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The Richard Keys defence results in €17.5 payout

  • 22-10-2019 12:42pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/chef-who-asked-for-kiss-after-all-ireland-win-awarded-17-500-for-unfair-dismissal-1.4059046?mode=amp
    A chef who was sacked and accused of sexual harassment after asking a female colleague for a kiss when Dublin won the All-Ireland has been awarded compensation of €17,500 for unfair dismissal.

    The avid GAA supporter told the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) that he was “elated” and in “high spirits” after the Dublin football team won the “four-in-a-row” last year.

    He was leaving work to attend the homecoming celebrations, and told his female co-worker that he thought this “deserves a kiss”, pointing to his cheek. He later described the comment as “simply banter”.

    Well???


«13

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,048 ✭✭✭Bunny Colvin




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    What about the woman he sexually harassed ?

    Its not he actually won the 4-in-a-row, is it ? He was just a creepy chef who tried it on with a female co-worker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 308 ✭✭spodoinkle


    Surely the I'll give you a smack reply was grounds for an assault complaint so


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    D3V!L wrote: »
    What about the woman he sexually harassed ?

    Its not he actually won the 4-in-a-row, is it ? He was just a creepy chef who tried it on with a female co-worker.
    Why creepy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,325 ✭✭✭munster87


    D3V!L wrote: »
    What about the woman he sexually harassed ?

    Its not he actually won the 4-in-a-row, is it ? He was just a creepy chef who tried it on with a female co-worker.

    Where was the sexual harassment!? He asked for a kiss and was turned down!


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    munster87 wrote: »
    Where was the sexual harassment!? He asked for a kiss and was turned down!

    That's sexual harassment.


    Not worthy of being sacked over but it is sexual harassment. Its creepy, you are in work you shouldn't be asked for kisses.


    Definition -
    behaviour characterized by the making of unwelcome and inappropriate sexual remarks or physical advances in a workplace or other professional or social situation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,426 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    He must have been an incredibly ugly “person”, inside and out.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    That's sexual harassment.


    Not worthy of being sacked over but it is sexual harassment. Its creepy, you are in work you shouldn't be asked for kisses.


    Definition -
    behaviour characterized by the making of unwelcome and inappropriate sexual remarks or physical advances in a workplace or other professional or social situation.

    and?

    the key point, as always, is that if it wasnt worth being sacked for then he shouldnt have been sacked

    if companies cared that much about the size of payouts, they wouldnt make such a balls up of simple processes governing disciplinary matters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Imagine if the gazillion hookups in the scandals thread has been nipped in the bud as sexual harassment - the world would be full of phantom ****ters.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,406 ✭✭✭✭the beer revolu


    and?

    the key point, as always, is that if it wasnt worth being sacked for then he shouldnt have been sacked

    if companies cared that much about the size of payouts, they wouldnt make such a balls up of simple processes governing disciplinary matters.

    Someone questioned if it was sexual harassment.
    Jam simply pointed out that it was, albeit, on the minor side of things.

    and?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    QxZe.gif


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 814 ✭✭✭debok


    Did he not ask for consent?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,754 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    D3V!L wrote: »
    What about the woman he sexually harassed ?

    Its not he actually won the 4-in-a-row, is it ? He was just a creepy chef who tried it on with a female co-worker.

    So "trying it on" with a female is now creepy...?

    Problem here is that the consent awareness people want everyone to ask first, (and rightfully so), but then asking is ALSO deemed harassment....??!

    No wonder people are ****ign confused.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    utnJsin


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    So "trying it on" with a female is now creepy...?

    Problem here is that the consent awareness people want everyone to ask first, (and rightfully so), but then asking is ALSO deemed harassment....??!

    No wonder people are ****ign confused.

    Sorry, I forgot to put the sarcasm tags on that post :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    D3V!L wrote: »
    Sorry, I forgot to put the sarcasm tags on that post :pac:
    I'm not sure the sarcasm tags would work there - are you sure you didn't just realise you were being ridiculous?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭D3V!L


    Ficheall wrote: »
    I'm not sure the sarcasm tags would work there - are you sure you didn't just realise you were being ridiculous?

