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The Joe Schmidt era.

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13567…21

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    #62
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    Who said that? His achievements have been acknowledged, on the flip side, his world cup failures can't be ignored.


    Do you have to drag every thread down with the same rubbish...


    Ok you dont like Joe, we get that.



    Move on


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    #63
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,568 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    JJJackal wrote: »
    He didnt fall well short. Semi-final would have been success. He got to 2 quarter finals. We were within a point of Argentina with 20 minutes to go...

    Historically weak 6N - Ireland beat England who were lining up a record number of wins - 18 or so? Wales you say are strong under a flair guy?

    France happen to be weak. Wales and England, as this world cup will show, are strong. Scotland and Italy are at the same level they have been at for some time

    He played 6 competitive World Cup games, Ireland were favorites in 5 of the 6 games, yet he only won 3; Italy, Scotland and France. Ireland were turned over by Japan when we were 1/14 on and by Argentina who were a very limited side that got spanked themselves in the semi final, people only talk about injuries before that game but forget we were still favorites to win yet we shipped 40+ points in a 20+ point loss. New Zealand are far better than us but we still performed well below par. Joe has had a decent sample size of games at the real top level and has come up well short.


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    #64
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    Who said that? His achievements have been acknowledged, on the flip side, his world cup failures can't be ignored.

    All those saying he’ll be remembered only for his World Cup campaigns for a start.

    I’ve never said we should ignore anything, only that we shouldn’t allow those failures to define the best manager we’ve ever had.

    We can’t turn against him because he didn’t achieve something that none of our previous managers have. That’s just unreasonable.


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    #65
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Do you have to drag every thread down with the same rubbish...


    Ok you dont like Joe, we get that.



    Move on

    I do like Joe. This thread is about the Joe Schmidt era. If you don't want to reflect on it, then move on yourself. :)


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    #66
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,096 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Seeing as every other Irish coached "failed" at a world cup... Then the standards that Schmidt will be considered against are level all round.

    So taking that great leveller out for everyone, Schmidt was, by far, our most successful coach in his era when every other metric is applied. Six nations, win percentages, consistent World ranking positions, historic wins against southern hemisphere teams where every other coach came up short.....

    Anyone who calls his era a failure is either deliberately trolling just to be contraversal, or they don't know much about Irish rugby history.


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    #67
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,444 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    His tenure has some great moments and some terrible moments, but the great ones outnumber the terrible ones significantly.

    Overall he'll be seen as a very successful coach, definitely the most successful to date, and hopefully he'll be looked back on as the person who kick-started a change in Irish Rugby in general, but at the same time there will be some disappointments and failures during his tenure that will be hard to overlook.


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    #68
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    All those saying he’ll be remembered only for his World Cup campaigns for a start.

    I’ve never said we should ignore anything, only that we shouldn’t allow those failures to define the best manager we’ve ever had.

    Well, in fairness, managers are usually remembered by their final campaigns. This wasn't a good one. His reputation has been seriously damaged this year.


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    #69
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    No! Why can't you judge our performance now? We were a rabble, nothing else that happens will change that. We lost by 23 to Argentina. These are facts, they can't be debated. Schmidt's world cup record is awful, no hiding from it.

    If NZ steam roll Engalnd and Another... the defeat wont be as bad

    You keep referencing 23. A loss is a loss. The available players gave it a good go on that day and could have overturned it


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    #70
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Seeing as every other Irish coached "failed" at a world cup... Then the standards that Schmidt will be considered against are level all round.

    So taking that great leveller out for everyone, Schmidt was, by far, our most successful coach in his era when every other metric is applied. Six nations, win percentages, consistent World ranking positions, historic wins against southern hemisphere teams where every other coach came up short.....

    Anyone who calls his era a failure is either deliberately trolling just to be contraversal, or they don't know much about Irish rugby history.

    He was our greatest ever manager who failed at world cups. Just because other coaches have failed at world cups doesn't take away from that.


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    #71
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    Well, in fairness, managers are usually remembered by their final campaigns. This wasn't a good one. His reputation has been seriously damaged this year.

    In your eyes maybe. Those of us capable of more reasonable and fair thinking will remember him for more than just one campaign.


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    #72
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    Well, in fairness, managers are usually remembered by their final campaigns. This wasn't a good one. His reputation has been seriously damaged this year.


    No it hasn't.....if Joe turned around tomorrow and said be was available to work, every club and country in the World would be after him


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    #73
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    JJJackal wrote: »
    If NZ steam roll Engalnd and Another... the defeat wont be as bad

    You keep referencing 23. A loss is a loss. The available players gave it a good go on that day and could have overturned it

    Getting destroyed in games is not good, record defeats are not good, there's no fudging this.


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    #74
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    In your eyes maybe. Those of us capable of more reasonable and fair thinking will remember him for more than just one campaign.

    I remember him for the great work he did. All I'm saying is that his world cup record is awful. I don't know how anyone can deny this.


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    #75
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    No it hasn't.....if Joe turned around tomorrow and said be was available to work, every club and country in the World would be after him

    That has nothing to do with the disastrous year we've had under his leadership.


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    #76
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    I remember him for the great work he did. All I'm saying is that his world cup record is awful. I don't know how anyone can deny this.


