Going all in- The search for X% to go sub 3

sideswipe

As the title suggests it's time to go all in if I'm going to run sub 3. If Nike can promise a 4% and 'Next %' improvement, surely I can find a hefty chuck from every other area? In real terms I need to improve by 8%..... new shoes and I'm half way there:D

The journey so far....
Started out back in 2009 and trained for DCM. Made a lot of mistakes but would probably not have made the start line if it wasn't for this forum, gained a lot of invaluable knowledge here over the years.

DCM 2009 4:22. Struggled with a lot of niggles as my body just wasn't used to the stresses of marathon training. Was also carrying some extra weight back then at 95kgs.

Have done 21 marathons and 5 ultras up to 50 miles. The weight fell and so did the marathon times-3:45, 3:28, 3:12, 3:10, 3:09, 3:07 (weight 74kgs)

Then I hit a wall: 3:10, 3:12. Plateaued, peaked, over the hill, the sub 3 dream seemed to be fading. I looked back at my training and apart from some niggles that had hampered training and the fact I was getting older nothing had changed. I looked at my stats-

PB's:
5k 18:45
10k 38:48
Half 1:27:40
Marathon 3:07:27

Lifetime stats:
Total Activities: 3824
Total Distance: 22,332.31 miles
Total Activity Time: 3031:07:08 h:m:s


All those miles, all that time, 3031 hours.......I could have trained to be a pilot or doctor in that time!

I was feeling pissed off that I’d come up short. I thought I'd tried everything to improve- high milage, adding more quality. I was running consistently over 2000 miles a year. I followed plans diligently, I read the books, joined a club and still the goal was out of reach. I've always considered myself as lacking in natural running talent but hoped I could bridge the gap with effort.

2019 has been a strange year, I've struggled with niggles including a tendinopathy in my achilles which meant it was difficult to walk most morning let alone run. Six sessions of painful shockwave therapy, some strength and conditioning work and cross training saw me turn the corner over the summer.

It seemed 2019 was to be the first year I wouldn't run a marathon since my first in 2009. As the summer rolled by I felt better, seeing club mates turn their attention to marathon training, getting out for long runs filled me with FOMO. I started joining them for the 'shorter' long runs and pretty soon I was on board to run DCM.

For the first time I didn't follow a plan but ran by feel and arrived at the start line in decent shape while listening to my body and not over doing it. The result was a 3:12 and an enjoyable experience on race day where I ran comfortably.

Post Dublin I made sure to recover properly which is something I'd very much neglected in the past, rushing back into hard training too quick. Plans for whats next started to develop in my head. Could I string a decent training block together and try for a sub 3? Where could I improve.....a different training plan, a coach, magic shoes?
The answer to all of the above dawned on me......everywhere. There was room to improve in every aspect of my training.

Although I'd trained hard in the past, looking back I'm not sure if I fully committed. I never started a plan where I was willing to do everything in my power to get to the start line in the required shape. That covers everything form diet and weight, being mentally strong in training and racing and making sure I recover properly from sessions.

So the aim here is to start keeping a log to keep me honest and get some feedback. I actually started a log of sorts on Facebook HERE before realising the obvious that this was a far better home for it. I'll probably keep the other one going as it easy to share content, articles etc on that platform.

I'm going to target an April marathon so an 18 week plan will start in early December. Going with The Hanson Advance plan purely because of it's emphasis on MP stuff. Not sure if I'll be able to hold my nerve by not going beyond 16 miles!

I've tested out a few of the early sessions as a warm up to the plan running 4 miles at tempo last week (average 6:35min/miles which was way too hot).
Did 8x400's on Tuesday and plan 5 @ 6:50ish later.

I'm down to do the Waterford half next month which comes 3 days into the start of the plan, which is probably a black mark straight away:o

I'll also be overseas from mid December till beginning of January so hopefully that won't effect the training too much.

So the journey to find this elusive X percent starts here. All advice welcome!!

KSU

sideswipe wrote: »

As the title suggests it's time to go all in if I'm going to run sub 3. If Nike can promise a 4% and 'Next %' improvement, surely I can find a hefty chuck from every other area? In real terms I need to improve by 8%..... new shoes and I'm half way there:D

The journey so far....
Started out back in 2009 and trained for DCM. Made a lot of mistakes but would probably not have made the start line if it wasn't for this forum, gained a lot of invaluable knowledge here over the years.

DCM 2009 4:22. Struggled with a lot of niggles as my body just wasn't used to the stresses of marathon training. Was also carrying some extra weight back then at 95kgs.

Have done 21 marathons and 5 ultras up to 50 miles. The weight fell and so did the marathon times-3:45, 3:28, 3:12, 3:10, 3:09, 3:07 (weight 74kgs)

Then I hit a wall: 3:10, 3:12. Plateaued, peaked, over the hill, the sub 3 dream seemed to be fading. I looked back at my training and apart from some niggles that had hampered training and the fact I was getting older nothing had changed. I looked at my stats-

PB's:
5k 18:45
10k 38:48
Half 1:27:40
Marathon 3:07:27

Lifetime stats:
Total Activities: 3824
Total Distance: 22,332.31 miles
Total Activity Time: 3031:07:08 h:m:s


All those miles, all that time, 3031 hours.......I could have trained to be a pilot or doctor in that time!

I was feeling pissed off that I’d come up short. I thought I'd tried everything to improve- high milage, adding more quality. I was running consistently over 2000 miles a year. I followed plans diligently, I read the books, joined a club and still the goal was out of reach. I've always considered myself as lacking in natural running talent but hoped I could bridge the gap with effort.

