Galway traffic

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems the city council have declared a climate emergency, I wonder will this fast-track or delay any projects... probably not!

https://twitter.com/MartinaGp5/status/1384194614094008326?s=19

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

You capture the mentality of the City Hall Executive so well.

what_traffic

what_traffic wrote: »

You capture the mentality of the City Hall Executive so well.

Its depressing how accurate it is

The lunacy of assigning the provision of safe cycling infrastructure to a body who has a financial interest in maintaining the status quo

xckjoo

Deleted User wrote: »

Its depressing how accurate it is

The lunacy of assigning the provision of safe cycling infrastructure to a body who has a financial interest in maintaining the status quo

And the lack of foresight to realise that local businesses need to be profitable to pay their rates.

Minister urges focus on Galway bus service improvements
"The Minister for Transport has said it is critical that enhancements are made to Galway's city bus network, before any new road projects commence."

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1211040/

McGiver

what_traffic wrote: »

But how much land do those City's take up? Thats the problem with majority of Irish Citys - they don't have the density any more.
Unless City densifies on its current area footprint then light rail wont be a runner for another generation. I think its a mid-to long term goal, a proper Bus spine network from East/West will need to be developed first that would in time be suitable to be converted over to a tram network.

OK, so here you are some details, just out of interest. :cool:

The city I'm from has had a continuous tram ("light rail") network in operation since 1869, for 152 years.

Back then the population was 100k. I don't know how many horse-driven tram lines were there back then, perhaps initially just one...

The population is 400k now and there are 13 (yes, thirteen) tram lines now, I won't count the bus lines as there are quite a few of them (and yes they are running 24/7, trams don't run at night, but buses do).
That's 1 tram line per 31k of population.
The population density is about 1700/sq km.

Now, Galway City + Oranmore Barna, let's say is 90k, the density is around 1500/sq km. That's not a substantial difference if you ask me.
It would easily warrant two tram lines, one line makes really no sense with Galway layout and density.

The issue could be the presence of the Galway bay on the southern side and then also Corrib on part of the northern side, but it's not that huge issue, I'd say.

In general, the lower population density in Galway is not only the suburbs, but the city itself - not enough high rise and the city centre density is quite low.

The real issue is in people's heads and most importantly in the tight purse of the central Dublin government along with strong centralised way of thinking. Local authoritities in Ireland are mostly essentially beggars. It's all about Dublin.

My thinking anyway...:)

McGiver

And as I said in the past, I'd support "Bus Connects" for Galway but only if and only if:

• Barrier free entry, two to three doors, single door not an option (in & out quick)
• Fully automated ticketing, optimally prepaid tickets (driver is a driver not a cashier)
• Zero emisson vehicles (diesel kills, yes it does)
• Radial routes (you don't need to go Eyre squre guys)
• Properly sheltered bus stands (GCC forgot Galway is the most rainiest place in Europe)

Storm 10

City council to unlock car parks and remove bollards on the prom tomorrow

McGiver

cgcsb wrote: »

This is a myth. Not sure where it comes from but it's commonly said even by journalists in the print media but it doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Innsbruck in Austria for example. Slightly bigger than Limerick, but Limerick is more densely populated than Innsbruck. Innsbruck has an extensive Sbahn commuter rail network and a tram network along with a bus connects style bus system. Tickets are fully integrated and buses run 24hrs on certain route.

It's simply that we've copied UK attitudes to pt projects. Irish cities aren't low density, they're about mid range compared to the mainland.

Compare with Klagenfurt in Austria, similar size as Galway and Limerick and they went the opposite way of abolishing trams.

The result?

Nevertheless, despite 28 bus lines, traffic jams are frequent nowadays as in most cities of similar size.

Anyone with a brain knows that the Innsburck solution is better and more sustainable. Better quality of life in the end.

serfboard

Storm 10 wrote: »

City council to ... remove billiards on the prom tomorrow

That's a pity - I was quite enjoying my few games of snooker on the prom!

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Minister urges focus on Galway bus service improvements
"The Minister for Transport has said it is critical that enhancements are made to Galway's city bus network, before any new road projects commence."

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1211040/

The funniest part of that article was in reference to the ABP decision due in June

It is expected that, were planning to be granted, it would take between 12 and 18 months to finish the project.

