Advice needed (she wants kids, I don't - title edited by mod)

Hi,
Posting this as I feel I need some unbiased advice.
I recently went out on 2 dates with an absolutely stunning woman. Dates went exceptionally well, conversation flowed easily, lots of laughter etc. I found myself really falling for her. Last week I messaged her to arrange a 3rd date and I got a message back the following day saying and I quote " you're really cute but I'm looking to have a kid quite soon, I'm not really getting the vibe you'd be into that at this point in your life". She went on to sat that she thinks im a really cool person and would love to meet up from time to time for a drink etc. Now the thing is I did tell her on the dates that I don't see myself having kids in the next 1-2 years (as a background, I'm 35 and she's 37). When she sent me the message I played it a bit too cool and told her that it was fine and to message me if she ever changes her mind and wants to get to know me better. I do really like her and who knows I could well change my mind about kids as I've always felt it was the person you're with rather then the timing that is important when it comes to kids. Anyways I cant get her out of my head and just posting to ask for advice

shesty

Well...she has been quite honest and I see her point (agewise).
Would you be willing to have the kids conversation with her in more depth?If so, I would suggest contacting her again, if only to see if you are both thinking the same thing.No harm in asking I guess.

bilbot79

Arian Shapely Spoon wrote: »

Hi,
Posting this as I feel I need some unbiased advice.
I recently went out on 2 dates with an absolutely stunning woman. Dates went exceptionally well, conversation flowed easily, lots of laughter etc. I found myself really falling for her. Last week I messaged her to arrange a 3rd date and I got a message back the following day saying and I quote " you're really cute but I'm looking to have a kid quite soon, I'm not really getting the vibe you'd be into that at this point in your life". She went on to sat that she thinks im a really cool person and would love to meet up from time to time for a drink etc. Now the thing is I did tell her on the dates that I don't see myself having kids in the next 1-2 years (as a background, I'm 35 and she's 37). When she sent me the message I played it a bit too cool and told her that it was fine and to message me if she ever changes her mind and wants to get to know me better. I do really like her and who knows I could well change my mind about kids as I've always felt it was the person you're with rather then the timing that is important when it comes to kids. Anyways I cant get her out of my head and just posting to ask for advice

You should change your mind and have kids

It just seems like such a heavy topic to talk about so soon after meeting someone, I did think about saying that re kids but i felt it would come across as disingenuous, as in she might think I'm only saying what she wants to hear so we can continue to see each other. A (little) part of me also thinks shes not as into me as i am for her and she brought up the kids issue as an excuse to end it

Batgurl

Why should she take a risk on someone who “might” want kids in the next few years, when she could be continuing dating and trying to find someone who definitely has the same values as her.

Time isn’t on her side; I’ve come to realise this is an area lads are completely oblivious to. Please try to see the bigger picture here. She doesn’t want to settle for maybes.

Do the girl a favour and don’t contact her unless you get your own priorities in order and they can align with hers.

I see sheep

She sounds like a bit of a headcase in fairness. I'd say move on mate.

Plumbthedepths

She was honest in what she wants, it's at odds with what you want. You should be happy she was so honest with you. Time to move on.

Dial Hard

I see sheep wrote: »

She sounds like a bit of a headcase in fairness. I'd say move on mate.

A headcase because she knows what her timelines are and was honest with him and didn't engage in any game-playing?

Right.

All valid points, thing is it does seem like kids is a topic that really shouldn't be brought up so soon after meeting them. I told her my attitude to kids mainly because I wasn't in a long term relationship at the moment so couldnt see it happening anytime soon. However I do feel that if I met the right person I'd be open to having kids, I just feel that my non chalance about the whole thing has potentially resulted in me messing up with a woman I felt I'd a lot of chemistry with

I see sheep

Dial Hard wrote: »

A headcase because she knows what her timelines are and was honest with him and didn't engage in any game-playing?

Right.

Yeah sorry maybe a bit harsh there but I think this is something to bring up after being together 6 months or something like that. It's a bit bizzare to raise it so early.

Batgurl

I see sheep wrote: »

Yeah sorry maybe a bit harsh there but I think this is something to bring up after being together 6 months or something like that. It's a bit bizzare to raise it so early.

If she waits til 6 months to bring it up and it’s a no from the lad, she’s wasted 6 months, plus the time it’ll take to get back into the dating game.