2019 has been a strange year, I've struggled with niggles including a tendinopathy in my achilles which meant it was difficult to walk most morning let alone run. Six sessions of painful shockwave therapy, some strength and conditioning work and cross training saw me turn the corner over the summer.

It seemed 2019 was to be the first year I wouldn't run a marathon since my first in 2009. As the summer rolled by I felt better, seeing club mates turn their attention to marathon training, getting out for long runs filled me with FOMO. I started joining them for the 'shorter' long runs and pretty soon I was on board to run DCM.

For the first time I didn't follow a plan but ran by feel and arrived at the start line in decent shape while listening to my body and not over doing it. The result was a 3:12 and an enjoyable experience on race day where I ran comfortably.

Post Dublin I made sure to recover properly which is something I'd very much neglected in the past, rushing back into hard training too quick. Plans for whats next started to develop in my head. Could I string a decent training block together and try for a sub 3? Where could I improve.....a different training plan, a coach, magic shoes?
The answer to all of the above dawned on me......everywhere. There was room to improve in every aspect of my training.

Although I'd trained hard in the past, looking back I'm not sure if I fully committed. I never started a plan where I was willing to do everything in my power to get to the start line in the required shape. That covers everything form diet and weight, being mentally strong in training and racing and making sure I recover properly from sessions.

So the aim here is to start keeping a log to keep me honest and get some feedback. I actually started a log of sorts on Facebook HERE before realising the obvious that this was a far better home for it. I'll probably keep the other one going as it easy to share content, articles etc on that platform.

I'm going to target an April marathon so an 18 week plan will start in early December. Going with The Hanson Advance plan purely because of it's emphasis on MP stuff. Not sure if I'll be able to hold my nerve by not going beyond 16 miles!

I've tested out a few of the early sessions as a warm up to the plan running 4 miles at tempo last week (average 6:35min/miles which was way too hot).
Did 8x400's on Tuesday and plan 5 @ 6:50ish later.

I'm down to do the Waterford half next month which comes 3 days into the start of the plan, which is probably a black mark straight away:o

I'll also be overseas from mid December till beginning of January so hopefully that won't effect the training too much.

So the journey to find this elusive X percent starts here. All advice welcome!!

Best of luck with the plan you definitely have the miles in the legs to work to your advantage as well as having the speed to do it.

Best advice without actually overthinking the training I would give you is discipline and effort. Don’t focus on running faster in the plan focus on running as comfortable as possible at MP rather than trying to “get fitter” through sessions might sound counter intuitive but you already have fitness to run sub 3 you just need to become so in control in your running that you leave yourself in the position to achieve it later in the race

sideswipe

KSU wrote: »

Best of luck with the plan you definitely have the miles in the legs to work to your advantage as well as having the speed to do it.

Best advice without actually overthinking the training I would give you is discipline and effort. Don’t focus on running faster in the plan focus on running as comfortable as possible at MP rather than trying to “get fitter” through sessions might sound counter intuitive but you already have fitness to run sub 3 you just need to become so in control in your running that you leave yourself in the position to achieve it later in the race

Cheers. Appreciate the advice. Getting comfortable at MP will definitely be the focus!

shotgunmcos

You are grand for Waterford. First couple of weeks of the Hansons advanced are easing you into it. From week 3 it's on! Stick to it and be careful about flexibility. I'll follow with interest

sideswipe

shotgunmcos wrote: »

You are grand for Waterford. First couple of weeks of the Hansons advanced are easing you into it. From week 3 it's on! Stick to it and be careful about flexibility. I'll follow with interest

Cheers. Funny you mention flexibility. I used to stick to plans religiously even though I knew they weren’t exactly written for me. I’ve since tried to employ a ‘listen to the body’ approach. What strikes me about Hanson is that cumulative fatigue is a big factor so it’s nearly a case of ignoring the body/tiredness. In other words following this plan to the letter is an important factor in getting the desired results. Looking forward to giving it a lash.


Did a treadmill tempo session this evening to test the waters and keep me sharp for Waterford.
5 miles @ 6:43min/miles with wu & cd. Probably need to ease off a bit before the plan kicks in so I’m not going into it fatigued. Weight steady at 78kgs need to gradually work that down to low 70’s.............after Christmas!

OOnegative

Be following your progress with interest to, as KSU stated you have the miles in the legs to run sub 3. Do you believe you can run it though??

KSU

sideswipe wrote: »

What strikes me about Hanson is that cumulative fatigue is a big factor so it’s nearly a case of ignoring the body/tiredness. In other words following this plan to the letter is an important factor in getting the desired results. !

Be careful with this, cumulative fatigue and listening to the body are not mutually exclusive. You need to learn the difference between fatigue and general warning signs.

If you do plan on the stick to the plan side you need to focus on the various pitfalls which make this unsustainable. Nutrition, sleep, pints, hydration etc need to be on point otherwise sticking to the plan at all costs is a recipe for disaster.

Remember the plan is designed with ideal conditions in mind but life is far from ideal

sideswipe

OOnegative wrote: »

Be following your progress with interest to, as KSU stated you have the miles in the legs to run sub 3. Do you believe you can run it though??

The million dollar question. Ironically I listened to Stephen Scullion's latest podcast on an easy run this morning. The title was- 'If you can't, create the mother F**ker that can', well worth a listen. Do I believe I can now.....no. Do I believe I can get to a place that I can......yes.

KSU wrote: »

Be careful with this, cumulative fatigue and listening to the body are not mutually exclusive. You need to learn the difference between fatigue and general warning signs.

If you do plan on the stick to the plan side you need to focus on the various pitfalls which make this unsustainable. Nutrition, sleep, pints, hydration etc need to be on point otherwise sticking to the plan at all costs is a recipe for disaster.

