Season Ticket 2020

adrian522

agfasfos wrote: »

Seems strange that the Terms & Conditions can be changed after a contract has been entered into. I'm sure the Supply of Goods & Services act could be invoked. I'm not unduly concerned to be honest, we have enough to worry about. It does seem unfair that such a broad scope for changing T's & C's can be afforded to one party to a contract.

I don't think that would stand up to scrutiny if someone wanted to challenge it. Just because something is in terms and conditions doesn't mean it will hold up.

The idea that you can change conditions of a contract without notifying the other party would certainly not hold up.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-contract-terms/index_en.htm

Every time you buy a product or service from a professional trader, you're entering into a contract - whether it's signing up for gym membership, ordering car tyres online, getting a mortgage for your house or even just buying your weekly shopping from the supermarket.

Under EU law, standard contract terms used by traders have to be fair. This doesn't change if they're called "terms and conditions" or are part of a detailed contract that you actually have to sign. The contract is not allowed to create an imbalance between your rights and obligations as a consumer and the rights and obligations of sellers and suppliers.

Contract terms must be drafted in plain, understandable language. Any ambiguities will be interpreted in your favour.

Potentially unfair terms

In addition to the general requirement of "good faith" and "balance", EU rules contain a list of specific terms that may be judged unfair. If specific terms in a contract are unfair, they are not binding on you and the trader may not rely on them.

Here are some situations where contract terms may be judged unfair under EU rules:

Hidden Terms

Terms which bind consumers even though they could not easily have been aware of them before signing the contract.

One Sided Changes to a contract

Terms which allow the trader to alter a contract unilaterally, unless the contract states a valid reason for doing so.

Having said all that I'd certainly wait and see how this all plays out before making any judgement but I'd be very disappointed if the GAA attempted to hide behind Terms and Conditions to get out of offering a partial refund or discount against next seasons season ticket.

The examiner article seemed to indicate that is what the GAA are likely to do though.

We will have to employ Joe Brolly to represent the season ticket holders to get a partial refund or discount, look the health insurers are giving back money to the people that buy insurance of them so the gaa will have to show a bit of spirit do the same.

irishgeo

The premier league clubs in England are giving credits to the next seasons tickets as even if games resume supporters wont be allowded attend.

The GAA will do the same.

Luimneach2018

irishgeo wrote: »

The premier league clubs in England are giving credits to the next seasons tickets as even if games resume supporters wont be allowded attend.

The GAA will do the same.

I wouldn't be basing expectations on the actions of wealthy professional clubs (mostly funded by billionaires and in some cases funded by middle eastern states) in a different country playing a different sport.

Edit; Redacted

I believe some form of gesture will probably be made, but I wouldn't be shocked if nothing was done either. They're going to take an unprecedented severe financial hit this year, season ticket will be far down their list of concerns.

kaizersoze

Luimneach2018 wrote: »

I wouldn't be basing expectations on the actions of wealthy professional clubs (mostly funded by billionaires and in some cases funded by middle eastern states) in a different country playing a different sport.

As it stands, all the GAA have done so far since the suspension of games is sneak the word "pandemic" into their no refunds clause in the T's & C's.

I believe some form of gesture will probably be made, but I wouldn't be shocked if nothing was done either. They're going to take an unprecedented severe financial hit this year, season ticket will be far down their list of concerns.

My sentiments exactly.

celticbest

Luimneach2018 wrote: »

I wouldn't be basing expectations on the actions of wealthy professional clubs (mostly funded by billionaires and in some cases funded by middle eastern states) in a different country playing a different sport.

As it stands, all the GAA have done so far since the suspension of games is sneak the word "pandemic" into their no refunds clause in the T's & C's.

I believe some form of gesture will probably be made, but I wouldn't be shocked if nothing was done either. They're going to take an unprecedented severe financial hit this year, season ticket will be far down their list of concerns.

