Calling out fellow cyclists for illegal or dangerous behavior

AulWan

CramCycle wrote: »

MOD VOICE: Attack the post, not the poster, handbags down.

Oh so you get to attack me, but when I respond in kind, you put on your MOD voice?

Have it your way so. I'm out.

CramCycle

AulWan wrote: »

I would like to provide you with similar stats from my commute home last night, but unfortunately I was behind the wheel of a 1 ton machine and my attention was focused on keeping my eyes on the road and anticipating the actions of other road users rather then counting the number of rules they broke.

(Though I'm pretty sure I would have noticed any cars breaking red lights, but didn't see any - sorry).

It wasn't exactly challenging, I was sitting at a red light and counting, hardly a great distraction. Are you sure you are safe driving a car if this would be considered a great distraction? Hopefully we commute in different parts of the country, because it really seems like you struggle with even rudimentary tasks while driving and have to pay extra attention to notice identifiable info about other road users. I mean I have a camera but I notice other road users, some more memorable than others but I can give a half decent description of them if needs be. Really good 155 driver last night was 50+, wearing a baseball cap which I thought unusual, slouched over a bit but shorter than me. The majority of red light runners in cars were either middle aged or older females or young (sub 30) males. The cyclist who ran the first set of lights had runners, blue football socks to his knees. The next one was younger, early 20s on a town bike. My attention was on everything because as a vulnerable road user, not paying attention increases my risk of an accident. All of that info is just random bits that I remember and i have a terrible memory. I was paying enough attention to notice every bus user who was about to step out before they did and slow down accordingly, notice every twitch of the wheel of car that went past that meant that they were going to turn or pull in without indicating. I noticed alot of pedestrians walking on the bike path in the dark well before i got to them (and hopped into the bus lane rather than being a d1ck), I noticed 3 cyclists with sub standard light s (IMO), another 3 with just reflectors and hi vis. One guy had just forgotten to turn on his rear light, I let him know as I passed. I noticed at least 20 drivers with only DRLS, another 10 with one busted dim and one with only one brake light, this again was far lower in number for all the groups I mentioned than normal. I seen 8 pedestrians walk across the N11 without a pedestrian light,3 were away from junctions.

You are also in a car so I imagine, at many junctions you were not at the front on a red light so possibly missed infractions by several road users, but I will be honest, I don't expect people to remember these details, i had to sit and think because they were not important to me but I would expect people to notice them at the time because if you don't notice the obvious, what hope have you of the not so obvious.

cdaly_

SusieBlue wrote: »

I saw a woman (not for the first time) this morning, weaving through rush hour traffic in the pouring rain carrying a small baby no older than 6 months old in a forward facing sling.
Absolutely reckless behavior, even the most minor of falls or collisions could crush that baby to death if the woman fell forward or off the bike. I told her if I see her doing it again I'm calling the Gards but she wasn't remotely interested or bothered. The baby was also getting soaked because he/she had no shelter from the rain.
So bloody dangerous and selfish.

Probably the safest place to be in a fall. Mother will use arms and legs to protect the baby.

Incidentally, did you know that the majority of child deaths in Ireland occur in cars? You should consider that before you recklessly strap your kids in...

CramCycle

AulWan wrote: »

Oh so you get to attack me, but when I respond in kind, you put on your MOD voice?

Have it your way so. I'm out.

MOD VOICE: Apologies if I did, I cannot see it, Lets take it to PM and you can explain where I missed it. Do not discuss further in thread.

AndrewJRenko

07Lapierre wrote: »

If only the Gardai would accept video evidence from GoPro’s...it could then be enforced by everyone.

They do accept evidence. I've reported a few drivers for mobile phone use, and Gardai have issued FCPNs. None of my cases have gone to Court.



It is a fairly painful process though, with long wait times on the Garda TrafficWatch phone lines, delays in the local station following up, the difficulty in finding a time that suits you and the assigned Garda's shift to give a statement, the hour or so that it takes to give a hand-written statement to the Garda, and the chasing of the Garda after a month or two to hear the outcome.