Remember the plan is designed with ideal conditions in mind but life is far from ideal

Yeah, it's finding that line and not going over it I guess.

I suppose the whole idea of starting a log here and the Facebook page was to get into an everyday mindset of training for a sub 3. The stuff you mentioned- nutrition, sleep etc are areas I've paid no heed to in the past. The fact I'd be willing to go out and pay €275 for a pair of runners because they'd make me faster and pay no attention to all the other stuff I was neglecting has given me focus. It's easy (if you can afford it!) to but the Nikes. It's not so easy to dedicate yourself to doing everything else, besides the actual running, that can make improvements.

The Scullion podcast I mentioned above is a great insight into the mindset of a professional athlete. In the past I'd follow a plan and in-between the actual runs I'd revert to my inner Homer, I was only a runner when I was running. My intention for this plan is after each run or session to focus on next run through good recovery, nutrition, sleep etc.
As you say the plan is for ideal conditions which are never a certainty, I suppose by focusing on all the smaller details I'm hoping to maximise the chances of ideal conditions.


Todays run: 6 Miles easy (8:10 min/m) Heart rate a little high, might need to make easy runs easier after the tempo runs.

Recovery: Have a hot tub in the garden that only got used in the summer for drinking beers! Have started to use it the morning after tempo's. Got in for 15 mins this morning in the dark and pissing rain. Wife thinks I've lost it! I used a massage stick to roll out the legs. They felt great on the run after it. I intend to jump in before some of the sessions to get the blood flowing a bit, see if it helps.

sideswipe

Nov 18-24th

Decent week:

Mon- 4 mile easy treadmill 8:09min/mi. 30 mins rowing machine + 20 mins S&C
Tue-8 miles w/8x400 (1:30 avg) off 60 seconds jog
Wed- 5 miles easy on grass
Thurs- 5 miles @ 6:45 min/mi wu &cd 7.5 miles total
Fri- 6 miles easy (8:12 min/mi)
Sat- 4 miles treadmill (8 min/mi) + 30 mins rowing
Sun- 12 miles @ Hanson LR pace....ish (7:16 min/mi avg) a little hot maybe.

Need to learn to do a table:rolleyes:

Pretty much a Hanson training week as a trial and to keep me ticking over for Waterford.
Really wasn't sure how I'd manage running the LR quicker than I would normally but it went well.
Did tempo on the treadmill. I find the effort is easier so not sure how close to reality it is- HR isn't as challenged.
400's were done steady, wasn't wiped after and could have managed another couple.
Got 2 sessions on the rowing machine which I think is helping leg strength.
Looking to incorporate some more S&C over the following weeks.
Big focus on recovery as well which will hopefully help. Covered some of the recovery aids in a Blog if anybody is interested!
#nostoneleftunturned

Singer

Hmm, sounds like a familiar goal and plan

Three things worked for me:
- Do your training to the Hanson 2:55 paces! Your 400s and 12 miles were around that anyway.
- Don't race, stick to the plan if you really want to benefit from it.
- More easy miles, slower. No harm in slowing down some of your current easy miles.

I did generally add on a warm-up and cool-down mile to the 16 mile long runs.

sideswipe

Singer wrote: »

Hmm, sounds like a familiar goal and plan

Three things worked for me:
- Do your training to the Hanson 2:55 paces! Your 400s and 12 miles were around that anyway.
- Don't race, stick to the plan if you really want to benefit from it.
- More easy miles, slower. No harm in slowing down some of your current easy miles.

I did generally add on a warm-up and cool-down mile to the 16 mile long runs.

Thanks singer, I followed your training with interest! Two other lads I know also followed the plan and hit their targets so fingers crossed.

Will definitely gear the training somewhere between 2:55 and 3 hour pace.
Don’t plan to race......well apart from Waterford and maybe a race that’s on while I’m in the US. It’s a half on a day I’m due to do a 10 mile LR so not too bad if I don’t go nuts!
Easier easy miles is probably something I’ll have to look at when the mileage ramps up. All observations welcome over the coming months!!

Murph_D

I’d try to avoid the treadmill for tempo runs - I think it really helps to simulate race conditions and terrain as much as possible on these runs, especially as they get longer and the fatigue becomes more of a factor. Treadmill is fine for recovery runs, I’d argue.

Best of luck!

sideswipe

Thanks Murph. Yeah when the plan kicks in proper I'll be trying to hit the road for all the tempo's. If I am forced onto the treadmill I'll try to hit HR that lines up with the road tempo's

shotgunmcos

Just curious. What would force you onto a treadmill?

sideswipe

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Just curious. What would force you onto a treadmill?

I have a treadmill at home so if the other half is away (she travels for work a bit) I can look after my daughter and get a run in. I also have to do a fair bit of a tempo run on the roads which can be tricky on dark winters evenings, I do hope to get the tempos done in the mornings or lunch times as much as possible, although when they go up to 10 miles I'm not sure how feasible that'll be!

I also had it in my head that Krusty used a treadmill to good effect to preserve the body........if it's good enough for the clown:cool:

Monday 25th Nov

5 mile easy treadmill (8min/mi)

30 mins Rowing machine + 20 mins foam rolling followed by an epsom salt bath.

