Going all in- The search for X% to go sub 3

sideswipe

Friday 10th January, 6 miles easy.
Made sure to do this slow after yesterday’s tempo. Legs felt good and effort was low. Did some glute and hamstring work with some foam rolling and 30 mins in compression boots last night, the focus on recovery is definitely helping to keep the legs fresher between sessions.
6 miles @ 8:30 HR 145 avg

sideswipe

Saturday 11th Jan: 10 mile @ 7:30min/mi avg
Wasn't looking forward to this from my warm bed as the wind howled outside but was meeting up with a running buddy so drove off to meet up with him. As usual conditions weren't as bad as they seemed from behind glass. Having said that we ran 5 miles out and then turned into a head wind that nearly stopped us in our tracks. Great to have company and really enjoyed the run. Not really sure how fast I should be running according to Hanson on the non 'LR' weeks.

Sunday 12th Jan: 8 miles @ 7:50 min/mi avg
Again not too sure how easy I should be running these, may have been a bit quick. Down in Tipp at the in-laws for a delayed Christmas shindig. Not feeling the love after a late night but was glad once I was out- lovely windfree run.

Decent weeks running so happy enough, the SOS sessions keep on coming though!

shotgunmcos

The non LR weeks are an easy 10m. I ran them at the steady side of easy so 7:35ish. Where SOS LRs were 7:10-7:15

sideswipe

Cheers, I was unsure about the easy aerobic a&b. I think I’m reading it right that the easy a is the pace for runs after SOS session’s, so therefore more of a recovery run?

Singer

My non-SOS not-long Sunday runs were:
13.5 miles @ 8:44
15.7 miles @ 7:50
14.3 miles @ 8:31
13.4 miles @ 8:21

Basically around 2 hours on feet, and the pace was depending on how I was feeling and was a good (and book recommended) way of getting more miles in. I'd slow down some of those runs!

sideswipe

Singer wrote: »

My non-SOS not-long Sunday runs were:
13.5 miles @ 8:44
15.7 miles @ 7:50
14.3 miles @ 8:31
13.4 miles @ 8:21

Basically around 2 hours on feet, and the pace was depending on how I was feeling and was a good (and book recommended) way of getting more miles in. I'd slow down some of those runs!

Thanks for that B, I’ll have to listen to the body to make sure I don’t overcook the nonSOS longer runs alright.

AuldManKing

Late to the party in this log - then I discover that I follow you on Strava.
Best of luck with the training.


Good to have another Boardsie coming to Manchester.

sideswipe

Cheers A, only put your Boards name to your real one recently! Didn't realise you were doing Manchester, good stuff. Speaking of which I must book flights, seems theres a certain Manchester City V Liverpool match on that weekend that might affect prices when the tv schedule is announced.

sideswipe

Monday 13th Jan: 6 miles easy treadmill @7:49 min/mi avg, HR 135bpm.

The effort on the treadmill is way easier than 'real' running. Good way of getting the miles in while not overdoing the day before or day after a hard session.
Did 20 mins on the rower and 20 mins S&C. Had an epsom salt bath and wore the compression boots for half an hour while sitting in my ass groove in front of the tv. From getting my running gear on to finishing up with the compression boots took about two and half hours which is a fair time investment, legs felt fresh for the pyramid session last night though. Wife thinks I've lost it, sitting in front of the tv with space boots is slightly outside normal I suppose:pac:

Tuesday 14th Jan: Hanson Pyramid 400-800-1200-1600-1200-800-400 off 400 jog. Warm up and down 8.6 miles total @ 7:14 avg

I had intended to do this during daylight in a better location, or rather on a better surface. Half the loop is a dark, uneven cracked concrete road with puddles and traffic, the other half is a perfect well lit running surface.
My running window got pushed till after dark so had to make the most of the location and time I had available. Started into the shorter reps on the good surface after 1.5 mile warm up-

400- 1:24 (5:41/mi)
800- 3:01 (6:06/mi)
1200- 4:31 (6:04/mi)
1600- 5:59 (6:01/mi)
1200- 4:32 (6:05/mi)
800- 2:56 (5:55/mi)
400- 1:24 (5:41/mi)

Happy enough overall, paces a bit all over the place in non ideal conditions but was glad to have it done.

Still feel I'm lacking speed after only focusing on marathon type training for 3 years now. After this training block I definitely intend focusing on shorter stuff for a while to sharpen that pencil.