I honestly chuckled at that

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

The funniest part of that article was in reference to the ABP decision due in June
I honestly chuckled at that

That's some typo

what_traffic

McGiver wrote: »

The real issue is in people's heads and most importantly in the tight purse of the central Dublin government along with strong centralised way of thinking. Local authoritities in Ireland are mostly essentially beggars. It's all about Dublin.

My thinking anyway...:)

I'd say the biggest issue is rurban car traffic - outside of the area you describe in your post (which is very informative); more than half the car traffic is coming from outside. Would City Hall be willing to give up "road space" for them for a tram? Does not look like it. Bus lanes are cheaper and more flexible. Local authorities power is waning every year, there powers have been diluted greatly since end of the 70's but they still have control over planning here to a great extent.

McGiver

what_traffic wrote: »

I'd say the biggest issue is rurban car traffic - outside of the area you describe in your post (which is very informative); more than half the car traffic is coming from outside. Would City Hall be willing to give up "road space" for them for a tram? Does not look like it. Bus lanes are cheaper and more flexible. Local authorities power is waning every year, there powers have been diluted greatly since end of the 70's but they still have control over planning here to a great extent.

Rural traffic is an issue, yes.

But you don't always give up road space to the trams, the road space can be shared as/where needed. I don't need to show you examples from my town, you can see that in Dublin as well. Whereas you ALWAYS give up road space with a bus lane...that's road space gone, forever, creating a permanent reduction of road capacity. Anyway, all in all, both solutions are similar in terms of "giving up", in my opinion. There are workarounds available for both.

I still do think the biggest issue is money. Irish LAs have neither have any money nor power/authority (ironically). And there's for example no Connacht government or similar with a reasonable budget. Galway County Council is just too small unit (money wise) and anyway separate from the Galway City Coucil. Irish governance is way too centralised, there's no real regional decentralisation and associated money flows here in effect, which you would see, say Sweden or the Netherlands, or Italy or Spain or Austria.

Anyway, as I said, I'm fine with "Bus Connects" if they're not just a small upgrade to the current obsolete dirty diesel buses going from nowhere to nowhere like it's 1980s (which seem to be the Bus Eireann's take on modern urban bus-based public transport) :cool: Has to be 21st century bus system. Heck, even Poland now has electric buses and all that...

https://www.sustainable-bus.com/electric-bus/its-time-for-electric-school-buses-in-poland-a-second-vehicles-sold-by-solaris/

(And of course who is in the know knows that Poland is the largest EU exporter of electric buses...)

donvito99

McGiver wrote: »

But you don't always give up road space to the trams, the road space can be shared as/where needed. I don't need to show you examples from my town, you can see that in Dublin as well. Whereas you ALWAYS give up road space with a bus lane...that's road space gone, forever, creating a permanent reduction of road capacity. Anyway, all in all, both solutions are similar in terms of "giving up", in my opinion. There are workarounds available for both.

I think you've probably mixed that up - what towns/cities offer greater priority to buses over modern tram systems?

Banning cars from certain stretches of road would dramatically increase road capacity, don't know where you're going with that claim either.

And you're much more likely to "give up road space... forever" with a tram, as your investing a huge amount in trackbed, overhead power, rolling stock that lasts decades and stations. Buses just need vehicles and poles.

On the recent very light rail seminar, a good point was made a few times - start with bus routes and when you have a successful bus route with increasing demand then convert that route to tram.

McGiver

McGiver wrote: »

Whereas you ALWAYS give up road space with a bus lane...that's road space gone, forever, creating a permanent reduction of road capacity.

In Galway's case, that is incorrect.

There are 2 bus lanes in the city at present, on the SQR and Dublin rd. Both were built in addition to the existing lanes, no lanes were converted to bus only lanes.

Both had very positive effects on the routes served on those routes, hence the major expansion planned for the Dublin Rd to have bus lanes in both directions allowing a free run from the Galway Clinic to the Huntsman

what_traffic

VanWildcard wrote: »

On the recent very light rail seminar, a good point was made a few times - start with bus routes and when you have a successful bus route with increasing demand then convert that route to tram.

Would be the way to go for Galway City, which is coming off a very low base of public transport usage.

what_traffic

Deleted User wrote: »

In Galway's case, that is incorrect.

There are 2 bus lanes in the city at present, on the SQR and Dublin rd. Both were built in addition to the existing lanes, no lanes were converted to bus only lanes.