Season tickets are far from being far down their list as was proven when they jumped to add "pandemic" to the T&C's...

irishgeo

Luimneach2018 wrote: »

I wouldn't be basing expectations on the actions of wealthy professional clubs (mostly funded by billionaires and in some cases funded by middle eastern states) in a different country playing a different sport.

As it stands, all the GAA have done so far since the suspension of games is sneak the word "pandemic" into their no refunds clause in the T's & C's.

I believe some form of gesture will probably be made, but I wouldn't be shocked if nothing was done either. They're going to take an unprecedented severe financial hit this year, season ticket will be far down their list of concerns.

They may taken a severe fincainal hit but costs are going to be down too. Trading grants to teams aren't going to be paid. Can't see any upgrades of grounds going ahead. The day to day expenses of running the championship aren't going to accured either.

A hit yes a big enough hit that they can't refund some money to about 30000 season tickets members. I doubt it.

kaizersoze

celticbest wrote: »

Season tickets are far from being far down their list as was proven when they jumped to add "pandemic" to the T&C's...

I renewed mine early november and that was in the T&Cs at that stage. Are they that good to forsee it?
Not sure about last yearss T&Cs.

Luimneach2018

kaizersoze wrote: »

I renewed mine early november and that was in the T&Cs at that stage. Are they that good to forsee it?
Not sure about last yearss T&Cs.

In that case I'd better take that claim back - someone posted here that they had a version of the T's & C's from before the suspension and there was no mention of the word 'pandemic' back then.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

sgarvan

I posted it from looking at the way back machine. This document doesnt contain the pandemic T&C.

Here is the link to the document which is titled GAASeasonTicket2020_Terms&Conditions Final but not dated.

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/lb89vf6brhu3fq6n0vib.pdf

kaizersoze

Luimneach2018 wrote: »

In that case I'd better take that claim back - someone posted here that they had a version of the T's & C's from before the suspension and there was no mention of the word 'pandemic' back then.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

sgarvan wrote: »

I posted it from looking at the way back machine. This document doesnt contain the pandemic T&C.

Here is the link to the document which is titled GAASeasonTicket2020_Terms&Conditions Final but not dated.

https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/lb89vf6brhu3fq6n0vib.pdf

Mmmm. I'm confused now. I bought another additional ticket in January. Maybe that's when i looked at them...

mayo.mick

I'm confused now myself,
2019 T&C's here, https://mayoclub51.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/2019-gaa-season-termsconditions.pdf
No mention of a pandemic.

I'd thought I'd downloaded the 2020 T&C's last November, but can I feck find them now, for the screenshot I took a few weeks ago and posted here.

mayo.mick

From @gaapicks on twitter

https://twitter.com/GAAPicks/status/1255076858263150593?s=09

DDC1990

I wasn't looking for a refund, but this is extremely underhanded IMO.

I've written an email to the Season Ticket office looking for clarification on making a change like this on the 20th March.

Also it states that they can make changes at any time which are accepted based on your continued use of the Season Ticket. However if the changes really did happen on the 20th of March then nobody has used their season ticket since. Does that imply that the terms have not come into effect for us yet?

I'm awful annoyed about this for someone who wasn't seeking a refund. You can be guaranteed plenty of Season Ticket holders have been laid off at this time and money is very tight for many people.

agfasfos

DDC1990 wrote: »

I wasn't looking for a refund, but this is extremely underhanded IMO.

I've written an email to the Season Ticket office looking for clarification on making a change like this on the 20th March.

Also it states that they can make changes at any time which are accepted based on your continued use of the Season Ticket. However if the changes really did happen on the 20th of March then nobody has used their season ticket since. Does that imply that the terms have not come into effect for us yet?

I'm awful annoyed about this for someone who wasn't seeking a refund. You can be guaranteed plenty of Season Ticket holders have been laid off at this time and money is very tight for many people.

