Galway traffic

donvito99

Deleted User wrote: »

What the actual f? It’s “Design for all. Consider the disabled and their needs when designing for active transport.”

This is a glossy report that refuses to compromise on access for car traffic, shafting buses and other modes that disabled people are disproportionately reliant on. It is basically a more sophisticated version of what's seen in this thread when the Salmon Weir Bridge restriction is discussed - "how dare you prevent drivers use this bridge, what about the disabled/elderly etc?"

The two sides to this argument in London will never meet. One doesn't want their 3 minute drive to get milk to turn into an 8 minute drive to get milk (what a travesty, you might have to stick on the radio or adjust your leather upholstered seat...) and the other doesn't want noisy through traffic on their road because it endangers their children or something (nonsense).

The simple solution would be to entitle blue badge holders to use the rat runs along with ambulances etc. That will force group #1 to do another glossy, obfuscating report to ensure that their commutes aren't interrupted, the usual one is "but closing the road will slow traffic down and the idling cars increases emissions ...."

obi604

Does anyone know when the road works on the N59 on the Oughterard side of Maam cross are due to finish.

Searched and seems started end of 2019 and was supposed to last a year. But this obviously an old date

Good to see legislation for e-scooters moving forward. TII are recommending they be registered and insured.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40279619.html?type=amp

xckjoo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Good to see legislation for e-scooters moving forward. TII are recommending they be registered and insured.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40279619.html?type=amp

Seems a bit regressive and likely to keep people away from them, but I think the only real solution is widespread adoption of cycle lane type infrastructure that are used for bikes, scooters, etc. They don't really belong on the road or footpath

They should be categorised the same as e-bikes imo. 25km/hr limit. That category should have the 250W limit reviewed though.

There is a recommendation of only allowing them within 50km/hr or lower limit areas. That will have an interesting impact for Galway where we have several 50km/hr areas with 80km/hr signage which the council are refusing to change.

donvito99

donvito99 wrote: »

This is a glossy report that refuses to (f*ck cars)...

You’re adding 2+2 to get 5 here. If your counter argument ever saw the light of day in a widely published article or debate or something, neutrals would recoil at your callousness & go for a badly designed car option because they’d want to reject it.

This isn’t either/or. It’s both. Or rather all. It’s not hard to design with all in mind, at the end of the day a lack of steps is good for wheelchair and bike alike.

I’m not on about the rat runs, I’m on about the design principles. Visible. No steps. Clear signs. Tactile surfaces. Wheelable surfaces. Places for those who need blue badges. Consultation when changes are mooted. You want to throw on a tinfoil hat and call it a carscum conspiracy that’s on you.

donvito99

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You want to throw on a tinfoil hat and call it a carscum conspiracy that’s on you.

But that's exactly what this is. Do you think this report would come about without the fact of the changes to residential London?

It's like in Dublin where front gardens have been variously stripped of original railings and lawns for decades, but as soon as Bus Connects proposes to CPO some of them for a wider road, the residents are prostrating themselves for the 'heritage' of their areas. They then went on to commission their own heritage and Metro reports to oppose and reverse in as much as they can the proposals for an enhanced bus system.

This isn't a conspiracy, it's local politics in wealthy middle class areas. The disabled and the elderly are the usual pawns for protecting the status quo, despite not actually being in the interest of all of the person's in those groups.

McGiver

VanWildcard wrote:

On the recent very light rail seminar, a good point was made a few times - start with bus routes and when you have a successful bus route with increasing demand then convert that route to tram.

Fatal mistake of the propagators of the light rail that they're moving goalposts to the "very light rail". That's unfortunately bollox. Battery powered mini-trams - what's the point vs electric battery powered buses? That's an own goal really.

Battery powered buses are cheaper, cropping up all the over Europe, they're clean, not crazy expensive, very reliable, low maintenance and if you give them 2-3 doors and automated ticketing etc then it's the same as this "very light rail" but cheaper and you can just use existing infrastructure i.e. the roads. You just need to build chargers in the depot.

McGiver

Deleted User wrote:

There are 2 bus lanes in the city at present, on the SQR and Dublin rd. Both were built in addition to the existing lanes, no lanes were converted to bus only lanes.

Wasn't aware that lane wasn't there. Interesting.

But:
1. The same can be done with tram track of course (an addition).

2. Do you realistically expect addition of new lanes which will be a specifically designated as bus lanes as part of the "Bus Connect"? Where and how?

donvito99

donvito99 wrote: »

But that's exactly what this is.

So, you’re going QAnon on this report? Basically a green Trumpist saying “it’s all fake news”?

It’s bloody physics. “A gap not wide enough for a wheelchair can’t fit a wheelchair” sort of thing. And if there’s blowback on this kind of thing from Greens then you’re giving a baseball bat to the anti-bike pro-car types to destroy active transport as ablism unleashed.

