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Freight rail in Ireland

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  • 21-11-2019 1:38am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,795 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Anyone know how much (if any) freight still runs on IE? Also, I'd like to see and get some pics of the Bord Na Mona trains before all that winds down in December 2020 when the peat power plants close. Do those run to schedule?

    Thanks in advance.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 68,505 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Wood and containers from Mayo to Waterford Belview and Dublin respectively and Tara Mines to Dublin. That's it at the moment.

    BnM schedules wouldn't be public. There will still be some turf harvesting after the power stations close, until briquette and peat moss sales stop which is a year or two later I think. And we haven't actually got a public date for BnMs own power station (Edenderry) to close yet


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    L1011 wrote: »
    Wood and containers from Mayo to Waterford Belview and Dublin respectively and Tara Mines to Dublin. That's it at the moment.

    BnM schedules wouldn't be public. There will still be some turf harvesting after the power stations close, until briquette and peat moss sales stop which is a year or two later I think. And we haven't actually got a public date for BnMs own power station (Edenderry) to close yet

    The timber only runs to Waterford West..

    IWT Ballina-Dublin Port, 6 trains per week
    Coillte Westport-Waterford West, 3 trains per week
    Tara mines, navan-Dublin Port, 15 trains per week

    Also not revenue earning but IE run new steel rail trains from Belview to Portlaoise.. About 1 train a week as required


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭dave 27


    Irish Cement have a big factory outside Limerick, is that rail not used anymore?

    I remember a few years ago in the boom seeing the trains leave going through one of the suburbs and it must have been about a mile long!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    dave 27 wrote: »
    Irish Cement have a big factory outside Limerick, is that rail not used anymore?

    I remember a few years ago in the boom seeing the trains leave going through one of the suburbs and it must have been about a mile long!


    Irish Cement traffic is gone for years now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,204 ✭✭✭dave 27


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Irish Cement traffic is gone for years now.

    Do they just use trucks now? :confused:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 25 thewexman93


    Isn't it the height of Irishness that the only port in the country owned by Irish Rail, doesn't have rail freight facilities


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    dave 27 wrote: »
    Do they just use trucks now? :confused:


    Yes.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    Isn't it the height of Irishness that the only port in the country owned by Irish Rail, doesn't have rail freight facilities

    Not really, makes perfect sense if you think about it logically


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 thewexman93


    Not really, makes perfect sense if you think about it logically

    What's your logical reasoning then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    What's your logical reasoning then?

    I’ve done a few posts on this and other fora already.

    Short list:
    -No demand for it
    - Rosslare is a RO/Ro port, road trailers can’t be carried by rail in Ireland
    - Lack of capacity on rail lines to from port
    - Rosslare mainly serves south east and South of country, short length of hauls don’t make rail viable

    You might not like to hear this, but in the general scheme of things Rosslare is a small port, with very little population or demand in the local area.. Road transport and Ro/Ro shipping is becoming more expensive for a number of reasons(driver shortage, fuel costs, Road tolls) so this will likely continue


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭easypazz


    What's your logical reasoning then?

    Irish rail primarily carry people, with a small bit of cargo.

    50 years ago rosslare would have carried a lot of foot passengers who arrived by train, rather than ever being a cargo hub.

    I presume at one stage it carried mail on the ferries, and maybe some small freight, but I dont think rosslare was ever much of a cargo hub.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 thewexman93


    But the lack of facilities and investment is exactly the reason why it isn't much of a cargo hub. If the facilities were there, no doubt it would see increased demand. And Rosslare is linked by rail to every part of the country via waterford line and via dublin line.


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    But the lack of facilities and investment is exactly the reason why it isn't much of a cargo hub. If the facilities were there, no doubt it would see increased demand. And Rosslare is linked by rail to every part of the country via waterford line and via dublin line.

    But why ship something to Rosslare to then rail it to somewhere else in the country, when there is probably a port closer to you destination.. in freight, cheaper is nearly always better.. And moving by sea if cheaper that by rail or road..


  • Registered Users Posts: 25 thewexman93


    A container arriving in rosslare from france would be quicker to get anywhere in the country than from France to Dublin.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    Isn't it the height of Irishness that the only port in the country owned by Irish Rail, doesn't have rail freight facilities


    When the major works on Rosslare was done in the late 1980s there was ample scope for a rail connections and developments - but at the time Irish Rail was planning to make Athlone the last railway station in Ireland and close down everything else. This is why they moved the station to the Leinster Side of the Shannon.

    That is 100% true. An IE engineer told me so. He seemed quite shocked when I asked him, but what about population increases in the future. He was literally stunned.

    It was that moment I stared into the soul of the CIE Borg and wished I hadn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,328 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    Isn't it the height of Irishness that the only port in the country owned by Irish Rail, doesn't have rail freight facilities
    The Fishguard and Rosslare Harbour Railways Company is a joint UK-Irish mess to be fair...


  • Registered Users Posts: 1 canuck22


    The timber only runs to Waterford West..

