants to meet someone who wants to have kids soon and that we should instead be just friends!!!
Anyways I told her that I wasn't interested in being just friends and that we can leave it at that and then low behold she gets back in contact saying she doesn't know what she wants. Any advice greatly appreciated

Telly

Time to move on. She’s trying to hook you in the hope she’ll change your mind about kids. Walk away.

Honeydew3456

She has been consistent since you met her that she wants kids.

She definitely still wants kids. Saying she doesn't know what she wants is probably due to the pressures she is feeling over it right now. Facing her next birthday this year etc.

So are you prepared to start making babies with her in the next couple of months?

If yes, then you have your answer.

How's the chemistry now after the 3 more dates, can you see you guys working well together to raise a baby?

Eire Go Brach

Sounds like she feels her biological clock is ticking. Sounds a bit desperate to be honest.

It’s going to be a bit of a gamble. Might work out. But looks like it won’t be giving the time to fall in love as having babies are the priority. Could end up being very messy and not fair on kids.

wiggle16

I don't think there's any further advice to be given other than to walk away and let her go.

She does know what she wants. She wants children and she wants to meet someone to have children with.

I don't think she wants to "hook" you like an above poster is saying, that's not fair to say I don't think. It sounds like she is conflicted over whether or not you're worth walking away from, but she does want to have kids and she's having a hard time being comfortable with that choice. Just like you are having a hard time letting her go even though you know you want different things.

You know what she wants, OP, and you know you're not the person who can give it to her. If you go ahead with this you'd both be doing it under false pretences and it's fair on neither of you.

Tell her it won't work because she wants children and you don't, you feel too strongly about her to be friends, wish her well and let her go. Anything else is a bad idea.

leggo

Agree with the above. Also it’s not surprising that the reunion happened at Christmas and the change of heart in the New Year. I don’t even mean that she did it cynically or intentionally, but it’s tough going into Christmas feeling alone when there’s someone you like right there, the heart can play tricks on the mind and she probably talked herself around for the sake of that comfort and familiarity. But then that mindset changes as we head into New Year season and you start to think about the future and what you want life to be, and then she likely came back to kids. I know it’s not much comfort but that at least makes sense of what probably feels like total mixed messages at least.

bilbot79

Arian Shapely Spoon wrote: »

Hi, original poster here. Figured I'd give ye an update. So a week after this thread she got in contact with me..asked me out for a drink, had a great night, and went out for 2 further dates before Christmas. She seemed really in to me, messaging that she liked me etc, didn't bring up the kids issue. We went to our respective homeplaces for Christmas but stayed in contact, we made plans to see each other in the new year, but when I got in contact with her she brought up the kids thing and how she wants to meet someone who wants to have kids soon and that we should instead be just friends!!!
Anyways I told her that I wasn't interested in being just friends and that we can leave it at that and then low behold she gets back in contact saying she doesn't know what she wants. Any advice greatly appreciated

Yes. Same advice as before. Have kids or move on, don't waste that poor girls one chance in life just to get your end away

Antares35

For what it is worth, advice from a 36 year old woman who knew early on she wanted kids. It might have been early to bring the topic up (I might not have that early) however I commend her honesty and at least she is up front about what she wants. Women do have a narrow window within which to have children, and so if she is certain she wants a family, then it makes sense for her not to waste valuable time with someone who does not. In the end, having kids is not something either party should compromise on i.e. if she wants them she should be able to have them and if he doesnt then he shouldn't be forced to. She wasnt asking you to have kids straight away, but to know where you stood on it. If I was dating someone at 35 who wasnt sure about having kids I would definitely think twice about continuing with it.

My OH is 37 and I'm 36. We are together over a year and are expecting our first baby in May. As far as I recall we had that conversation fairly early on, though not on the second date! I hope it all works out for you and that you get what you want from it.

Edit and for those posters saying with certainty that women at that age are panicking and dont have their sh$t together, you should realise that times are different now. Women (and men) put off long term relationships for longer because they are busy trying to educate themselves and furthering their careers not to mention trying to get to a financially viable position- all of which are responsible things to have in place before procreation I would think. Just because a 35 year old woman is childless does not mean she had been simply dating the wrong people. Assuming that a woman wo has possibly spent years climbing the career ladder etc is simply a desperate person looking for a guys swimmer does many women a disservice. Its actually not easy to become accomplished financially and professionally while trying to keep an eye on the fertility window which is simply a fact of life.