Had a protein shake afterwards to kick start recovery, previously I probably wouldn't have eaten anything after a session like this until I'd driven home and had a shower. It would probably be an hour later before I'd eat anything. This new 'do everything possible to recover for the next session' has been a bit of an eye opener to areas where I was doing myself no favours. Into the ass groove and compression boots again after dinner while I booked flights and hotel for Manchester!

sideswipe

Wednesday 15th Jan: 4 miles recovery @ 8:47 min/mi avg, HR 144bpm.

Plan has Wednesdays as a rest day. Down at club training with my daughter so it's a case of sit in the car and wait or get a couple of easy miles in. I do miss doing the session with the rest of the club but don't miss doing it on a soft GAA pitch. I've done sessions there in the past where you sink to your ankles in mud, it's hard to run fast and leaves my legs in bits the next day. Even doing easy laps last week left my calves tight for the tempo next day so I decided to do the recovery on the road this week. Heart rate was down 10bpm for a similar pace which shows how much more effort it required to run on the soft ground.

Thursday 16th Jan: 7 mile Tempo @6:25 min/mi avg w/wu & cd, 11 miles total, HR 170bpm.

Happy birthday to me. Woke up a year older as the wind and rain lashed the house. Had planned work around taking the morning off to get the tempo done early. After nearly getting blown away on the school run I had a decision to make- go out in the monsoon or hit the treadmill. Took 20 minutes of wrestling with the two options but sided with the treadmill in the end.
Did the warm up and and went into the tempo section with the intention of getting the HR up to the tempo effort from last week as quick as possible and ignoring the pace. Used the incline at 4% and got up the the required HR after 2 miles and kept it there for the 7 miles. I was probably wetter inside than I would have been out in the rain at the end. Sky sports had repeat highlights of Liverpool v Barca from last season so I left that on which made the time pass nicely. I actually watched that match live on the treadmill at the time and covered 15.5 miles!

The other half got me a Garmin Fenix 6 for my birthday so looking forward to playing around with that.

Laineyfrecks

Happy Birthday to you

shotgunmcos

Happy birthday! Thats a whole lotta watch, nice one!

sideswipe

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Happy birthday! Thats a whole lotta watch, nice one!

Cheers, think I’ve taken against the watch already- just ran my scheduled 7 miles easy and it flashed up ‘Training Status: Unproductive’ and ‘Fitness down’

shotgunmcos

sideswipe wrote: »

Cheers, think I’ve taken against the watch already- just ran my scheduled 7 miles easy and it flashed up ‘Training Status: Unproductive’ and ‘Fitness down’

New watches do that. I got a new 645 music off santa and even though it synced with Garmin Connect, the new watch needs to get to know you. It dropped my V02 to 49 and I was unproductive for a week. Give it a week of running to get to know you and it will bring you back up I had a Fenix before, super watch. Takes time to get used to the massive about of functions.

skyblue46

shotgunmcos wrote: »

New watches do that. I got a new 645 music off santa and even though it synced with Garmin Connect, the new watch needs to get to know you. It dropped my V02 to 49 and I was unproductive for a week. Give it a week of running to get to know you and it will bring you back up I had a Fenix before, super watch. Takes time to get used to the massive about of functions.

Sorry for the hijack. I got a 645 Music too and I'm finding the barometric altimeter beyond useless. My elevation graphs bear little or no resemblance to my routes. Have you kept an eye on yours by any chance?

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack. I got a 645 Music too and I'm finding the barometric altimeter beyond useless. My elevation graphs bear little or no resemblance to my routes. Have you kept an eye on yours by any chance?

That’s because once your Vo2 max goes below 21 it’s of no use!!!!!

pconn062

May I ask what brand of recovery boots do you use? Thanks

sideswipe

pconn062 wrote: »

May I ask what brand of recovery boots do you use? Thanks

I got these ones from Base2Race-

https://shop.base2race.ie/products/air-relax-recovery-boots

They are expensive but half the price of Normatec's

Have been using them now for a couple of months and really find them great.
Are they worth the cost? Hard to say but any that come up for resale on eBay seem to go quick and for good money so I figured I could sell it on if they didn't work out.

sideswipe

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack. I got a 645 Music too and I'm finding the barometric altimeter beyond useless. My elevation graphs bear little or no resemblance to my routes. Have you kept an eye on yours by any chance?