    I believe my track record here will further re-enforce my previous statement your honour.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    So "trying it on" with a female is now creepy...?

    Problem here is that the consent awareness people want everyone to ask first, (and rightfully so), but then asking is ALSO deemed harassment....??!

    No wonder people are ****ign confused.

    Unless you're really thick, it's not confusing at all. You won't go far wrong if you behave appropriately towards your colleagues, especially if you don't know them well - i.e. don't ask them to kiss you because some sports team won a game. They're there to do a job, not to satisfy your creepy urges.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    I thought he just won 17.50


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,106 ✭✭✭turbot


    For the avoidance of doubt, my use of the following language is intended only and wholly in terms of the interpretation of "silly and fruit" and in no way suggestive of "anatomical likeness".

    I find this whole thing to be a bit bananas*

    *Should you in anyway internalise a potential interpretation derivation of this statement as relating to anatomical likeness, please consider your brain a potential risk for you and others.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    So "trying it on" with a female is now creepy...?

    Problem here is that the consent awareness people want everyone to ask first, (and rightfully so), but then asking is ALSO deemed harassment....??!

    No wonder people are ****ign confused.


    Yes. its creepy. Don't try it on with us in work. We are there to earn money.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    I thought he just won 17.50

    i thought he won 17 and a half million!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    No surprise at this one and deserved payout IMO. A conversation on workplace behaviour and maybe a grovelling apology at most. Man was just being an eejit.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Are women just too fragile for the work place or just too fragile when it suits !


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    blinding wrote: »
    Are women just too fragile for the work place or just too fragile when it suits !

    Misogyny aside, some people just want to go to work and do their job, without being hassled by some clown who thinks he's 'great craic'.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,034 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    Yes. its creepy. Don't try it on with us in work.
    Or other social situation, according to the definition you quoted, right?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Misogyny aside, some people just want to go to work and do their job, without being hassled by some clown who thinks he's 'great craic'.
    So women are too fragile for a bit of banter and are not able to cope with a bit of banter .

    Maybe they just want a safe space back at home !

    When they said they wanted equality was it too much to expect they could handle a bit of banter .

    Women up . They just discredit genuine cases .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,379 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    The problem here was the company's stupid zero tolerance policy. HR like these policies because it means they don't have to engage their brains or use their judgment. A verbal warning would've been sufficient.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    Hmmm i'll reserve some judgement here as i think this comes down to the content of their working "relationship" he could well be an absolute sleazy k!nt and the job had had enough and bypassed normal protocal


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,349 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Seems like the right decision. A word from HR should have been enough.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    The problem here was the company's stupid zero tolerance policy. HR like these policies because it means they don't have to engage their brains or use their judgment. A verbal warning would've been sufficient.
    HR could just have kissed and made up with the Guy . Probably fine if they were all guys .


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Hmmm i'll reserve some judgement here as i think comes comes down to the content of their working "relationship" he could well be an absolute sleazy k!nt and the job had had enough and bypassed normal protocal
    All we have is the article in the OP to go on and it does highlight the disproportionate response of the company. As it also states and as mentioned on this thread there are less severe means of dealing with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Ficheall wrote: »
    Or other social situation, according to the definition you quoted, right?

    No just work. I don't think that is a crazy idea that you should be able to go to your job without getting creeped on. Maybe it is.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    blinding wrote: »
    So women are too fragile for a bit of banter and are not able to cope with a bit of banter .

    Maybe they just want a safe space back at home !

    When they said they wanted equality was it too much to expect they could handle a bit of banter .

    Women up . They just discredit genuine cases .

    What a thick post, on so many levels. I know your intention is to bash women, but you unwittingly do men a disservice. Most of us have a bit of cop on and know who we can and can't engage in 'banter' with. He was in the job four days.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    is_that_so wrote: »
    All we have is the article in the OP to go on and it does highlight the disproportionate response of the company.

    I have a feeling this story has a lot more to the background than what we know of


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    blinding wrote: »
    So women are too fragile for a bit of banter and are not able to cope with a bit of banter .

