Do you ever win with HR?

ricicle

gordongekko wrote: »

I still don't get why you are fighting with them. If you are on contract they can let you go anyway why get thick about the situation. If you work with them they'll probably keep you on.

I provided everything they requested and am signed as fit to work as far as my GP and psychiatrist are concerned
They will not provide me in writing concerns raised and the reason I am off.
They said I didn’t return documents in time when i did.
They said documents submitted weren’t correctly dated when they were
They gave me false information about pay
They did not address my concerns about confidentiality

I can work with them but what I provided as requested has not been enough.
I feel they will not keep me on because they know I have mental health issues
I do not trust they will keep things confidential seems as I am aware of why someone on a permanent contract was out of work for 10months (mental health issue) I should not know this

Potential-Monke

gordongekko wrote: »

Crying in the workplace is not normal.

I disagree. There are times when it just happens, for many reasons. I had to console a girl one day because the 'second level' support agent made her cry with his horrible attitude (she was a meek girl). I agree it's not usually seen.

Regarding the OP, it all sounds a bis suss on the company side. I can't understand how the company doctor signed you unfit a few days after signing you fit, without seeing you again. As mentioned above, if you want, you can make a request under Article 15 of the GDPR.

But, before I would do this, I'd draft up a letter outlining everything that has happened so far, and attach and documents you have to back you up. Word it nicely but firmly, and see where that goes.

Dav010

Op, this really sounds like an awful situation to be in. I admire the fact that though you are being paid, and you have a lot going on in your life, you still want to go back to work and contribute. Well done.

On the one hand, the company seems to be handling this badly, but on the other, they may be able to validate their action by outlining their concern over your mental health, both for your good and for your co-workers. Requiring a cert that confirms fitness to return to work is an established practice, and what they are asking for is not outlandish nor unfair, they want you to be examined and passed fit by a mental health specialist. If they allow you to return knowing that you were not properly assessed and harm comes to you, they may be in same way responsible.

In relation to your job, a FTC has a specific end date and if it states the Unfair Dismissals Act does not apply at determination, then there is little you can do after just 6 months there. You could argue discrimination on disability grounds for not getting another contract, but do you need the added stress of that?

I would just fill out the SW forms, that is standard practice when in sick leave. Then focus on your family member and importantly, yourself. This will pass, it would be difficult for you to go back there anyway after all that has happened. When your contract is up after Christmas, look for a new job and just tell any new employer that you had to take time off to care for an ill family member.

ricicle

Dav010 wrote: »

Op, this really sounds like an awful situation to be in. I admire the fact that though you are being paid, and you have a lot going on in your life, you still want to go back to work and contribute. Well done.

On the one hand, the company seems to be handling this badly, but on the other, they may be able to validate their action by outlining their concern over your mental health, both for your good and for your co-workers. Requiring a cert that confirms fitness to return to work is an established practice, and what they are asking for is not outlandish nor unfair, they want you to be examined and passed fit by a mental health specialist. If they allow you to return knowing that you were not properly assessed and harm comes to you, they may be in same way responsible.

In relation to your job, a FTC has a specific end date and if it states the Unfair Dismissals Act does not apply at determination, then there is little you can do after just 6 months there. You could argue discrimination on disability grounds for not getting another contract, but do you need the added stress of that?

I would just fill out the SW forms, that is standard practice when in sick leave. Then focus on your family member and importantly, yourself. This will pass, it would be difficult for you to go back there anyway after all that has happened. When your contract is up after Christmas, look for a new job and just tell any new employer that you had to take time off to care for an ill family member.

Hi I see what you are saying but I was properly assessed I seen the psychiatrist in person on Thursday just gone and this wasn’t accepted. I gave them what they are looking for. I also just read up on the social welfare side of things and I don’t have enough stamps to qualify. I am fit by my GP and psychiatrist so do my job have to pay me on full if I am signed off by them?

Dav010

ricicle wrote: »

Hi I see what you are saying but I was properly assessed I seen the psychiatrist in person on Thursday just gone and this wasn’t accepted. I gave them what they are looking for. I also just read up on the social welfare side of things and I don’t have enough stamps to qualify. I am fit by my GP and psychiatrist so do my job have to pay me on full if I am signed off by them?