Still getting to grips with the watch so I can't offer any insight into the altimeter I'm afraid.

Looking at my first couple of runs with it the elevation track seems spot on. I wore my old watch and HRM strap on my long run yesterday to check how they compared data wise. I was really interested in the wrist HRM as I'd only ever used a chest strap before here is the comparison for HR and Elevation.

Fenix 6 with wrist HRM:



Average Heart Rate 163bpm
Elevation gain 129m, Loss 137m


Old Garmin with HRM strap:



Average Heart Rate 158bpm
Elevation Gain 130m, Loss 145m

5bpm is quite a bit. I wore the watch on the inside of my wrist as I have hairy ape arms and wasn't confident that the readings would be thrown off by that. Plus I figured the skin is thinner on the inside of the wrist and I had heard others suggest this before.

I think I'll continue to use the strap going forward.

sideswipe

Friday 17th Jan: 7 miles easy @ 8:19 min/mi avg, HR 148 bpm.

Feeling the effects of curry, too much wine and birthday cake. Stunning weather, enjoyed the fact that it was an easy run day!


Saturday 18th Jan: 8 miles easy @ 8:18 min/mi avg, HR 151 bpm.

Just getting the miles in while leaving something in the tank for Sunday's quicker LR. Did some light stretching. Jumped in the hot tub for 20 mins and rolled the **** out of my calves and hamstrings with a massage stick and wore the recovery boots for 30 mins while eating lunch. Legs felt in decent shape after a tough enough week with the long run to come.

Sunday 19th Jan: 14 mile LR @ 7:20 min/mi avg, HR 158 bpm.

Beautiful cold morning. Had breakfast and jumped in the tub to get the blood flowing before getting the gear on. I find lashing into MP + 30 seconds from the off hard. Getting the blood flow going first makes a huge difference. Legs felt good as I took off. Pace was a little up and down as I tried to latch onto the correct pace. Settled down after a few miles and the first half of the run was enjoyable. Stomach started to feel a little off and had to take an unscheduled toilet stop after about 7 miles. Got going again but my hamstring stated to feel tight and I started to feel tired. Second half of the run was a bit of a drag after that. Had to stop again to use the loo, got going again and was glad to finish at the end.

Since I started into the Hanson plan, the 'short' long runs have been a concern. This 14 miler definitely felt tougher than some easy 20 LSR's I've done in the past. It took me 1 hour 42 minutes. So the 16 miler, or longest run, will take about 2 hrs. It still frightens me that on race day I'll have an hour more running at 30 seconds a mile faster pace to contend with!!!

Needed to get out of the house to escape a manic play date and watch the Pool v ManU game. So in the spirit of keeping hard days hard I took to the man cave and did 30 mins on the rowing followed by 30 mins S&C in the afternoon while watching the game.

Happy with another decent week quality wise, distance increasing too with 59 miles total. Legs, hamstrings in particular, feel in need of a rub down so will try to get one in this week.

sideswipe

Monday 20th Jan: 6 miles easy @ 8:50 min/mi avg, HR all over the shop....

Slowed this right down to make sure it was recovery effort. Used the watch HRM and it was all over the place. Definitely opt for the chest strap in future. Pretty boring run, just wanted it done. Used the recovery boots for 30 mins after.

Tuesday 21st Jan: 3 x 1 mile off 400's w/wu & wd. 7 miles total, HR 160bpm.

Had this programmed into the watch and decided to get it done at lunch time. Found it tough again.

Splits:
1. 6:07
2. 6:05
3. 6:00

HR was at 180bpm for these so was working hard and it felt like all out effort. Only copped afterwards that the recovery was supposed to be 600's instead of the 400's I took.

Overall the feeling I came away with was one of disappointment in the session. Legs were tired and dead, feeling like I've no speed in them at all. The plan almost feels like training for a 5k and a marathon at the same time at the moment!
The pace calculator has me down for speed workouts between 5:58-6:13 so I suppose I was pretty much on the money especially given the shorter recoveries, so maybe not as bad as I thought.

Did 20 mins rowing and 30 mins S&C routine pm followed by 30 mins in the recovery boots.

Weight holding steady at 79kgs, really want to see a downward trend with 10 weeks to go but the appetite is a little out of control at the moment

shotgunmcos

Hey I remember not quite hitting the paces on that session. Dont worry you took less recovery and it was still a good workout. In the bank.