Heres Johnny

Advice from a man about same age as you... Can you see yourself raising a child with this woman? If not, save yourselves both some heartache and leave it. She wants to get pregnant, soon. And that's her right, I commend her for being honest with you and not accidentally getting pregnsnt....she also sounds like she wants a partner in this, so it's a family she wants and not just a child.

If you can see yourself as a dad, then go for it, she sounds like she likes you and you like her...

Jimmy Bottlehead

Good advice above. If you want kids, stick with it and be prepared for them sooner rather than later. If you don't want them or are unsure, let her go find someone who does want them.

Also, if you're still sexually intimate with her, there is the possibility of an 'accidental' baby happening. Something to keep in mind.

PARlance

Arian Shapely Spoon wrote: »

Hi, original poster here. Figured I'd give ye an update. So a week after this thread she got in contact with me..asked me out for a drink, had a great night, and went out for 2 further dates before Christmas. She seemed really in to me, messaging that she liked me etc, didn't bring up the kids issue. We went to our respective homeplaces for Christmas but stayed in contact, we made plans to see each other in the new year, but when I got in contact with her she brought up the kids thing and how she wants to meet someone who wants to have kids soon and that we should instead be just friends!!!
Anyways I told her that I wasn't interested in being just friends and that we can leave it at that and then low behold she gets back in contact saying she doesn't know what she wants. Any advice greatly appreciated

She is panicking about having kids. Posters can say that it's her prerogative to be so upfront but let's not be fooled, she's in a complete panic.

You've been on 5 dates. She mentioned wanting kids in the near future, after the 2nd date. She then tried to press the issue after 5 dates/ less than 3 months. When see realised she lost you, she realised it might be better to stick with you because she could be faced with another 3,6,9 etc months before the next 2nd date.

She's panicking, that's understandable, but it's more than understandable that you will want more time to get to know someone before picking colours for the baby's room.

If I was you I would consider myself as having 2 options.

1. Tell her you are aware of her situation but let her know yours. Your situation being (that of most normal people) of wanting to go on more than a handful of dates before making such a life changing commitment. Suggest putting a time frame on your dating / you making this huge commitment. A further six months dating should be sufficient and a compromise.

2. Run. Run again.

I would probably go for 2 but if you go down the route of 1, only do so if you think there's a chance you really could be ready to start trying for kids straight away after that. Don't mess her around in that sense.

I think it's obvious that she's looking for a father first and foremost. A father who also fills the role of partner. I would be dubious of that situation. You'll probably be in for 6 months of mindblowing sex and good times if you both agree to give it six months before the P day decision.

Successful relationships have been built on less and relationships built on years and years of love have fallen apart shortly after kids.

But it would be option 2 for me. I wouldn't be comfortable being forced into such a quick decision and I would be skeptical that her determination to have a child may cause changes in behaviour that may not be representative of the true her. But I'm a skeptic.

lainey_d_123

PARlance wrote: »

She is panicking about having kids. Posters can say that it's her prerogative to be so upfront but let's not be fooled, she's in a complete panic.

You've been on 5 dates. She mentioned wanting kids in the near future, after the 2nd date. She then tried to press the issue after 5 dates/ less than 3 months. When see realised she lost you, she realised it might be better to stick with you because she could be faced with another 3,6,9 etc months before the next 2nd date.

It's totally normal and reasonable for a woman in her mid to late thirties to check whether someone is open to having kids or not. As much as people seem to love insisting that it's weird bunny boiler behaviour, it's literally a box to check on a lot of the dating sites. She cannot afford to date someone for a year and see how things go and then have that person turn around and say they don't want kids. If she's 37 now she might be looking to start trying in a year's time with the right person. She cannot afford to waste a year on the wrong person. Full stop. You might dislike the idea of someone taking charge of their life and being honest and direct, but she is 100% right to do this if having kids is a goal.

You seem to have very little understanding of how dating works if you think an attractive 37-year-old woman might wait 3,6,9 months before the next second date. She is most likely inundated with attention and options. Sounds like she really likes OP and is really hoping he'll want kids.

She's panicking, that's understandable, but it's more than understandable that you will want more time to get to know someone before picking colours for the baby's room.

If I was you I would consider myself as having 2 options.

1. Tell her you are aware of her situation but let her know yours. Your situation being (that of most normal people) of wanting to go on more than a handful of dates before making such a life changing commitment. Suggest putting a time frame on your dating / you making this huge commitment. A further six months dating should be sufficient and a compromise.