The reality is that unless it specifically states it in your contract, there is no obligation to pay you at all while out on sick leave.

Did you post earlier that your psychiatrist did not fill in the date of assessment on your letter/form? Perhaps the quick chat when you attended without an appointment is not accepted as a psychiatric assessment. It seems clear to me that they have told you what they require, you now have to provide that in order to return to work. I know you feel you have given them sufficient notification, but they require a specific form/detail which you need to submit.

ricicle

Dav010 wrote: »

The reality is that unless it specifically states it in your contract, there is no obligation to pay you at all while out on sick leave.

Did you post earlier that your psychiatrist did not fill in the date of assessment on your letter/form? Perhaps the quick chat when you attended without an appointment is not accepted as a psychiatric assessment. It seems clear to me that they have told you what they require, you now have to provide that in order to return to work. I know you feel you have given them sufficient notification, but they require a specific form/detail which you need to submit.

Yes he didn’t fill out the date and so I went to his office on Thursday, he seen me and assessed me as fit to work.

ebbsy

OP hold out for a payoff. Don't resign.

BattleCorp

ebbsy wrote: »

OP hold out for a payoff. Don't resign.

On what grounds would the OP get a pay -out?

Dav010

ricicle wrote: »

Yes he didn’t fill out the date and so I went to his office on Thursday, he seen me and assessed me as fit to work.

So form has all details required? Nothing is missing? Why are they rejecting it?

ricicle

Dav010 wrote: »

So form has all details required? Nothing is missing? Why are they rejecting it?[/

I have no idea, they said I have 6 weeks to see my psychiatrist again for an assessment. I have been assessed !! (bearing in mind the next available appointment is January 2020)

Stheno

ricicle wrote: »

Dav010 wrote: »

So form has all details required? Nothing is missing? Why are they rejecting it?[/

I have no idea, they said I have 6 weeks to see my psychiatrist again for an assessment. I have been assessed !! (bearing in mind the next available appointment is January 2020)

Are you referring to an unscheduled appointment as the assessment?

Tbh I can see why the company are being cautious here, you appear to be under enormous stress.

ricicle

Stheno wrote: »

ricicle wrote: »

Are you referring to an unscheduled appointment as the assessment?

Tbh I can see why the company are being cautious here, you appear to be under enormous stress.

Yes he seen me and assessed me at the unscheduled appointment.
They may be being cautious but they have not provided me with an explanation as to why I am off, all they could say was about attending pieta house, and they weren’t informed about my family situation so I don’t know what was said to cause concern for me and my co workers, What behavior I was exhibiting.
Accused me of refusing to see the company doctor when I asked for a call
Not responded to basic queries about pay etc
Said I didn’t return documents when I did, asked for clarification it was received on time and would not be penalized and was not provided etc etc

Stheno

I suspect we are just hearing your side here by and it's highly slanted in your favour.

Given your job is advertised as you've said it appears there is not much you can do

ricicle

Stheno wrote: »

I suspect we are just hearing your side here by and it's highly slanted in your favour.

Given your job is advertised as you've said it appears there is not much you can do

Suspect all you like but I wish I could show you every communication I have had from them!

Stheno

ricicle wrote: »

Suspect all you like but I wish I could show you every communication I have had from them!

You posted earlier that you told your manager about the bereavement in your family ill lying and that you are attending pi were ta house.

You've always also posted on here about your mental illness. If your work are asking for a complete assessment from your psychiatrist it appears they are aware of your illness yet you furnished one without a date seen.

Given the nature of your illness I'm not surprised they have had you signed off tbh

mdebets

ricicle wrote: »

Stheno wrote: »

They may be being cautious but they have not provided me with an explanation as to why I am off, all they could say was about attending pieta house, and they weren’t informed about my family situation so I don’t know what was said to cause concern for me and my co workers, What behavior I was exhibiting.