You are over the hump on the speed sessions. It's the MP run you want to hit. Then the steady pacey LR is next.

20 mins on the Erg wont help recovery, especially on session days. You might give that time to your mat or roller.

One other thing. Plenty of protein very soon after SOS sessions. And get as much sleep as you can. All helps speeding up the recovery process. Overall you are hitting the the training consistently and on target places. Dont get too hung up on one run!

skyblue46

sideswipe wrote: »

Still getting to grips with the watch so I can't offer any insight into the altimeter I'm afraid.

Looking at my first couple of runs with it the elevation track seems spot on. I wore my old watch and HRM strap on my long run yesterday to check how they compared data wise. I was really interested in the wrist HRM as I'd only ever used a chest strap before here is the comparison for HR and Elevation.

Fenix 6 with wrist HRM:



Average Heart Rate 163bpm
Elevation gain 129m, Loss 137m


Old Garmin with HRM strap:



Average Heart Rate 158bpm
Elevation Gain 130m, Loss 145m

5bpm is quite a bit. I wore the watch on the inside of my wrist as I have hairy ape arms and wasn't confident that the readings would be thrown off by that. Plus I figured the skin is thinner on the inside of the wrist and I had heard others suggest this before.

I think I'll continue to use the strap going forward.

These are elevation traces for the same 3 mile run which was done 3 times around a 1 mile lap. The one with the 3 laps clearly visible is with my old FR220 and the other with the 645

ariana`

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack. I got a 645 Music too and I'm finding the barometric altimeter beyond useless. My elevation graphs bear little or no resemblance to my routes. Have you kept an eye on yours by any chance?

You may want to talk to Kellygirl, she had on going issues with this on the Fenix.

sideswipe

skyblue46 wrote: »

These are elevation traces for the same 3 mile run which was done 3 times around a 1 mile lap. The one with the 3 laps clearly visible is with my old FR220 and the other with the 645

The graphs there do appear very different alright! The max and min don't seem too far off each other. When messing around wit my watch I did see a calibrate function. According to the garmin site it is automatic but can also be done manually-

https://support.garmin.com/en-IN/?faq=xbnpoNIaEDAt8msJht2rM7

sideswipe

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Hey I remember not quite hitting the paces on that session. Dont worry you took less recovery and it was still a good workout. In the bank.

You are over the hump on the speed sessions. It's the MP run you want to hit. Then the steady pacey LR is next.

20 mins on the Erg wont help recovery, especially on session days. You might give that time to your mat or roller.

One other thing. Plenty of protein very soon after SOS sessions. And get as much sleep as you can. All helps speeding up the recovery process. Overall you are hitting the the training consistently and on target places. Dont get too hung up on one run!

Thank a mill for that. Was thinking of dropping rowing alright having done some research on foot of the tread about S&C for runners in the main forum!

Wed 22nd Jan: 5 miles recovery @8:51 min/mi, HR 144 bpm

Again choice of: wait in the car while my daughter trains with the club, run easy laps of the pitch during club training or go off for an easy few miles on the road. Chose the road as the soft ground has left the calves tight for the tempo next day in the past. I do miss doing the club session but would have to change the week around too much as I've arranged things to have Thursday mornings free for the tempo runs which is the priority. Enjoyed running slow. Epsom salt bath after. Still don't know if it does any good but legs felt good afterwards.

Thurs 23rd Jan: 7 mile tempo @6:47 min/mi, HR 176bpm 2 miles wu&wd 11 miles Total

Final 7 mile before an increase to 8 next week. Was hoping it would feel easier but the heart rate was well up from the get go. I suppose there is plenty of miles and effort in the legs. Stunning morning for it and the first time I've had good conditions for a tempo in a while. Could I have done another mile? Yes. Could I have done 19? Not a ****ing chance. Oh well, I'll stick at it and hope things come together and I don't fall apart.

One thing this tempo has illustrated is that the treadmill is not great at simulating the required tempo effort- 7 x 6:25 min/miles last week averaged 170bpm. If I do use it in future I'd need to get the HR up before starting and keep it in the mid 170's.