Tuesday 26th Nov

8 miles w 8 x 600 off 400 jog. Averaged about 2:23 for these, it seems from my garmin they were actually 640 meter reps, had them set on the watch incorrectly! Conditions were brutal as I did them on the seafront with seaweed and pebbles underfoot and an ex-tropical storm wiping off the sea. Happy to get it done but woke up this morning with my throat killing me. Haven't taken a rest day for 3 weeks so might sit in drinking lemsips this evening.

sideswipe

Thursday 28th Nov

6 miles easy (8:14mim/mi)

Was supposed to be a tempo but have contracted a deadly strain of manflu. Decided to push the tempo out till today. Have a window to run at lunch but not sure if I should just leave it. Bad nights sleep with a dry cough, it's one of those were you feel you can't be happy unless you do what you'd planned to do but also feel the need to be sensible, ultimately the goal is an April marathon and the training plan starts next week.

I'm torn between getting a good tempo in @ close to HMP in advance of Waterford and starting into a training plan healthy and rested. It's very much a head cold at the moment so my inner voice is telling me not to be a wimp and get the tempo done

sideswipe

The Lost Weekend.....

Had to have a long hard talk with myself on Friday not to do the Tempo. I wasn't feeling too bad and could still argue that it would be ok as it was above the neck but in the end decided not to chance it. It really is a hard call to make not to run, always feels like a cop out.

It turned out to be a good call as I was wiped on Friday evening having not run at all.....had to put myself to bed before the end of the Toy Show:o

Took Saturday off and did 6 miles easy on Sunday feeling better for clearing the head of snot. The doc prescribed a course of antibiotics which I won't take unless it gets worse but in truth I feel back to normal today and toying with the idea of getting something of substance done today. Doc also advised against doing Waterford saying an hour and a half of hard effort after a viral or bacterial infection was asking for trouble......torn about that one but I'll have to keep a low profile down there if I go as he is running it too.

This Thursday sees my start date for the Hanson plan. It seems like a very gentle start with mostly easy running. Part of me is thinking to forget about Waterford and running anything hard and go into the plan fresh and rested- when the SOS sessions start they'll be coming thick and fast anyway.

sideswipe

Monday 2nd Dec

Bit the bullet and headed out for the tempo I put off last week. Did 5 mile averaging 6:42 min/mi pace w/warm up & down. 9.5 miles total. Average HR was 172bpm so was working hard. Glad to get it in even though it was probably a bit closer to Waterford than I'd have liked. Protein shake, epsom salt bath and 30 mins wearing the compression boots afterwards. I cannot emphasise how good they make the legs feel in comparison to previous, similar runs where I've just slumped onto the couch and ate ****e afterwards. Head cold almost gone though I was concerned about running in the cold as it was literally freezing on this run, no issues after or since.

Tuesday 3rd Dec

4 mile easy on the treadmill @ 8 min/miles. 20 minutes on the rowing machine + 30 mins S&C. Doing weighted calf raises and glue and hamstring work out with resistance band. Have also been doing this work out which was recommended here eons ago-http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/cms/

Wednesday 4th Dec

Club session- 2x(800 x 2 off 3 mins + 2x200 off 45's) w/warm up and down. 5 miles total around a mucky pitch.
Ran at 80% effort with Saturday in mind. Used the compression boots for 30 mins after a shower whilst sucking on a protein shake and watching the football.

Had a rub down with the physio this morning, legs feel good. Weight down to 77kgs, I was 83.5kgs at the end of July so that's moving in the right direction. Had 3 people say I've lost a lot of weight recently.....wait till they see me with another 4kgs off! I suppose I need to find out what my correct/optimum weight is so as not to be too light and impact training negatively. Anybody know how to calculate that?

Today marks the start of the Hanson plan for Manchester. Will probably do some easy miles later and again tomorrow with a couple of strides and give Waterford a lash before picking up the plan properly next week.

healy1835

Best of luck with the training block for Manchester. Slightly disconcerting when there are people starting training blocks for your goal race 4 weeks before you are :eek:

sideswipe

healy1835 wrote: »

Best of luck with the training block for Manchester. Slightly disconcerting when there are people starting training blocks for your goal race 4 weeks before you are :eek:

I know that feeling! If it’s any consolation the plan has less miles in it for the first 4 weeks than I’ve been running;)

sideswipe

Man plans, god laughs......

In the last ten years the only time I've not gone out for a run over a weekend has been because I was recovering from a marathon. Like the proverbial bus two such weekends have arrived one after the other.

Friday 6th Dec

Second run of the plan was another easy 6 miler @ 8:17 min/mi

Heart rate was up considerably for this. Was still planning on heading to Waterford and had all the gear laid out ready to go as I hit the hay early. Two hours later I was awake in a cold sweat with the shivers. Having not been sick in anyway for two years it seems the body was making up for lost time. I knew Waterford was out of the question. It turned out to be a pretty miserable weekend as the whole body ached, more worryingly I felt chesty for the first time.......seems this was a step up from mere manflu.

Antibiotics deployed and I sat around feeling sorry for myself seeing all the weekend runs and Waterford results from friends flying in on Strava:mad:

So more of a sickness log than training log at the moment. Have to prioritise getting healthy again now. Not too concerned about missing the first weekend as it was only two easy runs and I've been pretty much shadowing the plan for two weeks as a pre-cursor.*

Another easy six today which I know I shouldn't do, first session tomorrow of 12x400 is killing me!

Think I'll just have to skip the first week and join in next week when I've run through the antibiotics and am hopefully (finally) better.


* Just had a look back at strava and the SOS sessions in the 4 weeks before starting the plan looked like this


28th Oct-3rd Nov, post DCM: Off except 2 easy runs the following weekend

4th-10th Nov: 4x800's + 4x200's and 15 miles treadmill (7:50 avg)

11th- 17th Nov: 10 x 200m hill's, 4 mile tempo (6:35 avg), 11 miles easy.

18th- 24th Nov: 8 x 400's, 5 mile treadmill tempo (6:44 avg), 12 miles steady LR pace (7:20 avg)

25th Nov- 1st Dec: 8 x 600's ............. the lurgy kicked in!

