Limerick - Nenagh - Ballybrophy railway

Economics101

It is about one-third of the way between Birdhill and Nenagh, or two-thirds of the way between Nenagh and Birdhill (if you prefer!).

Deedsie

tabbey wrote: »

Where is Cappadine? As in milepost or section.

Attached a screenshot of the townland location. I am sure the area The_Wanderer referenced could easily include areas either side of the Cappadine townland boundaries.

tabbey

Looking at the wanderer's photos of the rail train, the text informs us that the train left Portlaoise and travelled to the drop site via Limerick. So far so good, but returning via Ballybrophy, it had to continue to Lisduff to run around.
It is sad to think that the layout at Ballybrophy is so restricted that a loco can't run around there and head straight back to Portlaoise.
I suppose, if the ballast depot at Lisduff was to close, the train would have to continue to Limerick junction before heading home.

Economics101

No, it could run around in Thurles, another 7.75 miles down the line.

tabbey

Economics101 wrote: »

No, it could run around in Thurles, another 7.75 miles down the line.

It is a relief to know that two crossovers remain at Thurles, but even it is just short of twenty miles from Ballybrophy, mp86.5 compared to 66.75.

So much ballast is delivered to the railway by road now, tipped into ballast wagons at small sidings, that it's almost surprising that Lisduff remains.

goingnowhere

There is a loop at Ballybrophy and it’s perfectly possible to arrive from Nenagh and depart towards Dublin

For a DMU or push pull you arrive into the bay reverse out to the main line and then pull forward into the loop platform and then proceed either Dublin or Cork bound

For loco haul it’s a bit tricker as you now have to propel out onto the mainline as there is no run around on the bay anymore. Then run around at the loop platform

Economics101

Unfortunately the signalling in Ballybrophy does not permit running around. Until a few years ago running around was done, but not strictly in accordance with what the signalling allowed for (increased literal health and safety interpretation of rules). I don't think that alterations to signalling would be all that difficult or expensive.

Deedsie

I emailed a few TD's from constituencies along the line.

Just asking for updates on personal and party positions in relation the investing in and upgrading the Kilonan to Ballybrophy line.

The only one to reply so far was Willie O'Dea.

It is with Minister Ryan at the moment and I know he is in contact with Irish rail a decision will be made on the matter shortly as I understand it and I am in full agreement with you that this line does need investment.


Yours sincerely
Willie O'Dea T.D.

Deedsie

https://m.facebook.com/NorthTipperaryCommunityRailPartnership/photos/a.1709373012704834/2541727416136052/?type=3&source=54&ref=page_internal

I dont have facebook but was able to view that post. They dont seem to post on their twitter account as regularly as facebook.

Just a pic of more CWR being laid yesterday around Kilruane. Between Nenagh and Cloughjordan station.

Pete_Cavan

Deedsie wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/NorthTipperaryCommunityRailPartnership/photos/a.1709373012704834/2541727416136052/?type=3&source=54&ref=page_internal

I dont have facebook but was able to view that post. They dont seem to post on their twitter account as regularly as facebook.

Just a pic of more CWR being laid yesterday around Kilruane. Between Nenagh and Cloughjordan station.

Opened the link on my phone, thought for a minute it was double track.

tabbey

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Opened the link on my phone, thought for a minute it was double track.

Me too, but only for a couple of seconds.

Deedsie

Went for a drive today over the Rathnaleen, Moanfin and Ballygibbon bridges just outside Nenagh . Lots of activity at Ballygibbon.

To my untrained eye the track works seem to be complete at Rathnaleen and Moanfin. Looks like a proper modern rail line at those sections anyway. Again thats just an observation from a totally untrained eye.

