Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy railway

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120787784#Comment_120787784

It could, if the train reversed,which is done in Killkenny and Killarney.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797407#Comment_120797407

With the present layout the big problem is with Down trains (i.e from the Dublin direction onto the branch). They first have to stop in the Down loop, then reverse out over a crossover onto the Up road, then reverse again into the branch bay platform. Then they have to change direction for a 3rd time to proceed towards Nenagh.

Much more complicated than Kilkenny or Killarney, due to a totally mad track layout. You would need a new facing crossover on the Dubblin side ot the station to solve this.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797407#Comment_120797407

it's not a simple reversal in the ballybroaphy case though.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797463#Comment_120797463

For a Limerick bound service, yes. It would need an extra cross over on the Dublin Side of the station.

The_Wanderer

The July gallery kicks off with a selection of photos from Wednesday 5th July 2023:

Thanks to a tip off last night, I ventured out this morning to see the unusual sight of a pair of 2600 Class units on the Nenagh Branch covering for unavailable 2800 Class.

Click https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2023-photos/July-2023/i-SMtdSCn to view.

The_Wanderer

Friday 7th July 2023:

After the excitement of a Cork based 2600 Class on the Nenagh branch last Wednesday, normality had returned to the branch when 2804 + 2803 were provided for the 1710 Limerick - Ballybrophy on Friday. 41 passengers were on the train leaving Limerick which is just under a 50% load factor for a 2 car 2800. The return working from Ballybrophy at 1905 had 45 passengers. Click https://thewandererphotos.smugmug.com/2023-photos/July-2023/i-QrFJXBD to view.

seekers

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02sKiDCs64fVPXK5vdDYbwefrWsYytHUqoc6tHBoyKR4mUkQ9hvLFbGQW14BpsNhjml&id=100064692670793

nigra

I returned from Nenagh to Colbert station last week on the last service of the day(19.55) with my 3 children. The train was about 10 minutes overdue- in fairness it made up the time on the way into Limerick and that is not the reason for this rant. Nenagh station was deserted and we were the only ones on the platform, so there was no way of knowing or asking whether the service was delayed or cancelled. When i checked online on the Live Map for realtime position of the train i was surprised to see that the train supposedly had already passed us by and was on the way to Limerick. I suppose i had generally thought that there was a GPS tracker which would give up to date locational info about the train- but clearly this isn't the case and it is not always accurate. As i walked out of the station to make alternative arrangements... thankfully the train arrived.

Surely at a minimum there should be some digital screens in stations on this line? Plenty of bus stops already have them these days. (And surely the Live Map on the Iarnod Eireann app should actually be accurate- but i digress...)

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857745#Comment_120857745

That live tracker thing should be taken down. It is not correct at all. Even on the Cork line.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857745#Comment_120857745

With manual signalling on that line, digital screens won’t make much difference.

Poxyshamrock

It’s the same thing at a lot of stations. Ennis has the most recent digital displays and shows the train as ‘on time’ even when it’s not. The train then disappears from the screen after its ‘scheduled’ departure time even if it has not yet arrived at the station, leaving all on the platform clueless about how long a wait there may be.

ohographite

A couple of weeks ago there was discussion on this thread about whether this railway should have direct services to Dublin or not.

It made me realise one thing, which is that I'm unfamiliar with what effect the need to change trains has on the amount of people who use a service. It's probably fair to say that a direct train journey would be made by more passengers than the same journey if it required a change, but I have no idea what the difference in passenger numbers would be.

Is anyone here aware of any studies carried out in Ireland about this matter?

Deedsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120866732#Comment_120866732

Can only speak for this line but passengers and potential passengers were recently surveyed. Having to change trains was far from the biggest complaint people had.

The low frequency of trains that operate on the line was the biggest complaint, followed by the low speed of the trains.

People in Roscrea & Cloughjordan were complaining a lot about the fact that there was no early morning train for them to Limerick like there is for Nenagh, Birdhill and Castleconnell.

There were a few complaints about Portlaoise being a stop on the morning service but not on the return evening se

seekers

I see there are engineering works today between Killonan and Birdhill.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120860409#Comment_120860409

Yes, this is the case in Oranmore station, which is less than 15 years old.

I have written to IE, of course no reply.

Geuze

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120797456#Comment_120797456

I'd like to see a map or layout that illustrates this.