5th - 8th Dec: 2(2x800 + 2x 200's) and 5 mile tempo (6:42 avg)

Easy running and cross training on days between the 'something of substance' runs and no complete rest days until I succumbed to the dose.

Now I've written that out in black and white it's no wonder I can't shift the dose.:eek:

I actually thought I was being very calculated and restrained in getting back at it after Dublin,

^^paints a different story:rolleyes:!

sideswipe

Back on track.......hopefully!

Started back into the plan on Monday. Easy 6 miles around Central Park in NYC. Lots of walking, shopping, sightseeing and eating. Was supposed to do 8 x 600’s on Tuesday- wind, sleet and snow had me on the treadmill as I only had t-shirts and was keen not to end up relapsing again.

Did 600 on 400 off as a way of getting back into the harder stuff.

More air travel on Wednesday saw me stuck between two people that had me thinking I was on a tv prank show!
A nice Mexican lady who took up all of her own seat and half of mine and a personal hygiene intolerant gent who ‘smoked’ a large piece of smelly jerky for the entire flight from New York to Florida.
Had the first tempo run of the Hanson plan yesterday and went into it thinking if I couldn’t manage it I’d pick a new marathon later than Manchester and do a full reset on the plan.
Got up yesterday and a storm over night had caused temps to plummet- 7 degrees and the natives were walking around in ski gear. Perfect conditions for a run and was delighted to nail the session with 6 miles @ 6:45 min/mi.
7 miles easy today and feel I’m back to normal.
A local half marathon on Sunday has me tempted to run it as a long run, will play it by ear.

sideswipe

OK, I guess another of my new years resolutions should be to keep the log up to date!

I knew the Christmas/New year period would be a challenge. Lots of travel and pitfalls of the season are behind me now and I hopefully have a clear run on Manchester in 13 weeks.

I finally recovered from the dose from hell and had a decent couple of weeks running wise over the Christmas period. Got all the Hanson sessions in which I found hard enough in the heat and humidity of Florida but got through them.

I'm finding the simplicity of the plan good- Tuesday reps, Thursday tempo and Sunday long run with all easy runs in between.

Highlights:

Tues 24th Dec- 6 x 800 off 400 recovery (3:04 avg)Did this on a beach as it was a better option than the road. Didn't feel like there was much speed in the legs but happy enough with the session.

Thurs 26th Dec- 6 mile tempo (6:50min/mile avg) Warm, humid, hungover and tough. Did this on a 2 mile loop stopping for a drink every lap. Was glad it was over.

Sat & Sun 28/29th Dec- Glad there was no faster paced LR due and ran the prescribed 7 & 8 miles easy.

Tues 31st Dec- 5 x 1k off 400 rec (3:48 avg) still not feeling like I had any speed. Ran this before a 4 hour drive and 8 hour flight. Didn't have to share a plane seat with anybody else thankfully.

Thurs 2nd Jan- 6 mile tempo. (6:42 min/mi average) Final 6 mile tempo before it increases to 7 miles for the next 3 weeks. Ran a little quick but enjoyed the cooler temps.

Sunday 5th Jan- 12 miles @ LR pace (7:17 min/mi avg) Found it difficult to run hard from the off. Was working hard for it all the way which was reflected in the heart rate.

When I started the log my aim was to do everything to make every gain possible to maximise the chances of hitting the goal. I did some S&C work while away but not enough. The diet and hydration also took a hit with American sized portions which has the weight up a couple of kg's.

The aim now is to redouble the efforts with diet, recovery, strength work etc over the coming weeks as the training ramps up.

Singer

Not bad considering the illness and travel! You're well set up for the increase in session length.

sideswipe

Singer wrote: »

Not bad considering the illness and travel! You're well set up for the increase in session length.

Cheers B. Have to say I'm still a little apprehensive about maxing out at 16 miles on the long runs. Am I right in thinking you added a couple of warm up miles to them? Found it hard enough to jump straight into running 7:20 min/mi so was thinking I might do similar.

Singer

sideswipe wrote: »

Cheers B. Have to say I'm still a little apprehensive about maxing out at 16 miles on the long runs. Am I right in thinking you added a couple of warm up miles to them? Found it hard enough to jump straight into running 7:20 min/mi so was thinking I might do similar.

Yeh, I did a mile warmup and occasionally a bit of cool down to get back home too. The most I ran was 18 miles.

Singer

Actually my longest was 17.29 miles: https://www.strava.com/activities/2767162751

If you are worried about milage, add on easy milage during the rest of the week. That counts for more in my opinion, and I think the book's. Don't take a rest day, extend some of the easy runs, run a longer "long" run on the off week when there's no "long" run scheduled (I did between 13-15). I think volume is a relative weakness for you and you'll benefit more from more easy volume than adding on to the prescribed fast long run.

sideswipe

Singer wrote: »

Actually my longest was 17.29 miles: https://www.strava.com/activities/2767162751

If you are worried about milage, add on easy milage during the rest of the week. That counts for more in my opinion, and I think the book's. Don't take a rest day, extend some of the easy runs, run a longer "long" run on the off week when there's no "long" run scheduled (I did between 13-15). I think volume is a relative weakness for you and you'll benefit more from more easy volume than adding on to the prescribed fast long run.

Thanks B, I was actually reading about adding miles in the book at the weekend and it's exactly as you suggest.
Looking at the plan some of the longer tempo's are pretty much long runs as is. 10m tempo + 2 mile wu & cd is a quality medium long run. I've been doing a few easy recovery miles on the rest days with some S&C work. I think I'll switch the S&C to the harder days to keep easy days easy and make sure I'm as fresh as possible between speed workout to tempos.