Do I understand you correctly, that the company GP was the one who signed you off unfit for work? If this is the case, HR won't have the answers for your questions, only the company GP has them, as he can't pass on medical information from you to HR. All he can tell them is that you are either fit for work or not, everything else falls under patient doctor confidentiality. Did you ask the company GP these questions?

Stheno

mdebets wrote: »

ricicle wrote: »

Do I understand you correctly, that the company GP was the one who signed you off unfit for work? If this is the case, HR won't have the answers for your questions, only the company GP has them, as he can't pass on medical information from you to HR. All he can tell them is that you are either fit for work or not, everything else falls under patient doctor confidentiality. Did you ask the company GP these questions?

OP appears not to have seen the gp this time but did previously.

Their posts are very unclear

ricicle

ricicle wrote: »

Stheno wrote: »

Yes he seen me and assessed me at the unscheduled appointment.
They may be being cautious but they have not provided me with an explanation as to why I am off, all they could say was about attending pieta house, and they weren’t informed about my family situation so I don’t know what was said to cause concern for me and my co workers, What behavior I was exhibiting.
Accused me of refusing to see the company doctor when I asked for a call
Not responded to basic queries about pay etc
Said I didn’t return documents when I did, asked for clarification it was received on time and would not be penalized and was not provided etc etc

mdebets wrote: »

ricicle wrote: »

Do I understand you correctly, that the company GP was the one who signed you off unfit for work? If this is the case, HR won't have the answers for your questions, only the company GP has them, as he can't pass on medical information from you to HR. All he can tell them is that you are either fit for work or not, everything else falls under patient doctor confidentiality. Did you ask the company GP these questions?

I got a call from HR on the 21st saying the company GP had signed me off. I didn’t see him and he will not see me until I have returned the requested documents which I have, his letter stated “further to my assessment of x” although I had no assessment with him. I have to go through HR in relation to the company GP, I did however call the surgery when documents went missing as HR would not follow up, and was advised he only sits there once a month, I also emailed him and did not receive a response. Anything he has said was passed on to me through HR.

and I’ll jusy add that HR sent me a response from the company GP to them and there was a line regarding medication which I believe to be confidential information.

Stheno

Did you previously see the company go? Your posts here indicate you did

ricicle

Stheno wrote: »

Did you previously see the company go? Your posts here indicate you did

I seen him on October 15th and was deemed fit for work and then concerns were raised in the 18th and I was signed off on the 21st. HR would have advised him of these concerns so can he relay them back to me?

Stheno

ricicle wrote: »

I seen him on October 15th and was deemed fit for work and then concerns were raised in the 18th and I was signed off on the 21st. HR would have advised him of these concerns so can he relay them back to me?

He doesn't have to get back to you he works for the company.

I just read back he did raise concerns about your health issues on the 15th and said (as you have phrased it) talk about mental health issues again and you'll be signed off work, no?

A few days later you are crying and talking to your manager about stress due to family illness/bereavwnts, maybe the company are concerned how this is affecting you and your colleagues?

Given you are there six months a. You are fortunate to be paid while sick and fortunate they appear to be lo ok king out for you, and b. It's a slim chance you have of taking at action against them.

I'd leave it be if I were you

ricicle

Stheno wrote: »

He doesn't have to get back to you he works for the company.

I just read back he did raise concerns about your health issues on the 15th and said (as you have phrased it) talk about mental health issues again and you'll be signed off work, no?

A few days later you are crying and talking to your manager about stress due to family illness/bereavwnts, maybe the company are concerned how this is affecting you and your colleagues?

Given you are there six months a. You are fortunate to be paid while sick and fortunate they appear to be lo ok king out for you, and b. It's a slim chance you have of taking at action against them.

I'd leave it be if I were you

I know he doesn’t have to respond to me I was saying in response to another post who asked had I contacted him and I had when HR refused to answer my questions. I told my manager I couldn’t talk about it, I have the messages she was sending me when I went on lunch early, I have the messages saying she would not tell anyone. And think of her as a friend etc.. then denying she said anything. If she had to say something she should have told me she has to and that would be fine.