Both had very positive effects on the routes served on those routes, hence the major expansion planned for the Dublin Rd to have bus lanes in both directions allowing a free run from the Galway Clinic to the Huntsman

Same for the West Side of City. Bus Lanes along length of WDR - will be NEW Bus lane (will be a continuation of the SQR/BOD) in addition to the general traffic lane.
Even the City Centre, Eyre Square East and North - will be Bus priority, but wont be for bus only. Not sure about proposal for the hospital.
If they get this spine right though for City, in 20yr time could look to see if tram is an option.

zell12

serfboard

VanWildcard wrote: »

On the recent very light rail seminar, a good point was made a few times - start with bus routes and when you have a successful bus route with increasing demand then convert that route to tram.

The thing is, if you put in a proper BRT system, there wouldn't be a case where Light rail would be needed instead. The system in Bogota, for example, can carry 35,000 passengers per hour per direction, which would mor than cater for Galway's population for the next century.

donvito99

serfboard wrote: »

The thing is, if you put in a proper BRT system, there wouldn't be a case where Light rail would be needed instead. The system in Bogota, for example, can carry 35,000 passengers per hour per direction, which would mor than cater for Galway's population for the next century.

In a place where labour is cheap, it makes sense to stick with buses. But here, larger vehicles and fewer drivers (a tram/train) makes more economic sense when demand exceeds 2 or 3 thousand passengers per hour.

Those South American systems wouldn't be compatible here either. Galway is missing a big F off boulevard running east/west through Eyre Square. You'd need total segregation and huge stations providing for overtaking. The vehicles used in Bogota are typically high floor and triple articulated, they're unwieldy.

Great to see the successful rollout of this initiative. I have a good feeling that improved cycling infrastructure will be implemented citywide off the back of this. No point having the last 100 meters to the school being safe if the 1km up to there is lethal for young children

City Council to bring ‘School Zones’ markings to all city schools

Full story - https://www.galwaydaily.com/news/education/city-council-to-bring-school-zones-markings-to-all-city-schools/

The reaction to the new pilot ‘School Zones’ in Galway City has been overwhelmingly positive, and the council plans to introduce these same safety measures at every school in the city over time.

This is one of two projects the council has been trialling in recent months in order to make the school run safer.

The other is the ‘School Streets’ programme, which involves pedestrianising the street near a school during certain times in the morning and afternoon to make it safer to drop off and pick up kids.

Great to see the removal of on street parking to enable outdoor dining. Hope they are retained long term

https://www.advertiser.ie/galway/article/121340/parking-restrictions-on-the-cards-to-allow-for-outdoor-dining

Plans being designed for Woodquay, Middle Street, Dominick Street Upper, Small Crane, Ravens Terrace, and Salthill

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Great to see the successful rollout of this initiative. I have a good feeling that improved cycling infrastructure will be implemented citywide off the back of this. No point having the last 100 meters to the school being safe if the 1km up to there is lethal for young children

What evidence do you have that it is successful? Have you been in any of these neighbourhoods at school drop off times? Are there any posters who have actual first-hand experience with them?

I'm hearing from drivers who are confused by nonstandard paint blobs which have appeared, and parents concerned that roads are being made to look like playgrounds. But these could be small samples.

fergiesfolly

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What evidence do you have that it is successful? Have you been in any of these neighbourhoods at school drop off times? Are there any posters who have actual first-hand experience with them?

I'm hearing from drivers who are confused by nonstandard paint blobs which have appeared, and parents concerned that roads are being made to look like playgrounds. But these could be small samples.

I saw the spots outside the school in Mervue and had no idea what they were till now
I looked for signage to explain but saw nothing. What's the point in this if they don't publicize what they're doing to the broader road user.
Stupid half baked idea.

zell12

Agree 'school zones' is just a gimmick. Just paint.
Need actual enforcement of the stupid parking or even a ban on cars near school gates.

Came across this, and I think we all need an education on design for disability:
https://www.transportforall.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Pave-The-Way-full-report.pdf

donvito99

Deleted User wrote: »

Came across this, and I think we all need an education on design for disability:
https://www.transportforall.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/Pave-The-Way-full-report.pdf

Summary of above report: disabled people who can drive are more important than disabled people who cannot and need to use public transport. First group supported by able bodied residents who prefer congestion over those who'd rather live in a residential area and not a rat run.

donvito99

donvito99 wrote: »

Summary of above report: disabled people who can drive are more important than disabled people who cannot and need to use public transport. First group supported by able bodied residents who prefer congestion over those who'd rather live in a residential area and not a rat run.

What the actual f? It’s “Design for all. Consider the disabled and their needs when designing for active transport.”