The next couple of weeks will tell a lot I feel. Not sure if I'm overreaching but I'm damn near close. The Garmin suggested 60 hours recovery after 12 miles at 7:17 min/mi on Sunday:eek:

Definitely starting to feel some of that fatigue accumulating!

Monday 6/1
Ran the scheduled 6 miles on the treadmill keeping it very much in the recovery range after the Sunday LR. The legs actually felt pretty good. Did a few minutes work on the glutes and hamstrings afterwards.

Tuesday 7/1
Hanson session 1200 x 4 w/ wu & cd
Was not looking forward to this. I actually think I've found the speed workouts the hardest of all the runs in the Hanson plan so far.
I had a window just before lunch to get it done after a morning meeting. The gear was in the boot as I drove away from the meeting, sideways wind and rain meant I needed two firm hands on the stirring wheel.....the thoughts of reps had the inner voices at war.
Got changed in a pub car park. Anybody seeing me shirtless with the wind rocking the car definitely got the wrong idea:pac:
Opened the door and the wind nearly took it clean off the hinges, heaved it closed and braced myself against the tempest. It was like I was on the deck of a Deadliest Catch crabbing trawler. Struggled to open my eyes how the hell was I going to do reps in this! I got back in the car.

Was about to drive off when I just said screw it, I needed to use the only running window I had. So I got back out and leaned into the wind and shuffled off debating doing an easy run and moving the session a day.
Had the session programmed in the garmin and selected it anyway until I decided.
1.5 mile warm up beeped, now or never......f**k it, lets go.
first 1200m rep started at the bottom of a hill into a head wind! What doesn't kill you makes you stronger can still really hurt.

Got through the session and was never as glad to get back in the car. Had that nice post session feeling of achievement for toughing it out on the way home as the rain lashed off the windscreen.
Paces were ok, honestly think 6 min/miles is my max speed but happy enough given the conditions. I might start adding some strides to one of the easy runs to help with the leg turnover.

1200 reps:
1. 4:34
2. 4:28
3. 4:33
4. 4:29

HR varied from 177 bpm on the first to 184 bpm on the last so was working hard.

Protien shake post run and some light stretching, epsom salt bath and 30 mins in compression boots last night with a view being firmly on recovery before the first 7 mile tempo of the plan tomorrow. Legs feeling good this morning so hopefully the focus on recovery is paying off.

shotgunmcos

I remember dreading that session too last year but once you set off, you are in. Kudos for embracing it. In the bank now

You are half way through the speed segment. The pyramid next week looks worse than it is.

The switch over to the "strength" session is a really nice transition from the speed.

Interesting from your posts, my own experience of the plan and other threads I have read, that everyone seems to dread the speed sessions. I wonder if its because the Hansons method puts them into the start of the plan/cycle and you are not doing them closer to peak fitness (and smashing them out with high fives and injury risks )

sideswipe

shotgunmcos wrote: »

I remember dreading that session too last year but once you set off, you are in. Kudos for embracing it. In the bank now

You are half way through the speed segment. The pyramid next week looks worse than it is.

The switch over to the "strength" session is a really nice transition from the speed.

Interesting from your posts, my own experience of the plan and other threads I have read, that everyone seems to dread the speed sessions. I wonder if its because the Hansons method puts them into the start of the plan/cycle and you are not doing them closer to peak fitness (and smashing them out with high fives and injury risks )

I think thats the nail on the head. I'm not dreading the strength stuff as much having done the McMillian 10k plan a few times. MP -10 seconds should feel easier than McMillan's 10k paces. Having said that, those 10k sessions were well spread out every 2 week with generous recoveries. The Hanson ones will be in the middle of other SOS sessions so I won't be taking them for granted

I read through your log for the build up to Limerick last night.... belated kudos! A great read and very helpful.

sideswipe

Wednesday 8th Jan: 4 miles recovery.

Did laps of the pitch during club training. Before starting the plan I had contemplated doing club sessions instead of the Hanson reps but decided against it as it would mean pushing the tempo till Fridays and the LR to Monday which wouldn't work out. My daughter trains with the juniors so it's easy to head down and run a recovery between Tuesday reps and Thursday tempo while she's training. Got chatting at one point and forgot to un-pause the watch and then ran a little too fast which spiked the HR

Thursday 9th Jan: 7 miles tempo wu & cd.
Legs felt fresh enough as I started into this. Slightly down hill with a breeze on my back gave me a false sense of ease which changed when I turned to face an up hill drag into the breeze. The heart rate was high...too high, I'm hoping that it's a combination of having Tuesdays session still effecting me as well as the fact I'm aiming to run the tempos under sub 3 pace, most have been 6:45 avg per mile. Average HR was 173 BPM which is the same as last weeks tempo and very close to my lactate threshold. I ran Frankfurt a couple of years ago at that average heart rate so I'm not overly concerned (yet). I'm hoping the effort will become easier as the weeks progress. Either that or I'm overcooking it already. Might run next weeks tempo at bang on sub three pace to see what difference it makes. Might also try a full rest day as prescribed the day before the tempo as I haven't taken a rest day in 3 weeks.
10 miles total. 7 miles tempo @ 6:45 avg, Bpm 173

sideswipe

Friday 10th January, 6 miles easy.
Made sure to do this slow after yesterday’s tempo. Legs felt good and effort was low. Did some glute and hamstring work with some foam rolling and 30 mins in compression boots last night, the focus on recovery is definitely helping to keep the legs fresher between sessions.
6 miles @ 8:30 HR 145 avg

sideswipe

Saturday 11th Jan: 10 mile @ 7:30min/mi avg
Wasn't looking forward to this from my warm bed as the wind howled outside but was meeting up with a running buddy so drove off to meet up with him. As usual conditions weren't as bad as they seemed from behind glass. Having said that we ran 5 miles out and then turned into a head wind that nearly stopped us in our tracks. Great to have company and really enjoyed the run. Not really sure how fast I should be running according to Hanson on the non 'LR' weeks.