Deedsie

https://pureradio.ie/read/60abc75e0e5eb81de02e3572

Article published today from Pure Radio

NEWSSPORTENTERTAINMENTUSEFUL LINKSABOUT US

'Ballybrophy Train Line: Investment Welcome but Returns Essential' – CahillTODAY 16:33

The Ballybrophy to Limerick rail line, which stops in Roscrea, Cloughjordan, Nenagh, Birdhill and Castleconnell, remains closed as works continue to replace old sections of the track with newer, safer continuous welded rail. According to Irish Rail CEO, Jim Meade the line is due to reopen on June 21st, by which time a further five miles of track in the Cloughjordan/Kilruane area should be re-laid. Deputy Jackie Cahill, who recently put down a series of Parliamentary Questions on the line was pleased with this update, however, Deputy Cahill stated that with such significant levels of investment going into the line, commuters locally must see returns through faster line speeds, reduced journey times, and increased volumes of services.

Commenting on this today, the Fianna Fáil T.D. for Tipperary said: "I put down a series of Parliamentary Questions to the Minister for Transport, Eamon Ryan again recently in relation to the Ballybrophy line. The answers I received from the CEO of Iarnród Éireann, Jim Meade are very positive in the sense that they prove the Government's ongoing commitment to the continuation of services on the line through investment going into it, but it is now time that we started seeing returns on investments made.

,

The Parliamentary Questions that Deputy Cahill recently received a response to stated that between 2011 and 2020, a total investment of €45.5million was made in the line. This comprises €22.8million on improvements and upgrades and €22.7million in line maintenance, with Deputy Cahill saying: "While I very much welcome such vast sums of money being invested in transport infrastructure in Tipperary, especially in local rail networks, this investment must be justified.

,

"The best way we can see justification for such large scale investment is for Irish Rail to start running additional services on the line, especially at midday. Services that accommodate commuters who wish to travel to Limerick and Dublin for work or even for a day out must be introduced. Commuter services in and out of Limerick, especially from Nenagh, must be introduced. Above all else, line speeds need to be increased; the laying of continuous welded rail makes this much easier and safer to do. It is incredible to think that it takes two hours to travel from Ballybrophy to Limerick by train in 2021, when it took just over an hour and twenty minutes to make the same journey in the 1960s.

,

"The North Tipperary Community Rail Partnership have been doing an exceptional job locally at highlighting the case for better services on this line for many years now, with their recent campaign securing political good will and unity across the board. I will continue to work with this group and provide any support I can. The local people are behind this campaign and I am too. I welcome this investment but it is essential we now see returns", Cahill concluded.

Pete_Cavan

Deedsie wrote: »

https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/news/nenagh-transport-hub-public-consultation

Tipperary County Council (Nenagh Municipal District) is seeking the views of the public on the proposed development of a Transport Hub at Nenagh Railway Station.

The proposal may include the following measures:

Provision of a fully integrated transport hub at Nenagh Railway Station serving rail and bus passengers

Relocation of the existing bus stops from Kickham Street to Nenagh Railway Station for all Dublin, Limerick and other local bus services – including those provided by Bus Éireann, private operators and Local Link
services

I assume you will be making a submission Deedsie, out of interest are you willing to share what will you be saying as you clearly have a lot of local knowledge? Simply looking at the station itself isn't enough, they need to ensure adequate bus access including bus priority measures if necessary.

Deedsie

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

I assume you will be making a submission Deedsie, out of interest are you willing to share what will you be saying as you clearly have a lot of local knowledge? Simply looking at the station itself isn't enough, they need to ensure adequate bus access including bus priority measures if necessary.

I think its a good idea in theory. I sent an email enquiring about the routes buses would be using in and out of town. There is a new one way system being introduced in the town next year. Which may send buses bound for Limerick up along Sarsfield Street. That street already has traffic travelling way too fast. Its primarily a residential street but there is a vet, a furniture shop, beuticians, hairdressers and a few pubs etc etc and you could easily have cars travelling 80 km/h plus in the middle of a town. Its ridiculous.

I would hope any transport hub plans would take this into consideration and include traffic control measures on that street.

I wouldnt be comfortable in around the rail yard at night time as it is currently set up. Can imagine it would be extremely intimidating for some people waiting for a bus.

At night time some not very nice people spend a lot of time there doing not very nice things.

There is a big project at Arrabawn creamery at the moment. The layout of the roundabout in front of the train station is to significantly change.

4 proper raised zebra crossings are included in those plans. If there is to be a transport hub at the train station it would have to be accessible to all, wheelchair friendly etc and not just for people who can be dropped by car.