She's not asking for a commitment to have kids with her. She's asking if he's open to having them at all. I have asked all the men I've dated about this very early on, because what's the point in wasting time with someone who definitely doesn't want kids, or who has had the snip when you still want the option? And I'm someone who is quite indifferent about it. Someone who definitely 100% wants kids can't afford to wait and see down the line.

Honeydew3456

PARlance wrote: »

She is panicking about having kids.

Successful relationships have been built on less and relationships built on years and years of love have fallen apart shortly after kids.

Yes she is and fair play to her for being open with it from the start. However, I get the feeling she wants to start asap on this. Could be wrong. OP have you asked her when she sees making a start?

Does she have other potential baby daddies on the scene right now?

I have to agree.... it is a huge gamble on both their parts to take on this kind of commitment after 5 dates. That's crazy. They don't know eachother. A baby is for life. Is it fair on the child if the relationship falls apart. If it does fall apart, could they co-parent together well? Which is also a huge commitment and life altering reslonsibility.

I feel sorry for the pressure she feels under.

Honeydew3456

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

She's not asking for a commitment to have kids with her.

I think she is...hence the lets just be friends so comment.

OP do you think she is based on your conversations with her?

Honeydew3456

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You seem to have very little understanding of how dating works if you think an attractive 37-year-old woman might wait 3,6,9 months before the next second date. She is most likely inundated with attention and options.

Not sure about this. Off the top of my head I have five friends I can think off.. mid 30s, stunning, attractive, great career, well groomed, fab clothes, no emotional baggage, no kids and fab personalities. Finding it almost impossible to get decent, long lasting dates that might develop into something more long term. One is in London and one Dubai, both with a much larger pool of singles than Ireland.

lainey_d_123

Honeydew3456 wrote: »

I think she is...hence the lets just be friends so comment.

OP do you think she is based on your conversations with her?

Yes, he can't commit even *wanting* kids, ever, so of course she's not going to waste her time!

lainey_d_123

Honeydew3456 wrote: »

Not sure about this. Off the top of my head I have five friends I can think off.. mid 30s, stunning, attractive, great career, well groomed, fab clothes, no emotional baggage, no kids and fab personalities. Finding it almost impossible to get decent, long lasting dates that might develop into something more long term. One is in London and one Dubai, both with a much larger pool of singles than Ireland.

There's a massive difference between finding a long lasting relationship with someone totally compatible and getting a 2nd date. I'm sure they're not short of dates.

shesty

She wants kids OP, but I think she also really likes you.
That's what I am reading out of this.
She sounds like she is trying to decide is it worth potentially having no kids, but building a relationship with you.And will she be able to live with that herself.
I guess this one is kind of with you to be honest.Are you 100% certain of no kids with her?Because if you are, you need to keep saying it.
There isn't going to be a lightbulb moment here for you OP, you need to come down on one side of the fence or the other.
It's all very well to say oh it's only been 5 dates, but sure it's only been 5 dates to her too.Much as I dislike pointing it out, she has a window of time to consider here and she is being very upfront with you.And she's assuming things happen smoothly for her and there are no issues conceiving.
So I guess you need to make yourself clear for once and for all to her.

PARlance

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

It's totally normal and reasonable for a woman in her mid to late thirties to check whether someone is open to having kids or not. As much as people seem to love insisting that it's weird bunny boiler behaviour, it's literally a box to check on a lot of the dating sites. She cannot afford to date someone for a year and see how things go and then have that person turn around and say they don't want kids. If she's 37 now she might be looking to start trying in a year's time with the right person. She cannot afford to waste a year on the wrong person. Full stop. You might dislike the idea of someone taking charge of their life and being honest and direct, but she is 100% right to do this if having kids is a goal.

Totally normal and totally reasonable. That doesn't mean she isn't panicking about the situation either, which is to be expected as well.

In the rush to defend the sisterhood, I think you missing several key points. I'm not calling her some weird bunny boiler. I have said she is panicking and I think that's fairly obvious. It's understandable, but it's obvious. And if she wants to find someone, I would advise her to try to hide that pressure and keep it under wraps, for the first few dates at least. Not ignore it, not pretend it's not there, just be conscious that it may/will scare most potential suiters off if they get a text after date 2.

She is completely right not to want to spend a year not knowing if he wants kids or not, but there are far more subtle ways to go about it. And she will have to accept that despite the time pressure, she should at least wait a few months before really applying such pressure. This will limit the about of possible relationships she may have, but I believe it will improve her overall chance greatly.