Stop it. You’re making a show of yourselves.

McGiver

serfboard wrote:

The thing is, if you put in a proper BRT system, there wouldn't be a case where Light rail would be needed instead. The system in

No no no. Please no. BRT is a third/second world concept, and marginally North American one. Really. Bogota, no thanks. Just look at nearby countries (outside of the UK course )

Absolutely not a European thing. BRT should not be a model for a European country like Ireland.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

2. Do you realistically expect addition of new lanes which will be a specifically designated as bus lanes as part of the "Bus Connect"? Where and how?

I don't think it's part of the Bus Connects plan but if Knocknacarra is to be served well by public transport they should add bus lanes to Gort na Bró and Western Distributor Road and run a route through westside. There appears to be space left for the additional lanes on these roads.

McGiver

VanWildcard wrote:

There is a recommendation of only allowing them within 50km/hr or lower limit areas. That will have an interesting impact for Galway where we have several 50km/hr areas with 80km/hr signage which the council are refusing to change.

Where's that? In aware of a few dual carriage roads where it's the opposite - signage is 50 kph but practice is 70+.

VanWildcard wrote:

They should be categorised the same as e-bikes imo. 25km/hr limit. That category should have the 250W limit reviewed though.

250W is bollox, I agree. Bad EU regulation, the cycle group tried to lobby against this but some other group lobbied better (Carmakers?. I believe it's 500W in the US and that's more practical.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Where's that? In aware of a few dual carriage roads where it's the opposite - signage is 50 kph but practice is 70+.

The default limit in any city/urban local authority area is 50km/hr unless there is justification for faster and a bye-law in place calling out the exception.

When the city council boundaries were last revised, they didn't update the limit signs and also didn't add/update any bye-laws.

Lots of areas around the outside or the city limits. A bad example is upper Ballymoneen Road which is a residential area with lots of estates and the signage says 80km/hr even though legally the limit is 50km/hr.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What evidence do you have that it is successful? Have you been in any of these neighbourhoods at school drop off times? Are there any posters who have actual first-hand experience with them?

I'm hearing from drivers who are confused by nonstandard paint blobs which have appeared, and parents concerned that roads are being made to look like playgrounds. But these could be small samples.

Evidence for the school zones? None, but I refer you to the existing research on traffic calming measures

Evidence for the school streets, again I refer to existing evidence on what happens when it become safer to cycle

Alternatively, here's the an anecdotal summary on the uptake on cycling for the Jes primary over a few months.

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1371394640327368707?s=20

See the full twitter thread from Mar to May here

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Wasn't aware that lane wasn't there. Interesting.

But:
1. The same can be done with tram track of course (an addition).

Sorry, but until such time as light rail is given the go ahead for Galway, there's not much point talking about it as they will not break ground on a line for Cork this side of 2050 let alone Galway. If you wish to discuss this option further for Galway by all means lets chat here in the dedicated thread, otherwise no point derailing (pun intended) this thread with something that is not coming for the next 30 years (best case)

McGiver wrote: »

2. Do you realistically expect addition of new lanes which will be a specifically designated as bus lanes as part of the "Bus Connect"? Where and how?

Well....yes. Are you not aware of the GTS projects currently underway to do just this?

The current projects at various stages are

• Salmon Weir Pedestrian & Cycle Bridge
• BusConnects Galway: Dublin Road Consultation 2020
• Cross-City Link Consultation 2020
• Martin Roundabout Junction Upgrade

Feel free to have a read at any of the linked pages above, they should answer any questions you have regarding these projects

?Cee?view

Deleted User wrote: »

Evidence for the school zones? None, but I refer you to the existing research on traffic calming measures

Evidence for the school streets, again I refer to existing evidence on what happens when it become safer to cycle

Alternatively, here's the an anecdotal summary on the uptake on cycling for the Jes primary over a few months.

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1371394640327368707?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1372486426168803328?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1373997077064204291?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1375454738578337799?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1382366879839309831?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1383098955597242374?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1384522635690848260?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1385546702082428930?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1387788204909240320?s=20

https://twitter.com/kevigi/status/1388602382641246208?s=20

So roughly 10% of the kids in the school cycling

Laviski

if bikes and buses are allowed on this "traffic" thread then light rail can also be referenced, as they are all modes of transportation other than car/van. otherwise id say we should have a dedicated cycling thread.

Did someone say it wasn't allowed on the tread?

Mrs OBumble

?Cee?view wrote: »

So roughly 10% of the kids in the school cycling

I wonder how much space would be needed to store a bicycle for every child all day? Would the school be willing to allocate their playground space for that?

Laviski

Laviski wrote: »

if bikes and buses are allowed on this "traffic" thread then light rail can also be referenced, as they are all modes of transportation other than car/van. otherwise id say we should have a dedicated cycling thread.