    His WC record is not awful. He got to 2 qtr's.....if he got knocked out in group stage then yes awful


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    #77
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    I remember him for the great work he did. All I'm saying is that his world cup record is awful. I don't know how anyone can deny this.

    Once again who exactly is denying this?

    We’re just saying you cannot allow it to color your entire view of the man. The things he’s achieved cannot be denied or ignored as you seem determined to do.


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    #78
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    That has nothing to do with the disastrous year we've had under his leadership.


    As I said, another thread ruined ....you already discussed all this on the Ireland thread and the game thread. Both threads you just blindly slag off Joe and his achievements so why ruin this thread with the same rubbish?


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    #79
    ricero
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,348 ✭✭✭✭ricero


    A missed opportunity is how I look back at his era


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    #80
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,444 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    His WC record is not awful. He got to 2 qtr's.....if he got knocked out in group stage then yes awful

    His WC record is fairly poor, in fairness. It's the one competition he never really got to grips with. Getting out of a pool in a RWC is not really worth shouting about.


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    #81
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    His WC record is not awful. He got to 2 qtr's.....if he got knocked out in group stage then yes awful

    2015 we had France and Italy, this year we had Japan and Scotland. Reaching the quarter finals is the absolute minimum! Losing to Japan is up there with our worst world cup defeat and then the two quarter final loses were by a record margin and by 23 points. The facts are there.


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    #82
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    AudreyHepburn wrote: »
    Once again who exactly is denying this?

    We’re just saying you cannot allow it to color your entire view of the man. The things he’s achieved cannot be denied or ignored as you seem determined to do.

    Right above this post you just made even:
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    His WC record is not awful. He got to 2 qtr's.....if he got knocked out in group stage then yes awful


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    #83
    Danthemanhere
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 277 ✭✭Danthemanhere


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    As I said, another thread ruined ....you already discussed all this on the Ireland thread and the game thread. Both threads you just blindly slag off Joe and his achievements so why ruin this thread with the same rubbish?

    As I said, this is a thread to reflect on the Joe Schmidt era, if you don't want to, then just leave. :)


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    #84
    Andreas77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 183 ✭✭Andreas77


    If I was Irish I would prefer three Six Nations to a losing semi, or even third place in a World Cup. Joe Schmidt has been a gift for Ireland. Any team would be delighted to have him.


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    #85
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    JJJackal wrote: »
    Realistically we were number 1 in the world. The hard work to facilitate this was done in 2018. Prior to the world cup in 2019, we had only lost to England and Wales (beating wales twice and losing once). We were unbeaten for many many months before the England loss.

    Based on how rankings are calculated we were clearly number 1.

    Record as number one team in the world.

    1. Biggest ever defeat to England.
    2. First loss to Japan.
    3. Record defeat in a WC game.

    He was successful at the start. Was downhill for the past year.


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    #86
    tritriagain
    Registered Users Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭tritriagain


    Andreas77 wrote: »
    If I was Irish I would prefer three Six Nations to a losing semi, or even third place in a World Cup. Joe Schmidt has been a gift for Ireland. Any team would be delighted to have him.

    I agree Joe has had great success for Ireland but don't necessarily agree any team would want him. His tactics at times have to be questioned. We certainly never had a plan to chase a game from behind. Personally think garland is a far better coach.


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    #87
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,096 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Danthemanhere wrote: »
    He was our greatest ever manager who failed at world cups. Just because other coaches have failed at world cups doesn't take away from that.

    No it doesn't, it just doesn't put him ahead of anyone else when it comes to the RWC


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    #88
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    awec wrote: »
    His WC record is fairly poor, in fairness. It's the one competition he never really got to grips with. Getting out of a pool in a RWC is not really worth shouting about.

    Tell EOS that...England and Wales have also failed at group stages....Scotland very recently as well

    It is one competition that won’t be his favourite alright


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    #89
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,162 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    He’s been great for us. He’s definitely left Irish rugby in a better place than when he took over and his legacy will be a positive one. The future of Irish rugby is bright with plenty of young players coming through. However there is no denying that this World Cup performance is a black mark. It wasn’t just the nature of the defeat we looked so one dimensional. I think like many others I believed we had a few more tricks up our sleeve that would be revealed in the quarters and when that wasn’t the case it was a bit bewildering. Also some of his decisions around selection seemed off, sticking with veteran players who are past it etc. Overall probably an 8 out of 10


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    #90
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Record as number one team in the world.

    1. Biggest ever defeat to England.
    2. First loss to Japan.
    3. Record defeat in a WC game.

    He was successful at the start. Was downhill for the past year.

    Is the start the previous 5 years?


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    #91
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    tritriagain wrote: »
    I agree Joe has had great success for Ireland but don't necessarily agree any team would want him. His tactics at times have to be questioned. We certainly never had a plan to chase a game from behind. Personally think garland is a far better coach.

    Gatland has been around wales for 12 years and welsh rugby is a disaster, they are failing to promote young players from u20 to senior....the clubs don’t know what is going on.....

    Joe has changed Irish rugby from roots up, with Nucifora of course but huge changes and put Irish rugby in a really bright future...something Gatland hasn’t done with Wales and certainly would never have done with ireland


This discussion has been closed.
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