Honestly, lads are so clueless on this topic it’s almost laughable. Irish lads especially. The OP is 35. He’s not exactly a spring chicken himself. And yet he STILL doesn’t know what he wants in life.

Granted he has that luxury. But the way they play so carelessly with women’s futures in this regard is infuriating. I honestly admire this woman for being so clear, honest and open with him about what she wants.

LegacyUser

I see sheep wrote: »

Yeah sorry maybe a bit harsh there but I think this is something to bring up after being together 6 months or something like that. It's a bit bizzare to raise it so early.

I just wrote a big post and I lost it so here we go again :-)

Hi Op,
Sounds like she may have been wasting her twenties and thirties on the wrong men or in LTR that went nowhere or simply changed her mind and panicked.
The way she has gone about it sounds calculated, rigid and inorganic... as the poster said above: it’s something that could have been brought up 6 months later - 100% agree.
She could have gone about this a bit cuter.. no matter how badly she wanted it.
She’s killed the spark and attraction in my opinion.
Her deadlines and biological clock is her issue, not yours.

It should be fun when you are dating first. Fun and exciting.
Not full of ultimatums. Sounds like she wants the kid more than the man... sure you’re only three dates in and she’s going on about babies. Whatever about you, she doesn’t know who you are really, what you’re like etc doesn’t say a lot for her character and that in itself should send you running for the hills. Sounds like it wouldn’t matter who the father was so long as she gets a baby within the next year?!

Did you know this woman beforehand or was it set up?

OP, when you meet someone, there will be a pull/spark and a chemistry you won’t be able to put into words and you’ll be drawn to her. You might be mad about them or mad at them! That’s the girl you hold onto. Deadlines and timelines won’t even come into it because everything will flow naturally.

I’d part on good terms and move on..

antix80

Time's not on her side. She needs to get cracking now.
It's biology. Either you're part of her immediate plans or you're not. She can't wait 2 years to start, let alone be ditched and be back to square one.

Here's the thing I'd try to find out, but good luck because i have no idea to get someone be honest with you let alone themselves.... But does she want kids, or does she want a family.

I know plenty of men humiliated by playing a sperm donor only to pay child support and fight for access. Maternal instincts can be truly awful, and some women by extension!

If you're not ready, how to put this Nicely, but take your time, find a girl a few years younger than you who has her act together and figure things out together. If you want to settle down and have kids it's something you shouldn't be ashamed to bring up with a woman fairly on while dating.

All very logical and sound advice. Thanks. Thing is it's the very same advice, I'd give out too. In my head it makes perfect sense what ye're saying, but like I said before, I cant get her out of my head. I felt we had/have a strong connection. Maybe I'm just being selfish but I'm loathe to give her up

Idle Passerby

Arian Shapely Spoon wrote: »

Maybe I'm just being selfish but I'm loathe to give her up

She's given you up though so there isn't much you can do on that front. She's decided she isn't interested in pursuing something with you, that's all that really matters.

jlm29

Time isn’t on her side, and at least she told you that. I do think though, that bringing up kids QUITE so early on is a small bit unusual, and in reality she could well scare off a few princes as well as the frogs by taking this approach!

Western Lowland Gorilla

antix80 wrote: »

I know plenty of men humiliated by playing a sperm donor only to pay child support and fight for access. Maternal instincts can be truly awful, and some women by extension!

Playing a sperm donor, what do you mean? Did these men know what was happening. Or did the women in question 'forget' to take the pill. Granted it still takes two to tango. Frightening stuff!

antix80

Western Lowland Gorilla wrote: »

Playing a sperm donor, what do you mean? Did these men know what was happening. Or did the women in question 'forget' to take the pill. Granted it still takes two to tango. Frightening stuff!

No. They promised the earth to a partner, but once they became pregnant the baby was hers, his house was hers, his paycheque was hers.. AND he's annoying, or immature, or no chemistry.. And surplus to requirements. Because, she had other priorities (herself!). It's not a topic for this forum... Just some advice for the op.

Princess Calla

You are clearly smitten with her, I'd try to arrange another date and have a face to face conversation. While texting serves a function it really isn't a proper form of communication for serious issues.

However, I'm not 100 % convinced that she wasn't letting you down gently so be prepared for it not going your way.