Sunday 12th Jan: 8 miles @ 7:50 min/mi avg
Again not too sure how easy I should be running these, may have been a bit quick. Down in Tipp at the in-laws for a delayed Christmas shindig. Not feeling the love after a late night but was glad once I was out- lovely windfree run.

Decent weeks running so happy enough, the SOS sessions keep on coming though!

shotgunmcos

The non LR weeks are an easy 10m. I ran them at the steady side of easy so 7:35ish. Where SOS LRs were 7:10-7:15

sideswipe

Cheers, I was unsure about the easy aerobic a&b. I think I’m reading it right that the easy a is the pace for runs after SOS session’s, so therefore more of a recovery run?

Singer

My non-SOS not-long Sunday runs were:
13.5 miles @ 8:44
15.7 miles @ 7:50
14.3 miles @ 8:31
13.4 miles @ 8:21

Basically around 2 hours on feet, and the pace was depending on how I was feeling and was a good (and book recommended) way of getting more miles in. I'd slow down some of those runs!

sideswipe

Singer wrote: »

My non-SOS not-long Sunday runs were:
13.5 miles @ 8:44
15.7 miles @ 7:50
14.3 miles @ 8:31
13.4 miles @ 8:21

Basically around 2 hours on feet, and the pace was depending on how I was feeling and was a good (and book recommended) way of getting more miles in. I'd slow down some of those runs!

Thanks for that B, I’ll have to listen to the body to make sure I don’t overcook the nonSOS longer runs alright.

AuldManKing

Late to the party in this log - then I discover that I follow you on Strava.
Best of luck with the training.


Good to have another Boardsie coming to Manchester.

sideswipe

Cheers A, only put your Boards name to your real one recently! Didn't realise you were doing Manchester, good stuff. Speaking of which I must book flights, seems theres a certain Manchester City V Liverpool match on that weekend that might affect prices when the tv schedule is announced.

sideswipe

Monday 13th Jan: 6 miles easy treadmill @7:49 min/mi avg, HR 135bpm.

The effort on the treadmill is way easier than 'real' running. Good way of getting the miles in while not overdoing the day before or day after a hard session.
Did 20 mins on the rower and 20 mins S&C. Had an epsom salt bath and wore the compression boots for half an hour while sitting in my ass groove in front of the tv. From getting my running gear on to finishing up with the compression boots took about two and half hours which is a fair time investment, legs felt fresh for the pyramid session last night though. Wife thinks I've lost it, sitting in front of the tv with space boots is slightly outside normal I suppose:pac:

Tuesday 14th Jan: Hanson Pyramid 400-800-1200-1600-1200-800-400 off 400 jog. Warm up and down 8.6 miles total @ 7:14 avg

I had intended to do this during daylight in a better location, or rather on a better surface. Half the loop is a dark, uneven cracked concrete road with puddles and traffic, the other half is a perfect well lit running surface.
My running window got pushed till after dark so had to make the most of the location and time I had available. Started into the shorter reps on the good surface after 1.5 mile warm up-

400- 1:24 (5:41/mi)
800- 3:01 (6:06/mi)
1200- 4:31 (6:04/mi)
1600- 5:59 (6:01/mi)
1200- 4:32 (6:05/mi)
800- 2:56 (5:55/mi)
400- 1:24 (5:41/mi)

Happy enough overall, paces a bit all over the place in non ideal conditions but was glad to have it done.

Still feel I'm lacking speed after only focusing on marathon type training for 3 years now. After this training block I definitely intend focusing on shorter stuff for a while to sharpen that pencil.

Had a protein shake afterwards to kick start recovery, previously I probably wouldn't have eaten anything after a session like this until I'd driven home and had a shower. It would probably be an hour later before I'd eat anything. This new 'do everything possible to recover for the next session' has been a bit of an eye opener to areas where I was doing myself no favours. Into the ass groove and compression boots again after dinner while I booked flights and hotel for Manchester!

sideswipe

Wednesday 15th Jan: 4 miles recovery @ 8:47 min/mi avg, HR 144bpm.

Plan has Wednesdays as a rest day. Down at club training with my daughter so it's a case of sit in the car and wait or get a couple of easy miles in. I do miss doing the session with the rest of the club but don't miss doing it on a soft GAA pitch. I've done sessions there in the past where you sink to your ankles in mud, it's hard to run fast and leaves my legs in bits the next day. Even doing easy laps last week left my calves tight for the tempo next day so I decided to do the recovery on the road this week. Heart rate was down 10bpm for a similar pace which shows how much more effort it required to run on the soft ground.

Thursday 16th Jan: 7 mile Tempo @6:25 min/mi avg w/wu & cd, 11 miles total, HR 170bpm.

Happy birthday to me. Woke up a year older as the wind and rain lashed the house. Had planned work around taking the morning off to get the tempo done early. After nearly getting blown away on the school run I had a decision to make- go out in the monsoon or hit the treadmill. Took 20 minutes of wrestling with the two options but sided with the treadmill in the end.
Did the warm up and and went into the tempo section with the intention of getting the HR up to the tempo effort from last week as quick as possible and ignoring the pace. Used the incline at 4% and got up the the required HR after 2 miles and kept it there for the 7 miles. I was probably wetter inside than I would have been out in the rain at the end. Sky sports had repeat highlights of Liverpool v Barca from last season so I left that on which made the time pass nicely. I actually watched that match live on the treadmill at the time and covered 15.5 miles!