    Maybe they just want a safe space back at home !

    When they said they wanted equality was it too much to expect they could handle a bit of banter .

    Women up . They just discredit genuine cases .

    Maybe just don't ask for kisses in work. What you consider "banter" may not be considered by others. So just don't. You are fragile if you don't want creeps trying it on with you. I see.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    I have a feeling this story has a lot more to the background than what we know of
    Well WRC has deemed it unfair dismissal and they didn't follow any form of procedure. Procedures are there for everyone including addressing how people behave as well as varying levels of sanctions.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Well WRC has deemed it unfair dismissal and they didn't follow any form of procedure. Procedures are there for everyone including addressing how people behave as are the varying levels of sanctions.

    I agree, they (Company) dealt with it incorrectly and the judgement was correct


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭Diceicle


    Its certainly possible that the complailant was dressed in a workplace-inappropriate or sexually suggestive clothing - which may have given off the wrong message. Leave the high-heels, low-cut blouses and make-up at home, ladies.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,379 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    What a thick post, on so many levels. I know your intention is to bash women, but you unwittingly do men a disservice. Most of us have a bit of cop on and know who we can and can't engage in 'banter' with. He was in the job four days.

    Three years according to the article, but had been working with the complainant for just 4 days.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,907 ✭✭✭Stevieluvsye


    Diceicle wrote: »
    Its certainly possible that the complailant was dressed in a workplace-inappropriate or sexually suggestive clothing - which may have given off the wrong message. Leave the high-heels, low-cut blouses and make-up at home, ladies.

    Speculation

    It's certainly possible she was dressed in a wooly jumper, jeans and wellies


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    Diceicle wrote: »
    Its certainly possible that the complailant was dressed in a workplace-inappropriate or sexually suggestive clothing - which may have given off the wrong message. Leave the high-heels, low-cut blouses and make-up at home, ladies.
    Jesus Christ.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Three years according to the article, but had been working with the complainant for just 4 days.

    They'd worked together for just four days. In that situation, I think most of us wouldn't dream of behaving like that.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    The ladies can’t cut it in the work place . Time off for periods , time off for the menopause , can’t handle a bit of banter , when the going gets tough / heavy , let the men do it . Long hours ; let the men do it . Work far from home ; let the men do it .

    Women have found the work place much harder than they thought it was and find every and any exuse to do a runner to their safe place at home watching Good Morning TV and the Like .

    Give it up Ladies most of ye would be much happier at home with yer’e feet up .


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    They'd worked together for just four days. In that situation, I think most of us wouldn't dream of behaving like that.
    For all we know she may have been pouting at him for 4 days .


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    Diceicle wrote: »
    Its certainly possible that the complailant was dressed in a workplace-inappropriate or sexually suggestive clothing - which may have given off the wrong message. Leave the high-heels, low-cut blouses and make-up at home, ladies.
    blinding wrote: »
    The ladies can’t cut it in the work place . Time off for periods , time off for the menopause , can’t handle a bit of banter , when the going gets tough / heavy , let the men do it . Long hours ; let the men do it . Work far from home ; let the men do it .

    Women have found the work place much harder than they thought it was and find every and very exude to do a runner to their safe place at home watching Good Morning TV and the Like .

    Give it up Ladies most of ye would be much happier at home with yer’e feet up .

    It's like you're trying to compete with each other for who can make the thickest post.

    It's a draw.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,731 ✭✭✭jam_mac_jam


    It's like you're trying to compete with each other for who can make the thickest post.

    It's a draw.

    Yep. I'm out, what is even the point.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,379 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    They'd worked together for just four days. In that situation, I think most of us wouldn't dream of behaving like that.

    Absolutely, doesn't change the fact the company lost the unfair dismissal hearing.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    D3V!L wrote: »
    I believe my track record here will further re-enforce my previous statement your honour.

    Overruled.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,812 ✭✭✭Brock Turnpike


    To be perfectly honest, he sounds like the worst type of Dublin fan. Why does he think that him going out to celebrate Dublin winning 4-in-a-row deserves a kiss?


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