Several of the UK forces provide an online portal to streamline the whole process, so you basically submit the video and sit back and wait to hear of the prosecution. Six points and a hefty fine for phone use over there.

magicbastarder wrote: »

by gum, i didn't realise my cycling shorts made me smug.

They make you sNug, not smug.

RobbieMD wrote: »

Any idea how other jurisdictions work around it? I can see the issue our AG had with the proposed legislation, and this latest proposal seems like a sensible alternative.

Not really, but it seems to happen without full or drama in several US states and in the UK. Check out @trafficwmp on Twitter to see how they frequenty prosecute motorists for this particular offence.

AulWan wrote: »

If, by some stretch of the imagination, this did actually happen, and its not just your usual need to defend and justify all bad behaviour by cyclists, then the odds of a car being an unregistered write off and unidentifiable, is very, very small.

Whereas EVERY cyclist is unregistered and unidentifiable.

Weak excuse.

Really? Very, very small? Is that based on anything in particular?



And what particularly makes cyclists unidentifiable compared to say, pedestrians? Do all pedestrians need reg numbers now to cover the cases where they step out in front of me without looking?

AndrewJRenko

AulWan wrote: »

(Though I'm pretty sure I would have noticed any cars breaking red lights, but didn't see any - sorry).

What's your route? I'd be happy to spend a bit of time at those junctions and show you the videos of drivers breaking red lights. I should be able to pick out a good number with the phones in their hands. If it's in the 30 kmph zone, I might even catch a few visibly speeding, to confirm the RSA report issued recently showing that 98% of drivers break urban speed limits.

AndrewJRenko

AulWan wrote: »

I do not have an irrational hatred of cyclists. I do get annoyed by the type of cycling fanatics who will defend bad behaviour by cyclists to the end even when it is indefensible to any other reasonable person. And they do it by pointing their fingers at other road users and shout "well, they do it too!" *sulk, pout*.

It's not so much 'they do it too' as 'they do it so much better that they kill a couple of people each week' *sulk, pout*.

magicbastarder

as AulWan said 'I'm out', i suspect there's no point asking questions of him or her now.

SusieBlue

cdaly_ wrote: »

Probably the safest place to be in a fall. Mother will use arms and legs to protect the baby.

Incidentally, did you know that the majority of child deaths in Ireland occur in cars? You should consider that before you recklessly strap your kids in...

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?
if she is hit by a car or even cycles over a deep pothole and falls off, she won't be able to save the child. The sheer force will cause her to fall on top of the child. Her weight alone would be enough to cause serious injury or even death.
Its beyond reckless and dangerous.

This thread isn't about car safety so I don't see what relevance that has.

Seth Brundle

SusieBlue wrote: »

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?
if she is hit by a car or even cycles over a deep pothole and falls off, she won't be able to save the child. The sheer force will cause her to fall on top of the child. Her weight alone would be enough to cause serious injury or even death.
Its beyond reckless and dangerous.

This thread isn't about car safety so I don't see what relevance that has.

What exactly is she doing wrong or illegal?
If your answer is that she us not doing anything wrong or illegal then it's none of your business!
You're accusing her of being a bad mother because of a possibility and presumably your bias against cyclists.
Would you be as militant if she was walking along a main road? She could get knocked down and we know that most pedestrians will cross a road illegally when it suits them!

AndrewJRenko

SusieBlue wrote: »

I saw a woman (not for the first time) this morning, weaving through rush hour traffic in the pouring rain carrying a small baby no older than 6 months old in a forward facing sling.
Absolutely reckless behavior, even the most minor of falls or collisions could crush that baby to death if the woman fell forward or off the bike. I told her if I see her doing it again I'm calling the Gards but she wasn't remotely interested or bothered. The baby was also getting soaked because he/she had no shelter from the rain.
So bloody dangerous and selfish.

I saw loads of these in Amsterdam. It did cause me a double-take tbh, because I haven't seen it before, but they all seemed to survive. No babies drowned in the Amsterdam drizzle. No-one got crushed.