To be honest I don't think the GAA have a leg to stand on. Regardless of their Terms & Conditions. The 'Sale of Good's & Provision of Service's Act 1986' if invoked would tear their T's & C's to shreds, can't change these randomly without the consent of both parties attached to the contract.

irishgeo

agfasfos wrote: »

To be honest I don't think the GAA have a leg to stand on. Regardless of their Terms & Conditions. The 'Sale of Good's & Provision of Service's Act 1986' if invoked would tear their T's & C's to shreds, can't change these randomly without the consent of both parties attached to the contract.

EU contract laws says it's illegal to.

Terms which allow a trader to make changes to the product or service to be provided unilaterally and without a valid reason.

adrian522

The GAA hiding behind these terms and conditions is really disappointing. I would have thought they would have said nothing or said they will reveiw whenver they know when there will be games again or whatever.

However, the GAA has stressed it is within their rights to adjust the small print of the loyalty scheme as they see fit without making holders aware of such changes.

A latter clause reads: “GAA may make changes and update these terms and conditions at any time without further notice to you. It is your sole responsibility to check the terms and conditions periodically, because your continued use of the Season Ticket will mean you accept those changes and updates.”

Contacted by the Irish Examiner, GAA director of communications Alan Milton confirmed: “The clause was added the week ending March 15. Amendments are catered for in the terms and conditions and the ticketing department have liaised with season ticket holders who have made contact with various queries since the games have stopped.”

It seems the GAA is always treating season ticket holders very poorly. To be honest its easy money for them, it gives them a good bit of revenue every year, probably means a lot more people attending league games but from the standard of tickets to the logging of attendance to the constant price increases I'm pretty disappointed with how the GAA treats season ticket holders.

The fact that the GAA already spent the money is largely irrelevant, they really want to take a long look at themselves if that is how they are treating the most loyal of their supporters.

Poor form to say the least.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/gaa-altered-season-ticket-refund-terms-after-coronavirus-outbreak-996535.html

Grats

This won't go away without a legal fight. The GAA should do the right thing - delete that clause, apologise and issue refunds.

PTH2009

Grats wrote: »

This won't go away without a legal fight. The GAA should do the right thing - delete that clause, apologise and issue refunds.

Or have your ticket transfered to the 2021 season

More than likely a good few would be purchasing season tickets next year anyway

Grats

PTH2009 wrote: »

Or have your ticket transfered to the 2021 season

More than likely a good few would be purchasing season tickets next year anyway

Agreed.

adrian522

Yeah, like come out with some sort of PR statement saying people will get €xx off the price of the following seasons ticket or whatever, even if it was just €20 or €30 that sort of gesture would be good.

This terms and conditions messing just comes across like a faceless corporation hiding behind their lawyers.

Grats

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, like come out with some sort of PR statement saying people will get €xx off the price of the following seasons ticket or whatever, even if it was just €20 or €30 that sort of gesture would be good.

This terms and conditions messing just comes across like a faceless corporation hiding behind their lawyers.

Totally agree.

km79

All I was hoping for was a reduction when we renew next season. Now I am annoyed!!!!

mayo.mick

Who the fu@k is running the PR depratment in the gaa, donald trumps brain?

You couldnt make it up. I'd say nearly EVERY season ticket holder wouldn't even think of looking for a refund. If a small reduction for renewals next year, well then that would be excellent PR for the gaa, "we're in this together" and all that.

Actually doctoring the terms & conditions, that's feckin snake oil salesman's tactics :mad:

Original T&C's uploaded to gaa.ie on 9th December last,
https://web.archive.org/web/20191210165254/https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/lb89vf6brhu3fq6n0vib.pdf

Doctored T&C's uploaded on 12th March,
https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/gmiiqgmuu6lqtpaw3ccl.pdf

TCDStudent1

mayo.mick wrote: »

Who the fu@k is running the PR depratment in the gaa, donald trumps brain?

You couldnt make it up. I'd say nearly EVERY season ticket holder wouldn't even think of looking for a refund. If a small reduction for renewals next year, well then that would be excellent PR for the gaa, "we're in this together" and all that.