The other half got me a Garmin Fenix 6 for my birthday so looking forward to playing around with that.

Laineyfrecks

Happy Birthday to you

shotgunmcos

Happy birthday! Thats a whole lotta watch, nice one!

sideswipe

shotgunmcos wrote: »

Happy birthday! Thats a whole lotta watch, nice one!

Cheers, think I’ve taken against the watch already- just ran my scheduled 7 miles easy and it flashed up ‘Training Status: Unproductive’ and ‘Fitness down’

shotgunmcos

sideswipe wrote: »

Cheers, think I’ve taken against the watch already- just ran my scheduled 7 miles easy and it flashed up ‘Training Status: Unproductive’ and ‘Fitness down’

New watches do that. I got a new 645 music off santa and even though it synced with Garmin Connect, the new watch needs to get to know you. It dropped my V02 to 49 and I was unproductive for a week. Give it a week of running to get to know you and it will bring you back up I had a Fenix before, super watch. Takes time to get used to the massive about of functions.

skyblue46

shotgunmcos wrote: »

New watches do that. I got a new 645 music off santa and even though it synced with Garmin Connect, the new watch needs to get to know you. It dropped my V02 to 49 and I was unproductive for a week. Give it a week of running to get to know you and it will bring you back up I had a Fenix before, super watch. Takes time to get used to the massive about of functions.

Sorry for the hijack. I got a 645 Music too and I'm finding the barometric altimeter beyond useless. My elevation graphs bear little or no resemblance to my routes. Have you kept an eye on yours by any chance?

OOnegative

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack. I got a 645 Music too and I'm finding the barometric altimeter beyond useless. My elevation graphs bear little or no resemblance to my routes. Have you kept an eye on yours by any chance?

That’s because once your Vo2 max goes below 21 it’s of no use!!!!!

pconn062

May I ask what brand of recovery boots do you use? Thanks

sideswipe

pconn062 wrote: »

May I ask what brand of recovery boots do you use? Thanks

I got these ones from Base2Race-

https://shop.base2race.ie/products/air-relax-recovery-boots

They are expensive but half the price of Normatec's

Have been using them now for a couple of months and really find them great.
Are they worth the cost? Hard to say but any that come up for resale on eBay seem to go quick and for good money so I figured I could sell it on if they didn't work out.

sideswipe

skyblue46 wrote: »

Sorry for the hijack. I got a 645 Music too and I'm finding the barometric altimeter beyond useless. My elevation graphs bear little or no resemblance to my routes. Have you kept an eye on yours by any chance?

Still getting to grips with the watch so I can't offer any insight into the altimeter I'm afraid.

Looking at my first couple of runs with it the elevation track seems spot on. I wore my old watch and HRM strap on my long run yesterday to check how they compared data wise. I was really interested in the wrist HRM as I'd only ever used a chest strap before here is the comparison for HR and Elevation.

Fenix 6 with wrist HRM:



Average Heart Rate 163bpm
Elevation gain 129m, Loss 137m


Old Garmin with HRM strap:



Average Heart Rate 158bpm
Elevation Gain 130m, Loss 145m

5bpm is quite a bit. I wore the watch on the inside of my wrist as I have hairy ape arms and wasn't confident that the readings would be thrown off by that. Plus I figured the skin is thinner on the inside of the wrist and I had heard others suggest this before.

I think I'll continue to use the strap going forward.

sideswipe

Friday 17th Jan: 7 miles easy @ 8:19 min/mi avg, HR 148 bpm.

Feeling the effects of curry, too much wine and birthday cake. Stunning weather, enjoyed the fact that it was an easy run day!


Saturday 18th Jan: 8 miles easy @ 8:18 min/mi avg, HR 151 bpm.

Just getting the miles in while leaving something in the tank for Sunday's quicker LR. Did some light stretching. Jumped in the hot tub for 20 mins and rolled the **** out of my calves and hamstrings with a massage stick and wore the recovery boots for 30 mins while eating lunch. Legs felt in decent shape after a tough enough week with the long run to come.

Sunday 19th Jan: 14 mile LR @ 7:20 min/mi avg, HR 158 bpm.

Beautiful cold morning. Had breakfast and jumped in the tub to get the blood flowing before getting the gear on. I find lashing into MP + 30 seconds from the off hard. Getting the blood flow going first makes a huge difference. Legs felt good as I took off. Pace was a little up and down as I tried to latch onto the correct pace. Settled down after a few miles and the first half of the run was enjoyable. Stomach started to feel a little off and had to take an unscheduled toilet stop after about 7 miles. Got going again but my hamstring stated to feel tight and I started to feel tired. Second half of the run was a bit of a drag after that. Had to stop again to use the loo, got going again and was glad to finish at the end.

Since I started into the Hanson plan, the 'short' long runs have been a concern. This 14 miler definitely felt tougher than some easy 20 LSR's I've done in the past. It took me 1 hour 42 minutes. So the 16 miler, or longest run, will take about 2 hrs. It still frightens me that on race day I'll have an hour more running at 30 seconds a mile faster pace to contend with!!!

Needed to get out of the house to escape a manic play date and watch the Pool v ManU game. So in the spirit of keeping hard days hard I took to the man cave and did 30 mins on the rowing followed by 30 mins S&C in the afternoon while watching the game.

Happy with another decent week quality wise, distance increasing too with 59 miles total. Legs, hamstrings in particular, feel in need of a rub down so will try to get one in this week.