Burning the Poppy - A thread.

Plumbthedepths

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

The British Army has acted admirably in every conflict it has been involved in. Of course there will always be a tiny, tiny number of rogue elements, but these occur in all walks of life sadly.

What's more I welcome the move by the Tories to change the law, protecting army veterans from vexatious legal actions. Long overdue imo.

I sincerely doubt you are here for any purpose other than to wind people up and troll. You need to be more subtle too obvious.

Markcheese

partyguinness wrote: »

The Brits have defo gone full retard with their annual Poppy Porn Fest.

Yesterday I took my young fella to rugby at 10:30am as normal. At 10:50 a lady went around with a whistle to summon everyone to the club house for a full 15mins of poppy nonsense, a little speech I could not hear, a live stream from the BBC of the Poppy Orgy in London and then each age group from micros to U7s up to the Juniors laid 5 identical poppy wreaths. I am just thinking of all that plastic and the environment. Talk about OTT. All finished at 11:05am. What a dose.

A pub in Bristol was refusing to serve anyone who was not wearing a poppy.

They really have lost the plot.

I suppose the pub owner is entitled to do that, (I think he's a tit though), I wouldn't have a problem with him wearing a poppy though... But there's no shortage of pubs in Bristol..
Its portrayed as first world war memorial, (and it includes that), but its about "celebrating" all British wars, including their very dodgy ones,
With all their military leaders there officially, and their politicians..
I don't have a problem with the british legion fundraising either, but, annoys me that a charity has to fund raise to give former soldiers help, if they need it, shouldn't the government that sent them provide...

Markcheese

Markcheese wrote: »

I suppose the pub owner is entitled to do that, (I think he's a tit though), I wouldn't have a problem with him wearing a poppy though... But there's no shortage of pubs in Bristol..
Its portrayed as first world war memorial, (and it includes that), but its about "celebrating" all British wars, including their very dodgy ones,
With all their military leaders there officially, and their politicians..
I don't have a problem with the british legion fundraising either, but, annoys me that a charity has to fund raise to give former soldiers help, if they need it, shouldn't the government that sent them provide...

its not about "Celebrating" anything.

I believe the word you are looking for is "Commemorating".

partyguinness

Markcheese wrote: »

I suppose the pub owner is entitled to do that, (I think he's a tit though), I wouldn't have a problem with him wearing a poppy though... But there's no shortage of pubs in Bristol..
Its portrayed as first world war memorial, (and it includes that), but its about "celebrating" all British wars, including their very dodgy ones,
With all their military leaders there officially, and their politicians..
I don't have a problem with the british legion fundraising either, but, annoys me that a charity has to fund raise to give former soldiers help, if they need it, shouldn't the government that sent them provide...

Oh yeah I get that he can do that but it just shows how ridiculous it has become.

The seem to change the goal posts every year. Started off as a WWI commemoration to the "glorious dead". Yeah like being blown to pieces in Flanders in a pointless war and suffer a pointless useless death is "glorious". Now apparently this year it is to commemorate all victims of war.

This is all to help the guilt of the powers that be.

My wife's great grand uncle (she is English) was killed on the first day of the Somme- no body ever found.

There was a report out a few weeks back showing that the British Legion are sitting on a cash pile £87m quid. It is an industry and they must sustain it and it is a propaganda tool for new recruits.

Dublin Spur

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why must we pander to a symbol that isn't ours?
The State is cognisant of both views here. Those citizens here that have in a very real way been affected by the actions of the British Army and those who gave their lives fighting for the British Army, as soldiers committed to a cause as in 'defeat of Nazism' or as mercenary paid soldiers, who wanted a career as soldiers for whatever army would employ them.

Which is the 'tolerant' respectful way to do it. We are a sovereign nation and have decided that the fitting commemoration of men and women who gave their lives for the British army is a laurel wreath.

and if an individual citizen wishes to purchase/wear a poppy to commemorate Irish people who served and or died in the world wars that is also acceptable and nobody else's business but theirs.

I get it's not everyone cup of tea, it's up to the individual, there's no right or wrong.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

its not about "Celebrating" anything.

I believe the word you are looking for is "Commemorating".

Proper commemoration should have awareness at it's heart. Unfortunately due to the hijacking of the poppy, sacrifice is glorified without any criticism. Perhaps this guy's sentiments should be the keynote to the 'commemoration'. But we all know that will never be addressed even at this remove.

partyguinness

Well that sums it - legalised mass slaughter.

WWI was the most disgraceful act of sheer butchery in humankind. It was for nothing on all sides I hasten to add.