Are you against people walking with babies in slings, given that the most minor fall could crush the baby to death, apparently?

Time wrote: »

What streets are empty enough during the day that a car can even do that!?!

Shai wrote: »

Lincoln Lane. Taxi drivers seem to love using it as a shortcut to get onto the quays. Spotted it a few times on Inchicore Road as well.

Hang out on Richmond Avenue South in Rathmines around school opening or closing time and watch the parents from Alex save themselves three minutes by cutting down the one-way section. The photo shows a JCB driving down the one-way section while loads of kids walk up to school.


Winton Ave off Appian Way is another spot used as a rat run.

AndrewJRenko

SusieBlue wrote: »

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?

Same way as any walking parent can use their arms and legs to save the baby if they trip on a kerb.

SusieBlue

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes and she appears to take very little care of where she's going. I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago. She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.
The way she goes about would be dangerous even without the baby in her arms. If she falls off that bike, which she inevitably will one of these days with the sheer disregard she has for her own safety, she'll cause serious harm to the baby.

I'm not talking about someone going for a leisurely Sunday cycle through the local park with their baby, this is rush hour traffic I'm talking about.

I thought this thread was about cyclists calling out fellow cyclists for dangerous behaviour but there's a lot of fixation here on pedestrians/motorists also doing dangerous things. I don't think anyone is denying they do, but its not the topic of the thread

Ready4Boarding

droidus wrote: »

I was stopped at a set of traffic lights yesterday and a cyclist blew through red light. A driver actually rolled down his window and said to me " Thats what gives you guys a bad name"

You would have been justified if you punched him in the face.

Imagine actually believing that! Astonishing.

cdaly_

SusieBlue wrote: »

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes and she appears to take very little care of where she's going. I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago. She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.
The way she goes about would be dangerous even without the baby in her arms. If she falls off that bike, which she inevitably will one of these days with the sheer disregard she has for her own safety, she'll cause serious harm to the baby.

I'm not talking about someone going for a leisurely Sunday cycle through the local park with their baby, this is rush hour traffic I'm talking about.

I thought this thread was about cyclists calling out fellow cyclists for dangerous behaviour but there's a lot of fixation here on pedestrians/motorists also doing dangerous things. I don't think anyone is denying they do, but its not the topic of the thread

Ha! I forgot the thread title!

I still maintain that on her front is the safest place for the baby to be if she has to bring the baby. Her behaviour may increase her risk of a fall 'tis true...

07Lapierre

SusieBlue wrote: »

Completely disagree, how can she use her arms and legs to save the baby if she goes over the handlebars?
if she is hit by a car or even cycles over a deep pothole and falls off, she won't be able to save the child. The sheer force will cause her to fall on top of the child. Her weight alone would be enough to cause serious injury or even death.
Its beyond reckless and dangerous.

This thread isn't about car safety so I don't see what relevance that has.

If this lady was walking and she tripped, she “could” fall on top of the baby? The risk is about the same while cycling. I doubt she was cycling at 50kph! I suspect she was cycling a lot slower than that.

All activities have riscjs but as usual, the risks associated with cycling are always blow completely out of proportion.

CramCycle

SusieBlue wrote: »

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes

So what? most of the country does not have cycle lanes.

I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago.

Go to the gardai with this, you see her regularly, she clearly must live or work in or near the area. Stop, take a video on your phone, bring it to the Garda station and report it. Explain to the Garda that you understand that resources are limited but that she is carrying a child while breaking these rules and is a daner to herself, the child and others.

She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.

Again, doesn't matter. The fact that you could see her proves this point.

I'm not talking about someone going for a leisurely Sunday cycle through the local park with their baby, this is rush hour traffic I'm talking about.

I commuted with my son on the bike in rush hour traffic loads of times without issue. I didn't cycle like the way the one you are describing did but there is no risk to having a child on a bike.

I thought this thread was about cyclists calling out fellow cyclists for dangerous behaviour but there's a lot of fixation here on pedestrians/motorists also doing dangerous things. I don't think anyone is denying they do, but its not the topic of the thread

I think those posts are pointing out the pointlessness of going after many of the incidents full force by the Gardai when they don't even go after the ones that are far more likely to cause a death or serious injury.