Apologies, I wasn't very clear as to why I didn't see any point in discussing light rail.

Light rail will not be built in Galway within the next 20-30 years therefore it can not possibly have any impact, positive or otherwise, on Galways traffic until such time as they break ground. In my opinion, discussing it in the context of a Galway traffic thread serves no purpose as it can have no bearing on the topic.

Now, where it might go to/from, the type, the frequency, the station locations, the viability, the cost etc etc etc of such a service, those are all worth discussing in detail, but make no sense discussing here in my opinion which is why I linked to the thread on that topic.

Either way I'll let a mod decide but personally I won't be discussing the topic further in this thread as a light rail system will have no bearing on the topic until most posters on this thread are dead and buried

?Cee?view

?Cee?view wrote: »

So roughly 10% of the kids in the school cycling

Looks to be a bit above that now at 60-70, but yes, approximately 10 times the national average for primary school children cycling to school

The 2016 Census showed that fewer than 150 primary school pupils cycled to school in Galway, or 2% with the national avg at 1.3% for Irish primary students.

Thats across 24 primary schools, over 7,400 primary students.

With the creation of the cycle buses and roll outs of the school zones and school streets, I would hope the next census in 2022 shows a much healthier % or children cycling to school.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I wonder how much space would be needed to store a bicycle for every child all day? Would the school be willing to allocate their playground space for that?

They seem to be happy to allocate space for cars, why not kids bikes

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2701591,-9.0627125,3a,75y,1.24h,74.26t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sub4nY3JiaQgUP_BQB6xbvQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

donvito99

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I wonder how much space would be needed to store a bicycle for every child all day? Would the school be willing to allocate their playground space for that?

The lengths people will go to to discourage children cycling to school...

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

Light rail will not be built in Galway within the next 20-30 years therefore it can not possibly have any impact, positive or otherwise, on Galways traffic until such time as they break ground. In my opinion, discussing it in the context of a Galway traffic thread serves no purpose as it can have no bearing on the topic.

Right now this is true - but as far as I know the Minister for Transport is saying there will be a "Galway Transport Study" ministerial review - so you never know it could get topical once again in the not too distant future.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Right now this is true - but as far as I know the Minister for Transport is saying there will be a "Galway Transport Study" ministerial review - so you never know it could get topical once again in the not too distant future.

Aye, the GTS is scheduled for a review, and I've no doubt the like of Mulholland and his ilk will get a few inches in the local rags, but its a non-starter I'm afraid.

It will happen eventually, but not this side of 2050

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

Right now this is true - but as far as I know the Minister for Transport is saying there will be a "Galway Transport Study" ministerial review - so you never know it could get topical once again in the not too distant future.

The minister is not ruling it out but is of the view that it would be built as a replacement for successful reliable bus routes, which we're still to implement. Long way off yet.

what_traffic

VanWildcard wrote: »

The minister is not ruling it out but is of the view that it would be built as a replacement for successful reliable bus routes, which we're still to implement. Long way off yet.

I agree, just highlighting that I cannot see it been "parked up" yet in the public discourse as a result of this.

McGiver

Laviski wrote: »

if bikes and buses are allowed on this "traffic" thread then light rail can also be referenced, as they are all modes of transportation other than car/van. otherwise id say we should have a dedicated cycling thread.

Exactly. I'll respond to the above response, which I found very odd...

McGiver

Deleted User wrote: »

Apologies, I wasn't very clear as to why I didn't see any point in discussing light rail.

Light rail will not be built in Galway within the next 20-30 years therefore...

And that's why it was one of the options in the GLT assessments? And that's why there is a lobby group? And that's why there's an academic project on it?

It's your subjective opinion about light rail. That's all what it is. You're overreacting. And this is the second time. Once to my post and then second time to this one above.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Fatal mistake of the propagators of the light rail that they're moving goalposts to the "very light rail". That's unfortunately bollox. Battery powered mini-trams - what's the point vs electric battery powered buses? That's an own goal really.

Battery powered buses are cheaper, cropping up all the over Europe, they're clean, not crazy expensive, very reliable, low maintenance and if you give them 2-3 doors and automated ticketing etc then it's the same as this "very light rail" but cheaper and you can just use existing infrastructure i.e. the roads. You just need to build chargers in the depot.

I take it back. Albeit, the propagators have moved the goalposts, I now actually agree with this proposition as it's a correct move of goalposts! It makes total sense - it's a proposition of a lower cost solution.

Cost per km VLR vs LR:


I'm very much interested in trams/light rail and was not aware of this recent development.

Galway VLR presentations here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITnpNhfL_GE
VLR presentation starts at 37 minutes. Very interesting and recommended to everyone with interest in the topic.