Economics101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121030685#Comment_121030685

Zoom in really close on this map and you will see what you are looking for: https://www.openrailwaymap.org/

Paddico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120788807#Comment_120788807

I'm not getting your post fully.

I for one would much prefer to go from Nenagh to Dublin without having to change and wait half an hour for a connection from Cork.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108806#Comment_121108806

But you don’t have to wait half an hour.

The connections at Ballybrophy towards Dublin are all less than 5 minutes.

Paddico

Why have a stop there at all. Thats my point.

Sometimes its 5 mins, sometimes longer if the Cork train is delayed and even vice versa.

The line is slow enough as it is. Just adds more time stopping for a station serving a town of less than 300.

LXFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108925#Comment_121108925

Quite simply, the same unit and crew could shuttle backwards and forwards along the branch line and deliver a much better frequency than if you use a direct train.

Direct trains would require multiple sets, and multiple crews, pushing up the cost.

You'd also need to remodel Ballybrophy completely at significant cost.

As to the local population at Ballybrophy, that’s a bit of a red herring. It is a junction station but one which does serve an area much larger than that immediately around it as a rail head.

Paddico

I will all cost money, nothing cheap in Ireland anymore but I do get your point.

Not suggesting to can Ballybrophy but a direct line sounds more encouraging for passenger growth. I know the Cork line is already quite busy but the option could be there, even for direct trains from Limerick if needed on special occasions.

On a separate point, the speed of that line is still far far too in adequate but no politician or engineer is going to read this thread.

The_Wanderer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108806#Comment_121108806

As a regular user of the route I've never had to wait 30 minutes for a connection off a Dublin train. Would be helpful if you bothered to actually read the timetable before putting up clueless posts.

GerardKeating

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121108806#Comment_121108806

The timtable for the two trains per day show less than five minutes wait in either direction.

While the track layout could support a direct service to Dublin, some track layout changes would be needed for a return servce.

Any "investment" in the service might be better placed in either

• increasing frequency of the existing shuttle service, one service in the morning and a return in the evening is not a great service,
• Increasing Line speeds a bit maybe.

dowlingm

We have been over this subject (direct Dublin trains from the branch) but Alan Kelly tried to do it on the cheap in 2012 while minister. The trains left Limerick at an absurd hour and there was an issue with the signal staffs accumulating in Ballybrophy because there wasn’t a returning train IIRC. Even though trials were done the train did not integrate well into the morning commuter flow to Heuston and delays ensued.

https://www.alankelly.ie/blog/2012/03/05/nenaghdublin-direct-train/

like the Branch generally, there is only so much that can be expected unless serious money is spent. unfortunately the branch only has the political heft to be kept open and broadly functional, not improved to the point where it is competitive with M7 buses or the Dublin Cork mainline

andrewfaulk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121123466#Comment_121123466

But also shows that an effort was made, and the demand wasn't there for a direct service.. The ICR set could likely be used more effectively elsewhere also, which is an opportunity cost of running a direct service with the Branch.. I doubt much has changed in the past 11 years, the Branch probably has a slightly higher running speed but rolling stock is tighter than 2012..

The_Wanderer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121126358#Comment_121126358

Demand is there for a service which is of use to people. Not what was provided in 2011.

The Alan Kelly express (as it was nicknamed), was a political stunt to all intents and purposes to be seen to be doing something, but not the right thing. The branch had a 30mph limit and journey times were slow. The money spent in operating that service would have been far better spent in improving the infrastructure, which has since happened with 15 mins knocked off the schedule. Still too long put better than nothing, and it's a start in the right direction.

With a consistent and decent line speed of 60mph the end to end journey time would be about 75 mins give or take. That's Nenagh to Ballybrophy in approx 35 mins which is a gamechanger. Provider a service and it will be used.

Paddico

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121112565#Comment_121112565

Alright Wanderer.

I use the Lmk to Lmk Jct regularly and there's plenty of delays on the change over.

Chill out for yourself .... its a discussion after all

dowlingm

For the newer among us: the 2012 Boards thread on the direct Limerick-Nenagh-Dublin service. Features a train sim video of a train from Dublin’s gyrations through Ballybrophy’s various switches to make it over to the Branch on page 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2056546241/extra-services-for-nenagh-branch/p1