Now the Brits cannot be seen to to say that- "Lads, lets be honest. We sent millions to deaths for no real apparent reason. Sure once we had started we had to keep going. You know how it is. Sorry."

It was basically a "Who has the biggest cock" competition.

At least WWII had a clear purpose but then again WWII was direct fallout from WWI.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Proper commemoration should have awareness at it's heart. Unfortunately due to the hijacking of the poppy, sacrifice is glorified without any criticism. Perhaps this guy's sentiments should be the keynote to the 'commemoration'. But we all know that will never be addressed even at this remove.

partyguinness wrote: »

Well that sums it - legalised mass slaughter.

WWI was the most disgraceful act of sheer butchery in humankind. It was for nothing on all sides I hasten to add.

Now the Brits cannot be seen to to say that- "Lads, lets be honest. We sent millions to deaths for no real apparent reason. Sure once we had started we had to keep going. You know how it is. Sorry."

It was basically a "Who has the biggest cock" competition.

At least WWII had a clear purpose but then again WWII was direct fallout from WWI.

you two have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Plumbthedepths

Aegir wrote: »

you two have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

With your superior knowledge you should take it upon yourself to inform them of what you believe them to be ignorant of.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

you two have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

I quoted somebody who actually fought in WW1 Aegir. Are you are saying you know better?
He went to his grave, ashamed of the poppy antics. If that isn't a call to 'hold, enough', then i don't know what is.
How many bullies like the guy in Bristol or those forcing this on young sportspeople do you wish to enfranchise?
Commemoration is not the problem here, it is something else entirely.

partyguinness

Aegir wrote: »

you two have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

What more can I say to that well thought considered rebuttal...

Go on then. Show me where I have gone wrong.

tipptom

DeVore wrote: »

Its not the "easier life" approach. (Ask anyone here, they'll tell you I don't take the easy road heheh). I just felt like I didnt have a firm reason not to and politeness is something I value. Also I have a leaning towards honouring the men and women of the RAF during WW2 and the soldiers in WW1 who included many Irishmen so it was no harsh task to wear it. The organiser had a tray of them the same way we might have a tray of shamrock on paddys day and yeah, if the Queen herself was here I'd expect her to wear some and be unimpressed if she didnt.

If the organisers had of told you the poppies also went towards supporting British army veterans who were in NI would you have still put it on?

Fattybojangles

Burn baby burn a hateful symbol of murder colonisation and oppression the irony here is of course that many of those horrified by the burning of a poppy have no problem with children being incinerated in britain various wars aerial bombing campaigns etc

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I quoted somebody who actually fought in WW1 Aegir. Are you are saying you know better?
He went to his grave, ashamed of the poppy antics. If that isn't a call to 'hold, enough', then i don't know what is.
How many bullies like the guy in Bristol or those forcing this on young sportspeople do you wish to enfranchise?
Commemoration is not the problem here, it is something else entirely.

who is the guy in Bristol bullying? is he dragging people in to his pub, forcing them to wear a poppy and making them buy a pint?

You really come out with some dramatic bollocks sometimes.

partyguinness wrote: »

What more can I say to that well thought considered rebuttal...

Go on then. Show me where I have gone wrong.

there is no point, because you have already made up your mind and you have no interest in changing it.

all through my childhood, we were taught about the Lions led by donkies and the futility and stupidity of WWI, hell Richard Curtis even wrote an incredibly popular TV sit com about it.

but yeah, something something glorious deaths and James McClean blah blah blah.

SafeSurfer

The whole wearing of symbols thing is creeping into Irish politics too. Just look at TDs the next time they are on TV. A large number are now walking advertisements for a myriad of campaigns and sentiments. It is unbecoming.

partyguinness

Aegir wrote: »

there is no point, because you have already made up your mind and you have no interest in changing it.

all through my childhood, we were taught about the Lions led by donkies and the futility and stupidity of WWI, hell Richard Curtis even wrote an incredibly popular TV sit com about it.

but yeah, something something glorious deaths and James McClean blah blah blah.

Oh gone on. Try me. Don't chicken out like that. What aspect of my post requires changing?

For the record, burning the poppy like that was the petulant act of a child.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

who is the guy in Bristol bullying? is he dragging people in to his pub, forcing them to wear a poppy and making them buy a pint?

You really come out with some dramatic bollocks sometimes.

So just ignore the point being made.


Would you agree that Harry Patch might have 'known what he was talking about'?
Or the person who wrote this:

https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2015/11/06/poppies-and-the-political-hijacking-of-remembrance/

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

Oh gone on. Try me. Don't chicken out like that. What aspect of my post requires changing?

For the record, burning the poppy like that was the petulant act of a child.