Actually doctoring the terms & conditions, that's feckin snake oil salesman's tactics :mad:

Original T&C's uploaded to gaa.ie on 9th December last,
https://web.archive.org/web/20191210165254/https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/lb89vf6brhu3fq6n0vib.pdf

Doctored T&C's uploaded on 12th March,
https://www.gaa.ie/api/pdfs/image/upload/gmiiqgmuu6lqtpaw3ccl.pdf

I see that Milton guy is being quoted as the one confirming the change. If I recall correctly, he was also the guy who went on the radio about the Newbridge or Nowhere thing and it all blew up on him.



I didnt have a season ticket this year. However, if I did, I wouldnt expect a refund. I may have expected a discount if I renewed my ticket next year (assuming games in 2020 are done). However, this would annoy me to the point of contacting the ticket office to get clarity.

Deisegodeo

This is simply outrageous that they would add that into the T&C's like that.

I had no interest in a refund until I saw this stunt.

I've always felt like the season tickets are a pain for the GAA but this is really poor on their part.

irishgeo

It's in breach of rule 10 or 11 here on EU law on unfair terms in a contract.

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/unfair-treatment/unfair-contract-terms/index_en.html

Should report them for it.

BonnieSituation

Deisegodeo wrote: »

This is simply outrageous that they would add that into the T&C's like that.

I had no interest in a refund until I saw this stunt.

I've always felt like the season tickets are a pain for the GAA but this is really poor on their part.

They get nigh on 3million quid a year in on them. It's in their interests to play nice.

deise08

Talking about it on pat Kenny on newstalk now.

Laughable from the GAA.

They aren't even paying the people who bring the money in and they still try to keep peoples money.

To make things worse, considering the money is supposed to go back into the game each club is eligible for Government Grant's, charge memberships and fundraise.
Soccer clubs get nothing from the association but manage to make ends meet.

TCDStudent1

deise08 wrote: »

Talking about it on pat Kenny on newstalk now.

Just caught the end of that but sounded like the customer rights guy was saying the GAA dont have a leg to stand on here?

OutTheGap

I'd normally try and defend the GAA when people accuse them of being money grabbers but I can't on this one.

Changing the terms and conditions after the product has been sold is just wrong on so many levels.

I think people would have been sympathetic enough and not looked for a refund originally but I think everybody will be looking for one now after this carry on.

irishgeo

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

Just caught the end of that but sounded like the customer rights guy was saying the GAA dont have a leg to stand on here?

They dont. But the all they need to do it remove the clause that says they can change the contract as they want. The dont have to offer refunds.

namloc1980

Having been a season ticket holder for a decade I won't be signing up again after this. Very poor form and extremely sneaky of them.

Deisegodeo

the more I think about this the more annoyed I get.

it is truly shocking. the voluntary organisation who is trying to rip off their season ticket holders, some of whom are likely to be either sick or in financial trouble due to the crisis.

it is terrible, really does not sit well with me.

Diabhal Beag

Any dealings I've had with the GAA regarding season tickets have rarely given me the impression that they care about genuine supporters. This came as no surprise. The only reason to get them really was to save the stress of potential AI Final tickets and even then they'd make it as difficult as possibly by not counting attendance.

For all Galway STers: Pat Kearney is allegedly on the case for us so expect to never get an update.

km79

Did they really think nobody would spot this ?
That’s what I can’t get over

Grats

I have my email of protest sent to Croke Park.

agfasfos

Very bad form on the part of the GAA. To change the Terms & Conditions, insert the word 'Pandemic' when they realised what was coming down the tracks is sneaky and immoral in my opinion, definitely a PR disaster. I'm more concerned about the health of our citizens rather than the Season Ticket but this sort of carry on is downright wrong.

diceyreilly

They haven’t cancelled the season, yet?

Can’t be talk of refunds till they do.

They would want to brush up on their customer service though. It’s like they are doing us a favour.

celticbest

Interesting....

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/gaa/gaa-has-case-to-answer-over-season-ticket-expert-claims-996600.html

celticbest

namloc1980 wrote: »

Having been a season ticket holder for a decade I won't be signing up again after this. Very poor form and extremely sneaky of them.