Though you also need to be certain in yourself that you are willing to commit to the possibility of becoming a dad in the next couple of years.

I'm also wary that so much pressure is being put on the relationship at the beginning. Don't get me wrong I'm all for saying I'm really into you but if your into games keep on walking.

I admire her honesty and appreciate where she's coming from, I don't know, I just feel she's putting so much pressure on herself never mind you, it feels abit train crashy.

Having said that, do try to meet her and have a proper frank discussion.

ShaShaBear

Honestly frightening that a woman being honest and direct about what she needs/wants from a potential relationship makes her a headcase or weird/unusual.

She's got about 24 months left to get cracking on pregnancy and people want her to waste 6 of them secretly sussing out if the OP might change his mind about children at 35 bloody years of age :rolleyes:

There are PLENTY of men who very much want to settle down and have children, and she'd be better off using those 6 months getting to know them rather than playing coy with you!

You deciding she's stunning and that there's a connection doesn't give you the right to waste her time or "keep" her. She isn't your's - you aren't "letting" her go.

Augme

It's important to remember her main purpose is basically a sperm donor rather than true love. As much as you like her now, feelings change very quickly so ask yourself if being a single dad in 2 years time is worh taking a risk for.

Heres Johnny

From a male point of view, I think she's being very honest or else using it as a way to push you away. Probably honest if I was to guess.
She obviously has a timeline and might be broody, it's not exactly the 11th hour for her but she doesn't want to waste time.
Tough position for her, tough for any lad dating her for short time to be thinking of kids so soon too,my worst nightmare would be having kids with some people from my past who I was mad about at the time but we turned out completely incompatible and bringing kids into that would be a nightmare. So catch 22, you need to get to know her and rightfully so, but she needs commitment quickly, probably before most men can really get to know her.

zapper55

Augme wrote: »

It's important to remember her main purpose is basically a sperm donor rather than true love. As much as you like her now, feelings change very quickly so ask yourself if being a single dad in 2 years time is worh taking a risk for.

Or maybe her main purpose is to have kids with a man she loves. It's funny when a woman is being honest about her fertility and wish for kids its assumed that she'll just hook up with the next available man for kids.

I dated for a few years and didn't find someone I wanted to be with long term so I took a break from dating. A few partners were incredibly stupid about protection and would have been happy to use none. I like many women I know would have more sense than that. I had no interest in having a child with someone where we would have been a bad match or ultimately not stayed together.

Cheers for the impartial advice, good to get an impartial outsiders view. I do appreciate the situation she's in with time pressure and all that and I'm aware that I have the luxury of not having a biological clock so to speak, so I certainly don't want to mess her around but most people who have kids don't start a relationship with the specific intention of having starting a family, its something that develops organically, or thats how I see it in my head. Anyways I reckon ye're probably right, I did tell her kids aren't on my horizon for the time being and that's waht probably put her off.

strandroad

Arian Shapely Spoon wrote: »

most people who have kids don't start a relationship with the specific intention of having starting a family, its something that develops organically, or thats how I see it in my head.

Maybe when very young it makes sense to embark on a "I like you and let's see where it goes" relationship but looking for someone at 37 people should have a very good idea what they want out of a relationship. It would be quite irresponsible otherwise. I think that she's just a step ahead of you in knowing what she wants and you're still in the fuzzy stage.

Perhaps there's a lesson for you there: now you're reaching this age bracket have a thought about what you want yourself, and then own it. If you want to play the field fine, if you want a lifelong partner but no kids fine, if you want children also fine. But you'll be meeting women who are a lot more aware of their priorities than they were at 25 and you want to make sure you can be upfront and honest with them too, to meet the kind of person you're after yourself. You are describing an attractive, self-aware person - why would she date a "dunno maybe" when she can date a "yes definitely" with a much better chance of a good match? And why would you like to date someone who wants a fundamental something you're not sure is even an option for you?

LegacyUser

Arian Shapely Spoon wrote: »

Cheers for the impartial advice, good to get an impartial outsiders view. I do appreciate the situation she's in with time pressure and all that and I'm aware that I have the luxury of not having a biological clock so to speak, so I certainly don't want to mess her around but most people who have kids don't start a relationship with the specific intention of having starting a family, its something that develops organically, or thats how I see it in my head. Anyways I reckon ye're probably right, I did tell her kids aren't on my horizon for the time being and that's waht probably put her off.