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

Imagine actually believing that! Astonishing.

I had a driver wind down his window to tell me I should have a bell on my bike, nothing should surprise you when commuting.

Wishbone Ash

Time wrote: »

.... which i can honestly say i have yet to see a vehicle do in the city centre.

Happens all the time on Green Street in the city center. It's one way southbound but I regularly encounter vehicles coming against me. To add insult to injury, most of them expect those of us going the correct way to take evasive action.

AndrewJRenko

SusieBlue wrote: »

I was on a bike myself when I saw her, the route I regulary see her on does not have cycle lanes and she appears to take very little care of where she's going. I have seen her weave across lanes in front of busses, ignore red lights at busy junctions, and she almost knocked down a pedestrian who was crossing the road a few weeks ago. She doesn't wear reflective clothing either.

Congrats on seeing her all the same without any reflective clothing.

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

Imagine actually believing that! Astonishing.

The best quick response is something along the lines of 'did the drivers who killed two people last weekend give all you drivers a bad name?'.

Ready4Boarding

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

The best quick response is something along the lines of 'did the drivers who killed two people last weekend give all you drivers a bad name?'.

You, I remember, were one of the people to thank that odious post.

tomasrojo

magicbastarder wrote: »

i do this all the time in certain car parks.

It seems to be really common. I didn't really notice until a few years ago. I guess I don't park in car parks all that much.

tomasrojo

Ready4Boarding wrote: »

You, I remember, were one of the people to thank that odious post.

It's just exaggeration, a common rhetorical device.

Wishbone Ash

I was travelling southbound on the R127 this morning (between Skerries and Lusk) and met a cyclist coming towards me on the wrong side of the road. (For those not familiar with it, it's a busy ordinary 2 way road with no hard shoulder.)

I raised my hand as if to say 'WTF are you doing' and she did the same in response. You'd wonder what is going on inside the heads of such people.

CramCycle

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

I was travelling southbound on the R127 this morning (between Skerries and Lusk) and met a cyclist coming towards me on the wrong side of the road. (For those not familiar with it, it's a busy ordinary 2 way road with no hard shoulder.)

I raised my hand as if to say 'WTF are you doing' and she did the same in response. You'd wonder what is going on inside the heads of such people.

Alot of people are brought up with the opinion that cyclists and pedestrians are the same, therefore cyclists should go against traffic. I found this growing up in rural Longford that a small number of people would educate you and tell you that you should be on the other side for safety. I thought it died out but I am sure some still think this way. Over the years I have had people tell me I was allowed run reds as a cyclist, not joking, actually trying to be helpful, motorists and pedestrians. It's one of the main reasons I think a course in national school and one as part of the junior cycle makes the most sense, so everyone knows the do's and don'ts of road use as a pedestrian, cyclist and motorist. My only concern is how wrong they would get it.

tomasrojo

I think it's mentioned in Effective Cycling (the belief that cyclists should, like pedestrians, travel towards oncoming traffic) as a persistent belief in some parts of the USA.

Tombo2001

SusieBlue wrote: »

I saw a woman (not for the first time) this morning, weaving through rush hour traffic in the pouring rain carrying a small baby no older than 6 months old in a forward facing sling.
Absolutely reckless behavior, even the most minor of falls or collisions could crush that baby to death if the woman fell forward or off the bike. I told her if I see her doing it again I'm calling the Gards but she wasn't remotely interested or bothered. The baby was also getting soaked because he/she had no shelter from the rain.
So bloody dangerous and selfish.

I think you are absolutely way out here.

Plenty of parents including myself have cycled with kids that are strapped into a seat on a bike - in my view this is far more dangerous than the situation you describe.

And to go telling her you are calling the gardai - really, what are you thinking.

Do you call the guards everytime you see a punter driving through a red light?

plodder

I suppose weaving through traffic always looks more dangerous to onlookers, and carrying a small child makes it look way worse.