That's not an option for Mayo or Dublin season ticket holders are both are sold out and you can just grab one when you want, they have us over a barrel on renewals...

BandMember

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I see that Milton guy is being quoted as the one confirming the change. If I recall correctly, he was also the guy who went on the radio about the Newbridge or Nowhere thing and it all blew up on him.

What else would you expect from a journalist for The S*n? :rolleyes:

For the record, I'm not asking for or expecting a refund but I am very p*ssed off at the G.A.A.'s sneaky tactics here. Another PR mess for them that could easily have been avoided.

irishgeo

Check your emails .The GAA have spoken.

BonnieSituation

GAA wrote:

A Chara,

These are truly exceptional times for all aspects of society along with the GAA and its members.

We are still hopeful of completing the 2020 intercounty and club season over the course of the current year. This will include championship and some of the remaining league fixtures.

If this unfortunately does not prove to be possible due to the ongoing Covid-19 restrictions, we will offer all 2020 Season Ticket holders a discount on their 2021 Season Ticket, or alternatively a partial refund of their 2020 Season Ticket. All refund decisions will be dependent on how the remainder of the 2020 Season can be completed.

With reference to the updated Terms and Conditions applicable to the GAA season ticket, this was seeking to provide greater clarity to the existing terms and conditions for our season ticket holders and not an attempt by the GAA to step back from its obligations in dealing with the matter at hand.

The re-commencement of all GAA fixtures are fully dependant on Government directives and HSE and WHO best practice health advice. Once we have more information available regarding the resumption or otherwise of GAA fixtures we will be in contact with all Season Ticket holders.

Regards,
GAA Ticket Office

Fair enough.

celticbest

GAA 2020 Season Ticket Update

ST Account:

A Chara,

These are truly exceptional times for all aspects of society along with the GAA and its members.

We are still hopeful of completing the 2020 intercounty and club season over the course of the current year. This will include championship and some of the remaining league fixtures.

If this unfortunately does not prove to be possible due to the ongoing Covid-19 restrictions, we will offer all 2020 Season Ticket holders a discount on their 2021 Season Ticket, or alternatively a partial refund of their 2020 Season Ticket. All refund decisions will be dependent on how the remainder of the 2020 Season can be completed.

With reference to the updated Terms and Conditions applicable to the GAA season ticket, this was seeking to provide greater clarity to the existing terms and conditions for our season ticket holders and not an attempt by the GAA to step back from its obligations in dealing with the matter at hand.

The re-commencement of all GAA fixtures are fully dependant on Government directives and HSE and WHO best practice health advice. Once we have more information available regarding the resumption or otherwise of GAA fixtures we will be in contact with all Season Ticket holders.

Regards,
GAA Ticket Office

namloc1980

diceyreilly wrote: »

They haven’t cancelled the season, yet?

Can’t be talk of refunds till they do.

They would want to brush up on their customer service though. It’s like they are doing us a favour.

It's not about refunds, it's about the sneaky way they inserted the "pandemic" clause into the terms and conditions.

They've sent an email now anyway saying if the season is cancelled then they'll offer a partial refund or a discount on a 2021 ticket. Pity they had to be publicly shamed into doing something.

agfasfos

irishgeo wrote: »

Check your emails .The GAA have spoken.

That's some explanation re the updated Terms & Condition's.:eek:


Partial refund or reduction in 2021 Season Ticket.


Better than nothing.

irishgeo

Still doesn't resolve the illegal clause in the terms and conditions.

kaizersoze

celticbest wrote: »

GAA 2020 Season Ticket Update


With reference to the updated Terms and Conditions applicable to the GAA season ticket, this was seeking to provide greater clarity to the existing terms and conditions for our season ticket holders and not an attempt by the GAA to step back from its obligations in dealing with the matter at hand.

Regards,
GAA Ticket Office

Dear Jesus. What a joke of a statement.