If kids aren’t on your radar then leave her alone. Most people in their late 30s know whether they do or don’t want kids. I’m younger than you and I’m 100% on not wanting kids, I wouldn’t waste time with someone who did.

As for things developing organically, one has more of a luxury when one is younger to allow things to develop organically.

Draw a line under it, you two aren’t compatible, and move on.

sallyanne12

Ah here's I'm inclined to agree with the OP. I understand the poor woman has a clock ticking but 3 dates in?? It's far too soon to be thinking about let alone talking about kids. I'm not sure how many men she'll find who will want kids immediately after 3 dates... sorry just to edit... she's been on TWO dates with the OP...

LegacyUser

sallyanne12 wrote: »

Ah here's I'm inclined to agree with the OP. I understand the poor woman has a clock ticking but 3 dates in?? It's far too soon to be thinking about let alone talking about kids. I'm not sure how many men she'll find who will want kids immediately after 3 dates...

Exactly.
Look I appreciate her position and of course she is on a biological clock..
My issue is 3 dates in and the fact she doesn’t know OP from Adam?

Sure the most paternal fella who also wants to have kids could be sitting in front of her and run a mile with that talk! It’s too heavy, too calculative and feels inorganic during the first stages of dating.

strandroad

sallyanne12 wrote: »

Ah here's I'm inclined to agree with the OP. I understand the poor woman has a clock ticking but 3 dates in?? It's far too soon to be thinking about let alone talking about kids. I'm not sure how many men she'll find who will want kids immediately after 3 dates... sorry just to edit... she's been on TWO dates with the OP...

She might have a choice of dates with men who declare that it is in fact their aim to start a family, it's a legit option to tick on dating apps. That's what the OP is up against - people who are on the same page from the start, while he is not sure. She would have to be really into him to spend time to explore it (and still risk disappointment), and it doesn't sound like she is...

seenitall

strandroad wrote: »

why would you like to date someone who wants a fundamental something you're not sure is even an option for you?

Answer: lust.

Which is fine, as we are all only animals after all, but so must a 37 year old woman heed her animalistic (maternal) instincts, just as much as any 35 year old man must heed his lustful ("I wanna be playing hide-the-sausage with a gorgeous, attractive woman allllll day long") ones. It is an unfortunate irony of nature that at the end of the day, they are one and the same instinct, but played out very differently, as the biological realities seem to be out of synch with the modern society.

With the consideration of the above, I advise the OP to forget about this woman, she has her own agenda and it is a rather urgent one, while you don't even seem to be in the same mindframe, if you're honest with yourself. If she is as beautiful and lovely as you think she is, she will ultimately have little trouble fulfilling her goals, so I would just be a good sport and let her get on with it with your best wishes for the future.

And look for a younger woman for yourself, on Tinder, or wherever you go to meet women. Biological clock waits for no woman.

sallyanne12

seenitall wrote: »

Biological clock waits for no woman.

can't a lot of women have kids up to 50 etc though.. women used to see 30 as the rush to have kids but nowadays most women are well into their 30s having kids..

strandroad

sallyanne12 wrote: »

can't a lot of women have kids up to 50 etc though.. women used to see 30 as the rush to have kids but nowadays most women are well into their 30s having kids..

Some can but many cannot; it's a lottery and there is no point delaying it if you do want children, especially more than one. There is time to play and time to plan...

sallyanne12

strandroad wrote: »

She might have a choice of dates with men who declare that it is in fact their aim to start a family, it's a legit option to tick on dating apps. That's what the OP is up against - people who are on the same page from the start, while he is not sure. She would have to be really into him to spend time to explore it (and still risk disappointment), and it doesn't sound like she is...

I understand the woman doesn't want to waste time but nobody said the OP wasn't on the same page. Give the poor guy a chance to get to know his date before jumping into something as serious as kids. He sounds very wise! He only said he doesn't see himself having kids in the next 1-2 years. It's a very short time. Sure it would take at least a year to know her fully and see if they're compatible. And it takes 9 months to make a baby so a very normal timeframe he gave. How can she know if she wants kids with someone she doesn't know??

seenitall

sallyanne12 wrote: »

can't a lot of women have kids up to 50 etc though.. women used to see 30 as the rush to have kids but nowadays most women are well into their 30s having kids..