I am not looking anything off them accept to acknowledge how they have handled this. See my previous point a regarding refusing to tell me why I’m off. Not responding to general queries. Telling me I am refusing to see he company GP. Not confirming documents were in fact received on time etc etc

Stheno

How did they find out you are going to Pieta house? You are contradicting yourself with your latest post.

You said you told your manager you were going to Pieta house and had a bereavement.

You also said you sent in incomplete forms so you are not blameless here.

ricicle

Stheno wrote: »

How did they find out you are going to Pieta house? You are contradicting yourself with your latest post.

You said you told your manager you were going to Pieta house and had a bereavement.

You also said you sent in incomplete forms so you are not blameless here.

I told my boss who said she wouldn’t say anything, but this wasn't new information we had talked about it before. I was supposed to be off on the 18th to go to and she knew about but then I changed the date.

I have no control over what was written on the forms. They were sent directly from my psychiatrist to the company GP on the 24th. It took until the 4th of November when I enquired about what stage we were at to be told the forms weren’t received (I had to call the surgery and it transpires they were received the week before) then they wouldn’t confirm I had sent them in on time and wouldn’t be penalized as they had advised me if the forms weren’t returned before the 1st my contract may be terminated.

I kept asking what date was on the form and they kept saying October 3rd, when it was the 24th. The first I heard about the form not having a date seen written on it was October 7th. I went to my psychiatrist on 7th and was deemed fit to work but still not being accepted

Stheno

ricicle wrote: »

I told my boss who said she wouldn’t say anything, but this wasn't new information we had talked about it before. I was supposed to be off on the 18th to go to and she knew about but then I changed the date.

I have no control over what was written on the forms. They were sent directly from my psychiatrist to the company GP on the 24th. It took until the 4th of November when I enquired about what stage we were at to be told the forms weren’t received (I had to call the surgery and it transpires they were received the week before) then they wouldn’t confirm I had sent them in on time and wouldn’t be penalized as they had advised me if the forms weren’t returned before the 1st my contract may be terminated.

I kept asking what date was on the form and they kept saying October 3rd, when it was the 24th. The first I heard about the form not having a date seen written on it was October 7th. I went to my psychiatrist on 7th and was deemed fit to work but still not being accepted

Sorry but the last paragraph makes no sense. The one before doea. You were told to have the report in before November 1st or your contract would be terminated.

Is this the report with the date seen section not filled out?

s7ryf3925pivug

Pieta House has the specific objective of preventing suicide and self harm. My reading is that they have inferred that you are at risk of suicide or self harm from your attendance there - and that is their rationale for not wanting you to attend work.

ricicle

Stheno wrote: »

Sorry but the last paragraph makes no sense. The one before doea. You were told to have the report in before November 1st or your contract would be terminated.

Is this the report with the date seen section not filled out?

Yes the form with the date seen written on it,
When i was informed it wasn’t accepted I then got an email saying I hadn’t submitted the requested information by the deadline. I didn’t know it hadn’t been accepted until after the deadline and I have no control over what the psychiatrist fills in on the form

ricicle

Kyleigh Raspy Flashlight wrote: »

Pieta House has the specific objective of preventing suicide and self harm. My reading is that they have inferred that you are at risk of suicide or self harm from your attendance there - and that is their rationale for not wanting you to attend work.

My boss was aware I had an appointment there before this so why were they only informed now, if this is their issue they should be able to put it in writing or tell me all concerns that were reported as all I was told was “you are attending pieta house” but Hr were not aware of my family issues which was my main issue so I don’t know what Hr were actually told

Stheno

ricicle wrote: »

Yes the form with the date seen written on it,
When i was informed it wasn’t accepted I then got an email saying I hadn’t submitted the requested information by the deadline. I didn’t know it hadn’t been accepted until after the deadline and I have no control over what the psychiatrist fills in on the form

Well that's not your works fault you failed to ensure they got the info they requested by the date they asked for so your contract was terminated.

Not your pychiatrists fault either, you failed to attend in person so they couldn't fill out the date seen section as it would be a lie.

s7ryf3925pivug

Stop fighting with them. Get whatever forms you need filled done as quickly as possible. Don't stress about what they say in them or if they reject them. Take time off o recuperate and regroup.