Sure, she could have 100 dates over the next year and if she asks them all if they'll have a child with her in 12 months time.... after date 1 or 2, she'll be in the same situation in 12 months time.

You're accusing me of not understanding women, I think you're showing a complete lack of understanding of men, if you think her approach has been the correct one. Most men would run a mile if they felt such pressure after a couple of dates. There's a difference between finding out if a partner is open to kids and telling them by text after two dates, that they mightn't want them soon enough. At the very least, save it for the agenda on date 3.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

You seem to have very little understanding of how dating works if you think an attractive 37-year-old woman might wait 3,6,9 months before the next second date. She is most likely inundated with attention and options. Sounds like she really likes OP and is really hoping he'll want kids.

Believe me, I have more than I would have ever imagined I would have. My wife is 4 years my senior and we have been through this and have had all these conversations. We've 2 great kids as a result of both of us compromising and being understanding of each others wants/needs/wishes. I've also acted as a sounding board for all of her single friends as they've gone through their 30's.

If she's on tinder or likewise, yes she can be out every night of the week on dates. My wife's friends bought that t-shirt and ultimately decided that they would never find, or really struggle to find, the right person on such apps/sites. They all grew very tired of it very fast and it was not good for their mental health. They decided to let things happen more organically and they did have long periods of not dating but ultimately, all bar one, are now in relationships they had sought.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

She's not asking for a commitment to have kids with her. She's asking if he's open to having them at all. I have asked all the men I've dated about this very early on, because what's the point in wasting time with someone who definitely doesn't want kids, or who has had the snip when you still want the option? And I'm someone who is quite indifferent about it. Someone who definitely 100% wants kids can't afford to wait and see down the line.

She's very definitely asking for a commitment, she suggested just being friends with him because she didn't think he would have kids with her soon. He walked away, yet she came back. She is panicking and confused and I do feel sorry for her and understand her situation, but she is going around things the wrong way.

PARlance

And just to add, I do think that she may still be into the OP as more of a potential father than a partner because of this panic. I would still be fairly sceptical if I was the OP.

skallywag

This is a tricky one.

I can fully get where she is coming from, as fertility can really begin to fall off a cliff from 35 onwards, and even before. I actually think that there is still quite a lot of ignorance concerning this, which is not helped by stories one commonly hears concerning women in their 40s who have successfully pregnancies. Sure, it can happen, but I think that many fail to appreciate how much more difficult it is to even fall pregnant in the first place in their late 30s / early 40s, compared to say ten years prior.

Now, that said, if the topic was coming up on the second/third date, then it would certainly raise an eye brow with me. I agree fully that one needs to act sooner rather than later, but so soon? It would not sit well with me. Sure, even after a couple of months in you will usually have a fair idea as to how well ye are really suited, and you could even perhaps have a good feeling after one month, if you had a couple of dates a week.

But to be having this chat after just two dates?

lainey_d_123

PARlance wrote: »

Totally normal and totally reasonable. That doesn't mean she isn't panicking about the situation either, which is to be expected as well.

In the rush to defend the sisterhood, I think you missing several key points. I'm not calling her some weird bunny boiler. I have said she is panicking and I think that's fairly obvious. It's understandable, but it's obvious. And if she wants to find someone, I would advise her to try to hide that pressure and keep it under wraps, for the first few dates at least. Not ignore it, not pretend it's not there, just be conscious that it may/will scare most potential suiters off if they get a text after date 2.

I'm not 'defending the sisterhood', I'm pointing out that she literally does not have the time OP wants before considering kids. She just doesn't have it. And she's being honest about that. She initially rejected him because he point blank said he wouldn't even consider it for 1-2 years, and that is simply too late for her. What's the point in waiting? Sure, she could date for a few months and then ask, and what if the man tells her he's infertile or doesn't want kids, ever? Then she's wasted several months and turned down other potential partners.

I totally understand what you mean about this being off putting to a lot of men but equally, there are plenty of older men who do very much want children soon. I know a man in his late thirties who is dating with the aim of starting a family within the next year or two. Why on earth would she take the enormous risk of getting into a relationship with someone who doesn't want kids for 2 years, or possibly ever?

She is completely right not to want to spend a year not knowing if he wants kids or not, but there are far more subtle ways to go about it. And she will have to accept that despite the time pressure, she should at least wait a few months before really applying such pressure. This will limit the about of possible relationships she may have, but I believe it will improve her overall chance greatly.