Yup, but she is 37 now, and not even in a relationship yet - I think she is in a bit of a predicament, to be honest, or could possibly find herself in one, unless she puts her skates on.

It is all very individual, with the ovary production, etc. Luck of the genetic draw.

I started getting hot flushes at 37, and at 40 I definitely was not able to conceive any longer.

Who knows what her situation regarding this stuff is.

Plumbthedepths

sallyanne12 wrote: »

can't a lot of women have kids up to 50 etc though.. women used to see 30 as the rush to have kids but nowadays most women are well into their 30s having kids..

I would hazzard a guess and say the impact on the body of a 37 year old is far less than a 50 + year old. Also energy levels to deal with a young child would be significantly different

I see sheep

Batgurl wrote: »

If she waits til 6 months to bring it up and it’s a no from the lad, she’s wasted 6 months, plus the time it’ll take to get back into the dating game.

Honestly, lads are so clueless on this topic it’s almost laughable. Irish lads especially. The OP is 35. He’s not exactly a spring chicken himself. And yet he STILL doesn’t know what he wants in life.

Granted he has that luxury. But the way they play so carelessly with women’s futures in this regard is infuriating. I honestly admire this woman for being so clear, honest and open with him about what she wants.

If she's obsessed with having kids that's her bag, she shouldn't presume everyone is up for that.

If she is mad for kids it's not difficult to get pregnant.

Most likely the OP is happy with his life and is STILL happy either way.

strandroad

sallyanne12 wrote: »

I understand the woman doesn't want to waste time but nobody said the OP wasn't on the same page. Give the poor guy a chance to get to know his date before jumping into something as serious as kids. He sounds very wise! He only said he doesn't see himself having kids in the next 1-2 years. It's a very short time. Sure it would take at least a year to know her fully and see if they're compatible. And it takes 9 months to make a baby so a very normal timeframe he gave. How can she know if she wants kids with someone she doesn't know??

The OP gave her a fuzzy answer (that he doesn't want kids in the next 1-2 years doesn't necessarily mean that he does want them later) that in his own words came across as nonchalant. And it doesn't sound like she was really into him that much anyway. It's a reasonable decision to move on, and it's actually commendable in today's dating world that she was upfront about it instead of ghosting him etc.

zubair

sallyanne12 wrote: »

I understand the woman doesn't want to waste time but nobody said the OP wasn't on the same page. Give the poor guy a chance to get to know his date before jumping into something as serious as kids. He sounds very wise! He only said he doesn't see himself having kids in the next 1-2 years. It's a very short time. Sure it would take at least a year to know her fully and see if they're compatible. And it takes 9 months to make a baby so a very normal timeframe he gave. How can she know if she wants kids with someone she doesn't know??

I think he indicated that he would have to change his mind about kids.


@OP I would say unless you're definitely planning on having kids, she's called it right, you're not on the same page and fair play to her, shes not trying to change you despite her liking you too. Sometimes people like each other and circumstances mean it won't work, c'est la vie.

Batgurl

I see sheep wrote: »

If she's obsessed with having kids that's her bag, she shouldn't presume everyone is up for that.

Lol. She isn’t presuming everyone is. She’s just weeding out the ones that aren’t.

I see sheep wrote: »

Most likely the OP is happy with his life and is STILL happy either way.

She sounds like she’s happy without him in it too: Win Win

eviltwin

I see sheep wrote: »

If she's obsessed with having kids that's her bag, she shouldn't presume everyone is up for that.

If she is mad for kids it's not difficult to get pregnant.

Most likely the OP is happy with his life and is STILL happy either way.

Getting pregnant isn't that easy, it's actually a lot harder than most people realise.

I think she's right to mention it, anyone who wants kids in the near future should get it out there early on.

I see sheep

Batgurl wrote: »

Lol. She isn’t presuming everyone is. She’s just weeding out the ones that aren’t.



She sounds like she’s happy without him in it too: Win Win

Would you like to have a baby with someone you hardly know?? It's a bit mad in fairness

I see sheep

eviltwin wrote: »

Getting pregnant isn't that easy, it's actually a lot harder than most people realise.

I think she's right to mention it, anyone who wants kids in the near future should get it out there early on.