So, to sum up, certain streets in the town need traffic calming measures if they are to all of a sudden become bus corridors.

Security in and around the Railyard needs to improve a lot. Garda presence.

And it would have to be easily accessible to all.

Cycling lockers would be a nice additional bonus but thsts just a personal preference.

Pete_Cavan

Deedsie wrote: »

I think its a good idea in theory. I sent an email enquiring about the routes buses would be using in and out of town. There is a new one way system being introduced in the town next year. Which may send buses bound for Limerick up along Sarsfield Street. That street already has traffic travelling way too fast. Its primarily a residential street but there is a vet, a furniture shop, beuticians, hairdressers and a few pubs etc etc and you could easily have cars travelling 80 km/h plus in the middle of a town. Its ridiculous.

I would hope any transport hub plans would take this into consideration and include traffic control measures on that street.

I wouldnt be comfortable in around the rail yard at night time as it is currently set up. Can imagine it would be extremely intimidating for some people waiting for a bus.

At night time some not very nice people spend a lot of time there doing not very nice things.

There is a big project at Arrabawn creamery at the moment. The layout of the roundabout in front of the train station is to significantly change.

4 proper raised zebra crossings are included in those plans. If there is to be a transport hub at the train station it would have to be accessible to all, wheelchair friendly etc and not just for people who can be dropped by car.

So, to sum up, certain streets in the town need traffic calming measures if they are to all of a sudden become bus corridors.

Security in and around the Railyard needs to improve a lot. Garda presence.

And it would have to be easily accessible to all.

Cycling lockers would be a nice additional bonus but thsts just a personal preference.

I wonder is the intention to remove general parking from the station, accommodating numerous buses will take a lot of space. I see the measures it may include basically repeats itself on pick up/drop off and also potentially a taxi rank but no mention of general parking, might not be much space left for it;

Provision of set down and pick up areas at Nenagh Railway Station

Provision of a taxi rank, if required

Parking area for the dropping off and collection of passengers

A remember ready recently about sizable government funding for the Martyr's Road redevelopment. That really should be a opportunity to create good cycling and bus links to the station. Most of the population of the town is to the north so a good local link service to the station should be a priority.

Deedsie

Going back to Kilonan to Ballybrophy railway.

In the article I posted yesterday it suggests the line will not be reopening untill June 21st.

Before reading that I was under the impression it was June 1st it was to reopen.

Be good to get clarity on this.

The Irish Rail website current works section and ticketing indicates it will be June 1st that it reopens.

https://www.irishrail.ie/en-ie/news/irishrail-engineering-works

Engineering works extended to June 7th.

I have no problem with this. I think its great to see any infrastructural improvement on the line.

My personal preference would be that a decision be made to keep it closed and upgrade the entire line to CWR now that they have the majority of it done. Get the CWR rollout complete.

Which should result in speed increases...

Then we can move on to improving sightlines and signalling.

Which should result in further speed increases...

And begin a long term action plan to start a project to eliminate/upgrade/automate level crossings and accomodation gates along the line.

Which should make speed increases that will make it a viable alternative for Limerick Dublin commuters to the Limerick junction line.

Deedsie

Another article published today:

https://tippfm.com/news/transport/ballybrophy-limerick-line-reopen-matter-weeks/

Irish Rail has confirmed that daily services on the Ballybrophy-Limerick rail line will resume on June 21st.

The service, which stops in Roscrea, Cloughjordan, Nenagh and Birdhill, has been off the rails for much of the last 15 months due to the pandemic.

Despite the closure of the Ballybrophy-Limerick rail line, extensive works are continuing to upgrade large portions of the track.

Irish Rail says this currently involves five miles of track renewal, extensive fibre cable works, and bridge works at Ballycahill Bridge near Nenagh.

Calls are continuing for greater services and higher speeds on the route, but Irish Rail spokesperson Barry Kenny has urged caution on such a prospect.

He says that the extensive track renewal will not be the sole determining factor for line speeds, as there are also 126 level crossings on less than 53 miles of track.

He goes on to say that Irish Rail is engaging with the Department of Transport on possible funding to address level crossings and other improvement works which would allow for journey time improvements.