Well for starters, Glorious in the context used is the same as when people talk about glory to god. Their memory should be held in honour.

It has nothing to do with glorious as in fabulous and stunning.

No one looks at WWI as anything other than a massive waste of life. I have never seen anyone glorify it. It was a breakdown in diplomacy by all involved. I’ve no idea where you get the notion people are glorifying it.

For th record, I don’t really give a **** about some attention seeking little social media wannabe burning a poppy.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So just ignore the point being made.


Would you agree that Harry Patch might have 'known what he was talking about'?
Or the person who wrote this:

https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2015/11/06/poppies-and-the-political-hijacking-of-remembrance/

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Francis.

Just as “everyone should be given space to remember their dead”

Letwin_Larry

well it's good to see open and frank exchange of opinions without anybody getting hurt.
see i knew we could do it.

and there was me thinking this place is full of backward thinking republican types still prattling on about bobby sands, the famine & imperial oppression.


It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum.

lawred2

obvious troll is obvious

partyguinness

Aegir wrote: »

Well for starters, Glorious in the context used is the same as when people talk about glory to god. Their memory should be held in honour.

It has nothing to do with glorious as in fabulous and stunning.

So...we are in agreement then.

chrissb8

I can't get behind it in any shape or form in it's current format. Par 2 world wars the British army have been stuffing their faces in places, cultures and countries they had no place to be. Most British troops signed up to serve the empire and in modern times similarly enough as well (except those who were already in the army when war was announced in Iraq or when conscription was put in place).

So the cynical side of me says you knew what you were going over for and the blinding jignostic goggles took over and you thought B R I T A I N. Going over to give those terrorists in Iraq a good thumping. My a**e. If you sat down and thought about it for 5 minutes you would see it for the crock it was. I did. I was 12 at the time.

Make no mistake about it. The British army, with all its officialdom justifications and traditions doesn't mask the fact it was an invader and a foreign menace for the majority of its history. For many that is still the case and no stupid Poppy and saying "it's not about that" will change my opinion. Tell that to the Indian business men they literally made crawl through the streets or the poor souls waving a white flag only to be gunned down on what was supposed to be a peaceful day.

British military interests are a disgrace and it has only been masked by hiding it behing the nobility of the tommies or ww2 vets.

Letwin_Larry

i appreciate this may be a tad off-topic, but i wanted to know what you guys thought of the proposed change to the laws to protect former soldiers from possible prosecution over historic deaths, most of whom have already been completely exonerated.

personally i welcome it, as many of the complaints are vexatious in nature orchestrated by people who imo are on the compo trail.


It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to their opinion Francis.

Just as “everyone should be given space to remember their dead”

But the point being made is that it has gone beyond that. :rolleyes:

Plumbthedepths

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

i appreciate this may be a tad off-topic, but i wanted to know what you guys thought of the proposed change to the laws to protect former soldiers from possible prosecution over historic deaths, most of whom have already been completely exonerated.

personally i welcome it, as many of the complaints are vexatious in nature orchestrated by people who imo are on the compo trail.


It's akin to trolling considering this is an Irish discussion forum.

Hey if you welcome the murder of civilians without ramifications to the killers involved that's your right, a disgusting position to have but then again it's obvious as to what your behaviour here is all about.
You should be happy the Reds won yesterday how sad is your life that you need to try and fill a void by trolling .

partyguinness

partyguinness wrote: »

So...we are in agreement then.

only if you agree with me that no one is glorifying war.

As an earlier poster mentioned, visiting one of the cemeteries or memorials really puts the whole thing in to context.

The Menin Gate Memorial is simply amazing. over 54,000 names of soldiers with no known grave, all of whom marched through the gates to their deaths. Every evening, the Ypres fire brigade stop the traffic going through and play the last post. Something that has been happening since 1928. It is a solemn, thoughtful mark of respect to the men from foreign countries who came to help defend theirs, that is all.

People should not forget the mistakes of the past.

Odhinn

Aegir wrote: »

its not about "Celebrating" anything.

I believe the word you are looking for is "Commemorating".

It's essentially been turned into a celebration of British militarism. And then of course there's the issue of where the money goes.

Plumbthedepths

Odhinn wrote: »

It's essentially been turned into a celebration of British militarism. And then of course there's the issue of where the money goes.

Or doesn't go considering over 87 million is unspent. The poppy is an industry.

FrancieBrady

FrancieBrady wrote: »

But the point being made is that it has gone beyond that. :rolleyes:

it isn't a point, it is your opinion.

The Anti poppy fascists and the poppy fascists are as bad as each other, that has all gone too far and is a sympton of the modern social media age where everyone is constantly looking for something to get outraged about.