Singer

I think as you get closer to peak training you should reduce the non-running activities. Rowing is a good thing, but it's not specific to running a sub-3 marathon, which is your focus between now and running back towards Old Trafford. I'd do a recovery run over a fun row. I'd mostly get off the treadmill too. I'm sure it can work for some and can be good for injury prevention and easy/recovery runs but for our level I'm not convinced it provides a specific enough a workout. Also, don't worry too much about heart rate and effort. My last 10 mile@MP finished at a heart rate that I ended up at mile 20 in the marathon itself. The joys of 10 days of taper after months of fatigue

sideswipe

Singer wrote: »

I think as you get closer to peak training you should reduce the non-running activities. Rowing is a good thing, but it's not specific to running a sub-3 marathon, which is your focus between now and running back towards Old Trafford. I'd do a recovery run over a fun row. I'd mostly get off the treadmill too. I'm sure it can work for some and can be good for injury prevention and easy/recovery runs but for our level I'm not convinced it provides a specific enough a workout. Also, don't worry too much about heart rate and effort. My last 10 mile@MP finished at a heart rate that I ended up at mile 20 in the marathon itself. The joys of 10 days of taper after months of fatigue

That's reassuring to know thanks. Yeah, I think treadmill will be for easy recoveries only from now on.

sideswipe

Last weekend was a bit of a drag just logging the prescribed miles. Seeing other peoples races on Strava and reading reports here left me feeling a bit bored with Hanson cycle. I think a race here and there would help shake it up a bit. I do feel I always need to remind myself of those pre race nerves and the discomfort of racing. Anyway shock off the feeling malaise and got with the program.

Friday 24th Jan: 6 miles easy @ 8:35 avg, HR 147 bpm.

Saturday 25th Jan: 11 miles easy @ 8:17 avg, HR 146 bpm.

Sunday 26th Jan: 10 miles easy @ 8:24 avg, HR 148 bpm.

^^Nothing to see here just vanilla miles^^

Monday 27th Jan: 7 miles easy treadmill @ 8:10 144 bpm.

Late change of plan meant I had to schedule in a trip to the airport last night meaning I only had an hour to squeeze in what was supposed to be 8 miles easy. Did an hour on the treadmill while my daughter messed around on the Spin bike and rowing machine, great child minding:o

Tuesday 28th Jan: 8 miles with 6 x 800's off 400 rec.

Busy this evening so had to get this in before a meeting. As soon as I got out of the car I knew I hadn't got enough clothes, absolutely baltic! Hit the pre-programmed workout on the watch and got to it. 2 mile 'warm up' and hit the lap button for the first rep. 20 meters later and 4 dogs barrelled around a corner and nearly took me out as I stepped off the path and went ankle deep into icy mud. I used to be a dog person, less and less so these days.....

Rep paces all over the place and I found myself struggling for speed and oxygen! I've run a parkrun in this particular park at a similar speed to these reps, legs felt heavy.

Reps-
1. 2:58
2. 3:05
3. 3:04
4. 3:00
5. 3:04
6. 3:05

Short cool down and glad to get back into the car .Not a confidence building workout but not a total disaster either considering the conditions. One more speed session before the transition to strength type workouts, quite looking forward to that!!

sideswipe

Wednesday 29th Jan: 5 miles recovery @ 8:32 min/mi, HR 145 bpm.

Just ran easy again while club mates flogged themselves doing k reps on a muddy pitch. The Hanson plan calls for Wednesday to be a rest day which I've substituted for a recovery run thus far, actually quite enjoy them. Since recovering from a dose in mid December I've ran everyday bar one, current streak is 43 days. Might break that soon as I always feel if a streak gets long I'm reluctant to break it even if a rest day is exactly what i need. Sometimes it's harder not to run.

Thursday 30th Jan: 8 miles tempo @ 6:46 min/mi, HR 179bpm.

Felt like I was getting ready for a race as I got my gear together this morning before the school run. First step up to an 8 miler and I was somewhat nervous about it for some reason. Had a rub down from the physio yesterday and the legs felt good as I got into it. Used the PacePro feature on the garmin for the first time and found it good even though it meant looking at the watch a bit too much and racing the session a bit if the pace dropped on the hills or into the wind.
I won't lie I found it tough in a few spots and had to mentally talk myself out of splitting it into 2 x 4 miles:o but persevered. One of the things about not having tune up races in the build up that has concerned me is the lack of opportunity to practise that race toughness from pushing through when the needle is moving towards the red. Used today as an opportunity to HTFU, no doubt there'll be a few more so I feel less concerned about not doing tune up races!

1.5 miles warm up and down for 11 miles total. Glad to have it in the bank.....on to the next one.