Deedsie

126 level crossings. Great to finally get a complete number. Id love to get a breakdown of when the most recent acc gates and crossings were introduced.

If there are that many in such a short distance surely elimination or combining crossings where possible would have to play a big part in any attempt to sort it. ... over a long period of modernisation.

Deedsie

Discussion on Tipp FM this morning.

Ballybrophy Rail line returns to daily service! #tippFmRadio
http://feeds.soundcloud.com/stream/1055956192-tippfmradio-ballybrophy-rail-line-returns-to-daily-service.mp3

There’s good news for the Ballybrophy rail line with the news that the route will reopen for daily services next month.

There have been ongoing fears for the future of the rail line which has long been on the potential chopping block.

Barry Kenny from Irish Rail and Brendan Sheahan from the North Tipp Community Rail Partnership

Deedsie

Took a few pics at the Tullaheady and Benedine bridges just outside Nenagh this morning. Could someone more knowledgeable confirm based on the pictures that the track in these pics has already been upgraded to CWR?

The_Wanderer

Deedsie wrote: »

Took a few pics at the Tullaheady and Benedine bridges just outside Nenagh this morning. Could someone more knowledgeable confirm based on the pictures that the track in these pics has already been upgraded to CWR?

Yes that is all CWR.

Deedsie

Image of Capparoe Bridge West Towards Birdhill.

I took a photo Eastbound towards Nenagh but its all blurry for some reason.

Markcheese

Wow, that bungalow was built close to the track ..and not much of a fence either ...

Markcheese

Is there a maximum speed that a train can travel on a stretch of line with user operated crossing gates ?
I remember having to use a phone to call in to cross a line in the uk , just 2 ordinary farm gates and a phone either side of a dual track line , no idea what speed the train was traveling but it felt fast as it went by .. 😂

Deedsie

Markcheese wrote: »

Wow, that bungalow was built close to the track ..and not much of a fence either ...

It looks like an adjoining building or garage on streetview. Relatively new build. Doubt they were too concerned about the rail line becoming a frequent flyer when building it.

Deedsie

Markcheese wrote: »

Is there a maximum speed that a train can travel on a stretch of line with user operated crossing gates ?
I remember having to use a phone to call in to cross a line in the uk , just 2 ordinary farm gates and a phone either side of a dual track line , no idea what speed the train was traveling but it felt fast as it went by .. ��

Not an issue on this line. Ive crossed the line near Ballinahinch a few times and the gate is always open.

At this spot...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/X8yxDHMBHecHrB597

Locals not concerned. A shame the line is not taken more seriously.

Deedsie

Question for more knowledgeable people. When people refer to double tracking between Limerick - Limerick Junction... Would this require an upgrade to Killonan Junction and removal of the level crossing near Roseville House Nursing Home?

tabbey

Markcheese wrote: »

Is there a maximum speed that a train can travel on a stretch of line with user operated crossing gates ?
I remember having to use a phone to call in to cross a line in the uk , just 2 ordinary farm gates and a phone either side of a dual track line , no idea what speed the train was traveling but it felt fast as it went by .. 😂

Accommodation crossings have been on our railways since the beginning. They do not need additional speed restrictions. However if a closed railway was to reopen, there might be a restriction on the ground that the farmer had forgotten that trains had resumed running. Utterly absurd, but that is the way this country works.
Officially the user of such a crossing must keep the gates closed and only open them having carefully checked the line. For large vehicles, possibly including a tractor and trailer combination, the user should phone the signalman.
In practice, most farmers leave the gates open, quite illegally and no action is taken against them. There was a case in the district court some years ago where the judge, wife of a former TD, dismissed the case, thus encouraging non compliance.
The whole system of law and order is a joke.

tabbey

Deedsie wrote: »

Not an issue on this line. Ive crossed the line near Ballinahinch a few times and the gate is always open.

At this spot...

https://maps.app.goo.gl/X8yxDHMBHecHrB597

Locals not concerned. A shame the line is not taken more seriously.

The crossing on the map, Cappadine at mp 39.25, is a public road, it is supposed to be open to road traffic, except when a train is due.