I used to see a chap pulling a trailer with a child in it, breaking lights and one time stopping in the median of a dual carriageway with the trailer sticking out - absolutely insane. I would have said something if I caught up with him. More recently, saw a chap on the path carrying his toddler under the shoulders, in one arm, with the kid's legs dangling over one side and he steering with the other hand. He was going slowly and I could only hope and assume he was traveling a very short distance. But, it didn't look good.

Tombo2001

plodder wrote: »

I suppose weaving through traffic always looks more dangerous to onlookers, and carrying a small child makes it look way worse.

I used to see a chap pulling a trailer with a child in it, breaking lights and one time stopping in the median of a dual carriageway with the trailer sticking out - absolutely insane. I would have said something if I caught up with him. More recently, saw a chap on the path carrying his toddler under the shoulders, in one hand, with the kid's legs dangling over one side and he steering with the other hand. He was going slowly and I could only hope and assume he was traveling a very short distance. But, it didn't look good.

If there is one group of people that is even more used to being lectured than cyclists about all the things they are doing wrong, its parents of young kids....

jim o doom

I have had 2 of these:

While driving motorbike up Wexford st, a cyclist kept popping out of the cycle lane inches in front of a bus without ever once checking it it was safe to do so, or even indicating his intent to come out of the cycle lane, bus was very wary of this suicidal lad.

At a set of lights I called him on it, he spluttered out some excuse, I told him "that doesn't matter if you get yourself flattened by a bus". He proceeded to evade me by cycling through a red pedestrian light. Once it changed I drove past him intentionally laughing loudly enough for him to hear it.

This week crossing the canal to Rathmines on my bicycle, a lad goes through the red (cutting across the canal), close enough to where a cyclist was killed by an ambulance / firetruck in the last few years. Catch up with him in Rathmines and tell him "dude you went through the light at the canal, it's mad dangerous to do that there, a cyclist died doing it".

He responded in a thick country accent that he hadn't, I replied yes you did, I was right beside you before you did it.. he goes "so what next? are you going to give me a warning?" I looked at him flabbergasted.. "A warning? dude I'm telling you that you are a f&*ing idiot".. he looked doubly confused and went "oh right?" and I cycled off. I had a zipped up high viz jacket on, so maybe he thought I was a gard.. but I really don't look like one, beard and the like.

Duckjob

plodder wrote: »

I suppose weaving through traffic always looks more dangerous to onlookers, and carrying a small child makes it look way worse.

I used to see a chap pulling a trailer with a child in it, breaking lights and one time stopping in the median of a dual carriageway with the trailer sticking out - absolutely insane. I would have said something if I caught up with him. More recently, saw a chap on the path carrying his toddler under the shoulders, in one arm, with the kid's legs dangling over one side and he steering with the other hand. He was going slowly and I could only hope and assume he was traveling a very short distance. But, it didn't look good.

TBH I never take descriptions like "weaving through traffic" on trust from other people in the first place as they're far too subjective and based on the bias of the person saying them.

I've seen perfectly safe and legal cyclist filtering described by people as "weaving through traffic".

I've seen people described as "cycling in the middle of the road" or "cycling all over the road" when they had the temerity to leave the bit of paint on the left and try to get to a right turn lane to turn right.

I've seen people described as "cycling in the middle of the road" when they were occupying the area specifically allocated for their safety at traffic light junctions.

That sort of commentary is made generally by the same people who highlight non-wearing of certain safety gear as part of a sentence about cyclists "bad behavior".

I often carry my daughter the short distance home from school to home on the cross bar of my bike. Never had an incident and the least safe I've ever felt was hearing idiots approaching from behind at inappropriate speeds (in a residential area) and having to slow down quickly behind us.

There's a good reason why you see people people in NL pedalling around happily with kids draped on the front and backs of their bikes:

Not saying accidents never happen, but the biggest danger in cycling doesn't come from falling off your bike - it comes from people driving heavy vehicles around you being unwilling to drive slowly and take care in areas where they share close proximity with unprotected people.