If she'd been 'subtle' I'm sure people would also be complaining about her trying to trick or trap OP. I see nothing wrong at all with direct communication and laying down expectations from day one. If two people have completely conflicting life goals, it is simply not going to work. She'd be wasting her time and his. And the more time they dated and the more feelings developed, the harder it would be to break up and move on. And then one or the other would have to compromise, and probably feel resentful about it.

Sure, she could have 100 dates over the next year and if she asks them all if they'll have a child with her in 12 months time.... after date 1 or 2, she'll be in the same situation in 12 months time.

You're accusing me of not understanding women, I think you're showing a complete lack of understanding of men, if you think her approach has been the correct one. Most men would run a mile if they felt such pressure after a couple of dates. There's a difference between finding out if a partner is open to kids and telling them by text after two dates, that they mightn't want them soon enough. At the very least, save it for the agenda on date 3.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I do see your point, and I'm sure it does scare people off, but it's less 'I want to be pregnant by 1st August 2020' and 'I really need to have kids in the next year or two because I'm pushing 40...would that be something you'd be open to?'

Believe me, I have more than I would have ever imagined I would have. My wife is 4 years my senior and we have been through this and have had all these conversations. We've 2 great kids as a result of both of us compromising and being understanding of each others wants/needs/wishes. I've also acted as a sounding board for all of her single friends as they've gone through their 30's.

If she's on tinder or likewise, yes she can be out every night of the week on dates. My wife's friends bought that t-shirt and ultimately decided that they would never find, or really struggle to find, the right person on such apps/sites. They all grew very tired of it very fast and it was not good for their mental health. They decided to let things happen more organically and they did have long periods of not dating but ultimately, all bar one, are now in relationships they had sought.



She's very definitely asking for a commitment, she suggested just being friends with him because she didn't think he would have kids with her soon. He walked away, yet she came back. She is panicking and confused and I do feel sorry for her and understand her situation, but she is going around things the wrong way.

What? That's not asking for a commitment! That's identifying a dealbreaker early on and asking to remain friends because she likes OP as a person. That's the very opposite of being desperate.

In all honesty, an attractive 37-year-old could very easily find a way to get knocked up if she wanted to. If she were a desperate bunny boiler, it wouldn't be too difficult for an 'accident' to happen, either.

She's trying her best to find a suitable partner and father for her future children, operating on a very short timescale, and being upfront and honest to avoid wasting anyone's time. I think there's a lot to respect about that, to be honest.

Thelonious Monk

I've been seeing a 36 year old woman for about 6 months now, we spend loads of time together and everything has been great. There has never been a mention of kids. If she had mentioned looking for someone to have kids with up until now, or even now, I'd be rightly freaked out. Play it by ear. Some people mightn't have kids, anyone who's that desperate to have them and I'd be legging it.

lainey_d_123

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

I've been seeing a 36 year old woman for about 6 months now, we spend loads of time together and everything has been great. There has never been a mention of kids. If she had mentioned looking for someone to have kids with up until now, or even now, I'd be rightly freaked out. Play it by ear. Some people mightn't have kids, anyone who's that desperate to have them and I'd be legging it.

So maybe she's not bothered about it at all. A 36-year-old woman who definitely wanted kids would be mad to spend six months with someone who turned out not to ever want any. She is probably indifferent, or doesn't want them.

Why do you think so many dating sites have tick boxes for if you want kids or not? Because it's a dealbreaker for many people, either way. Far better to know at the very beginning whether your life goals align compared to 6-12 months later when feelings have developed.

Thelonious Monk

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

So maybe she's not bothered about it at all. A 36-year-old woman who definitely wanted kids would be mad to spend six months with someone who turned out not to ever want any. She is probably indifferent, or doesn't want them.

Why do you think so many dating sites have tick boxes for if you want kids or not? Because it's a dealbreaker for many people, either way. Far better to know at the very beginning whether your life goals align compared to 6-12 months later when feelings have developed.

How can you definitely want kids if you don't definitely know you're definitely going to meet the person you definitely want to have kids with?
Like one step at a time ffs.
My take on it always was - maybe with the right person. If I don't meet her, then it wasn't meant to be. How can you just say "I want kids no matter what", when there's a good chance you mightn't meet anyone, especially when older?

Thelonious Monk

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

Why do you think so many dating sites have tick boxes for if you want kids or not?

Personally I skipped every one of them that said "Want kids". It's a turn off, relax. If you're not even open minded enough to realise you mightn't have kids I wouldn't want anything to do with you.