    IWT Ballina-Dublin Port, 6 trains per week
    Coillte Westport-Waterford West, 3 trains per week
    Tara mines, navan-Dublin Port, 15 trains per week

    Also not revenue earning but IE run new steel rail trains from Belview to Portlaoise.. About 1 train a week as required

    The IWT "Liner" seems to run under symbols K800/K801/K802/K803 depending on the day.

    Could anyone provide what symbols the timber/Coilite, mines, or steel trains run under?

    Lance Gleich


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    How are rail freight operations faring during the Covid-19 lockdown?

    Is ore still being extracted from Tara Mines or has it been suspended? and similarly Coca-Cola in Ballina, and timber from Coillte in Mayo to Waterford?


  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭andrewfaulk


    tabbey wrote: »
    How are rail freight operations faring during the Covid-19 lockdown?

    Is ore still being extracted from Tara Mines or has it been suspended? and similarly Coca-Cola in Ballina, and timber from Coillte in Mayo to Waterford?

    Tara mines, still operating, about 10 trains per week from a usual 14 operating

    IWT, still operating, may drop off in a week or two down to 4-5 trains per week

    Timber, suspended, last train ran on 9th April ex Westport but is only being offloaded in Waterford today.. May resume in the next week or two


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,095 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Tara mines, still operating, about 10 trains per week from a usual 14 operating

    IWT, still operating, may drop off in a week or two down to 4-5 trains per week

    Timber, suspended, last train ran on 9th April ex Westport but is only being offloaded in Waterford today.. May resume in the next week or two

    The timber plant is closed until at least next week. The Tara's have been slacking in recent times owing to a slight slowdown in processing but that's over a year and not Covid19 related. There was a renewal of the unloading facility recently which led to a cessation in the traffic.

    There has been a few PW trains of late, with the new tamper seen recently in Mostrim and the works trains between Waterford and Limerick having worked through last week.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    A friend on mine asked about the Irish Cement bubble freights the other day, and I can't remember last time I saw them running.
    Have they been replaced by a different type? Or has it moved to road freight?


  • Registered Users Posts: 523 ✭✭✭91wx763


    Effects wrote: »
    A friend on mine asked about the Irish Cement bubble freights the other day, and I can't remember last time I saw them running.
    Have they been replaced by a different type? Or has it moved to road freight?

    The small bubbles were rather knackered anyway but they were all cut up when IÉ "withdrew" from the cement business in 2009. The bigger bogie tank wagons are derelict beside the line out of Limerick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,095 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    Effects wrote: »
    A friend on mine asked about the Irish Cement bubble freights the other day, and I can't remember last time I saw them running.
    Have they been replaced by a different type? Or has it moved to road freight?

    Cement traffic ceased in 2009 in and around the time that the recession kicked in. Last I heard the cement tanks remain unused in Limerick and could be returned to traffic if needs be, unlikely and all that it would happen again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,505 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Once a company moves to road, the sunk cost of road vehicles and any new distribution methods means that going back to rail is exceptionally unlikely. Hence the ILDA strike is responsible for more loss of rail freight than anything else put together really; but also why Irish Cement won't be going back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,095 ✭✭✭✭Losty Dublin


    L1011 wrote: »
    Hence the ILDA strike is responsible for more loss of rail freight than anything else put together really; but also why Irish Cement won't be going back.

    Complete misnomer. Those freight flows that ceased or diminished after the ILDA were well on their way anyway. As it is, ILDA drivers even undertook to work some flows under the shadow of market collapse; the flows still went anyway.

    Easier to blame the illegal strikes than it was to blame government policy, the evolving marketplace and the cut yer neck that is road haulage. I say this as somebody who has a lot of contempt for Ogle and as somebody who happens to know a few people who were ILDA members at the time and who knows a little of their side of things.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,505 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That's a pathetic attempt at blame shifting if I ever saw one.

    Patchy service is worse than none when the alternative is reliable. ILDA pushed customers to use road transit and gave zero reason for them to come back.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,070 ✭✭✭Rulmeq


    L1011 wrote: »
    That's a pathetic attempt at blame shifting if I ever saw one.

    Patchy service is worse than none when the alternative is reliable. ILDA pushed customers to use road transit and gave zero reason for them to come back.
    Brendan Ogle needed to make a name for himself some how


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    Rulmeq wrote: »
    Brendan Ogle needed to make a name for himself some how

    Correct.

    He is a pure psychopath.


  • Registered Users Posts: 777 ✭✭✭Board Walker


    dave 27 wrote: »
    Do they just use trucks now? :confused:

    Yep. And obviously the Gypsum is not brought from Kingscourt to the cement factory either


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  • Registered Users Posts: 34,565 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    But the lack of facilities and investment is exactly the reason why it isn't much of a cargo hub. If the facilities were there, no doubt it would see increased demand.

    "Build it, and they will come" :rolleyes:

    Many, many, many more useful places where Irish Rail should be investing, where extra capacity is already sorely needed.

    As it is, ILDA drivers even undertook to work some flows under the shadow of market collapse

    Business needs certainty - not "we'll work sometime, if we feel like it."

    Fingal County Council are certainly not competent to be making decisions about the most important piece of infrastructure on the island. They need to stick to badly designed cycle lanes and deciding on whether Mrs Murphy can have her kitchen extension.



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