She's mentioned it too early though and will scare guys off.

zubair

Not if they want kids too, op didn't seem to be scared off and now there's a thread about her.

zubair

I see sheep wrote: »

If she's obsessed with having kids that's her bag, she shouldn't presume everyone is up for that.

If she is mad for kids it's not difficult to get pregnant.

Most likely the OP is happy with his life and is STILL happy either way.

Clueless!

strandroad

I see sheep wrote: »

She's mentioned it too early though and will scare guys off.

Some guys do want to settle down though, and they do express it. Instead of what the OP offered her next date could say "I know what I want and it's to settle down with the right person, I'm just looking for her now", that's the kind of attitude that moves things forward when both sides are on the same page.

ILoveYourVibes

Arian Shapely Spoon wrote: »

Hi,
Posting this as I feel I need some unbiased advice.
I recently went out on 2 dates with an absolutely stunning woman. Dates went exceptionally well, conversation flowed easily, lots of laughter etc. I found myself really falling for her. Last week I messaged her to arrange a 3rd date and I got a message back the following day saying and I quote " you're really cute but I'm looking to have a kid quite soon, I'm not really getting the vibe you'd be into that at this point in your life". She went on to sat that she thinks im a really cool person and would love to meet up from time to time for a drink etc. Now the thing is I did tell her on the dates that I don't see myself having kids in the next 1-2 years (as a background, I'm 35 and she's 37). When she sent me the message I played it a bit too cool and told her that it was fine and to message me if she ever changes her mind and wants to get to know me better. I do really like her and who knows I could well change my mind about kids as I've always felt it was the person you're with rather then the timing that is important when it comes to kids. Anyways I cant get her out of my head and just posting to ask for advice

Do nothing.

You said if she changes her mind to contact you. If she changes her mind about children in the next year or two. She will contact you.

Batgurl

I see sheep wrote: »

Would you like to have a baby with someone you hardly know?? It's a bit mad in fairness

My husband would probably have an issue with it lol!

It doesn’t matter what I would like or what you would like or what anyone else would like. The only person who’s opinion matters is hers. And if this is how she wants to do it, that’s her prerogative.

You can disagree with her choices and you can choose not to do the same, but you can’t force someone to do what you want them to, just because you don’t agree with it.

Out of curiosity, why are you so opposed to what she’s doing?

Heres Johnny

She sounds balanced enough, wants a baby in a relationship that's right, not looking for sperm donor or to trap OP or anyone. Sounds reasonable to me and doing the right thing.

I see sheep

Batgurl wrote: »

Out of curiosity, why are you so opposed to what she’s doing?

Hi, not opposed to it really, I'm just being honest and saying what I would think if I were the OP.

I wish her the best, and she doesn't need to wait for a fella to have kids.

ILoveYourVibes

I see sheep wrote: »

Hi, not opposed to it really, I'm just being honest and saying what I would think if I were the OP.

I wish her the best, and she doesn't need to wait for a fella to have kids.

Well ..I know what you are saying. But its not simply ..i need a baby...

Its wanting the loving family experience. That cosy protective unit.

The way you want to raise a family. I am not judging those who don't do it that way.

I know she can go to a sperm bank. Cost of the procedure (donor sperm and one cycle of IUI) is approximately €1,000.

I mean any woman could do that.

Its not that she wants sperm ...she wants a husband ...a father to compliment the mother in her. She wants to see that father hold her children.

tara73

OP, you mentioned in one of your replies you have a feeling she used the 'kids thing' as an excuse to not proceed with you and I actually have a feeling this is the true answer.

The kids thing is certainly on her mind and her priority when looking for a partner but she met you twice, that's not much. And as I understood she didn't mentioned her desire having kids very soon in the dates you had, she brought it up in the text ending your dating, just mentioning 'vibes' she got from you..I think that's a bit bad form and makes me come the conclusion you also had, she's in general not that into you and didn't wanted to proceed with the dating.

Would she've been that into you, she wouldn't have let you go like that. She somehow would have tried to get to know in a real conversation during your dates how's your stance on having kids anytime soon. Be it directly or with hints or conversations around kids... And I'm sure she would have met for a third or fourth date in person to find out.

So I think contacting her and asking for another date would only be for yourself, that you can tell yourself you tried and don't regret not doing it later on. But I would be prepared she will not be up for it.